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Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga

 

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kenthediver  (A License)

Jan 23, 2013, 12:13 AM
Post #26 of 126 (4217 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

He comments in the YouTube link that he is hoping to get Brian Germaine to come to Seattle for a Canopy Flying course. Surely someone here knows the DZO at Seattle and can forward the link, with a suggestion that they have a strong chat to this bloke!


unkulunkulu  (C License)

Jan 23, 2013, 4:46 AM
Post #27 of 126 (4134 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I'm a bit new to this, so I really can't wrap my head around all this. In driving, you get your license suspended for crossing the double line (maybe even worse, I'm not a driver) and you get arrested for exceeding the speed limit, not simply that license thing, you can go to jail. Why on earth should a DZ tolerate this behaviour? Plain business, this? Unsure

Well, before I only read about those guys, now I saw this and it's really scary, slicing all that traffic like that Unsure What made him think he has right to do this?


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 23, 2013, 6:59 AM
Post #28 of 126 (4038 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Video is now "Private."

Go figure. Unimpressed


piisfish

Jan 23, 2013, 7:15 AM
Post #29 of 126 (4031 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

did anyone save it ?


NeonLights  (D License)

Jan 23, 2013, 7:19 AM
Post #30 of 126 (4028 views)
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Re: [unkulunkulu] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

@unkulunkulu
In america, thats some pretty harsh punishment for traffic violations!


(This post was edited by NeonLights on Jan 23, 2013, 7:19 AM)


normiss  (D 28356)

Jan 23, 2013, 7:59 AM
Post #31 of 126 (3990 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

his others


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jan 23, 2013, 8:10 AM
Post #32 of 126 (3979 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, always download these kind of videos if one wants to see them again! And there are ways of finding them in one's hard drive cache too. (Eg, for Firefox, Nirsoft's free VideoCacheView works if one follows the instructions.)

Hey, look at that, "LTS" (Learning to Swoop) showed up at:

http://www.mediafire.com/?csi4hjxejxj0a3r

Funny how that happened.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jan 23, 2013, 8:34 AM
Post #33 of 126 (3956 views)
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Re: [Shredex] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Because no one at the DZ knows who the heck you are...No one really knows your jump numbers.

Sure, manifest might know your jump numbers...but manifest is in manifest and they can't keep an eye on everyone at the DZ because they are busy manifesting.

Manifest should be in charge of keeping the aircraft going smoothly. Someone else should be monitoring the LZ.


normiss  (D 28356)

Jan 23, 2013, 8:58 AM
Post #34 of 126 (3940 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Now I wonder how long until it makes it back to YouTube?!
DGIT!


andymarch  (C 40813)

Jan 23, 2013, 12:24 PM
Post #35 of 126 (3800 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey there! Wow, popcorn and everything!

First, the video is suspended for soundtrack copyright reasons (didnít expect that, did you!), working on thatÖ not sure I want to make it public again with all the vultures wishing me isolated, killed or ever worse... expelled (C). It should still be a good idea to have it online as a lesson to me and everyone else stepping on the same path.
Yes, Iíll get coaching the very first thing jumping resumes [in Spring].

No, I donít believe I had a good judgment or doing the right things. As much as I tried to over float others and stay away from everybody in the pattern some jumps were SAFE (stupid and fucking extreme), and you really donít need much for accident to happen. Analogy with cars doesnít really work since high jumpers that swoop are landing to the same gravel circle with everybody else in pattern, but I believe you when you say that they not really are, and I need more experience to understand that. Whoever is mad at me here, Iím sorry.

Yes, DZs and local friends did see this video and had a talk with me about the same. Since they know me, they were much less bloodthirsty, I have several people who offered to watch my landings and coach me.

No more 270s, definitely no more 180s! Back to the basics. Work on flare, slow turns, pattern and accuracy. Iím really grateful to everyone for useful insights.

[ducks and covers]


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 23, 2013, 12:52 PM
Post #36 of 126 (3776 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow. I have to say that you have guts to show up here. The "vultures" can be pretty harsh.

But you have to realize there are valid reasons for that level of anger. Search "Bob Holler" and "Danny Page" to find out what has happened doing what you did in the pattern.

Search "Sangi" to find out what has happened to someone just like you. On a 129 Safire, no less.

And the video didn't show "suspended" when I looked this morning, it was "private." There's a difference.

But I'm glad to hear that you were willing to listen to your friends and are going to stop the stupidity.

Really, I am. Nobody wants to see you get hurt. It's just that there have been a lot of "youse" (if that's a word) that have come and gone. Some learned before they got hurt, some learned after they got hurt (with varying levels of permanent injury and disablity) and some had about 3 seconds of life left to realize how serious their error was.


yoink

Jan 23, 2013, 1:49 PM
Post #37 of 126 (3709 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Kudos on showing up.

When people are playing bounce bingo it's generally a last resort to get you to understand that your behavior will get you (or worse, someone else) killed. Not if. Not maybe. WILL. That video showed some of the worst piloting I've seen in a long time.


There's a progression to learning to swoop that you seem to have missed fundamental theory on.
FIRST, you get your pattern sorted.
THEN, you increase your speed.
THEN, you increase your rotation.

All of this happens over hundreds, if not thousands of jumps.

You've obviously got a taste for the speed and flying, and that's great! But the problem is that people who have gone down your route before are usually impatient to get back there, to the point that they believe they're exceptional - even if they take some canopy coaching it's usually a case of working on stuff for a few dozen jumps and then going back to believing they're hot shit and bringing back the poor decisions and crappy skills.

Sorry guy. There's no shortcut.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jan 23, 2013, 2:47 PM
Post #38 of 126 (3655 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

We all just don't understand and fully appreciate his MAD SKILLZ!! You all are just "haters". Bet he rides motorcycles and participates in all sorts of other high-speed sports too, and all THAT, just by its very virtue, hello - - - puts him way ahead of just the otherwise blahze mundane, "average" curve.

Youz-all just gotta stop hatin', and start recognizing.
Really. Crazy


andymarch  (C 40813)

Jan 23, 2013, 6:18 PM
Post #39 of 126 (3520 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Never said that :)

BTW, looking at all the videos out there, is this safe enough?
http://youtu.be/B_dFonEFN2w


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 23, 2013, 6:52 PM
Post #40 of 126 (3501 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
BTW, looking at all the videos out there, is this safe enough?
http://youtu.be/B_dFonEFN2w

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest about that video, but I hope you understand it's a far stretch from what you posted.

I see some fairly consistant flying, where the pilot appears to be in control during all phases of the landing.

I cannot say the same for the video you posted. It was scary and wrong in many different ways. Unless you've been living under a rock, there's no way you thought that what you were doing was a 'good' idea, or anyting close to what is normally considered 'accpetable' or 'prudent'.

Truth is, based on the type of flying you were trying to do, it shows that you have indeed not been linving under a rock. You're clearly not some uninformed newbie from an old-shcool, backwwods DZ where they just don't know any better, you're tuned in to 'modern' skydiving, and you willfully chose to embrace the parts that you thought were 'cool', and ignore anything you thought was going to get in your way, such as common sense or any sort of reasonable progression or adavanced training.

'I hope I can get enough interest to get a class together and bring Brian Germain to Seattle'. Sure, but you clearly had the time and money buy a fast canopy and to take yourself to several Florida DZs for a good deal of fun jumping. None of that time or money went toward any sort of coaching or canopy control class. Put the cart before the horse much?

Some might applaud you for coming forward after your video went 'viral'. I maintain that you're the same douche who made the video, and the constant and repeated bad decisions that went into making it.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Jan 23, 2013, 8:30 PM
Post #41 of 126 (3411 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Really, I am. Nobody wants to see you get hurt.

I don't know about that.

None of the people I know who made a visit to the orthopedic surgeon are dead or disabled and only one made a return visit.

Lesee.. one, two, three, four, five died from bad judgement without a surgical intervention before then.

I prefer when jumpers who listen and learn from other peoples' mistakes, but when they don't I hope for enough of an injury to be a learning experience with no permanent damage because things are likely to be much worse later in their career at a higher wing loading.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Jan 23, 2013, 8:34 PM)


swoopfly  (E License)

Jan 23, 2013, 8:33 PM
Post #42 of 126 (3409 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

I like how he thinks he was doing 270's, it was more like three 90's


andymarch  (C 40813)

Jan 23, 2013, 10:28 PM
Post #43 of 126 (3359 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't jump into conclusions on so many assumptions.

I wasn't comparing this video to mine, I was asking exactly what I did. I seemed fairly safe practice and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

Safire2-129 might be a fast canopy for me, but not fast enough to be pricey. I sold Tri-160 and bought it used actually saving some money.
And it's not even the issue with canopy course. Be it the weather, timing, demand or some other factors, since I got interested, there wasn't a single course offered (also in Florida when we were there) that I could attend! And nothing scheduled either. But there were 4 (four) water trainings already during the same time.
So it's either chasing people around, asking for some hints, going somewhere for the course (expensive, vacation-wise too) or getting enough interest to bring someone in.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 24, 2013, 4:11 AM
Post #44 of 126 (3266 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
So it's either chasing people around, asking for some hints, going somewhere for the course (expensive, vacation-wise too) or getting enough interest to bring someone in.

Whatever you excuse is, you didn't get any sort of training or coaching, and at 100 jumps you made an aggressive down size (skipping right over the 135/139/150 size canopies) and started high performance landings, practically from the first jump on the wing (as shown in your video). Then you took that wing to new-to-you, busy DZs, and proceeded to fly recklessly through traffic over, and over, and over again.

I'm not sure how calling you out on that is 'jumping to conclusions'. You knew exactly what you were doing, and you thought you were hot shit because of it. Meanwhile, you can see you whizzing past canopy after canopy in the pattern all throughout your video.


trigger  (D 101390)

Jan 24, 2013, 5:21 AM
Post #45 of 126 (3213 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Andy, hard fact but i don't really care if someone gets hurt or even killed by their own reckless illinformed actions.
However ,i do care about the damage those actions can do to the reputation of a given DZ ,i care about that and was amazed no-one showed you the red card.
Also you endangered others and thats simply not acceptable.

I sincerely hope you rein it in and go back to basics and work on pattern and accuracy and slow flight.

Good luck with arranging a CC course, failing that find a hard bastard, no shit mentor, someone you can respect whose not afraid of hurting your feelings..at least thats what i did 11 years ago when courses in my neck of the woods were, well non existent.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jan 24, 2013, 5:26 AM
Post #46 of 126 (3203 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Safire2-129 might be a fast canopy for me, but not fast enough to be pricey. I sold Tri-160 and bought it used actually saving some money.

WTF dude...speechless.

Best reason to downsize right there...said no one.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 24, 2013, 5:32 AM
Post #47 of 126 (3198 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Safire2-129 might be a fast canopy for me, but not fast enough to be pricey. I sold Tri-160 and bought it used actually saving some money.

Worst reason for downsizing that I've ever seen.


In reply to:
Be it the weather, timing, demand or some other factors, since I got interested, there wasn't a single course offered (also in Florida when we were there) that I could attend! And nothing scheduled either.

I highly doubt that there was nobody willing to sit down with you and help you out at any of those dropzones, especially if they saw how you were flying.


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 24, 2013, 7:12 AM
Post #48 of 126 (3132 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm willing to bet he was talked to and he with all those mad skillz decided he knows better and blew it all off, clearly he has no clue! Not only would I ground his ass, if cut me off like that he might get an ass kicking in the landing area for trying to kill me or my students, or my friends. NO EXCUSES for that kind of stupid flying.

Andy, you need to pull that head out that ass and get educated and fast..... I'll still take July 4th 2013 for 20 Alex.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 24, 2013, 7:15 AM
Post #49 of 126 (3128 views)
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Re: [DrewEckhardt] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Really, I am. Nobody wants to see you get hurt.

I don't know about that.

None of the people I know who made a visit to the orthopedic surgeon are dead or disabled and only one made a return visit.

Lesee.. one, two, three, four, five died from bad judgement without a surgical intervention before then.

I prefer when jumpers who listen and learn from other peoples' mistakes, but when they don't I hope for enough of an injury to be a learning experience with no permanent damage because things are likely to be much worse later in their career at a higher wing loading.

Good point. Although I personally know one who has yet to learn, despite 2 serious incidents.

Billvon has said something to the effect of: "I hope you femur. Not because I want to see you get hurt, but because it's a serious enough injury to wake you up and one that usually heals without permanent disablity."

I'd still rather Mr "MadSkilz" learned the easier way.
But that is up to him.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 24, 2013, 8:25 AM
Post #50 of 126 (3068 views)
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Re: [andymarch] Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga [In reply to] Can't Post

So it's either chasing people around, asking for some hints, going somewhere for the course (expensive, vacation-wise too) or getting enough interest to bring someone in.

In reply to:

Here's a hint~

Either learn how to fly a fucking pattern before you kill someone - or get out of the sport.

You shouldn't NEED a specialized canopy course in order to understand & perform the basic traffic pattern you should have learned in you initial training.

Your apology is worthless lip-service & no excuse is valid...you either have no idea what you're doing or you don't care about the lives of people in the air with you.

Either is unacceptable, Flush out your head-gear N00b...fix this!

Do some serious thinking here, you are putting others lives in jeopardy.


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