Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
two out main and reserve entanglment

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Ron

Jun 4, 2013, 1:01 PM
Post #51 of 57 (604 views)
Shortcut
Re: [toolbox] two out main and reserve entanglment [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
>There is no 100% right answer when dealing with a PC in tow malfunction.
>Frankly, it's the only mal that ever concerns me.....

How about a horseshoe?
How about the rare but not unheard of reserve malfunction?
Those are the two that worry me the most

Horseshoe has a pretty well planned out procedure: Try to clear the main PC quickly if that does not work, cutaway, and pull the reserve. Reserve malfunctions I have ZERO control over. So both have a clear plan of action that is accepted, the PCIT is all gray area.


evan85  (C 41367)

Jun 4, 2013, 4:53 PM
Post #52 of 57 (557 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ron] two out main and reserve entanglment [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron wrote:
Quote:
>There is no 100% right answer when dealing with a PC in tow malfunction.
>Frankly, it's the only mal that ever concerns me.....

How about a horseshoe?
How about the rare but not unheard of reserve malfunction?
Those are the two that worry me the most

Horseshoe has a pretty well planned out procedure: Try to clear the main PC quickly if that does not work, cutaway, and pull the reserve. Reserve malfunctions I have ZERO control over. So both have a clear plan of action that is accepted, the PCIT is all gray area.

Forgive my ignorance, but just wanting to learn:

Why is it that you always cutaway a horseshoe? Are you referring to a horseshoe where the PCIT wraps/is stuck on the body in some way, or a horseshoe where you pack opens but pilot chute stays in the BOC?


Ron

Jun 5, 2013, 9:39 AM
Post #53 of 57 (476 views)
Shortcut
Re: [evan85] two out main and reserve entanglment [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Forgive my ignorance, but just wanting to learn:

Why is it that you always cutaway a horseshoe? Are you referring to a horseshoe where the PCIT wraps/is stuck on the body in some way, or a horseshoe where you pack opens but pilot chute stays in the BOC?

Either. If you have the altitude you first try to clear it by either pulling the PC out of the pocket (seen this one work on a buddy) or by getting the PC off of whatever part it is wrapped on (Done this one, both on me and off an AFF student).

If you can't clear it or are running out of altitude.... You have to do something. In both cases you have a mess of junk that is in a big inverted "U" above your back. It is attached to the main risers and wherever the PC is attached (pouch/arm/leg). Dumping your reserve into this is launching the reserve PC into the mess. You can clean the mess up a bit by cutting the main away and only having one attachment point on your body. Thi has at times cleared the crap totally.

But in any case, you now have only one attachment point and it is not directly above the reserve tray.

Make sense?


toolbox  (D 18778)

Jun 5, 2013, 10:26 AM
Post #54 of 57 (462 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ron] two out main and reserve entanglment [In reply to] Can't Post

The PC in tow is bad news for sure,but I still believe that having a horseshoe is worse.
Just because you have a definite set of procedures for the horseshoe doesn't mean the procedures are going to keep your reserve from being fouled by all the shit that might still be dancing around behind you.
Also,just like with a baglock,the risers may not release when you pull the cutaway because of the lack of drag, among other things that may be happening with the horseshoe.
I've seen videos of deployment bags dancing around and bouncing off reserve containers after the risers have been released on horseshoes as well.
Luckily both the horseshoe and the PC in tow are usually caused from poor gear maintenance and packing mistakes and thus are very preventable.


evan85  (C 41367)

Jun 5, 2013, 10:43 AM
Post #55 of 57 (453 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ron] two out main and reserve entanglment [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron wrote:
Quote:
Forgive my ignorance, but just wanting to learn:

Why is it that you always cutaway a horseshoe? Are you referring to a horseshoe where the PCIT wraps/is stuck on the body in some way, or a horseshoe where you pack opens but pilot chute stays in the BOC?

Either. If you have the altitude you first try to clear it by either pulling the PC out of the pocket (seen this one work on a buddy) or by getting the PC off of whatever part it is wrapped on (Done this one, both on me and off an AFF student).

If you can't clear it or are running out of altitude.... You have to do something. In both cases you have a mess of junk that is in a big inverted "U" above your back. It is attached to the main risers and wherever the PC is attached (pouch/arm/leg). Dumping your reserve into this is launching the reserve PC into the mess. You can clean the mess up a bit by cutting the main away and only having one attachment point on your body. Thi has at times cleared the crap totally.

But in any case, you now have only one attachment point and it is not directly above the reserve tray.

Make sense?

Thanks Ron, that does make sense, and explains why cutting away this is correct for a horseshoe but not necessarily for a PCIT.


Ron

Jun 5, 2013, 10:52 AM
Post #56 of 57 (443 views)
Shortcut
Re: [toolbox] two out main and reserve entanglment [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The PC in tow is bad news for sure,but I still believe that having a horseshoe is worse.
Just because you have a definite set of procedures for the horseshoe doesn't mean the procedures are going to keep your reserve from being fouled by all the shit that might still be dancing around behind you.

Please read my original post again. You missed a vital piece of information. Here it is again:

"There is no 100% right answer when dealing with a PC in tow malfunction. People have lived, and people have died using both methods. Frankly, it is the only MAL that ever concerns me.... You can do "A" and die, you can do "B" and die. "

1. It is the only mal that has a 50/50 split on how to handle it and BOTH camps have valid reasons.

2. It was clearly stated "concerns ME", and I gave my reasons.

YOU are free to worry about whatever malfunction you want. For ME it is the one that has no 100% approved course of action and BOTH have saved and killed equally.


airbornesoon

Jun 13, 2013, 9:12 AM
Post #57 of 57 (290 views)
Shortcut
Re: two out main and reserve entanglment [In reply to] Can't Post

this has been a good read for me. thanks everyone.. i think its time to get back in the air again. enough of letting my brain think to much lol


First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Incidents

 


Search for (options)