Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Fatality- Strathallan- 2013

 

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ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:40 AM
Post #26 of 65 (3391 views)
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Re: [flipper] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Even if he did cut away around 1000ft and had no RSL he still should have had a reserve above his head
In reply to:

The cutaway took place at appx 400ft

So you have evidence also that He didn't have an AAD???

C

Again my condolences.


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Jan 15, 2013, 9:41 AM)


ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:44 AM
Post #27 of 65 (3385 views)
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Re: [shorehambeach] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks Splat.

BSBD

My bad! , thanks to the level headed ones who double check everything in the world Blush...I took offense to the use of the word "Splat" in this thread without realizing it was someones username.

As someone who for the better part of 12 years extensivly traveled to accident scene's, dealing with family and friends, I am particurllaly sensitive to that word.

thank you Krisanne ! :)

C


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Jan 15, 2013, 10:19 AM)


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:45 AM
Post #28 of 65 (3383 views)
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Re: [flipper] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The cutaway took place at appx 400ft

Still should have opened!


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:50 AM
Post #29 of 65 (3380 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Thanks Splat.

BSBD

Your choice of words is inappropriate, I can't wait to meet you.
C

Psst... look at the user name of the person he's replying to.Unimpressed


Longbow1415  (D License)

Jan 15, 2013, 10:14 AM
Post #30 of 65 (3359 views)
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Re: [shorehambeach] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

A canopy transfer is just that, pulling the reserve and chopping the main as the freebag lifts off your back. Ill be honest, i did this back in the early 90's when testing a student SL rig ona DZ, the AAD kept firing the reserve..i tested it and yes it did so i chopped as i felt the pop of the reserve. However, this was a sluggish big student canopy and i was at about 3k, i think a transfer on a modern high performance kit could lead to serious problems. The secret is dont pull low and get off any problem high using correct drills. We need to remember that under a main spiraling hard, height is rapidly lost and decisions need to be made in a few seconds.


(This post was edited by Longbow1415 on Jan 15, 2013, 10:18 AM)


splat123  (C License)

Jan 15, 2013, 11:09 AM
Post #31 of 65 (3312 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Not really a good place for my user name Unsure Sorry if it caused upset or embarrassment.

Kev


flipper  (D 11524)

Jan 15, 2013, 11:35 AM
Post #32 of 65 (3287 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Please ref my earlier post regarding AAD


shorehambeach  (C License)

Jan 15, 2013, 12:03 PM
Post #33 of 65 (3258 views)
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Re: [ChrisD Longbow] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Chris - no problems. fully understood your initial reaction Blue Skies.

Longbow - thanks for the post and information.
If this jump took place at the reported 3000ft then thats only just above my hard deck.

'The secret is dont pull low and get off any problem high using correct drills. We need to remember that under a main spiraling hard, height is rapidly lost and decisions need to be made in a few seconds.'


(This post was edited by shorehambeach on Jan 15, 2013, 12:12 PM)


irishrigger  (D 297)

Jan 16, 2013, 12:32 AM
Post #34 of 65 (3095 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

if the cutaway occured at around 400 feet as stated, i would agree with john sherman that it is enough time for the reserve to come out at least.
can anyone confirm if the reserve was pulled? did the reserve pilot chute come out? was there any part of the reserve that was deploying?


nigel99  (D 1)

Jan 16, 2013, 12:56 AM
Post #35 of 65 (3083 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
if the cutaway occured at around 400 feet as stated, i would agree with john sherman that it is enough time for the reserve to come out at least.
can anyone confirm if the reserve was pulled? did the reserve pilot chute come out? was there any part of the reserve that was deploying?

Just to point out something that both you and John know, but are probably forgetting. There was no RSL so cutaway at 400 foot, tells us nothing about when the reserve deployment was initiated (if at all)


ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 16, 2013, 8:10 AM
Post #36 of 65 (2934 views)
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Re: [splat123] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not really a good place for my user name Unsure Sorry if it caused upset or embarrassment.

Kev

It's actually kind of a cute name. My apologies mate!

This as Flipper has pointed out is a tough one....


Sad day for everyone, I'm trying to learn from this as everyone else is as well...
C


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Jan 22, 2013, 9:57 AM
Post #37 of 65 (2471 views)
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Re: [humanflite] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It seems he was jumping a new rig with a new sabre 2 in it going on FB profile (pics from mid december 2012)

If a new rig, then I wonder if a 'stiff' cutaway might have been a factor in him apparently leaving it so late.

I have a friend who tried and failed to cut away from line twists when jumping a new Javelin. Fortunately the twists eventually cleared and she was able to land normally, but of course it was a frightening experience. On the ground she concluded that she'd been trying to pull the cutaway pad without first peeling it, and the brand new velcro had such a good grip that she'd been physically unable to do it.


Abedy  (D 10153)

Jan 22, 2013, 10:30 AM
Post #38 of 65 (2447 views)
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Re: [MikeJD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't need to be a new velcro. My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together. Small movements, pressure by accidental touching etc make the tiny hooks work themselves deeper and deeper into the soft velcro counterparts.

P.S.: Not too easy to express in English for a furreiner so please bear with me. Wink


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 22, 2013, 5:20 PM
Post #39 of 65 (2281 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It doesn't need to be a new velcro. My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together. Small movements, pressure by accidental touching etc make the tiny hooks work themselves deeper and deeper into the soft velcro counterparts.

P.S.: Not too easy to express in English for a furreiner so please bear with me. Wink

No need to "bear with you," you put it very well.

The phrase we use it that the velcro "Takes a set."


piisfish

Jan 23, 2013, 12:53 AM
Post #40 of 65 (2168 views)
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Re: [MikeJD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have a friend who tried and failed to cut away from line twists when jumping a new Javelin. Fortunately the twists eventually cleared and she was able to land normally, but of course it was a frightening experience. On the ground she concluded that she'd been trying to pull the cutaway pad without first peeling it, and the brand new velcro had such a good grip that she'd been physically unable to do it.
this is 1st jump course material Unimpressed


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Jan 23, 2013, 1:16 AM
Post #41 of 65 (2182 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have a friend who tried and failed to cut away from line twists when jumping a new Javelin. Fortunately the twists eventually cleared and she was able to land normally, but of course it was a frightening experience. On the ground she concluded that she'd been trying to pull the cutaway pad without first peeling it, and the brand new velcro had such a good grip that she'd been physically unable to do it.
this is 1st jump course material Unimpressed

Indeed - but worth repeating, since it had been a long time since her first jump course. Perhaps she'd somehow mentally altered her cutaway drills in the meantime. Perhaps she didn't react the way she'd expected to in her first emergency.


piisfish

Jan 23, 2013, 2:29 AM
Post #42 of 65 (2147 views)
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Re: [MikeJD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

reason why it is good to have refreshers every once in a while, and that things like "safety day" is important, even if you have "lots" of jumps...


freeflynick  (D 24960)

Jan 23, 2013, 8:55 AM
Post #43 of 65 (2004 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a TS Tear Drop Superfly like the one used on the jump in question. Mine is older (approx. 13 years old) so materials may have changed.....
The pop top on my Superfly is made of aluminium, and is therefore quite heavy. I have been told that in low speed reserve deployments the pop top/PC could drop BELOW you due to the weight, before catching air and going up to pull the D-bag off your back.
I have yet to use the reserve so have no experience of this, but I can tell you that the pop top on MY rig is heavy, and I can picture this scenario happening.
This could POSSIBLY be a factor in this IF the Superfly is still using the heavy pop tops.

But my condolences go out to all those at Strathallan - I jumped there for many years, and have many fond memories.....


flipper  (D 11524)

Jan 23, 2013, 10:57 AM
Post #44 of 65 (1928 views)
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Re: [freeflynick] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Nick, Ill pass on your condolences - PM sent


Mac  (C 101464)

Jan 24, 2013, 5:28 AM
Post #45 of 65 (1673 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.


(This post was edited by Mac on Jan 24, 2013, 5:29 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 24, 2013, 9:39 AM
Post #46 of 65 (1576 views)
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Re: [Mac] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.

Doesn't that wear the Velcro out possibly making the handles looser than needed?


JackC1

Jan 24, 2013, 11:48 AM
Post #47 of 65 (1494 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.

Doesn't that wear the Velcro out possibly making the handles looser than needed?

My feeling is that it is better to peel and know they haven't taken a set, even if it does mean you need to replace the Velcro periodically, than find out you have a problem at 1500ft doing 120mph.


Mac  (C 101464)

Jan 28, 2013, 7:06 AM
Post #48 of 65 (1159 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.

Doesn't that wear the Velcro out possibly making the handles looser than needed?

Not particularly....


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 28, 2013, 7:44 AM
Post #49 of 65 (1132 views)
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Re: [JackC1] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.

Doesn't that wear the Velcro out possibly making the handles looser than needed?

My feeling is that it is better to peel and know they haven't taken a set, even if it does mean you need to replace the Velcro periodically, than find out you have a problem at 1500ft doing 120mph.

Mine has never 'taken a set'...I do pull both handles at repack time and they've always worked as designed.

If you find yourself at 1500' doing 120 mph you are likely only going for the reserve, if your reserve handle is a small soft type that doesn't give you easy leverage...you know why I use an actual metal ripcord. Wink

With the rise of articulated harnesses the handles tend to lay flatter against the chest, finding smaller ones & having the peel-pull leverage shouldn't be a problem if they are big enough and the amount of Velcro isn't excessive...in other words designed in ease of operation.

Your gear should work right fresh from the factory, if you need to peel the handles at the start of every jump day to insure it hasn't 'set' something doesn't sound right.

IF it makes you feel better then by all means go for it, but do keep in mind that hook n' pile closures DO wear out through use.
You'll want to keep an eye on that and have it replaced when weakening.

Peeling the handles at the start of every jump day can average 75-100 times a year, eventually that will make a difference and is somewhat unnecessary wear IMO.

I'm curious, how many of you guys that peel handles regularly...leave the main pilot-chute in the pouch when not jumping?


humanflite  (D 99999)

Jan 28, 2013, 11:52 AM
Post #50 of 65 (989 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

I peel my handles (both pads) about once a month or when I remember..
Not every jump day, as airtwardo says that is just causing unnecessary wear. But I like to know that my velcro hasn't taken too much of a grip!


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