Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
peregrine video

 

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virgin-burner

Feb 14, 2013, 3:50 PM
Post #126 of 156 (3998 views)
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Re: [DocPop] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Rhys aka "swoopin"

I think that does explain a lot.

you should know how that works, or, did you forget already!?


craigbey  (C 31991)

Feb 14, 2013, 6:04 PM
Post #127 of 156 (3959 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

DocPop probably isn't wearing a tin foil hat and he posted information in this thread specifically regarding the Peregrine canopy.

Do you have any fresh insights into the evolution and design of this canopy or how it flies?

Considering how long the Velocity has been at the front of the PD product line for high performance canopies, this new wing is rather special. It appears to be a very different canopy and it has captured the interest of many pilots. We may not earn a chance to fly it, but we're still very curious.


(This post was edited by craigbey on Feb 14, 2013, 6:22 PM)


d123  (B 6134)

Feb 15, 2013, 4:48 PM
Post #128 of 156 (3793 views)
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Re: [matt002] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In sport skydiving there is a "potential" huge demand for high-end products (peregrine and petra are high-end) but within that "potential" market there are only *few* ready to be consumers for high-end products. The others are wannabe. Given the level of skills demanded by the high-end and the severity of the consequences when that demand is not meet, making the high-end open to the entire "potential" market is un-wise. Injuries, death will create law-suits and will affect PD image/brand.

In military skydiving there's no market for high-end.

In other words the high-end market it's very very small. I don't know what would it be their break even point for the investment but they will not reach it.

PD doesn't make money with their new high-end product. Their drive for peregrine could be passion, ego or something else.


If it's passion or ego they wouldn't copy the other business competitors.

But I do understand what you mean.


(This post was edited by d123 on Feb 15, 2013, 4:52 PM)


Premier Remster  (C License)

Feb 15, 2013, 6:06 PM
Post #129 of 156 (3765 views)
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Re: [d123] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Their drive for peregrine could be passion, ego or something else.

Something else? It's pretty clear really. It's a great marketing too for all the wannabe swoopers to have Team PD win the meets with the top of the line Perigrine, or Scalpel, or whatever their new ones will be.

And that makes perfect sense to me. Smile (And, I'm also sure they are passionate about it, but the driver IMO is pretty clear)


matt002

Feb 16, 2013, 7:03 AM
Post #130 of 156 (3672 views)
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Re: [d123] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In other words the high-end market it's very very small. I don't know what would it be their break even point for the investment but they will not reach it.

PD doesn't make money with their new high-end product. Their drive for peregrine could be passion, ego or something else.

I can remember the first time i ever saw 'real' swooping.
It was a video of the Empuriabrava Kings of Swoop 2006.
I was pretty new to skydiving and watching Jay and Jonathon fighting for first place was inspirational, I decided straight away that I would dedicate the rest of my skydiving to learning the discipline of canopy piloting in the hopes of one day being able to compete in a competition like that.

Jay and Johnathon were flying the PD velocity at the time, so naturally, I decided that I would follow suit with progression through the PD product range, like many others did.

My first new canopy as a result was a PD sabre 2, I also went on to purchase 1 katana, 1 velocity and 2 comp velos from new, also bought perhaps 3 second hand sabre 2s, 1 katana and another standard velo during progressive down sizes. When I started wing suiting I bought a PD spectre 120.
edited to add 2 PD reserves and 1 PD optimum reserve.


You are right, PD will not make any money selling the Perigrine to the skydiving public, thats not the point.

They do however, need to ensure that the guys on the podium are flying PD canopies, selecting who can fly the most advantageous wing will help in doing this.

PD make great products, have great customer service and the factory team have driven the standard in Canopy Piloting to where it currently is.

They are however, a business. Not a charitable foundation set up so save skydivers from themselves as some people seem to think.

There was no rush of 'wanna be' pilots going in when the comp velo was released, the only people who I ever saw fly then were competitive canopy pilots.

I guess PD have a better strategy this time round.


(This post was edited by matt002 on Feb 16, 2013, 7:10 AM)


d123  (B 6134)

Feb 16, 2013, 8:51 AM
Post #131 of 156 (3635 views)
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Re: [matt002] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

I totally agree with you guys.

From where I'm standing I'm thinking that if one of the brands focus on mass transition of the wannabe to high end consumers, in the long run they could win the brand war and make more money from high-end.

In other words reduce the education cost (compared with what's currently available) to increase the high-end market and then increase the high-end price Smile.

I would love to be a part of a project like that.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Feb 16, 2013, 9:05 PM
Post #132 of 156 (3520 views)
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Re: [matt002] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well that sounds quite different to impression I got reading this
http://www.performancedesigns.com/peregrine_info.asp

Wow! PD sounds a little full of themselves here. They should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass.

I dont know what the rules are with what canopy you can use in comps. Im thinking that its for sale for that reason but they pick who to sell too. I dont have a problem with that at all. I mean one of reasons to get on a team is to have more of a edge right? (support,gear ect)

I love my velo and thinking of stepping up to a comp.

As far as copying, of course companies copy products. It happens in every market. Why should PD be any different. They are just keeping up with times. Looks like they are doing a good job of it too.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Feb 17, 2013, 7:22 AM
Post #133 of 156 (3451 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
They should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass.

Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team.


wildcard451  (D License)

Feb 17, 2013, 11:31 AM
Post #134 of 156 (3405 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
They should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass.

Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team.

And I just ordered two 55's yesterday so we know that isn't true.


GobbleGobble  (D 32887)

Feb 17, 2013, 12:28 PM
Post #135 of 156 (3393 views)
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Re: [wildcard451] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
They should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass.

Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team.

And I just ordered two 55's yesterday so we know that isn't true.

Jebus.


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 17, 2013, 6:06 PM
Post #136 of 156 (3332 views)
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Re: [wildcard451] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
They should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass.

Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team.

And I just ordered two 55's yesterday so we know that isn't true.

Are you going to sew them together to make one canopy that you would load at 4:1?

Laugh


IMGR2  (D 21089)

Feb 17, 2013, 8:24 PM
Post #137 of 156 (3302 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

They didn't even ask my experience with HP canopies.
I was told they were not for sale to the general public.

I'm not the best HP canopy pilot but I have flown my fair share of canopies.


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 17, 2013, 8:30 PM
Post #138 of 156 (3298 views)
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Re: [IMGR2] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
They didn't even ask my experience with HP canopies.

They didn't ask me either, but I still think it's neat.Smile


IMGR2  (D 21089)

Feb 17, 2013, 8:38 PM
Post #139 of 156 (3295 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Hell, I think its awesome.

But why do people say its for sale when its not.

Thats a blatant lie where I'm from.

BTW, I still have all those plastic canopies that I used to fly at SDH. And they are still in great shape. I'm still waiting for someone to make a production canopy out of this material. I recall actually placing at a swoop meet with one.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Feb 18, 2013, 10:26 PM
Post #140 of 156 (3083 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
They should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass.

Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team.

Just thinking out loud here. Who outside the team is it available too? A hand full of people? I can care less to be honest. I am having hard enough time wanting to get the scratch together for a comp velo. I am deff not paying 3500 plus for a canopy to compete 2-3 times a year. So again no worries I can careless who they go to. I do think its a wing and like every other wing you fly whats over your head. Wording is everything and the way they worded the article on said canopy makes them (pd) sound snooty to me at least from a public relation stand point.


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Feb 18, 2013, 10:32 PM)


deathwish603  (B License)

Mar 10, 2013, 1:05 PM
Post #141 of 156 (2692 views)
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Re: [matt002] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Whats a difference? VS VELO PRO or PETRA for example? Looks awsome thou...


AiRpollUtiOn  (D 42)

Mar 15, 2013, 8:42 AM
Post #142 of 156 (2480 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

I read this thread from A to Z, Oh how wonderfull this internet is...


BMichaeli  (C License)

Mar 15, 2013, 5:35 PM
Post #143 of 156 (2344 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure if this was covered but i didn't see it.

Ian can you shed any light on why is this wing only for sub terminal jumps?

I am NO where close to flying this thing nor do i really think i will ever i'm just curious about it.


blueblur  (A 64923)

Mar 16, 2013, 7:34 AM
Post #144 of 156 (2261 views)
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Re: [BMichaeli] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

from the sound of it, ultra-light and thin lines plus very high wing-loads. Sounds like a good choice for snapped lines or a cracked neck!


yoink

Mar 16, 2013, 5:25 PM
Post #145 of 156 (2192 views)
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Re: [blueblur] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
from the sound of it, ultra-light and thin lines plus very high wing-loads. Sounds like a good choice for snapped lines or a cracked neck!

I doubt it's something that simple. If it were, you could swap out the lines and take it to terminal all day.

Designing a canopy is full of tradeoffs. You might want an ultra long dive which could come in part from an extremely steep trim, but a steep trim might be BAD news at terminal opening. We deploy at half brakes for a reason! Wink
You want lots of lift and control of wing tip vortices, so you go with a Schumann planform, but maybe the hyper-responsiveness that comes with that planform and that trying to reliably control a terminal deployment aren't compatible...

Usually designers compromise to get the best of all the factors they want... I'm guessing the design brief for the Peregrine went something along the lines of 'we want a primary swooping machine. Not a skydiving canopy that can be used for swooping. Focus on the former...'

My guess as to why it isn't meant to be taken to terminal? It wasn't designed to be.


(This post was edited by yoink on Mar 16, 2013, 5:31 PM)


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Mar 16, 2013, 7:24 PM
Post #146 of 156 (2164 views)
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Re: [yoink] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
My guess as to why it isn't meant to be taken to terminal? It wasn't designed to be.

Smile


Juzzie  (D License)

Mar 25, 2013, 5:24 AM
Post #147 of 156 (1845 views)
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Re: [deathwish603] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Whats a difference? VS VELO PRO or PETRA for example? Looks awsome thou...

PD got a Petra. Pulled it apart, put it back together. Stuck a PD logo o. There and called it a peregrine.

Icarus did the r&d PD put their spin on it


yoink

Mar 25, 2013, 9:29 AM
Post #148 of 156 (1794 views)
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Re: [Juzzie] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Whats a difference? VS VELO PRO or PETRA for example? Looks awsome thou...

PD got a Petra. Pulled it apart, put it back together. Stuck a PD logo o. There and called it a peregrine.

Icarus did the r&d PD put their spin on it

Thanks for your informed opinion.

Now, just so I can check - you're basing this assertion on

Personal familiarity with both parachutes?
Knowledge of the construction patterns of both?
Firsthand information of the PD / Icarus R&D process?

come on - You're posting this as fact on a public forum, so I'm asking you for your evidence. Put up or shut up. By the way, 'I heard' doesn't cut it...

I'm bored of all the Icarus vs PD bullshit that's been going on for years. The fanboyism is rediculous.


(This post was edited by yoink on Mar 25, 2013, 9:31 AM)


divegoddess  (C 32724)

Mar 25, 2013, 9:39 AM
Post #149 of 156 (1790 views)
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Re: [Juzzie] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

http://vimeo.com/54289143


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Mar 25, 2013, 9:59 AM)


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Mar 25, 2013, 9:58 AM
Post #150 of 156 (1778 views)
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Re: [divegoddess] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post


Smile


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Mar 25, 2013, 9:59 AM)


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