Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
First hop n pop...a bit nervous!

 

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dthames  (B 37674)

Dec 19, 2012, 10:23 AM
Post #26 of 38 (884 views)
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Re: [jimmytavino] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
this used to work for us. at our club where EVRYone learned via the static line method...
( i'm talking Decades ago...)

increase exit altitude by 500 feet and suggest to the student,
that they "resist that initial urge to PULL" Shocked
Instead Finish what you started out, to DO. ..Smile

which is to throw a nice arch !!!Cool and feeel the relative wind as velocity increases.... Then... it WILL be time to pull.
We also used to suggest that the exiting jumper try their best to SEE the jumpmaster in the door, who will be smiling..... and waving to Them.

H & P's can be done at 3,200 to 3,500 feet... safely and successfully...
( hell , we'd get out at 2 grand... NO problem...Say, if the ceiling was low..ShockedCrazy.. of course Not students..Wink but ANY C or D license holder...)

When an exit is at 5 grand or 5,500 feet,,, is the spot adjusted as needed???

Should the jumper also be spotting?? ( albiet with guidence from an instructor) on these early H & Ps???..OR is that too many "targeted learning objectives" ??

Smile

I did SL training this year. I was "relaxed" when I knew I could do a poised exit off the C-182 step and go belly to earth, while feeling I was in control.

Previous freefalls had been more like, "You are not out of control, so don't mess that up...wait....wait, pull". While better than tumbling, I was not in full control. I was just sort of riding it out until pull time.

For AFFers, others have previously stated on several threads, "Exit at altitude and pull, until you are comfortable with doing it right. Then do your HnP".

For me I was ready (never actually had to do a HnP) when I knew on exit I would be in control.


antibac  (C License)

Dec 19, 2012, 1:00 PM
Post #27 of 38 (847 views)
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Re: [Lazarus_762] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

I was scared too before my first hop n pops. I practiced stable exits from altitude before I did them though.


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Dec 28, 2012, 1:16 PM
Post #28 of 38 (758 views)
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Re: [Lazarus_762] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

Have fun.....I love hop n pops well I should say I used to when they where $9 bucks. I bet I have 50-60 hop n pops. Lots of those are 2-3 way head down exits and several 4 way exits. My most favorite is to leave in a track (both back and belly) and see how far and long I can go befor 2200' best time for my fat as was 19 seconds that was 20 lbs ago though :) serious though they are super fun. You get to geek the camera in the door and freak out the tandems :) and you will be packed up and ready for the next load when it lands :)


Bignugget  (A License)

Dec 28, 2012, 4:14 PM
Post #29 of 38 (725 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

With 17 jumps I have to say I can markedly notice more and more awareness and recall of the jumps. Like Aviation, I had/have problems coming down the hill out of the plane. I would drop my arch and fall for a second until I settled stable, the videos were quite funny, but really not what I want.

Aviation explained it almost exactly how I would have. I had to start reducing my anxiety at exit, and focus on thinking through the steps I know I can complete.

I had an awesome coach do some drills with me on the ground to practice really feeling the arch right after GO, and she was so fun about it I felt a lot more relaxed after. We did 2 jumps after that lesson and on the second one I was so aware and stable coming off the plane I was sticking my tongue out at her on the hill. It made my day.

So I think for a new guy, Aviation explained it pretty damn well.

As for the Hop n Pop original topic, I plan to practice some more stable poised 10k exits first! Then I will be able to lend my half cent opinion, hah.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 28, 2012, 5:41 PM
Post #30 of 38 (714 views)
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Re: [Bignugget] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok..differing POV. Chicken - Egg

-The learning and practice gives more confidence which leads to a reduction in anxiety and more relaxation?
That has been my experience with students by far and away over the years.

-Reduce anxiety by focusing on tasks leading you to more relaxation? In my experience, this leads more often to performance anxiety and tenseness.

I guarantee you that most, if not all, students would get over the anxiety faster if they had no more tasks to do than arch.


In the big scheme of things, it doesn't matter how you got there. Congrats on finding a way through it. Kudos to your instructor that made the learning fun.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Dec 28, 2012, 5:49 PM)


dthames  (B 37674)

Dec 29, 2012, 1:49 AM
Post #31 of 38 (668 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

On this and similar threads it has been mentioned that you have plenty of time even on a low exit to be stable and deploy as you normally would. I agree and want to share a bit from yesterday.

Clouds came in and shut down high loads. 3000 foot HnP was available. I had done SL training and had never really done a low HnP. 3800 feet was the lowest previous jump and that was because clouds prevented us from getting higher. I wanted to have a bit lower exit to increase my experience range.

I fell for a good 5 seconds, or a bit more before deployment. All was well but I decided not to go as long the next time. The second HnP I only waited about 2 or 3 seconds and then pulled. I was very stable but not really belly to earth yet. As the lines were extending I knew the opening would be a bit different because I was sort of stood up already. I got to the snivel point and just paused wiith the slider all the way up. I shook and pulled on the rear risers a bit and it came on down.

Another jumper on the load said he sort of rushed it and he flipped through his risers on deployment.

In my case I felt that pulling sooner to be just a bit higher under canopy was actually counter productive, or very close to being counter productive as the snivel was so long.

I think I will make it a point to wait until I pivot over onto my belly(to earth) before deployment for all future HnPs.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Dec 29, 2012, 7:38 AM
Post #32 of 38 (649 views)
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Re: [dthames] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think I will make it a point to wait until I pivot over onto my belly(to earth) before deployment for all future HnPs.

Don't confuse "relative wind" to your body position relative to earth. As you leave the airplane, the relative wind is coming from the speed of the aircraft. As you accelerate towards the ground, that relative wind increases (you start to fall faster) and the direction changes.

I think your "snivel" might have been caused by a sub-terminal (slow) opening. This has nothing to do with, and should not be confused with, your relative position. Talk to your instructors about this... Cool


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 29, 2012, 1:02 PM
Post #33 of 38 (598 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I think I will make it a point to wait until I pivot over onto my belly(to earth) before deployment for all future HnPs.

Don't confuse "relative wind" to your body position relative to earth. As you leave the airplane, the relative wind is coming from the speed of the aircraft. As you accelerate towards the ground, that relative wind increases (you start to fall faster) and the direction changes.

I think your "snivel" might have been caused by a sub-terminal (slow) opening. This has nothing to do with, and should not be confused with, your relative position. Talk to your instructors about this... Cool
+1


dthames  (B 37674)

Dec 29, 2012, 7:32 PM
Post #34 of 38 (558 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I think I will make it a point to wait until I pivot over onto my belly(to earth) before deployment for all future HnPs.

Don't confuse "relative wind" to your body position relative to earth. As you leave the airplane, the relative wind is coming from the speed of the aircraft. As you accelerate towards the ground, that relative wind increases (you start to fall faster) and the direction changes.

I think your "snivel" might have been caused by a sub-terminal (slow) opening. This has nothing to do with, and should not be confused with, your relative position. Talk to your instructors about this... Cool

Maybe what I was trying to communicate was not clear. From a poised exit, belly into the relitive wind to belly to earth takes a view seconds and includes a 90 degree "pivot" as I would describe it, If you pull before that happens, you are very much sub-terminal.

I was trying to say, I would rather get up a bit more speed from now on.


riggerpaul  (D 28098)

Dec 29, 2012, 9:51 PM
Post #35 of 38 (538 views)
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Re: [dthames] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I think I will make it a point to wait until I pivot over onto my belly(to earth) before deployment for all future HnPs.

Don't confuse "relative wind" to your body position relative to earth. As you leave the airplane, the relative wind is coming from the speed of the aircraft. As you accelerate towards the ground, that relative wind increases (you start to fall faster) and the direction changes.

I think your "snivel" might have been caused by a sub-terminal (slow) opening. This has nothing to do with, and should not be confused with, your relative position. Talk to your instructors about this... Cool

Maybe what I was trying to communicate was not clear. From a poised exit, belly into the relitive wind to belly to earth takes a view seconds and includes a 90 degree "pivot" as I would describe it, If you pull before that happens, you are very much sub-terminal.

I was trying to say, I would rather get up a bit more speed from now on.

The hop'n'pop skill is about learning to work with your body in a sub-terminal condition.

Waiting for the attitude transition and higher airspeed defeats this goal.

Practice makes perfect.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 30, 2012, 5:26 AM
Post #36 of 38 (500 views)
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Re: [riggerpaul] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The hop'n'pop skill is about learning to work with your body in a sub-terminal condition.

Waiting for the attitude transition and higher airspeed defeats this goal.

Practice makes perfect.

Dan, THIS^^^

Me? I get a charge out of watching the deployment right out the door..."behind" you instead of "over" you.
One of my mental visions is of a funny car drag chute.
LaughLaugh

One time as I was watching, the bag spun and a line twist was getting started. I simply did a quick 360 turn while till on the hill and vertical...fixed it right up.


dthames  (B 37674)

Dec 30, 2012, 7:32 PM
Post #37 of 38 (456 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The hop'n'pop skill is about learning to work with your body in a sub-terminal condition.

Waiting for the attitude transition and higher airspeed defeats this goal.

Practice makes perfect.

Dan, THIS^^^

Me? I get a charge out of watching the deployment right out the door..."behind" you instead of "over" you.
One of my mental visions is of a funny car drag chute.
LaughLaugh

One time as I was watching, the bag spun and a line twist was getting started. I simply did a quick 360 turn while till on the hill and vertical...fixed it right up.

Andy, yes I have thought about the dragchute concept as well. But I have not tried it.
But speaking of turning during the deployment….A young man on one of those 3000 foot HnPs deployed right after exit. He thinks he twisted around with his back to the wind and I also think maybe his head a bit into the wind, like he was back-flying. He didn’t know what happened but his video showed the bag out in “front” of him, then his legs and feet going up between the lines, as he did a backflip through the risers.
He landed it okay. Another example of why a good stable position is needed.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 31, 2012, 4:33 PM
Post #38 of 38 (403 views)
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Re: [dthames] First hop n pop...a bit nervous! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Andy, yes I have thought about the dragchute concept as well. But I have not tried it.
But speaking of turning during the deployment….A young man on one of those 3000 foot HnPs deployed right after exit. He thinks he twisted around with his back to the wind....

That's young jumper flailing and it happens more than you would suspect.
LaughLaughWink

...and there's a reason why it happens but too many instructors and coaches are not willing to do things the safest way.


What I'm talking about was this...

Picture self belly-to-earth and doing a 360. Now visualize doing it soon after exit, on the hill, upright with feet-to-earth and the canopy deploying behind you.
Smile

I hope to get up there to see you guys this week.


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