Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13

 

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FB1609  (C 1409)

Apr 30, 2013, 3:57 PM
Post #376 of 400 (7158 views)
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Re: [evan85] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Well to me it still seems like a design flaw, Improper closing loops can be easily overlooked


loudtom  (D 23115)

Apr 30, 2013, 5:29 PM
Post #377 of 400 (7102 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

I am pretty sure Chris was taking a shot at the bigger picture of reserve pc hesitation and freebag trapping that has been a big part of this discussion and not trying to bring into specific relief anything in this incident specifically. I have not been around all that long, only the last 15 years and I appreciate the attention this problem is getting now and I plan on being pro-active and discussing with my rigger the issues raised in this thread. And reviewing my AFF procedures...
yo


wetrock

Apr 30, 2013, 7:18 PM
Post #378 of 400 (7044 views)
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Re: [evan85] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYIUjKGxagI

http://www.ssyoutube.com/watch?v=HYIUjKGxagI

down loading made simple just add ss to YouTube and download files will magically a peer


(This post was edited by wetrock on Apr 30, 2013, 7:20 PM)


airsport  (D 12544)

May 1, 2013, 6:00 AM
Post #379 of 400 (6905 views)
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Re: [jonstark] Missing jumpers. Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

I tell every student on a CAT C and beyond that "its not my job to save your life!" "We will be releasing you and it is your responsibility to open your parachute. If you don't like what is happening or feel out of control, wave and deploy a parachute..."

"Do you understand?"

I always get a yes.

If they opened their containers on the last 2 jumps. They shouldn't have a problem on the rest of them. Making them aware they are clearly responsible for their survival keeps any ambiguity or second guessing getting in the way....

My gopro will have a 2000' view of the AAD opening a reserve...

Don't get me wrong, I will be all over helping get a canopy out for the student. But he will see me deploy mine if I'm unable to succeed.


ChrisD  (No License)

May 1, 2013, 11:07 AM
Post #380 of 400 (6768 views)
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Re: [loudtom] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am pretty sure Chris was taking a shot at the bigger picture of reserve pc hesitation and freebag trapping that has been a big part of this discussion and not trying to bring into specific relief anything in this incident specifically. I have not been around all that long, only the last 15 years and I appreciate the attention this problem is getting now and I plan on being pro-active and discussing with my rigger the issues raised in this thread. And reviewing my AFF procedures...
yo

Thank You, Thank You! Wink
C


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

May 8, 2013, 12:45 PM
Post #381 of 400 (6302 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Cypres fire, reserve not open in time... Snivelly Optimum opening, or container restriction?:

http://www.youtube.com/...ed&v=m1TMqJLk4U8

http://www.deepseed.com/...o-pull-cypres-save-0


pchapman  (D 1014)

May 8, 2013, 1:21 PM
Post #382 of 400 (6274 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

skydiverek wrote:
Cypres fire, reserve not open in time... Snivelly Optimum opening, or container restriction?:

Looks like we now have a thread for that incident too:

http://www.dropzone.com/...um.cgi?post=4483098;


GeorgiaDon  (A 35958)

May 8, 2013, 1:39 PM
Post #383 of 400 (6251 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Cypres fire, reserve not open in time... Snivelly Optimum opening, or container restriction?:
Well, he says he cut away at 800 ft. It seems to me it'll take some altitude to accelerate to activation speed for an expert Cypres, depending on the speed of his dive when he cut away. at any rate, he'd be way down in the basement when the Cypres fired. I don't know that either a snivelly opening or a container restriction were necessarily a factor here, it seems to me he spent too long trying to get the second brake released and got sucked down very low before cutting away.

My understanding is that AADs aren't designed for low cutaway type situations. An RSL might have been more useful in this particular situation, but RSLs have their own issues for camera fliers or so I've heard.

Scary video for sure. Talk about ground rush! I'm glad he made it, a millisecond later on the Cypres fire and he wouldn't have been able to provide such an informative analysis of what went wrong.

Don


(This post was edited by GeorgiaDon on May 8, 2013, 1:49 PM)


p.w.stockwell  (D 8496)

May 26, 2013, 4:03 PM
Post #384 of 400 (5614 views)
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Re: [loudtom] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm very glad a number of very experienced people many with thousands of jumps and decades in the sport are now considering the performance issues surrounding equipment that this incident has raised.

The only thing left in this thread now is what about the official investigation. It has been weeks why has there not been at least confirmation of an official investigation, who is doing the investigation and what is the expected time to produce a report?

Or is the incident just going to be allowed to end with nothing more than speculation?


normiss  (D 28356)

May 26, 2013, 6:54 PM
Post #385 of 400 (5484 views)
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Re: [p.w.stockwell] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Given one of this weekend's incidents is reminding me of this one.
Mad

Why the hell did I just buy a new AAD?
Unsure




Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 26, 2013, 10:13 PM
Post #387 of 400 (5339 views)
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Re: [normiss] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

>Why the hell did I just buy a new AAD?

In case you forget to pull; that's the most common reason for AAD saves. AADs will, in general, do nothing for a low cutaway.


nigel99  (D 1)

May 27, 2013, 1:35 AM
Post #388 of 400 (5240 views)
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Re: [billvon] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

billvon wrote:
>Why the hell did I just buy a new AAD?

In case you forget to pull; that's the most common reason for AAD saves. AADs will, in general, do nothing for a low cutaway.

Sadly, it has come down to that is pretty much all an AAD is good for. Even if you get knocked out, so many people have highly loaded reserves so they will likely suffer severe trauma landing unconscious under their reserve.


normiss  (D 28356)

May 27, 2013, 6:22 AM
Post #389 of 400 (5128 views)
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Re: [normiss] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

The AAD's on all three individuals DID fire.
Maybe we need to bump up the altitudes.
Deployment as well as firing.


p.w.stockwell  (D 8496)

May 29, 2013, 5:19 AM
Post #390 of 400 (4747 views)
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Re: [normiss] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

normiss wrote:
The AAD's on all three individuals DID fire.
Maybe we need to bump up the altitudes.
Deployment as well as firing.
I totally agree with you but these comments are now really going round in circles and have been said and explained before in this thread. I know 16 pages is a lot to read but it really is all there except!! What about the official investigation and its conclusions ???????


DcloudZ  (B 37320)

May 29, 2013, 7:15 AM
Post #391 of 400 (4663 views)
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Re: [p.w.stockwell] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever find closure on this incident...Unsure


BMFin

May 29, 2013, 11:50 PM
Post #392 of 400 (4411 views)
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Re: [p.w.stockwell] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

p.w.stockwell wrote:
What about the official investigation and its conclusions ???????

Dont you remember? The local sheriff already did the official investigation and declared the instructor a hero.


normiss  (D 28356)

May 30, 2013, 6:54 AM
Post #393 of 400 (4179 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sadly, I think this is the final answer other than the AAD data.


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

May 30, 2013, 7:24 AM
Post #394 of 400 (4163 views)
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Re: [normiss] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

As it stands now there will not be any AAD data.

Cliff Smucker, RIP, sent me an e-mail with this statement:
Quote:
"we can not get our hands on the AADs, now the Icelandic Gov't is involved and in charge of the gear".

This was back in April and it looks like it isn't going anywhere.

I sent a request to Randy Ottinger (USPA Government Relations Director) to ask the FAA for help, but no reply.


normiss  (D 28356)

May 30, 2013, 7:31 AM
Post #395 of 400 (4151 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sheesh.

Thanks John.


BMFin

May 31, 2013, 2:58 AM
Post #396 of 400 (3913 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Double Fatality - Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnSherman wrote:
As it stands now there will not be any AAD data.

Cliff Smucker, RIP, sent me an e-mail with this statement:
Quote:
"we can not get our hands on the AADs, now the Icelandic Gov't is involved and in charge of the gear".

This was back in April and it looks like it isn't going anywhere.

I sent a request to Randy Ottinger (USPA Government Relations Director) to ask the FAA for help, but no reply.

Have the Icelandic people said they wont examine the data?


katzas

Jun 17, 2013, 1:10 AM
Post #397 of 400 (3445 views)
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Re: [potatoman] Missing jumpers. Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Z-Hills is as flat as it gets. A three hundred foot difference ASL from LZ to where they went in is impossible there. Good thinking --but not a solution in this case.


BigMark  (D 17505)

Aug 5, 2013, 2:04 PM
Post #398 of 400 (2868 views)
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Re: [katzas] Missing jumpers. Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

A skydiving instructor died trying to save his student as they both plunged to Earth, according to Pasco County Sheriff's detective William Lindsey. Both men were killed in the fall, which happened during an instructional jump on Saturday.
Video from skydive instructor Orvar Arnarsonĺs helmet camera shows him trying to activate the parachute of 25-year-old Andrimar Pordarson. Police said they have no way of knowing what happened that caused Pordarsonĺs inability to deploy his own parachute, according to ABC News. The automatic backup chutes did not inflate in time.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/skydiving-instructor-dies-save-student-free-fall-article-1.1300876#ixzz2b86AKNbr


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Aug 5, 2013, 6:36 PM
Post #399 of 400 (2622 views)
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Re: [BigMark] Missing jumpers. Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

This is an old news story with no new information.


Neoslim22  (D 69)

May 20, 2014, 4:18 PM
Post #400 of 400 (1450 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Missing jumpers. Zhills 3-23-13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Any news?


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