Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight

 

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nigel99  (D 1)

Feb 13, 2013, 3:12 AM
Post #51 of 114 (2572 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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Let me see if I have a proper understanding of this event. This guy jumps out, has a premature opening at 13000, ...
IIRC he has around 10 seconds of freefall before the premature opening. What is the normal jumping altitude over there ? Smile

14k which is fairly normal would give you about 10 seconds of freefall to 13k...


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Feb 13, 2013, 7:44 PM
Post #52 of 114 (2311 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
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Let me see if I have a proper understanding of this event. This guy jumps out, has a premature opening at 13000, ...
IIRC he has around 10 seconds of freefall before the premature opening. What is the normal jumping altitude over there ? Smile

14k which is fairly normal would give you about 10 seconds of freefall to 13k...

normal altis are 15 and 18 at SMB


nigel99  (D 1)

Feb 13, 2013, 8:25 PM
Post #53 of 114 (2288 views)
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Re: [jtiflyer] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Let me see if I have a proper understanding of this event. This guy jumps out, has a premature opening at 13000, ...
IIRC he has around 10 seconds of freefall before the premature opening. What is the normal jumping altitude over there ? Smile

14k which is fairly normal would give you about 10 seconds of freefall to 13k...

normal altis are 15 and 18 at SMB

Sorry I realised my post was misleading. What I mean't is that the 'industry norm' of 14k gives about 10 seconds to 13k.

If they do 15-18k, I wonder if hypoxia could be part of the reason he initially blacked out?


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Feb 13, 2013, 10:02 PM
Post #54 of 114 (2239 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Let me see if I have a proper understanding of this event. This guy jumps out, has a premature opening at 13000, ...
IIRC he has around 10 seconds of freefall before the premature opening. What is the normal jumping altitude over there ? Smile

14k which is fairly normal would give you about 10 seconds of freefall to 13k...

normal altis are 15 and 18 at SMB

Sorry I realised my post was misleading. What I mean't is that the 'industry norm' of 14k gives about 10 seconds to 13k.

If they do 15-18k, I wonder if hypoxia could be part of the reason he initially blacked out?

not likely. its only 6 minutes to 15 and around 9 to 18


parachutist  (D 25468)

Feb 13, 2013, 10:11 PM
Post #55 of 114 (2237 views)
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Re: [jtiflyer] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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If they do 15-18k, I wonder if hypoxia could be part of the reason he initially blacked out?

not likely. its only 6 minutes to 15 and around 9 to 18

It makes a bit of sense. He's chatting and "woop"ing from the time he turns the camera on, til about 1:00... where he's apparently hyperventilating (not good in thin air). Then he's yelling loud enough to hear it in freefall, then talking loud after the canopy opens. Basically he's putting a lot of thin air into his system. Since he has only 30 jumps in 2 years, he's not very acclimated to altitudes (unless he's been travelling and mountain hiking). I'm sure his heart is pumping fast because he's excited/scared. Doesn't look like he's been doing much aerobic exercise. I think Nigel hit it on the head.

Chris


jf951  (D License)

Feb 14, 2013, 2:10 AM
Post #56 of 114 (2179 views)
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Re: [parachutist] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

perfect opportunity to use the new inline photo attachments



WTF this idiots talking into the camera like hes on Lettermen while he thinks hes having a malfunction!
i'd put money that the thread after this one is going to be a 36 jump wonder telling us a camera isnt a distraction at all.
Attachments: WTF-Picard-meme.jpg (41.5 KB)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 14, 2013, 3:00 AM
Post #57 of 114 (2164 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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What do you mean? I'm surprised to see so many jumpers not believing a uncontrolled canopy can or would hit the dz LZ.

Sorry it can happen I've seen it a number of times, the last one I was on radio and the dude died in FF check in and then he really checked out the way down... canopy opened @ 5K and drifted in circles and landed pretty much on the dz, only dead as dead can be, not one control input and the toggles still stowed. So nothing all that surprising about it.

Now THAT is spotting!


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Feb 14, 2013, 6:10 AM
Post #58 of 114 (2119 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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Would the USA ever allow the USPA to actually govern the sport, by making rules instead of guidelines?

USPA does have "rules", called Basic Safety REQUIREMENTS". However USPA is not a government agency and can't make rules enforceable by any entity other than itself. In other words, skydiving in the US is mainly self-regulated and that system has worked very well.

The last thing we need is government regulations created by people who don't understand the first thing about parachutes or staying alive while using them.


wayneflorida  (D 30566)

Feb 14, 2013, 8:29 AM
Post #59 of 114 (2053 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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What do you mean? I'm surprised to see so many jumpers not believing a uncontrolled canopy can or would hit the dz LZ.

Sorry it can happen I've seen it a number of times, the last one I was on radio and the dude died in FF check in and then he really checked out the way down... canopy opened @ 5K and drifted in circles and landed pretty much on the dz, only dead as dead can be, not one control input and the toggles still stowed. So nothing all that surprising about it.

Now THAT is spotting!

Nah, just a rare canopy called The Homing Canopy.


bp-dtmr

Feb 14, 2013, 9:51 AM
Post #60 of 114 (1996 views)
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Re: [wayneflorida] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

30 jumps in two years is not a lot of currency.
Frankly, he should have cut away from a clear malfunction.
The full raw video can be found at:
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/...g-of-skydive-mishap/

Epic fail of an amateur skydiver more concerned with his video than dealing with the real situation.


(This post was edited by bp-dtmr on Feb 14, 2013, 10:02 AM)


bp-dtmr

Feb 14, 2013, 10:24 AM
Post #61 of 114 (1979 views)
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Re: [bp-dtmr] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

If you observe the mal at 2:53 with the slider locked up on the left side and it's further observed that he's pulling down hard on the right toggle to stop the spin to the left to no avail and passes out.
Attachments: images.jpg (7.57 KB)


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Feb 14, 2013, 10:48 AM
Post #62 of 114 (1958 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In other words, skydiving in the US is mainly self-regulated and that system has worked very well.

Really? Yes it's been self regulated but it doesn't really work all that well at a lot of dz's.


(This post was edited by Mr_Polite on Feb 14, 2013, 10:49 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 14, 2013, 11:33 AM
Post #63 of 114 (1936 views)
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Re: [Mr_Polite] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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In other words, skydiving in the US is mainly self-regulated and that system has worked very well.

Really? Yes it's been self regulated but it doesn't really work all that well at a lot of dz's.

You may make think not...but it's actually pretty good now - ya should have been here 25 years ago! CrazyWink


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Feb 14, 2013, 2:32 PM
Post #64 of 114 (1872 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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You may make think not...but it's actually pretty good now - ya should have been here 25 years ago! CrazyWink
Twenty-five years ago? That's when some DZ's student gear was only 5 years old. There's some real garage sale gutter gear floating around as rentals at some DZ's. My son described some rental gear at an unnamed DZ to me and I told him not to jump there anymore. Unimpressed


(This post was edited by JohnMitchell on Feb 14, 2013, 2:32 PM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Feb 14, 2013, 6:09 PM
Post #65 of 114 (1811 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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You may make think not...but it's actually pretty good now - ya should have been here 25 years ago! CrazyWink

35 years ago, we were jumpen shit the military didn't want anymore. Duh! Wink
Rental gear (or any gear for that matter) doesn't have to be new. It'd be nice if it was airworthy though?


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 14, 2013, 6:47 PM
Post #66 of 114 (1787 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

 ...doesn't have to be new. It'd be nice if it was airworthy though?

Picky Picky Picky! CrazyTongue


ChrisD  (No License)

Feb 15, 2013, 7:20 AM
Post #67 of 114 (1641 views)
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Re: [airdvr] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a645Wx_ymsA

Flores, according to the utube vids' that he has now removed started in 2010.

The DZ is at this point not answereing their phone, or perhaps better said not answereing any questions about this liar and deceptive individual!

I want to remind everyone that he intentionally lied and decived everyone there in CA. I find it hard to understand the many comments regarding the DZ has responsibility for this lier's decitful actions!


Krip  (Student)

Feb 15, 2013, 9:07 AM
Post #68 of 114 (1593 views)
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Re: [airdvr] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

Reminds me of the slip and fall people in the grocery store.

Then they roll the video and the scam artist is using a squirt bottle to lube the tile. To slip on. "Clean up on aisle 6"Sly

I almost felt sorry for the dude when he was being interviewed for the news clip in a outdoor cafe. The look on the dudes face was priceless as he retold his story.

Do they have a lot of wanna be actors in the bay area?


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Feb 15, 2013, 9:34 AM
Post #69 of 114 (1569 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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I want to remind everyone that he intentionally lied and decived everyone there in CA. I find it hard to understand the many comments regarding the DZ has responsibility for this lier's decitful actions!

Chris, I do not know the whole story! But, what you, me, DZO's, and every skydiver boarding an aircraft need to realize is this...
This shit is ending up on video! If there is anything that would appear to have the ability to draw negative attention to you, it will!


This is the lesson to be learned here. As I said up thread, dot your I's and cross your T's.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 15, 2013, 1:00 PM
Post #70 of 114 (1493 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
I want to remind everyone that he intentionally lied and decived everyone there in CA. I find it hard to understand the many comments regarding the DZ has responsibility for this lier's decitful actions!

Chris, I do not know the whole story! But, what you, me, DZO's, and every skydiver boarding an aircraft need to realize is this...
This shit is ending up on video! If there is anything that would appear to have the ability to draw negative attention to you, it will!


This is the lesson to be learned here. As I said up thread, dot your I's and cross your T's.

...........................................................................

You are pointing towards a scary, slippery slope ... no more jokes onboard the airplane ... manifest ... no wait a minute: the DZ's senior-most rigger rigidly inspecting every visiting rig and grounding many long before the FAA (or manufacturers) ... etc.
No linked exits ...
Ending in "fun-jumping" being banished from tandem-factories ... errrr ... DZs.
Scary!


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Feb 15, 2013, 1:13 PM
Post #71 of 114 (1482 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

i think the experienced jumpers should have made sure that the video never got recorded Wink in actuality though, there are some horrifying videos that make it onto the internet that should have just been deleted upon landing.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Feb 15, 2013, 1:20 PM
Post #72 of 114 (1475 views)
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Re: [waveoff5500] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

True; but a video that highlights the douchebagness of the taker is kind of just payment. It should not highlight other problems, which can then detract from the douchebag statement.

And gear that a novice (or anyone else, really) rents should be more like a test designed to pass, rather than a test designed to fail. Just like aircraft should be well enough maintained that, while jumpers can question the DZO, they don't have to.

When you say "this rig is not intended for any specific use" you shouldn't really mean it Unimpressed

Wendy P.


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Feb 15, 2013, 1:33 PM
Post #73 of 114 (1463 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

i agree its awesome for us to see him being a dbag blow up in his face, but for the image of the sport in the FAA/publics eyes its not in our best interests.

i also agree that any gear that is for use by others should be maintained, but in this type of sport i feel the ultimate responsibility for personal safety lies with the end user (douchebag in this case). its similiar to if you only use packers and then complain about a malfunction you had.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Feb 15, 2013, 1:53 PM
Post #74 of 114 (1444 views)
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Re: [waveoff5500] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

The ultimate responsibility is the jumper's, and yes, a novice is still a licensed jumper. When you were 16, how much did you know about your car, or did your parents maintain it for you?

I'd prefer to see more encouraging of jumpers, particularly younger ones, to question things. But right now it slows things down, and lots of operations (including the other jumpers on the load who want the aircraft to take off) don't encourage it for real stuff. As a learning thing, absolutely, but not when you've picked up the rental rig and are heading to the airplane.

Wendy P.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 15, 2013, 8:20 PM
Post #75 of 114 (1372 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Skydiver’s Near-Death Experience Points To Lax Industry Oversight [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I want to remind everyone that he intentionally lied and decived everyone there in CA. I find it hard to understand the many comments regarding the DZ has responsibility for this lier's decitful actions!

Chris, I do not know the whole story! But, what you, me, DZO's, and every skydiver boarding an aircraft need to realize is this...
This shit is ending up on video! If there is anything that would appear to have the ability to draw negative attention to you, it will!


This is the lesson to be learned here. As I said up thread, dot your I's and cross your T's.

We figured that one out 25+ years ago as far as performing demonstration jumps...don't do anything you wouldn't want shown on the 6 o'clock news.

Almost 'EVERYTHING' is on a video somewhere when doing demos, and ya REALLY gotta watch those long lens guys - I got asked about a pic of me, head out the door of a '3 just after rotation...yes there was a seat-belt on the floor, it WAS through my keg-strap.

Be aware - you ARE on candid camera! Sly


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