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Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga

 

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andymarch  (C 40813)

Jan 24, 2013, 8:26 AM
Post #51 of 126 (4025 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Safire2-129 might be a fast canopy for me, but not fast enough to be pricey. I sold Tri-160 and bought it used actually saving some money.

Best reason to downsize right there...said no one.

Speaking of jumping to conclusions... sigh... Exactly, Where did I say that?? I only made a point that you don't need to have money lying around to downsize.


mx19  (D License)

Jan 24, 2013, 8:58 AM
Post #52 of 126 (4006 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
Safire2-129 might be a fast canopy for me, but not fast enough to be pricey. I sold Tri-160 and bought it used actually saving some money.

Best reason to downsize right there...said no one.

Speaking of jumping to conclusions... sigh... Exactly, Where did I say that?? I only made a point that you don't need to have money lying around to downsize.

But you do need, experience, skill, knowledge, training, and awareness among other things, all of which you seem to be lacking.


(This post was edited by mx19 on Jan 24, 2013, 8:59 AM)


elightle  (D 5966)

Jan 24, 2013, 9:14 AM
Post #53 of 126 (3989 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Pattern, Pattern, Pattern... Period!


jclalor  (B 33202)

Jan 24, 2013, 11:22 AM
Post #54 of 126 (3903 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In reply to:
So it's either chasing people around, asking for some hints, going somewhere for the course (expensive, vacation-wise too) or getting enough interest to bring someone in.

In reply to:

Here's a hint~

Either learn how to fly a fucking pattern before you kill someone - or get out of the sport.

You shouldn't NEED a specialized canopy course in order to understand & perform the basic traffic pattern you should have learned in you initial training.

Your apology is worthless lip-service & no excuse is valid...you either have no idea what you're doing or you don't care about the lives of people in the air with you.

Either is unacceptable, Flush out your head-gear N00b...fix this!

Do some serious thinking here, you are putting others lives in jeopardy.

I could not give a flying fuck if this guy pounds in, I just don't want him pounding in with me wrapped around him.

People like this are the only serious reason I ever ponder leaving the sport. People always ask me if I'M afraid that my parachute won't work, I have to explain the real danger is selfish fucking idiots that don't look where there flying.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 24, 2013, 1:49 PM
Post #55 of 126 (3831 views)
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Re: [jclalor] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
In reply to:
So it's either chasing people around, asking for some hints, going somewhere for the course (expensive, vacation-wise too) or getting enough interest to bring someone in.

In reply to:

Here's a hint~

Either learn how to fly a fucking pattern before you kill someone - or get out of the sport.

You shouldn't NEED a specialized canopy course in order to understand & perform the basic traffic pattern you should have learned in you initial training.

Your apology is worthless lip-service & no excuse is valid...you either have no idea what you're doing or you don't care about the lives of people in the air with you.

Either is unacceptable, Flush out your head-gear N00b...fix this!

Do some serious thinking here, you are putting others lives in jeopardy.

I could not give a flying fuck if this guy pounds in, I just don't want him pounding in with me wrapped around him.

People like this are the only serious reason I ever ponder leaving the sport. People always ask me if I'M afraid that my parachute won't work, I have to explain the real danger is selfish fucking idiots that don't look where there flying.

Exactly, in fact I have several friends who stepped away from the sport after decades in because of people who clearly have no concept of what's going on or at stake, recklessly endangering everyone around them.

This 'I'm sorry, I mean well' 'It's not my fault' & 'a canopy course will fix everything'....bullshit doesn't wash in the real world away from Disneyland
& video games...

These 'proudest moment videos' show an extreme level of ineptitude combined with what seems to be a total lack of awareness & understanding that 'two seconds and some luck' are all that stand between 'just another jump and a fatality'

This sport has plenty of inherit risk that we all access & factor into our decision participate, throw in a loose cannon unpredictable wild card and it's anyone's guess as to how drastically the odds have changed.

It's idiotic that everyone's chances of injury or death skyrocket simply because of some asshole that's either to dumb or to lazy to take personal responsibility for the basic skills taught on day one.

~ cutting through traffic blindly, not yielding to lower canopies, changing line of flight at 50 feet with traffic around...
...and he wants to make it clear that it doesn't 'cost' a lot to downsize.

Kid, you have no fuckin' IDEA what your downsizing COULD cost.
MadCrazy


NeonLights  (D License)

Jan 24, 2013, 2:17 PM
Post #56 of 126 (3804 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Whats up with the rules on patterns at this/these DZ/DZ's? To be honest, some of the clips are really not bad... but others, im pretty surprised no one noticed and talked to him.


fanya  (D License)

Jan 24, 2013, 2:58 PM
Post #57 of 126 (3767 views)
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re: Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Well then, that was an interesting video.

It's like sanji all over again.

I'll take august 17


andymarch  (C 40813)

Jan 24, 2013, 3:44 PM
Post #58 of 126 (3732 views)
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Re: [NeonLights] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Whats up with the rules on patterns at this/these DZ/DZ's? To be honest, some of the clips are really not bad... but others, im pretty surprised no one noticed and talked to him.

I did have a talk twice. Clip by clip:
DLand - bad spotting, strong winds, some landing off-field, no pattern, they were picking up people all over airport. The only time (4th) when we opened high and were close, I made a 90 turn, being in the pattern, all good. Usually, you can make both left and right traffic to final, just need to stay on your own side of the center line.

Z-Hills - in the pattern, in the pattern, really stupidly caught myself going against the traffic (147), when they asked to give more time and space separation. So on consecutive jumps I landed on the side of the field while outfloating everyone.

Sebastian - they have in the corner next to the bridge for high performance landings, where people were landing pretty much vertically over the concrete/hangars, and the pattern further away.
Very valid point here, that I was trying stuff beyond my skill level, control and consistency, but again, outfloating everyone in the swooping area and being far from people in the pattern or the first one down (don't mind yellow Katana-89, he was specifically watching me) there was no concerns from other's point of view (I've asked).
Then already at home (166), another valid point, was asked to land off-field rather than diagonally, even when there is nobody else in the pattern.

Again, foreseeing some angry replies, I'm not saying I knew what I was doing or that it was safe, only that others didn't think I was cutting their paths or being a concern to their landings.


ReluctantStool  (A 65507)

Jan 24, 2013, 6:40 PM
Post #59 of 126 (3633 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Please be mindful of traffic. You nearly beheaded a few people. Just sayin....get that close to me on landing, im gonna have to closeline you!!!! LaughLaughLaugh We all wanna go home at the end of the day. Slow down a bit.


Fearjoburg  (A 7079)

Jan 25, 2013, 3:53 AM
Post #60 of 126 (3523 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I did have a talk twice. Clip by clip:

Plus everybody else on this forum is "having a talk with you". When someone with thousands of jumps more than me talks to me I tend to listen.

But it appears to me that you are "above" everybody else and the people who got a shitload of jumping experience than you.

So I suppose that it doesn't help preaching to you as your mind is already made up.

Don't forget to post a video on Youtube as well WHEN you pound in and if you survive it.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Jan 25, 2013, 4:45 AM
Post #61 of 126 (3503 views)
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Re: [Fearjoburg] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Don't forget to post a video on Youtube as well WHEN you pound in and if you survive it.

Well that's a helpful comment now isn't it? Congratulations on being a douchebag!

Anyways, what I saw in the video from a purely beginner swooping aspect wasn't completely horrible. He was generally coming out high, with obvious mistakes. If it wasn't in traffic and the turns were 90's I don't think there's anything wrong aside from the fact that he could benefit from some coaching to increase his chances of making it through this agressive learning path.

Here's awhat I did see that I disagree with in the video:
-TRAFFIC - What the F*CK? Dude..that needs to stop! Nothing more needs to be said, just don't swoop in traffic.

-Left riser, right riser, left riser, cutting off the other traffic along the way. Again, not much to say here other than that is completely not swooping. If you want to swoop, do it properly, even while learning.

-Target fixation...It's pretty clear that you should probably do some landings focusing more on the landing than the swooping. Most of your landings veered towards a target that you were clearly fixed on. Yeah I know, you were "aiming" for them and were spot on, right? Wrong...don't aim for objects in your path. Once you get good and start working on gates, you'll know better by then and it's done differently.

-Degree of turns. Dude...90's are more than you'll ever need for the next 500 jumps. I'm 500 jumps in and still only do 90's, but I've learnt to better control the canopy and the actual swoop as a result. By no means am I an ace, but I'm taking it slow to learn as much as I can on 90's and I still have plenty to learn.

-TRAFFIC - This needed to be mentioned again! How do you think you'd feel if you crashed into a friend, they died and you got to live? I'll tell you...you'll feel the worst you've ever felt in your life because it would have been preventable.

I started out much like you, but I had a bit more common sense to avoid traffic and I wasn't learning while on vacation at boogies with hoards of other canopies around. "Floating" above everyone else will help, but what about that small girl who is unintentionally "floating" under her 288, and you don't see her. Guess what...you just killed someone, and maybe yourself too.

Get some coaching, even from one of the swoopers at your local DZ if you don't want to take a full course. Just get someone to give you some guidance, but most importantly, STAY AWAY from other canopies. Go to a cessna DZ where you can easily count the other canopies.

Good luck dude...keep at it, but use what's available to you!


(This post was edited by Chris-Ottawa on Jan 25, 2013, 4:48 AM)


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 25, 2013, 4:56 AM
Post #62 of 126 (3491 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well that's a helpful comment now isn't it? Congratulations on being a douchebag!

Not really, sometimes people have their head so far up their own ass, nothing but a good swift kick in the nuts will get through to them.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Jan 25, 2013, 4:57 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 25, 2013, 6:04 AM
Post #63 of 126 (3447 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Anyways, what I saw in the video from a purely beginner swooping aspect wasn't completely horrible. He was generally coming out high,

I don't think we were watching the same video. What I saw was a guy taking too deep, and panic flare/stabbing out of every lading, to the point of popping up on most landings.


trigger  (D 101390)

Jan 25, 2013, 8:23 AM
Post #64 of 126 (3375 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
only that others didn't think I was cutting their paths or being a concern to their landings.
Quote:

Andy its very likely the other jumpers on the load didn't see you.
You'll be surprised at how many people, like yourself get fixated on their landing at the expense of being oblivious to what's happening around them.
Be aware of the fact that unintentionally everyone's trying to kill you.


andymarch  (C 40813)

Jan 25, 2013, 12:49 PM
Post #65 of 126 (3241 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Fearjoburg: But it appears to me that you are "above" everybody else and the people who got a shitload of jumping experience than you.

On the complete opposite. I'm really surprised to see the same comments and points made, me AGREEING to them, getting the plan figured out, yet people claiming over and over I know better and ignore everyone.

Quote:
Here's what I did see that I disagree with in the video:
-TRAFFIC - What the F*CK? Dude..that needs to stop! Nothing more needs to be said, just don't swoop in traffic.
Yes, AGREED, maximum separation, coaching, PATTERN, accuracy and flare - from the 90s.
Quote:
-Target fixation...don't aim for objects in your path...Once you get good and start working on gates, you'll know better by then and it's done differently.
I guess I'll get there once I work enough on the above.

Quote:
-Degree of turns. Dude...90's are more than you'll ever need for the next 500 jumps.
Being ignorant as I am, let's say at least 100 jumps, then maybe another 100, then as the progress goes :)

Quote:
Get some coaching, even from one of the swoopers at your local DZ if you don't want to take a full course...STAY AWAY from other canopies...
Good luck dude...keep at it, but use what's available to you!
As I said many times before, coaching - first chance I get, locals - already have few people that offered help, can't wait! Will read Brian's book, work on traffic and altitude
awareness and accuracy, 90s and flare (tried rears a few times, they don't seem to level out the flare, landed on my but, definitely need some coaching here).
Thank you for all the advice and especially for the attitude, man!


DocPop  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 1:35 PM
Post #66 of 126 (3201 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

You could learn a lot about your pattern from a FJC. You don't need a specific canopy coach for that.


aulanov

Jan 25, 2013, 2:11 PM
Post #67 of 126 (3180 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I did have a talk twice. Clip by clip:

Andrey, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that many of us, people you've been jumping with, have been telling you all along that many things you've been doing were dangerous, irresponsible and stupid.
You've never been taking it very seriously though. I only regret I've never been assertive enough to make you realize that.


(This post was edited by aulanov on Jan 25, 2013, 2:12 PM)


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 2:20 PM
Post #68 of 126 (3169 views)
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Re: [aulanov] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I did have a talk twice. Clip by clip:

Andrey, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that many of us, people you've been jumping with, have been telling you all along that many things you've been doing were dangerous, irresponsible and stupid.
You've never been taking it very seriously though. I only regret I've never been assertive enough to make you realize that.

Sigh...


fanya  (D License)

Jan 25, 2013, 8:08 PM
Post #69 of 126 (3059 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Since no one else has linked it, here's some reading material with posts that are eerily similar to yours. Look for the posts specifically made by Sangi and what everyone else was saying to him and about him.

http://www.dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

And the aftermath

http://www.dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Hope it all works out for you.


Krip  (Student)

Jan 26, 2013, 4:45 AM
Post #70 of 126 (2956 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Andy

Since your jumping in the PNW where there are exended periods of periods with lots of white clouds, The next time you change canopies get a different color than white Tongue

At least some people will be able to see you under canopyShocked.

Plus what everyone else said.Smile

Have a happy
R.

R.


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Jan 27, 2013, 6:22 AM
Post #71 of 126 (2685 views)
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Re: [Fearjoburg] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

I did have a talk twice. Clip by clip:



Don't forget to post a video on Youtube as well WHEN you pound in and if you survive it.

Until you do, could you post up at what boogies and drop zones you'll jumping?


Croc  (D 29552)

Jan 27, 2013, 6:39 AM
Post #72 of 126 (2673 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

If you can't learn to fly a pattern at least you can learn to stop arguing with people who have twenty times more jumps then you. It makes you sound like an asshole with mad skilz.

Oh, duh.


normiss  (D 28356)

Jan 27, 2013, 7:01 AM
Post #73 of 126 (2661 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

^This.

I don't want to be in the air if someone is flying their canopy like this.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 27, 2013, 8:18 PM
Post #74 of 126 (2449 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

I did have a talk twice. Clip by clip:



Don't forget to post a video on Youtube as well WHEN you pound in and if you survive it.

Until you do, could you post up at what boogies and drop zones you'll jumping?

I hope you are replying to andymarch and not really to Fearjoburg


Krip  (Student)

Jan 27, 2013, 9:26 PM
Post #75 of 126 (2420 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Until you do, could you post up at what boogies and drop zones you'll jumping?

Hi DB

Don't worry be happy.Smile

The rocket jocky posted his name and at least one of his home DZ's in his profile. As long as your not jumping in the seattle metroplex he's their problem. Their not blind, just busySly

If you go to the Boogie at LP or the west coast check the manifest ot registration for the name in his profile or screen name no one has to jump with him unless he's your bossSly


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