Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia

 

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airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 26, 2013, 7:46 PM
Post #26 of 41 (2119 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
In reply to:
Yea I was just going to post that if any of you don't want to watch someone go in on their own cam, don't watch that vid.

The warning is much appreciated Dan, on the other hand perhaps it should be "required viewing"?
Unsure

Well, there's no blood and you don't see anything but the hands holding onto the risers and then WHACK and the video cuts away to the commentators immediately. But the ground rush, whoa!

BTW, the camera was still running right after impact.

A little later on there is video of the deceased in the snow next to the canopy, a bit harsh maybe but perhaps it can serve as a wake-up call to others so inclined toward such foolish carelessness.

Sometimes you get lucky - sometimes not, but when you don't ~ it's over ...forever...just THAT quick.


Mac  (C 101464)

Mar 27, 2013, 2:45 AM
Post #27 of 41 (2016 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Low pulls on skydiving gear is asking for the reaper to come breath down your neck and flip and coin to bet against the variables.

However, this wasnt just a low pull that the coin landed against the participant and caused a variable that requires some room for error, from the video, visually at least, they went past the point of no return.

Thoughts to family and friends.... this sucks.


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
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Mar 27, 2013, 4:49 AM
Post #28 of 41 (1956 views)
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Re: [mik] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

When you are low, a reserve deployment may be a better option.


Mac  (C 101464)

Mar 27, 2013, 5:23 AM
Post #29 of 41 (1917 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When you are low, a reserve deployment may be a better option.

Unfortunately (and stupidly), many many years ago, I found myself in a low deployment situation (<1000ft @ terminal), and my automatic reaction was to deploy my main. I put this down to being the repeated process over many jumps to save your life, by deploying your main, becomes the auto-response to wanting something out above your head. Reserve drills are dialled in for malfunctions, but seeing the ground at that altitude, my automatic instinct was to dump out my main as quickly as possible. I ended up with my cypres firing at the same time as I deployed, without any issues, thankfully.

So although its probably the better option, I am sure that most peoples auto-reaction would be to deploy the main as normal.


(This post was edited by Mac on Mar 27, 2013, 5:32 AM)


wmw999  (D 6296)

Mar 27, 2013, 5:33 AM
Post #30 of 41 (1901 views)
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Re: [Mac] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

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So although its probably the better option, I am sure that most peoples auto-reaction would be to deploy the main as normal.
You're not the only one

Wendy P.


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Mar 27, 2013, 5:44 AM
Post #31 of 41 (1890 views)
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Re: [Mac] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

This is why my practice for emergency procedures includes going straight for the reserve. While I hope I never put myself in a low situation like that I know I am not immune to mistakes. It is also helpful for tandem scenarios where we might be approaching tandem terminal speeds quickly or have possible drogue entanglement issues. People need to think about emergency procedures more than they typically do. The three handles are not necessarily pulled in order for EVERY given circumstance even on a sport rig. The response has to be conditioned. You have no time to think under a grand, you have to react immediately and appropriately. If you don't condition your response then you will just go for the main, because it is what you are conditioned to do.

Just curious if you did any practicing for going straight to reserve before your incident you described? If not do you do so now?

Going silver might have saved this guys life.


(This post was edited by billvon on Mar 27, 2013, 1:58 PM)


Mac  (C 101464)

Mar 27, 2013, 6:13 AM
Post #32 of 41 (1851 views)
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Re: [EFS4LIFE] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

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Just curious if you did any practicing for going straight to reserve before your incident you described? If not do you do so now?

Going silver might have saved this guys life.

From memory, at the time of the incident I had around 250/300 jumps (no reserves), I hardly practiced reserve drills (I was in the bomb proof stage) never mind other scenarios.

Certainly now (not because of that incident but because of getting more respect as the years roll on), I do go through alot of "what ifs", and this includes the muscle memory and mindset for pulling reserve without main deployment.


(This post was edited by Mac on Mar 27, 2013, 6:15 AM)


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
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Mar 27, 2013, 6:46 AM
Post #33 of 41 (1829 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
So although its probably the better option, I am sure that most peoples auto-reaction would be to deploy the main as normal.
You're not the only one

Wendy P.

The difference being these guys were planning to intentionally go low. If one was planning to do that, one might want to prepare differently. Maybe they did, but still acted instinctively. We'll never know. We'll also never know if their reasoning behind switching off the AADs was to avoid a dual canopy situation or to save the price of a cutter. I'm assuming they were modern, electronic AADs rather than something like a KAP.


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 27, 2013, 9:47 AM
Post #34 of 41 (1686 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
Here is the video, if you wish Unsure
http://www.youtube.com/...ed&v=bknZIkT3iTw

Geez... Leave it to the Russians to actually show video of the impact.... Pirate

On the other hand if it brings home the reality of what we do to some of the "bulletproof/deny reality" generation......


mik  (D 11111)

Mar 27, 2013, 10:23 AM
Post #35 of 41 (1645 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
So although its probably the better option, I am sure that most peoples auto-reaction would be to deploy the main as normal.
You're not the only one

Wendy P.

The difference being these guys were planning to intentionally go low. If one was planning to do that, one might want to prepare differently. Maybe they did, but still acted instinctively. We'll never know. We'll also never know if their reasoning behind switching off the AADs was to avoid a dual canopy situation or to save the price of a cutter. I'm assuming they were modern, electronic AADs rather than something like a KAP.

Cypres 2 AAD per the news report containing the video, so your assumption is correct.

Also, if my Russian is correct, there is a comment in the video that they intended to open their parachutes 7 seconds before the end of the freefall (I assume at about 1500 feet). Clearly, not a great deal of room for error!!


(This post was edited by mik on Mar 27, 2013, 12:30 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Mar 27, 2013, 1:58 PM
Post #36 of 41 (1477 views)
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Re: [EFS4LIFE] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

>This is why my practice for emergency procedures includes going straight
>for the reserve. While I hope I never put myself in a low situation like that

>If you don't condition your response then you will just go for the main,
>because it is what you are conditioned to do.

This is a good thing to practice; however, I have never, ever seen a situation where a jumper instinctively went to a reserve over a main when he was low. This includes a case where:

1) the jumper was a current AFF-I
2) he was aware he might go low
3) he was asked what he would do and he said "I would pull my reserve" (and then pantomimed pulling his reserve on the ground)
4) he was aware of his exit altitude which was lower than planned
5) he was aware in freefall that he was very low

After all that he was unable to pull his reserve; he opened his main out of habit.

Thus while this is a good thing to practice it is not a good thing to rely on being able to do, and thus practice for dealing with two-out situations (for those with AAD's) or reasonably fast opening mains (for those without) are very good ideas.


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Mar 27, 2013, 2:18 PM
Post #37 of 41 (1457 views)
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Re: [billvon] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Point taken Bill.

However I have seen it the other way too.

Couch Freaks 2 or 3 years ago a jumper was knocked unconscious, came to and pulled silver. He was LOW LOW. Had a round reserve too. Landed in the corn. It happen just above the landing area directly in front of my tent. He was jumping the next day I believe.

I try to practice for all situations, including two out as you mentioned.

Will I be able to execute correctly? I hope so. My life could depend on it.


(This post was edited by EFS4LIFE on Mar 27, 2013, 3:51 PM)










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