Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
peregrine video

 

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Zlew  (D 21616)

Feb 5, 2013, 5:56 PM
Post #51 of 156 (2940 views)
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Re: [blueblur] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Skydivers are known to not always follow the recommendations of the manufactures. Per PD, the RDS system is not approved for terminal openings, nor are the lightest hma lines (at last check anyway) but finding video of those is not difficult. Angelic edit-redneck grammar


(This post was edited by Zlew on Feb 5, 2013, 5:56 PM)


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Feb 5, 2013, 6:20 PM
Post #52 of 156 (2936 views)
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Re: [Zlew] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

True - this is on a much tighter leash though.

I've never taken it to terminal. 5-6 secs has been the longest. Opened quick but great.

Ian


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Feb 5, 2013, 6:21 PM)


swoopin

Feb 6, 2013, 1:10 AM
Post #53 of 156 (2873 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Maybe the world champion will get one now...

Yeah, considering he was the one that got his hands on a Petra in 2011, took it to Florida (having been told specifically not to), saving PD years and many thousands of dollars in R & D.

[source:] an informed one.


(This post was edited by swoopin on Feb 6, 2013, 1:38 AM)


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Feb 6, 2013, 6:15 AM
Post #54 of 156 (2810 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not really interested in allowing brand wars to develop here, nor tinfoil hat conspiracies.

Your insinuations are incorrect.

Ian


AdD  (D License)

Feb 6, 2013, 7:03 AM
Post #55 of 156 (2790 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Can't patent a planform. What's the point in debating who sewed what first?


swoopin

Feb 6, 2013, 3:18 PM
Post #56 of 156 (2683 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm not really interested in allowing brand wars to develop here, nor tinfoil hat conspiracies.

Your insinuations are incorrect.

Ian

It comes down to who you know and what your interests are really.

You are PDFT, you don't want brand wars obviously. This is not brand wars, this is a discussion on the Peregrine.

Having new canopies on the market is great, good for everyone, but the facts remain so I will refute your accusations as I am only passing information, not making things up.

What I 'KNOW' is that I was involved in a conversation with people, that I will not name, that have knowledge of a Petra being flown to Florida when the individual was specifically instructed not to do so. I respect those people very much so do not insinuate they are lying without explaining please. It is quite possible it could have happened without your knowledge.

You are also a moderator of this website as well as a PDFT member, so I will ask you this in all honesty;

Are you willing to confirm that the Peregrine was a result of comprehensive research and development from PD alone or was it something that came up all of a sudden in 2011?

I also understand from other conversations with other individuals that the sudden emergence of the 'Petrocity' and the limited access to it from those other than Jay caused a little tension in the PDFT.
This I cannot confirm this for sure as the source is less reliable in the sense that it is 2nd hand knowledge rather than first hand, but it seems very plausible based on the other information I have.

The reason I mention it is it reiterates how little knowledge anyone had of the R & D program and because you should have knowledge of whether this is the case or not so you should be able to confirm whether or not it is true.

Without any of this information anyhow it still seems peculiar that the airfoil design results of R&D from two separate companies would end up as similar as these two wings with all the variables to consider.

Attached is a photographic comparison of Petra and the very first PD prototype 9 cell, cross braced canopy in competition (3DPIC 2011).

Can you say, on the record, that the Peregrine is not a result of plagiarism?

Not trying to start a war, just adding to the conversation. This is a forum after all and not an advertisement.


(This post was edited by swoopin on Feb 6, 2013, 4:45 PM)
Attachments: 324399_331598270203221_984173480_o.jpg (180 KB)


MarsGirl  (D License)

Feb 6, 2013, 9:00 PM
Post #57 of 156 (2625 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

I tend to believe the person who is willing to put their name behind what they have to say. In this case, Ian. Don't name your "sources" if you don't want to, but who are you?

P.S. the mods most likely know who you are. They have your IP address. That can be used with very little effort to find out much more info.


swoopin

Feb 6, 2013, 9:57 PM
Post #58 of 156 (2612 views)
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Re: [MarsGirl] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I tend to believe the person who is willing to put their name behind what they have to say. In this case, Ian. Don't name your "sources" if you don't want to, but who are you?

I tend to believe common sense and what I observe. Discussing the subject is usually more productive than questioning the integrity of a poster.
Who I am, is far less interesting than what I am saying. What I am saying is actually known and discussed by a few. A PD factory team member even referred to his canopy as a 'Petrocity' for laughs when we were in Dubai.


matt002

Feb 7, 2013, 12:56 AM
Post #59 of 156 (2591 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

It's just common sense really, provided no copyrights are infringed then why not take a look at a proven example before staring work on your own version, much cheaper and quicker. There will no doubt be small changes made on the final design.

I have a friend in the jumpsuit business, the staring point for every design will be examining a proven example first, sometimes it will be disassembled too.

I liked the way NZ Aerosports released the R&D video of the prototype test jumps and different designs that eventually became the Petra. No question who put the legwork into this new generation of wing.


swoopin

Feb 7, 2013, 1:56 AM
Post #60 of 156 (2578 views)
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Re: [matt002] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

If only there was a like button on here. ^


DocPop  (C License)

Feb 7, 2013, 6:42 AM
Post #61 of 156 (2494 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

The Schuemann wing planform is not new and was not invented for the Petra.

PD was working on this kind of wing shape back in the 80s, but shelved it for some reason to which I am not privy.

I don't know why there has to always be a conspiracy theory - a competitive environment between parachute companies is the fertile ground from which product improvement grows.


blueblur  (A 64923)

Feb 7, 2013, 8:32 AM
Post #62 of 156 (2457 views)
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Re: [DocPop] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Called "standing on the shoulders of giants"


swoopin

Feb 7, 2013, 12:13 PM
Post #63 of 156 (2376 views)
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Re: [DocPop] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
PD was working on this kind of wing shape back in the 80s, but shelved it for some reason to which I am not privy.

Oh so the peregrine has nothing to do with the emergence of the Petra. gotcha.

At least Aerosports admit they used PD's technology (Excalibur) to develop the Icarus extreme project.

In reply to:
I don't know why there has to always be a conspiracy theory - a competitive environment between parachute companies is the fertile ground from which product improvement grows.

Not a conspiracy, it is how it happened simple.

Imitation is the best form of flattery. This whole thing is terrific for everyone including all canopy companies.

It is quite amusing to see people deny that that the Peregrine has anything to do with the Petra.

'Conspiracy theory' seems to be a weak excuse for; "I want you to be wrong, but cannot or do not want to explain why", these days.


(This post was edited by swoopin on Feb 7, 2013, 12:14 PM)


yoink

Feb 7, 2013, 3:30 PM
Post #64 of 156 (2302 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Imitation is the best form of flattery. This whole thing is terrific for everyone including all canopy companies.

If you believe that, then why does it matter? And why are you riding this horse? What's the axe you're grinding?

I'm not sure anyone one else cares, to be honest.

You're talking about 2 canopies that less than 1% of the skydiving public will ever see, let alone fly or own.


blueblur  (A 64923)

Feb 7, 2013, 4:29 PM
Post #65 of 156 (2285 views)
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Re: [yoink] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Imitation is the best form of flattery. This whole thing is terrific for everyone including all canopy companies.

If you believe that, then why does it matter? And why are you riding this horse? What's the axe you're grinding?

I'm not sure anyone one else cares, to be honest.

You're talking about 2 canopies that less than 1% of the skydiving public will ever see, let alone fly or own.

Ooh ooh ooh I'm a 1%'er! I seen it I tells ya!


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 7, 2013, 4:58 PM
Post #66 of 156 (2275 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It is quite amusing to see people deny that that the Peregrine has anything to do with the Petra.

'Conspiracy theory' seems to be a weak excuse for; "I want you to be wrong, but cannot or do not want to explain why", these days.

Looks like someone has their panties in a wad because they weren't invited to the special new canopy party.

Laugh


swoopin

Feb 7, 2013, 5:13 PM
Post #67 of 156 (2271 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Lol. I post a true observation on a public forum. Get called a liar a conspiracy nut (by a moderator no less) and all of a sudden I am the one with sour grapes?

No wonder this site is referred to as dork zone.

Lets see what Ian has to say to my questions. He is the one that insinuated I was making things up. Now he has to decide if if wants to appease the minions here or keep his integrity among others in the swooping community that also know what I have stated.

Tough call huh..?


(This post was edited by swoopin on Feb 7, 2013, 5:18 PM)


DocPop  (C License)

Feb 7, 2013, 5:51 PM
Post #68 of 156 (2256 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

You come here spouting unsupported crap and hiding behind an anonymous user profile and then talk about integrity.

I doubt anyone will take you seriously.

I am very curious as to your motives, because you certainly seem to have an axe to grind.


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 7, 2013, 6:40 PM
Post #69 of 156 (2240 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Lol. I post a true observation on a public forum. Get called a liar a conspiracy nut (by a moderator no less) and all of a sudden I am the one with sour grapes?

Well, the guys jumping those canopies are guys I've drank beer with, swooped with and competed with and they don't agree with you, but you won't even say who you are...so who am I to believe?


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Feb 7, 2013, 6:41 PM
Post #70 of 156 (2240 views)
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Re: [swoopin] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Tough call huh..?

Not at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I seriously doubt that there's anything I could say that would satisfy your incorrect, and incomplete view of the events. That's ok.

I would encourage you to visit PD sometime and take a tour, if you're lucky you may run into John and get some conversation time and you can ask him some of your questions then. Maybe you'll be even luckier and he'll divulge some timeline and R&D info to you.

Until then, best of luck in your search.

Ian


dima39  (D 177246)

Feb 7, 2013, 9:48 PM
Post #71 of 156 (2204 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
True - this is on a much tighter leash though.

I've never taken it to terminal. 5-6 secs has been the longest. Opened quick but great.

Ian
Still interesting to see some opening video, don't interesting in brand's wars.
Trying to convince some crazy friends that they doesn't need try to buy Peregrine for every day swooping Smile
Some of them telling: "PD will selling it to us, just matter of time, maybe next year"


(This post was edited by dima39 on Feb 7, 2013, 9:52 PM)


swoopin

Feb 8, 2013, 12:57 AM
Post #72 of 156 (2178 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually you could easily satisfy by stating whether or not you were aware of any significant R & D of the peregrine prior to the 3DPIC comp. As I previously requested.

I am reasonably certain there was not and the canopy was simply copied a changed a little. A covert xerox mission if you will. You are obviously avoiding such a statement to save face as it will be on the record.

It need not have come to this but you are the one that delivered personal insults therefore prompting my clarification and questions.

I have been to the PD factory (impressive), I have also had a discussion with John in recent history (nice guy, cool plane)...

The facts still remain, Petra was taken to Florida by Curt, he was specifically told not to, and very shortly after Jay is competing on a very similar though less advanced copy.

Once again I believe it is a good thing for most in the end, but that is how I believe it went down based on my observations. Shit I may well be incorrect but you are not making it look that way.

You can call me all you like I find it amusing, but I believe you will continue to refrain from stating whether or not there was in fact a comprehensive (PD style ) R&D program for this canopy for, obvious reasons.

That is all I have to offer the conversation at this point. No point in doing the scratched record thing when you side step the facts and I predict you will continue to avoid the answers to those questions so I will leave it at that.

Toodles.


(This post was edited by swoopin on Feb 8, 2013, 1:25 AM)


trigger  (D 101390)

Feb 8, 2013, 1:08 AM
Post #73 of 156 (2175 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Heard the same thing as Swoopin last year i.e that PD were given a JPX.
Doesn't mean the Peregrine is a copy even if the above statement is true and who cares, i put the skill of the pilot way before the canopy.
We could all go and purchase a Comp Velo or a JVX or just about anything else for that matter but owning something doesn't equate to skill and i applaud PD in limiting who can fly the Peregrine to the guys/girls who have proven themselves in the competition arena.


matt002

Feb 8, 2013, 1:52 AM
Post #74 of 156 (2165 views)
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Re: [trigger] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In effect, PD are continuing to ensure that the guys on the podium are flying PD canopies(and now paying for the privilege), pretty easy to do in the past as the Factory Team were so far ahead of the game in competitive CP. Not so easy in the last few years as the standards have improved.

I don't buy the safety angle, I've been flying very small speed wings that use a similar planform the last few years, much better low speed lift.

Clever marketing, tho.


(This post was edited by matt002 on Feb 8, 2013, 2:02 AM)


trigger  (D 101390)

Feb 8, 2013, 2:12 AM
Post #75 of 156 (2154 views)
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Re: [matt002] peregrine video [In reply to] Can't Post

Matt not every wannabe has the skill to fly their current canopy let alone the next level.
Look at one of the incidents from last year, guy with 300 jumps pounds in with a velo for example.

Marketing is marketing, not that PD needs to raise brand awareness, but as a generalisation i think people like to associate themselves with the leaders through brands.
Renault Williams does well in F1 lets all go and drive a piece of crap Clio, oh look at me i wear Primani underpants.Tongue


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