Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Fatality- Strathallan- 2013

 


HUPRA  (D 5203)

Jan 5, 2013, 6:58 PM
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Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 Can't Post

Not much information on this incident as yet, condolences to the family.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-20924580


fcajump  (D 15598)

Jan 5, 2013, 7:02 PM
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Re: [HUPRA] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...ide-central-20924580

condolences.




irishrigger  (D 297)

Jan 6, 2013, 6:28 AM
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Re: [cielchic] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

from what i hear it was a hop and pop, he had line twist and cut away very low. i am not sure if the reserve was pulled, or if it had enough time to open.


babz  (C 107663)

Jan 6, 2013, 11:16 AM
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like what the Daily Fail are reporting..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...fails-open-jump.html

Condolences to his family and friends.


smokeypete  (C 37374)

Jan 7, 2013, 10:52 AM
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Re: [babz] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Does anyone know if he had an AAD?

Again, condolences


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jan 7, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Re: [smokeypete] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Low cutaway from linetwists is not the arena for an AAD.
From an earlier post:
Quote:
he had line twist and cut away very low. i am not sure if the reserve was pulled, or if it had enough time to open.

Not sure what you're looking for in light of this, out of this question.

What if he did?


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Jan 7, 2013, 11:57 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 7, 2013, 2:55 PM
Post #8 of 65 (6398 views)
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Re: [smokeypete] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

>Does anyone know if he had an AAD?

It likely did not matter. Experience has shown that cutaways from below about 1200 feet will not give AAD's enough time/airspeed to fire. An RSL can make the difference in such situations.


humanflite  (D 99999)

Jan 8, 2013, 6:09 AM
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Re: [billvon] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>Does anyone know if he had an AAD?

It likely did not matter. Experience has shown that cutaways from below about 1200 feet will not give AAD's enough time/airspeed to fire. An RSL can make the difference in such situations.

Makes a lot of sense.
It seems he was jumping a new rig with a new sabre 2 in it going on FB profile (pics from mid december 2012)

http://www.facebook.com/...p;type=3&theater

the rig was a Teardrop superfly by the look of it which do not have an RSL.

Very sad. BSBD David and condolences to your family


rifleman  (Student)

Jan 8, 2013, 5:29 PM
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Re: [humanflite] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

TSE Superfly's do use a Stevenson Lanyard. Attached is a diagram from the superfly user manual showing the installation.
Attachments: sf_rsl.jpg (130 KB)


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jan 8, 2013, 6:21 PM
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Re: [rifleman] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
TSE Superfly's do use a Stevenson Lanyard. Attached is a diagram from the superfly user manual showing the installation.

The photo posted of the jumper seems to indicate that there is no rsl on his rig.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jan 8, 2013, 9:04 PM
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Re: [Remster] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
TSE Superfly's do use a Stevenson Lanyard. Attached is a diagram from the superfly user manual showing the installation.

The photo posted of the jumper seems to indicate that there is no rsl on his rig.

The RSL configuration on a Teardrop is horrible. I really don't like the way that the RSL pulls the reserve cable 'upwards'.

Does anybody know how high the hop and pop was from, wingloading etc?


humanflite  (D 99999)

Jan 9, 2013, 1:26 PM
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Re: [rifleman] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
TSE Superfly's do use a Stevenson Lanyard. Attached is a diagram from the superfly user manual showing the installation.

I should have said they don't come with an RSL as standard. And the one in the picture above doesn't have one. TSE can add one, but it's a gnarly looking setup... (superb rigs though. I've had two. Neither had an RSL)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jan 13, 2013, 8:56 AM
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Re: [humanflite] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see that his rig has a D-ring reserve handle, very easy to grab and pull, as opposed to the soft handles. Do you think he "free fell to get stable" after cutting away? Or had trouble finding the handle?

With 100 jumps under his belt, he may not have ever had a cutaway before. Does anyone know how he was trained?

We train "find both handles, grab both handles, arch, cutaway, pull reserve".
Many places train "two hands, cutaway, find reserve, two hands, pull reserve." We all know that when you cutaway and drop back into freefall, it can get weird. Already having a good grip on your reserve handle can be a real lifesaver.

Once again, an RSL could have saved a life. I wish more people would consider using them.

My condolences to friends and family left behind. Unsure


(This post was edited by JohnMitchell on Jan 13, 2013, 8:57 AM)


flipper  (D 11524)

Jan 14, 2013, 1:52 AM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Does anyone know how he was trained? - AFF @ Spanish DZ

No RSL fitted
Vigil AAD in place


ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 14, 2013, 9:02 AM
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Re: [Remster] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
TSE Superfly's do use a Stevenson Lanyard. Attached is a diagram from the superfly user manual showing the installation.

The photo posted of the jumper seems to indicate that there is no rsl on his rig.

My Condolances,...


Ditto the very sad pictures,...There is plainly visable the RSL tab from his student AFF pictures, however can someone find a recent picture proving yes/no??
C


babz  (C 107663)

Jan 14, 2013, 9:43 AM
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Re: [ChrisD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

The link humanflight posted to Facebook shows him at the DZ 15th Dec 2012, which I believe is the one they are referring too.


flipper  (D 11524)

Jan 15, 2013, 12:36 AM
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Re: [ChrisD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

I can confirm that there was no RSL fitted to the rig


gregpso  (Student)

Jan 15, 2013, 2:05 AM
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Re: [flipper] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

No RSL fitted to rig.. Enough said. Tragic Horrible news


(This post was edited by billvon on Jan 15, 2013, 8:35 AM)




Longbow1415  (D License)

Jan 15, 2013, 4:17 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

I just think we have more to come from this sad tale. Even if he did cut away around 1000ft and had no RSL he still should have had a reserve above his head in time. I think the comment trying to get stable before pulling his reserve may be a big factor here. Also what about a canopy transfer, risky i appreciate but at super low level its a good option...if you know what you are doing.


shorehambeach  (C License)

Jan 15, 2013, 5:14 AM
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Re: [Longbow1415] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Longbow.

Noob question - whats a canopy transfer ?


splat123  (C License)

Jan 15, 2013, 7:23 AM
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Re: [shorehambeach] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Longbow.

Noob question - whats a canopy transfer ?

Think he is referring to opening reserve under malfunctioning main. Then cutting away main after (or landing both), generally most think it's a bad idea.
But could save you in worst case situation.

Condolences to all involved.


(This post was edited by splat123 on Jan 15, 2013, 7:28 AM)


flipper  (D 11524)

Jan 15, 2013, 7:24 AM
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Re: [Longbow1415] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Even if he did cut away around 1000ft and had no RSL he still should have had a reserve above his head
In reply to:

The cutaway took place at appx 400ft


shorehambeach  (C License)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:27 AM
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Re: [splat123] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Splat123.

BSBD


(This post was edited by shorehambeach on Jan 15, 2013, 12:07 PM)


ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:40 AM
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Re: [flipper] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Even if he did cut away around 1000ft and had no RSL he still should have had a reserve above his head
In reply to:

The cutaway took place at appx 400ft

So you have evidence also that He didn't have an AAD???

C

Again my condolences.


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Jan 15, 2013, 9:41 AM)


ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:44 AM
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Re: [shorehambeach] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks Splat.

BSBD

My bad! , thanks to the level headed ones who double check everything in the world Blush...I took offense to the use of the word "Splat" in this thread without realizing it was someones username.

As someone who for the better part of 12 years extensivly traveled to accident scene's, dealing with family and friends, I am particurllaly sensitive to that word.

thank you Krisanne ! :)

C


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Jan 15, 2013, 10:19 AM)


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:45 AM
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Re: [flipper] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The cutaway took place at appx 400ft

Still should have opened!


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jan 15, 2013, 9:50 AM
Post #29 of 65 (3378 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Thanks Splat.

BSBD

Your choice of words is inappropriate, I can't wait to meet you.
C

Psst... look at the user name of the person he's replying to.Unimpressed


Longbow1415  (D License)

Jan 15, 2013, 10:14 AM
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Re: [shorehambeach] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

A canopy transfer is just that, pulling the reserve and chopping the main as the freebag lifts off your back. Ill be honest, i did this back in the early 90's when testing a student SL rig ona DZ, the AAD kept firing the reserve..i tested it and yes it did so i chopped as i felt the pop of the reserve. However, this was a sluggish big student canopy and i was at about 3k, i think a transfer on a modern high performance kit could lead to serious problems. The secret is dont pull low and get off any problem high using correct drills. We need to remember that under a main spiraling hard, height is rapidly lost and decisions need to be made in a few seconds.


(This post was edited by Longbow1415 on Jan 15, 2013, 10:18 AM)


splat123  (C License)

Jan 15, 2013, 11:09 AM
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Re: [ChrisD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Not really a good place for my user name Unsure Sorry if it caused upset or embarrassment.

Kev


flipper  (D 11524)

Jan 15, 2013, 11:35 AM
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Re: [ChrisD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Please ref my earlier post regarding AAD


shorehambeach  (C License)

Jan 15, 2013, 12:03 PM
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Re: [ChrisD Longbow] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Chris - no problems. fully understood your initial reaction Blue Skies.

Longbow - thanks for the post and information.
If this jump took place at the reported 3000ft then thats only just above my hard deck.

'The secret is dont pull low and get off any problem high using correct drills. We need to remember that under a main spiraling hard, height is rapidly lost and decisions need to be made in a few seconds.'


(This post was edited by shorehambeach on Jan 15, 2013, 12:12 PM)


irishrigger  (D 297)

Jan 16, 2013, 12:32 AM
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Re: [JohnSherman] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

if the cutaway occured at around 400 feet as stated, i would agree with john sherman that it is enough time for the reserve to come out at least.
can anyone confirm if the reserve was pulled? did the reserve pilot chute come out? was there any part of the reserve that was deploying?


nigel99  (D 1)

Jan 16, 2013, 12:56 AM
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
if the cutaway occured at around 400 feet as stated, i would agree with john sherman that it is enough time for the reserve to come out at least.
can anyone confirm if the reserve was pulled? did the reserve pilot chute come out? was there any part of the reserve that was deploying?

Just to point out something that both you and John know, but are probably forgetting. There was no RSL so cutaway at 400 foot, tells us nothing about when the reserve deployment was initiated (if at all)


ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 16, 2013, 8:10 AM
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Re: [splat123] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not really a good place for my user name Unsure Sorry if it caused upset or embarrassment.

Kev

It's actually kind of a cute name. My apologies mate!

This as Flipper has pointed out is a tough one....


Sad day for everyone, I'm trying to learn from this as everyone else is as well...
C


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Jan 22, 2013, 9:57 AM
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Re: [humanflite] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It seems he was jumping a new rig with a new sabre 2 in it going on FB profile (pics from mid december 2012)

If a new rig, then I wonder if a 'stiff' cutaway might have been a factor in him apparently leaving it so late.

I have a friend who tried and failed to cut away from line twists when jumping a new Javelin. Fortunately the twists eventually cleared and she was able to land normally, but of course it was a frightening experience. On the ground she concluded that she'd been trying to pull the cutaway pad without first peeling it, and the brand new velcro had such a good grip that she'd been physically unable to do it.


Abedy  (D 10153)

Jan 22, 2013, 10:30 AM
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Re: [MikeJD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't need to be a new velcro. My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together. Small movements, pressure by accidental touching etc make the tiny hooks work themselves deeper and deeper into the soft velcro counterparts.

P.S.: Not too easy to express in English for a furreiner so please bear with me. Wink


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 22, 2013, 5:20 PM
Post #39 of 65 (2279 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It doesn't need to be a new velcro. My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together. Small movements, pressure by accidental touching etc make the tiny hooks work themselves deeper and deeper into the soft velcro counterparts.

P.S.: Not too easy to express in English for a furreiner so please bear with me. Wink

No need to "bear with you," you put it very well.

The phrase we use it that the velcro "Takes a set."


piisfish

Jan 23, 2013, 12:53 AM
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Re: [MikeJD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have a friend who tried and failed to cut away from line twists when jumping a new Javelin. Fortunately the twists eventually cleared and she was able to land normally, but of course it was a frightening experience. On the ground she concluded that she'd been trying to pull the cutaway pad without first peeling it, and the brand new velcro had such a good grip that she'd been physically unable to do it.
this is 1st jump course material Unimpressed


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Jan 23, 2013, 1:16 AM
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Re: [piisfish] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have a friend who tried and failed to cut away from line twists when jumping a new Javelin. Fortunately the twists eventually cleared and she was able to land normally, but of course it was a frightening experience. On the ground she concluded that she'd been trying to pull the cutaway pad without first peeling it, and the brand new velcro had such a good grip that she'd been physically unable to do it.
this is 1st jump course material Unimpressed

Indeed - but worth repeating, since it had been a long time since her first jump course. Perhaps she'd somehow mentally altered her cutaway drills in the meantime. Perhaps she didn't react the way she'd expected to in her first emergency.


piisfish

Jan 23, 2013, 2:29 AM
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Re: [MikeJD] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

reason why it is good to have refreshers every once in a while, and that things like "safety day" is important, even if you have "lots" of jumps...


freeflynick  (D 24960)

Jan 23, 2013, 8:55 AM
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a TS Tear Drop Superfly like the one used on the jump in question. Mine is older (approx. 13 years old) so materials may have changed.....
The pop top on my Superfly is made of aluminium, and is therefore quite heavy. I have been told that in low speed reserve deployments the pop top/PC could drop BELOW you due to the weight, before catching air and going up to pull the D-bag off your back.
I have yet to use the reserve so have no experience of this, but I can tell you that the pop top on MY rig is heavy, and I can picture this scenario happening.
This could POSSIBLY be a factor in this IF the Superfly is still using the heavy pop tops.

But my condolences go out to all those at Strathallan - I jumped there for many years, and have many fond memories.....


flipper  (D 11524)

Jan 23, 2013, 10:57 AM
Post #44 of 65 (1926 views)
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Re: [freeflynick] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Nick, Ill pass on your condolences - PM sent


Mac  (C 101464)

Jan 24, 2013, 5:28 AM
Post #45 of 65 (1671 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.


(This post was edited by Mac on Jan 24, 2013, 5:29 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 24, 2013, 9:39 AM
Post #46 of 65 (1574 views)
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Re: [Mac] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.

Doesn't that wear the Velcro out possibly making the handles looser than needed?


JackC1

Jan 24, 2013, 11:48 AM
Post #47 of 65 (1492 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.

Doesn't that wear the Velcro out possibly making the handles looser than needed?

My feeling is that it is better to peel and know they haven't taken a set, even if it does mean you need to replace the Velcro periodically, than find out you have a problem at 1500ft doing 120mph.


Mac  (C 101464)

Jan 28, 2013, 7:06 AM
Post #48 of 65 (1157 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.

Doesn't that wear the Velcro out possibly making the handles looser than needed?

Not particularly....


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 28, 2013, 7:44 AM
Post #49 of 65 (1130 views)
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Re: [JackC1] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
My rigger told me to - "now and then - carefully peel the cutaway pad as velcros seem to tend to get more and more "stickier" the longer the parts are together.

I was taught, and I still do this as part of my preperation ritual , to peel both handles at the start of the jumping day.

Doesn't that wear the Velcro out possibly making the handles looser than needed?

My feeling is that it is better to peel and know they haven't taken a set, even if it does mean you need to replace the Velcro periodically, than find out you have a problem at 1500ft doing 120mph.

Mine has never 'taken a set'...I do pull both handles at repack time and they've always worked as designed.

If you find yourself at 1500' doing 120 mph you are likely only going for the reserve, if your reserve handle is a small soft type that doesn't give you easy leverage...you know why I use an actual metal ripcord. Wink

With the rise of articulated harnesses the handles tend to lay flatter against the chest, finding smaller ones & having the peel-pull leverage shouldn't be a problem if they are big enough and the amount of Velcro isn't excessive...in other words designed in ease of operation.

Your gear should work right fresh from the factory, if you need to peel the handles at the start of every jump day to insure it hasn't 'set' something doesn't sound right.

IF it makes you feel better then by all means go for it, but do keep in mind that hook n' pile closures DO wear out through use.
You'll want to keep an eye on that and have it replaced when weakening.

Peeling the handles at the start of every jump day can average 75-100 times a year, eventually that will make a difference and is somewhat unnecessary wear IMO.

I'm curious, how many of you guys that peel handles regularly...leave the main pilot-chute in the pouch when not jumping?


humanflite  (D 99999)

Jan 28, 2013, 11:52 AM
Post #50 of 65 (987 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

I peel my handles (both pads) about once a month or when I remember..
Not every jump day, as airtwardo says that is just causing unnecessary wear. But I like to know that my velcro hasn't taken too much of a grip!




Premier Remster  (C License)

Jan 29, 2013, 6:43 AM
Post #52 of 65 (1718 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

As she pulling, or peeling?


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 29, 2013, 8:23 AM
Post #53 of 65 (1683 views)
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Re: [Remster] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is she pulling, or peeling?

*mods may want to branch this this discussion to general, but it's a valuable one.

~ I think that highlights the need to be completely familiar with your gear and commit to training your muscle memory for fast & proper utilization.

First instinct for many is to grab & 'panic' pull the handle, when/if it doesn't activate as expected the dreaded 'oh shit' confusion begins.

Some take a heartbeat to figure out what's happening, some pull & jerk like mad - hopefully eventually working it free.

Back in the dark ages, most all rigs came with a reserve ripcord & a larger more solid 'pud' with minimal Velcro on the release. Some rigs didn't use Velcro at all but instead had a spring steel 'tabs' that held the pud in a pocket, others had ripcord handles on both.

The handles were easy to use but with the popularity of door jam exits for big-ways, CReW wraps and subsequently FF - handles were occasionally getting activated inadvertently.

'Low profile' became the norm...smaller, flatter and a bit more positively secured. That did away with a lot of the floating handles & accidental pulls, but created a situation in which one must be well versed in how to correctly pull them.

Where a hard yank use to work, it now necessitated the 'peel & pull' procedure taught but probably not practiced enough.

I think it's important for newer jumpers to look at & understand how their handles are attached. How peeling the hook & loop from the bottom to the top quickly & easily frees up the handle. And that although the cable channels run downward, the handles don't have to be pulled with a strictly downward motion.

A newer jumper with a B license I was kind of mentoring not long ago was under the impression that releasing the main was a multi-step operation...

...Look at the handle, peel the Velcro with an in-board push & peel, then when the handle is free pull it 'straight down' to release.

I demonstrated a quicker one fluid motion way - grab the handle, angle the wrist back peeling it off & punch it out hard.

Once he understood the how's & why's, practiced it for a while...he was a lot more comfortable & confident regarding the cut-away procedure.

I know this is basic stuff for the old hands but something the n00bs might want to take a look at and file away in their toolbox.


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Jan 29, 2013, 8:45 AM
Post #54 of 65 (1670 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
never been shown exactly how much force is required to actually pull that red handle.

The force required to pull "The Red Handle" is variable depending upon the loading and further dependant to the large vs. small 3-Ring.
The mechanical advantage of the small 3-ring set is 30 to 1 and the large 3 ring is 80 to 1. This advantage is realized at the loop, not at the red handle. The effort to pull the red handle and thus the cable from the loop is about 1 to 1 when the loop load is under 10 pounds. When the load exceeds 10 pounds the relationship changes to where at 20 pounds it takes about 40 pounds to pull it. On a graph this is dramatic.

Lubrication of the cable is paramount.
The Yellow cable is Nylon coated and must be lubricated every 30 days or you will not be able to pull it. The Red coating found on some rigs is Teflon and never needs lubrication.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 29, 2013, 10:01 AM
Post #55 of 65 (1635 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The Yellow cable is Nylon coated and must be lubricated every 30 days or you will not be able to pull it.

"Will not be able to pull it" is a little bit of an exaggeration I think. I know of lots of cutaways on sport (mini rings usually) and tandem gear that occur yearly where the owners do not oil the cables except at their repacks and yet they are able to pull the handles with little effort. In multiple foreign counties with year long repack cycles that have cutaways that occur deep into the repack cycle without lubrication occurring in between repacks. It is advised to regularly lubricate the cables but saying if you don't you will not be able to cutaway is not correct.


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Jan 29, 2013, 2:01 PM
Post #56 of 65 (1556 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

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"Will not be able to pull it" is a little bit of an exaggeration I think.

I am astounded that a moderator would poo pa a reccomendation from a manufacturer. Especially one dealing with such a signifficant safety measure.

I have been there. I have had a no-cutaway because of a non lubricated cable. I have tested the absorbition rate of the cable. Nylon is hydroscopic and as such oil dries out within 30 days. Many people get away without intentionally lubricating the cable. This occurs because they wipe the thick black goop off of the cable from time to time. This action effectively lubricates the cable because that black goop is the residue from the cutting oil used in the housing manufacturing process.

Keep the cable lubricated! It is better to be safe than stupid. If the cable feels and squeeks like your hair after a shampoo, when you pull it between your fingers it is too dry, oil it.




popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 29, 2013, 10:22 PM
Post #58 of 65 (1448 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

Whoa, John...he wasn't poo pa'ing (I'm trying not to laugh at that) your recommendation for lubrication.

Just the absolute statement, "You will not be able to pull it'.

A better statement could have been along the lines of, "The pull forces will be much higher...maybe even to the point of not being able to pull at all.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Jan 29, 2013, 10:23 PM)


unkulunkulu  (C License)

Jan 30, 2013, 1:53 AM
Post #59 of 65 (1414 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

So the Murphy's law is not respected among skydivers? Weird.






Freeflysmiley  (C License)

Feb 1, 2013, 5:41 AM
Post #62 of 65 (911 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

To go back to the incident in question.
Yes a standard RSL may not of helped at 400ft, but it might of.
A skyhook may of helped more.

A 100 jumper should really have an RSL. The RSL debate should come at higher experience


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Feb 1, 2013, 12:50 PM
Post #63 of 65 (769 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Fatality- Strathallan- 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

>I am astounded that a moderator would poo pa a reccomendation from a manufacturer.

No worries about a recommendation; keeping your cables clean and lubricated is indeed an excellent idea. However it is not true that "you will not be able to pull it" so that clarification is in order.







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