Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
How often does line twist happen in student jumps

 


dpfire29

Nov 25, 2012, 11:34 AM
Post #1 of 33 (4793 views)
Shortcut
How often does line twist happen in student jumps Can't Post

After 3 tandoms i am starting aff, from watching vidoes and talking to diffrent people, it seems that line twist happens often in student jumps, seeing hoe the death rate is not off the charts it must be pretty easly corrected, any thoughts


julio_gyn  (A 705)

Nov 25, 2012, 12:07 PM
Post #2 of 33 (4692 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a few times in SL.. but no more than half twist on freefall rigs.. I think if you are stable on opening time, that won't happen in student canopies... let the more experienced say more...


dragon2  (D 101989)

Nov 25, 2012, 12:18 PM
Post #3 of 33 (4674 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

How often linetwists occur in student jumps is largely dependent on the type of jump being done. In AFF, you get the occasional linetwist. For certain types of static-line jumps, you get 1-in-3ish chances of linetwists.

Linetwists on student-type canopies are not that big a deal and you will be taught how to deal with them in your first jump course. Don't sweat it.


Karen89

Nov 25, 2012, 12:29 PM
Post #4 of 33 (4662 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dragon2] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

On my second IAD I had one line twist because I didn't arch (long story, learned my lesson) and it untwisted itself. With AFF you deploy higher so you have a longer time to fix your problem.

Though don't worry too much about malfunctions or you'll freak yourself out like I did. :) enjoy it!


dpfire29

Nov 25, 2012, 1:09 PM
Post #5 of 33 (4603 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Karen89] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks for the info, i have been spoiled by doing tandoms into thinking being stable will be no problem, but i no diffrent. really just trying to learn all i can because what i have experienced so far is just to addicting, love this sport just dont want to leave behind three kids doing it. thanks again


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Nov 25, 2012, 1:27 PM
Post #6 of 33 (4589 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Karen89] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
With AFF you deploy higher so you have a longer time to fix your problem.

That statement might be misleading for newbs... In AFF, you're falling at terminal. Static lines open lower because they never reach terminal (they are falling slower). EP working time might not be much different. Both methods are designed to give students ample time to deal with EP's, especially line twists.

Line twists are a simple problem to correct for. Don't sweat them, just go make a skydive and report back... have fun. Smile


Kalrigan  (B License)

Nov 25, 2012, 2:52 PM
Post #7 of 33 (4516 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjumpenfool] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I had 2 line twists on the way to get my Solo. Nothing serious, just kick yourself out of them.


FlyingRhenquest  (B 37920)

Nov 25, 2012, 4:42 PM
Post #8 of 33 (4442 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I never had one in AFF. I've had a couple since then, neither one very bad. They're easy to deal with, and not really a big deal at all.

One of our AFFs today had a line-over and had to cut away on his checkout jump. Now that'll get the ol' heart pumpin'!


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Nov 25, 2012, 7:00 PM
Post #9 of 33 (4342 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

It depends. On a freefall jump they don't happen too often. On IAD or static line they happen more. On a Direct Bag Static Line they happen a lot.

With rare exception, they aren't a major issue during student jumps. You should be high enough when you open that you have plenty of altitude to kick out of them and student canopies are big and docile. You won't go into a diving spin because of them like you would under a small, high performance canopy.

Getting out of them is not a big deal either. You kick and twist your body, along with reaching up and pushing the risers together and you will spin right out of them.

Make sure you discuss this with your instructors so that they can answer any questions or concerns you have.


dsemac91  (A 63513)

Nov 25, 2012, 7:39 PM
Post #10 of 33 (4314 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I just did my 32nd jump last week and I have yet to have a line twist! The worst I've had is half of a twist which undid its self!

I try to be as stable and well arched as possible while deploying. judging by most videos ive seen, a bad arch / instability will cause line twists


DivingWombat  (B License)

Nov 26, 2012, 2:24 AM
Post #11 of 33 (4253 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

This question came up a couple of times already. I can say based on my own experience, if a linetwist or even a couple of twists happening on a student canopy...THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO FEAR! After 5 or 10 seconds you're out of any possible twist.

There are a few other malfunctions you have to take serious. A linetwist on a student canopy is NOT a malfunction.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 26, 2012, 9:04 AM
Post #12 of 33 (4143 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I had line twists on my first (non-tandem) jump. Just kicked out, like I was taught.


(This post was edited by kallend on Nov 26, 2012, 9:04 AM)


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Nov 26, 2012, 9:43 AM
Post #13 of 33 (4117 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

Line twists occur as a result of asymmetrical body position, specifically when you drop a shoulder. This causes the air to spiral above you and when the bag is caught is the spiral you get bag rotation and line twists. The first rule of deployment is to keep your shoulders parallel to the ground. It is difficult to look over your shoulder and keep your shoulders level to the ground. That is why I teach; look up over your head to clear a burble or check your pilot chute.


RickieD  (Student)

Nov 26, 2012, 9:53 AM
Post #14 of 33 (4104 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I had two line twist during my AFF jumps, but not one in the last six...of course I only have 14 jumps total since I am a newby. So few posts I can respond to that I had to chime in on this one. Finally, something I understood...


chuteless  (D 41)

Nov 26, 2012, 10:14 AM
Post #15 of 33 (4082 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

It usually comes from not arching your body until you pull, which causes you to slowly turn, winding up the lines as they deploy.

I careless grab at the pilot chute would also allow the same thing.

REMEDY: Concentrate on getting the pilot chute and staying stable, not turning as you reach for it.

Be aware of your body, watch to see if you are beginning a turn as you reach.


jetbox  (Student)

Nov 28, 2012, 3:54 PM
Post #16 of 33 (3791 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

my first AFF jump I experienced line twist, did not require kicking to correct. I was spun around before I had time to pull apart the lines.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 28, 2012, 4:29 PM
Post #17 of 33 (3766 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

You've already got plenty of good answers but I'll tell you a little story.

I had line twists for 25 of my first 28 jumps. I was a spinner. Jump 29 the spinning and the line twists stopped and I have no clue as to what exactly made it stop.

The first 2 were S/L and the third was a 5-second delay....after that? Let's Twist Again, Like we did Last Summer.
LaughLaugh

I got to be an expert at getting out of line twists.
Wink
LaughLaugh


milehigheric  (C License)

Nov 29, 2012, 4:01 AM
Post #18 of 33 (3682 views)
Shortcut
Re: [popsjumper] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I have considered packing myself a line twist just to experience it... 47 jumps in, with half of them on my own gear and I have had nothing but clean openings. My canopy experience includes navigators and sabre 2s at less then 1.1 wl for your info.


Shredex

Nov 29, 2012, 4:57 AM
Post #19 of 33 (3667 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I've never had a line twist. Unless you count a 1/4 twist but that was because I dumped in a full track which isn't very wise.


nigel99  (D 1)

Nov 29, 2012, 4:31 PM
Post #20 of 33 (3585 views)
Shortcut
Re: [popsjumper] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You've already got plenty of good answers but I'll tell you a little story.

I had line twists for 25 of my first 28 jumps. I was a spinner. Jump 29 the spinning and the line twists stopped and I have no clue as to what exactly made it stop.

The first 2 were S/L and the third was a 5-second delay....after that? Let's Twist Again, Like we did Last Summer.
LaughLaugh

I got to be an expert at getting out of line twists.
Wink
LaughLaugh

You figured out you needed to put BOTH legstraps on ShockedLaugh


ctremie  (B 38308)

Nov 29, 2012, 4:48 PM
Post #21 of 33 (3587 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

Just got my A-lic and fiance and my brother, I has NONE, my fiance had 1, and my brother had 1 that was almost (180), a half twist,.


dthames  (B 37674)

Nov 30, 2012, 10:44 AM
Post #22 of 33 (3500 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a few line twists as a student and some afterwards as well. It seems your question has some concern or worry behind it.

For me, flying a student rig, I would find myself hanging under a perfectly inflated and properly flying canopy. I would do a quick look around to see if there was someone headed for me. After I knew I was in the in clear, I knew I could relax a bit. Students should be open high enough that you have time to fix a line twist and still make it back to your landing area without a problem. Unless something else is also wrong, there is not a lot of reason to get excited about a line twist.

You can kick your way out of a line twist and that is good practice. If you are flying straight without any spinning, if you just wait a few seconds, very often it will just untwist like you are on a twisted up swing.


linebckr83  (D 30571)

Nov 30, 2012, 11:46 AM
Post #23 of 33 (3483 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

Like they all said, at your stage it is all about symmetrical body position during deployment.

I will add this though: as you continue through your progression and begin packing for yourself, make sure you leave the proper amount of excess line between the last line stow and the risers. Too little line has shown to have a tendency to delay line stretch and the bag can get caught in your burble and rotate before continuing on its way.


dpfire29

Dec 3, 2012, 2:55 PM
Post #24 of 33 (3307 views)
Shortcut
Re: [milehigheric] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

i am not real educated on wl, i am 220 and 5,6 good amount of muscle but some fat also, i will be jumping a 260, could you help me understand this a little more please.


hillson  (D 33134)

Dec 3, 2012, 3:31 PM
Post #25 of 33 (3272 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I had one on student gear...jump 40ish before I had my own stuff. None since. Line twists were my one big fear during my student progression and a bit afterwards. Total nigt sweats Dunno why. When I finally had them the training kicked in and it was no big deal.

Good luck on your progression. :)


nigel99  (D 1)

Dec 3, 2012, 3:56 PM
Post #26 of 33 (849 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i am not real educated on wl, i am 220 and 5,6 good amount of muscle but some fat also, i will be jumping a 260, could you help me understand this a little more please.

There is quite a good explanation in the SIM (free download from the USPA). But basically it is your canopy size in square feet divided by your exit weight (you plus equipment and clothing) in pounds. So a 200 square foot canopy with a person who weighs 220 pounds is about 1.1:1 wing loading.

The recommendations in the sim are to stay at about 1:1 until 200 jumps (C license), then 1.2:1 until D license (500 jumps), and then a maximum of 1.4:1 unless you get further training. Many people choose to ignore the recommendations, but you tend to break less bones staying conservative...Laugh


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Dec 3, 2012, 4:00 PM
Post #27 of 33 (844 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dpfire29] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i am not real educated on wl, i am 220 and 5,6 good amount of muscle but some fat also, i will be jumping a 260, could you help me understand this a little more please.

Your instructors should go over wing loading as well as how to address line twists in your first jump course. Go to it with an open mind and ask a lot of questions - that will be your best source of information, not videos or the internets.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 3, 2012, 8:58 PM
Post #28 of 33 (810 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nigel99] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But basically it is your canopy size in square feet divided by your exit weight (you plus equipment and clothing) in pounds. So a 200 square foot canopy with a person who weighs 220 pounds is about 1.1:1 wing loading.


That would be exit weight in pounds per canopy size in sq.ft.

220 lbs divided by 200 sq ft. = 1.1


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Dec 3, 2012, 8:59 PM)


nigel99  (D 1)

Dec 3, 2012, 11:27 PM
Post #29 of 33 (805 views)
Shortcut
Re: [popsjumper] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
But basically it is your canopy size in square feet divided by your exit weight (you plus equipment and clothing) in pounds. So a 200 square foot canopy with a person who weighs 220 pounds is about 1.1:1 wing loading.


That would be exit weight in pounds per canopy size in sq.ft.

220 lbs divided by 200 sq ft. = 1.1

Oops, I actually 'corrected' it from that while doing the post. Thanks for correcting it...


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 4, 2012, 7:11 PM
Post #30 of 33 (749 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nigel99] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Oops, I actually 'corrected' it from that while doing the post. Thanks for correcting it...

Correcting a correction is always correct if you do it correctly. Is that correct?


EOCS  (C License)

Dec 5, 2012, 12:22 AM
Post #31 of 33 (726 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Shredex] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've never had a line twist. Unless you count a 1/4 twist but that was because I dumped in a full track which isn't very wise.

Ive never had a problem dumping in full track and dont understand how this can be a bad thing. This is pretty much the norm after breakoff where we jump. Track, maybe roll, quick wave and pull.

As for line twists ive 200 jumps and gotten line twists about 4 times total since jump 1 and they are nothing to worry about on student canopies. just kick out like on a swing.


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Dec 5, 2012, 12:59 PM
Post #32 of 33 (689 views)
Shortcut
Re: [NWFlyer] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Your instructors should go over wing loading as well as how to address line twists in your first jump course.

In the FJC at my home DZ, we address line twists. However, we don't mention "wing loading". Our course is to prep the student for the FIRST jump, nothing more. There is no need to clutter the FJC student's head with stuff that they don't need for the first jump. There are many instructional jumps later to cover that material, IF they choose to continue jumping.


linebckr83  (D 30571)

Dec 5, 2012, 1:55 PM
Post #33 of 33 (671 views)
Shortcut
Re: [EOCS] How often does line twist happen in student jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've never had a line twist. Unless you count a 1/4 twist but that was because I dumped in a full track which isn't very wise.

Ive never had a problem dumping in full track and dont understand how this can be a bad thing. This is pretty much the norm after breakoff where we jump. Track, maybe roll, quick wave and pull.

As for line twists ive 200 jumps and gotten line twists about 4 times total since jump 1 and they are nothing to worry about on student canopies. just kick out like on a swing.

I wish I had the same experience. During my first 50 jumps I dumped in a full track. Blew open the 2 right outer cells on my spectre 210 Pirate



Forums : Skydiving : General Skydiving Discussions

 


Search for (options)