Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Katana 120.... Next step?

 

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sparkie  (D License)

Jan 8, 2013, 8:39 AM
Post #26 of 44 (2200 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am getting to the point where I want more speed from my canopy and wanted to get some opinions on what should be my next step.

I am currently loading my KA120 at a shade under 1.7 and doing 180s (pretty much nailed them) and 270s (still needs work on consistency). I don't do anything other than canopy work (no work jumps etc so that's not a consideration).

PD recommend a VE103 as the recovery arc/ sight picture is apparently similar, and I like the idea of having a little more bottom end flare. However I wondered if at that WL (about 1.9) I might better with a KA107 until I can get to the VE96.

I will make this move when my 270s are consistent, not before, so really just looking for answers on a 1.9 loading on a VE103 vs a KA107.

Thanks.

Velo, better openings. Katana opens okay usually, but my experience is that when it turns on opening it tends to be snappy. Front riser pressure on the velo is much higher than the katana though.

Maybe better though to put some more on your current katana and do larger rotations, 270's for instance (i never liked the 180 safety wise) That way you get more speed on a canopy thats familiar.

Then after, go to a velo wl ~2,5 in stages.

fyi, in my country (netherlands) one must have 1000 jumps to go on a velo and 700 to go to a katana. While i felt that the 700 for the katana was a bit rich by 100 jumps, i didnt feel ready for a velo or comparable canopy till just around 1000 jumps. But i started to seriously focus on canopy flying only around 300-400 jumps or so. Then i started doing almost exclusively hop and pops to focus on swooping.

Take care.

And yes the velo (as are lost of other cb's) is nice, im guessing if you try it to take care of the itch as you say, you will not want to jump non crossbraced after ;)


(This post was edited by sparkie on Jan 8, 2013, 8:48 AM)


Fast  (D 28237)

Jan 8, 2013, 9:57 AM
Post #27 of 44 (2189 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks, mate.

The plan is to stick with this wing for some time now and get coaching.

I am itching to jump Velo, and I may well borrow one for a couple of jumps to scratch that itch, but in terms of long term gain it seems that building up my consistency on the 120 is going to be my best investment.

I started jumping Katanas at 150 jumps and have had a downsize in the middle there, so there is plenty more I can do.

My personal opinion is that borrowing one to "scratch the itch" isn't going to help you that much. The canopies fly different. Someone I know who was going back and forth some between a velo and a katana just got messed up pretty good. He was complicating things with different canopies/risers/rigs and still trying to learn to do stuff.

I dunno, just my opinion.


RichLees

Jan 8, 2013, 1:31 PM
Post #28 of 44 (2147 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"I am itching to jump Velo, and I may well borrow one for a couple of jumps to scratch that itch"

I bought one because it was cheap and, like you, I wanted to scratch the itch ... 20 jumps later, I knew I could never go back to the Katana and promptly sold it so I could get a newer Velo Wink


(This post was edited by RichLees on Jan 8, 2013, 1:32 PM)


DocPop  (C License)

Jan 8, 2013, 4:54 PM
Post #29 of 44 (2105 views)
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Re: [RichLees] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I bought one because it was cheap and, like you, I wanted to scratch the itch ... 20 jumps later, I knew I could never go back to the Katana and promptly sold it so I could get a newer Velo Wink

To you and the others who pointed out the same thing. I guess that is the risk. I actually know someone who just had the exact same experience as you - got a good deal and said it was going in the basement for another season or so and 2 weeks later was selling his Katana!

Looks like it could be an itchy season! Wink


matt002

Jan 9, 2013, 12:13 AM
Post #30 of 44 (2063 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would get a second hand katana 107, and then get your first velo in a 96.
The 103 is a big wing to try and throw around if your light, it's better suited for very heavy pilots. Lightly loaded, the openings are all over the place.


DocPop  (C License)

Jan 9, 2013, 7:36 AM
Post #31 of 44 (2017 views)
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Re: [matt002] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I would get a second hand katana 107, and then get your first velo in a 96.
The 103 is a big wing to try and throw around if your light, it's better suited for very heavy pilots. Lightly loaded, the openings are all over the place.

That seems to be a common theme. Thanks.






Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Jan 9, 2013, 6:25 PM
Post #34 of 44 (1910 views)
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Re: [Mr_Polite] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

Lets try and keep it constructive.


aaroncosbey  (D 108444)

Jan 10, 2013, 1:22 AM
Post #35 of 44 (1884 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

I went from a NEOS119 to a VE103 @ 2.1 and it was a perfect transition...

Im putting the 103 up for sale soon Wink


matt002

Jan 10, 2013, 5:12 AM
Post #36 of 44 (1845 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

For me, the best velo wingload/wing size combination was 2.2 on a VE96, best compromise of openings, speed, harness sensitivity,glide, and low end lift in zone acc. I found the 103 slow to react to harness input, longer snivel with more 'searching' and preferred the recovery of smaller velocities.


DocPop  (C License)

Aug 29, 2013, 5:46 PM
Post #37 of 44 (1269 views)
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Re: Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

To update this thread:

I bought a VE103 a couple of weeks ago and have been really enjoying it.

It wasn't what I had been expecting. It doesn't feel more of a handful than the KA120, if anything it feels more reliable.

I feel my turns have improved on this wing. I can start higher and keep it diving better than the KA, but when it comes time to assist the recovery arc it has so much more power on the rears than the Katana. After transitioning off the rears it keeps on going on the brakes and then shuts down really well.

I think I trust this wing more than the Katana. The response to both normal rear riser input and to emergency dive-arrest drills is so solid. I hate being low, but I feel like the VE gives me more confidence to really fly the wing to the ground knowing that the rears are so strong.

I'm only loading it at 1.9 and these are very much first impressions, but I think if someone is proficient on a KA then a correctly sized Velo is a good next transition.

It feels like a KA but with tightened up controls.


Bufobufo  (D License)

Aug 29, 2013, 11:39 PM
Post #38 of 44 (1222 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

That might be the best description I've read in a long time regarding transitioning to the velocity, it tells exactly what I felt when I was given the opportunity to try one.

I'm still in love with my KA135 and since I'm not into swooping I'll stick to this wing. Though.. I miss that bottom end the velo had and kinda regret ever trying one since now I know what I'm missing out on :P

Been following this thread and I'm glad u decided to try the x-braced approach and share your thoughts here. Thumbs up!


DocPop  (C License)

Aug 30, 2013, 6:35 AM
Post #39 of 44 (1127 views)
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Re: [Bufobufo] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks man.

I looked for a long time for some kind of description of what to expect when going to a "scary x-brace" and didn't find much. What I wrote is, of course, just my own opinion, but I hope it will give people about to make the change some idea of what to expect.

If you're heads up and in total control of your Katana, the right sized Velo shouldn't be a difficult move.

BTW, the "right" sizes are as follows from what I can gather:

Katana 120 --> Velo 103
Katana 107 --> Velo 96

I'm glad I didn't buy the KA107 as I had once planned, although I might have jumped one a few times if one had been available on my DZ.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 30, 2013, 7:01 AM
Post #40 of 44 (1113 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm glad I didn't buy the KA107 as I had once planned, although I might have jumped one a few times if one had been available on my DZ.

I loved the KA 107 at 1.7-1.8.

Just saying.


DocPop  (C License)

Aug 30, 2013, 7:34 AM
Post #41 of 44 (1097 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

ianmdrennan wrote:
Quote:
I'm glad I didn't buy the KA107 as I had once planned, although I might have jumped one a few times if one had been available on my DZ.

I loved the KA 107 at 1.7-1.8.

Just saying.

That's about where I would have been with a 107.

Question: if the KA107 translates to a VE96, does that mean that for a given jumper the KA107 is more aggressive than a VE103?


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 30, 2013, 7:42 AM
Post #42 of 44 (1092 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If the KA107 translates to a VE96,

I wouldn't make those comparisons, honestly. Such different animals.

I find the VE96 a chore at my loading, and far preferred the 90 at that time.


DocPop  (C License)

Aug 30, 2013, 8:17 AM
Post #43 of 44 (1070 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

ianmdrennan wrote:
Quote:
If the KA107 translates to a VE96,

I wouldn't make those comparisons, honestly. Such different animals.

I find the VE96 a chore at my loading, and far preferred the 90 at that time.

Thanks.

The above was going from what the PD Tour guys told me about the sensible way to move from a KA to a VE.

Good luck tomorrow!


Fast  (D 28237)

Sep 3, 2013, 10:20 AM
Post #44 of 44 (795 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Katana 120.... Next step? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think your summary is pretty reasonable.

I personally don't like the KA much at high wingloadings. I feel like it has all the "go fast" features of a velocity and none of the solidity and recovery features. It does open nice though. I think it's a good canopy at wingloadings that are less than I would want to be jumping a velocity at though.

Just my $0.02


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