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CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable)

 


Abedy

Nov 11, 2012, 8:43 AM
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CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) Can't Post

Visited Airtec at the annual safety conference of DFV (German Parachute Ass.) in Schweinfurt, Bavaria. (Any Americans folks happened to be stationed there?)
Anyway, Airtec staff demonstrated a ripcord cable is easily cut by a CYPRES cutter, see video

Unfortunately I didn't notice that my cell phone went into "keys locked" modus so when they showed that an untightened loop (actually hanging loose from the cutter) is also cut through cleanly the dammit phone failed to be quick enough to get it. Will have to wait until next year and then post it Tongue

We could also see the STRATOS CYPRES.

Got some nice pull-up bands, they are really good and last for a hundreds of pack jobs Cool


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 11, 2012, 10:47 AM
Post #2 of 32 (4171 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Abedy,

While I did not see the actual testing, I have seen the resulting ripcord cable that an ASTRA has cut through.

I am thinking that probably all of them will do it.

Thoughts anyone?????

JerryBaumchen


Deyan  (D 322)

Nov 11, 2012, 11:23 AM
Post #3 of 32 (4142 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Jerry,

Quote:
I am thinking that probably all of them will do it.

Thoughts anyone?????

I'm with you on that one. Wink
Severing a ripcord cable might look spectacular, but it's easier to accomplish than severing a non tensioned dynema loop.

With all that said, I still believe that a single blade cutter is the way to go, when we are talking about AAD cutters.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 11, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #4 of 32 (4068 views)
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In reply to:
Got some nice pull-up bands, they are really good and last for a hundreds of pack jobs Cool

How long they last is not necessarily the best measure for how good stow bands are.


sundevil777  (D License)

Nov 11, 2012, 2:07 PM
Post #5 of 32 (4062 views)
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Re: [CarpeDiem3] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Got some nice pull-up bands, they are really good and last for a hundreds of pack jobs Cool

How long they last is not necessarily the best measure for how good stow bands are.

Pull up cords, not stow bands.

The cypres and paragear pull ups are nice, in that the tapered ends are smooth, unlike some others that have a rough edge that makes it more difficult to get past the the loop, with more wear likely. I do it in a way such that it doesn't matter, but many just pull it through.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Nov 12, 2012, 6:08 AM
Post #6 of 32 (3883 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Anyway, Airtec staff demonstrated a ripcord cable is easily cut by a CYPRES cutter

I've seen this demo done as well, and even at the time, I was completely baffled as to why they did it.

What relevance does this have to me as a sport parachutist? I'm not using it to steal a bike (though maybe I should).


Abedy

Nov 12, 2012, 11:08 AM
Post #7 of 32 (3811 views)
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Re: [Joellercoaster] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What relevance does this have to me as a sport parachutist? I'm not using it to steal a bike (though maybe I should).

The purpose of this demonstration is to show the cutter is able to cleanly cut even very tough material. As I wrote before, I unfortunately missed to record the more interesting part: It also CLEANLY cuts a loop that is NOT tightened, not put into a plastic tubing. Even then it doesn't fail to do what it is thought for.


nigel99  (D 1)

Nov 12, 2012, 9:16 PM
Post #8 of 32 (3728 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
What relevance does this have to me as a sport parachutist? I'm not using it to steal a bike (though maybe I should).

The purpose of this demonstration is to show the cutter is able to cleanly cut even very tough material. As I wrote before, I unfortunately missed to record the more interesting part: It also CLEANLY cuts a loop that is NOT tightened, not put into a plastic tubing. Even then it doesn't fail to do what it is thought for.

Nope, the purpose of the demo is to sell AADs. I wouldn't be surprised if an Argus cut a ripcord cable. As someone else mentioned an un tensioned loop has a different set of problems when you try and cut it (I have no doubt a cypres would cut it)

Cool demo non the less.


Abedy

Nov 12, 2012, 10:57 PM
Post #9 of 32 (3710 views)
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Re: [nigel99] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the purpose of the demo is to sell AADs by showing the CYPRES cutter both cleanly and reliably cuts ripcord cables and an untightened loop - selling by showing advantages

FIFY CoolWinkWinkWink


(This post was edited by Abedy on Nov 12, 2012, 10:58 PM)


skydiverek  (C 952)

Nov 13, 2012, 1:17 AM
Post #10 of 32 (3681 views)
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Re: [nigel99] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wouldn't be surprised if an Argus cut a ripcord cable.

See page 27 and 31, and reconsider...:

http://www.pia.com/...9_562FINALREPORT.pdf


(This post was edited by skydiverek on Nov 13, 2012, 4:07 AM)


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Nov 13, 2012, 5:21 AM
Post #11 of 32 (3638 views)
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In reply to:
The purpose of this demonstration is to show the cutter is able to cleanly cut even very tough material

Why is that something that should concern me when buying an AAD?

I'm a pretty good dancer but I don't feel the need to throw shapes when I'm offering my services as a computer programmer.


Abedy

Nov 13, 2012, 10:15 AM
Post #12 of 32 (3590 views)
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Re: [Joellercoaster] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The purpose of this demonstration is to show the cutter is able to cleanly cut even very tough material

Why is that something that should concern me when buying an AAD?

SIGH! Unsure
As I wrote before: I - unfortunately - missed to tape the "proof of the pudding" when an actual loop - under pretty bad circumstances (not tightened, hanging loose, no plastic tubing) was also cut through, neat and clean!

If I had known a number of folks don't read my article in full I would have refrained from posting and would have waited until I'm able to post the vid with the loop being cut... Crazy


nigel99  (D 1)

Nov 13, 2012, 4:40 PM
Post #13 of 32 (3536 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
The purpose of this demonstration is to show the cutter is able to cleanly cut even very tough material

Why is that something that should concern me when buying an AAD?

SIGH! Unsure
As I wrote before: I - unfortunately - missed to tape the "proof of the pudding" when an actual loop - under pretty bad circumstances (not tightened, hanging loose, no plastic tubing) was also cut through, neat and clean!

If I had known a number of folks don't read my article in full I would have refrained from posting and would have waited until I'm able to post the vid with the loop being cut... Crazy

Hey, it's just miscommunication. All people are saying is it is a marketing gimmick. Yes it's fun and interesting, but it holds little relevance to what it is designed to do.


Abedy

Nov 14, 2012, 1:20 PM
Post #14 of 32 (3422 views)
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Re: [nigel99] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
but it holds little relevance to what it is designed to do.

I'm giving up.
One last remark, though. The demonstration of a loose loop being cut cleanly holds relevance: If it does cut the loop even when it is not tightened, it definitely will cut the loop in the way it is set up in a reserve.

Sheldor AFK


RiggerLee

Nov 14, 2012, 2:35 PM
Post #15 of 32 (3393 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I don't get the cable thing eather. It's just to impress the ignorant, of which there are plenty in this sport. The loop cutting demo is cool though. I fermly beleave that any cutter should have this capability and pass this test. We've been flying a vigil on the last two launches. We're thinking about going from the pin puller we are useing to just the vigil cutter. Curently we have one linked to our computer just as a backup to the pinpuller which has turned out to be problmatic. In testing they were cutting two layers of thousand pound HMA with it to sever the loop. It cut cleanly with no hang ups of any kind with NO tension on it. Right now we are useing it to cut two layers of 500 lb vectran. That's what we used on the last flight. I've got vid on my computer of it cutting the loops but I don't know how to post it dirrectly to the thread.

Lee


pchapman  (D 1014)

Nov 14, 2012, 2:48 PM
Post #16 of 32 (3385 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

For another partially irrelevant but interesting test, attached are photos from my test from last year where four untensioned CYPRES loops were inserted into the cutter -- as many as I could cram through the hole.

The result was 3 cut loops, and one that still had roughly one or two of its 'bundles' of thread (out of 12 I think) that wasn't cut. Putting tension on both ends, it is clear that those strands have not been cut.

Pretty good I figure, getting through most of 4* 450lbs = 1800 lbs of Spectra.

I have video; don't know if I'll bother to post. The 'tops' of the loops were pointing up slightly when tested (as in photo 1). The three tops of the loops that got cut, they shot right off the table -- the cutter spat them out with a lot of force.

(I annotated the photo of the closeup just so it isn't as easy for the photo to get out there without being taken in context -- it isn't a "cutter failure"!)
Attachments: 1 Cypres set up to cut 4 loops.JPG (91.6 KB)
  2 Cypres cut 3 of 4 loops (loops manually repositioned for clarity).JPG (98.3 KB)
  3 Closeup of loop not cut when cutting 4 loops at once.JPG (125 KB)


nigel99  (D 1)

Nov 14, 2012, 3:53 PM
Post #17 of 32 (3342 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
but it holds little relevance to what it is designed to do.

I'm giving up.
One last remark, though. The demonstration of a loose loop being cut cleanly holds relevance: If it does cut the loop even when it is not tightened, it definitely will cut the loop in the way it is set up in a reserve.

Sheldor AFK

As I say it is a miscommunication. The slack loop is 100% relevant, so would demos of cutters that have been exposed to harsh abuse ( sand or grit in the hole, cutter left in water or salt water).


Abedy

Nov 14, 2012, 11:33 PM
Post #18 of 32 (3279 views)
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Re: [pchapman] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting test with an interesting result, heh heh.
4 loop crammed into the cutter. Reminds me of the examples of reserve "loops" on display at Airtec's manufacture that were fabricated by a number of riggers before the CYPRES loop was invented. Some were made of old suspension lines, mainly Dacron. Such "loops" are a tough challenge, indeed. Thank engineering and Airtec's generosity, this is no longer necessary as CYPRES loops (and the "smiley" discs) are given away for free. IIRC they have forked out more than 1,000,000 loops up to now.

@RiggerLee - Thanks for your report, interesting. As for "impressing the ignorant". Heck, I'm a physicist so I'm fond of all kinds of experiments. Add "male physicist" and you know I like BOOM, POW, PUFF Tongue But yeah, I know cutting a loop that is not perfectly fitted is the real challenge and I think Airtec has sufficiently shown their products are capable of doing so. Even NASA has used Airtec technology, heh heh. Cool

Nuff said, Sheldor AFK


crapflinger2000  (D 15756)

Nov 15, 2012, 9:30 AM
Post #19 of 32 (3224 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

Ha! Even though I am long out of the sport (not sure why I visit this forum every other day still though) I have something relevant to comment on.

Just this weekend I took my ages old and turned into a pumpkin Cypres and used the cutter to chop through a coat hanger.

Considered using a ripcord cable but didn't have one I could spare.

So... my thoughts are:

- Yes, impressive to know that the cutter has enough oomph to chop through metal
- It doesn't take a physics major to know that "Yes, a rigid piece of metal is NOT the same thing as a cypres closing loop - under tension or not" - especially to those of us who worked with the material on a daily basis for years packing reserves.
- However, the demo IS worthwhile - it shows non-technical minded jumpers that they are carrying a piece of gear with some good engineering and power to it. If it helps them move a few more units of a quality product, who gives a toss?


Abedy

Nov 17, 2012, 3:15 AM
Post #20 of 32 (2990 views)
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Re: [crapflinger2000] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
used the cutter to chop through a coat hanger.

Heh, heh! Cool

In reply to:
However, the demo IS worthwhile - it shows non-technical minded jumpers that they are carrying a piece of gear with some good engineering and power to it. If it helps them move a few more units of a quality product, who gives a toss?

This! +1


Andy9o8  (D License)

Nov 17, 2012, 3:36 AM
Post #21 of 32 (2992 views)
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Re: [crapflinger2000] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
- However, the demo IS worthwhile - it shows non-technical minded jumpers that they are carrying a piece of gear with some good engineering and power to it. If it helps them move a few more units of a quality product, who gives a toss?

Depends on whether it's (a) relevant and (b) not misleading to said non-technical minded consumers.


NeonLights  (D License)

Nov 17, 2012, 11:11 AM
Post #22 of 32 (2870 views)
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Re: [Deyan] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

Probably gonna piss some people off with this, but... With the amazing things going on in modern technology... I don't see why so many people are so impressed with a mechanism that can cut a cable.. Am i missing something?


erdnarob  (D 364)

Nov 20, 2012, 6:49 PM
Post #23 of 32 (2259 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

Trying cutting a ripcord steel cable with a good pair of pliers, there should be no problem. Using the same pliers, try now to cut a Spectra reserve closing loop and you will see it's another story. Steel is a material so different than synthetic fiber. Making an assumption that if it cut steel it will cut a synthetic fiber thread is erroneous. Also, the electronic AAD's have a chemical explosive charge and no wonder they can cut a 1/8 diameter steel cable. Synthetic fibers have amazing features. Just think about Kevlar used in bullet safe jackets.


(This post was edited by erdnarob on Nov 20, 2012, 6:50 PM)


piisfish

Nov 21, 2012, 12:10 AM
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Re: [erdnarob] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

well it also have a pretty good record of cutting spectra, even without tension.
The only cases I heard of one of these cutters not cutting the spectra loops was because the loop was NOT routed through the hole.
Unlike some others Unimpressed


nigel99  (D 1)

Nov 21, 2012, 1:41 AM
Post #25 of 32 (2201 views)
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Re: [piisfish] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
well it also have a pretty good record of cutting spectra, even without tension.
The only cases I heard of one of these cutters not cutting the spectra loops was because the loop was NOT routed through the hole.
Unlike some others Unimpressed

But Robs informative post, goes to show that the 'test' is a lovely marketing gimmick. Technically cutting the untensioned spectra is harder, but that's not what people come away talking about. Tongue


Abedy

Nov 21, 2012, 9:15 AM
Post #26 of 32 (325 views)
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Re: [erdnarob] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Using the same pliers, try now to cut a Spectra reserve closing loop and you will see it's another story.

That's all correct and understood... ya sorta missed my THREE statements about the SUCCESSFUL demonstration of an UNtightened (loose hanging) reserve loop being cut? WinkWinkWink


RiggerLee

Nov 21, 2012, 1:42 PM
Post #27 of 32 (290 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

So it wont let me up load the video here but I found another spot on the web site to up load it. It will be under "loop cut 1" and "loop cut 2" in missolanious. It looks like it will have to go through some kind of approval process, probable checking for kiddi porn, but it shud be up soon. Boringest vid ever for any non rigger. In any case keep an eye out.

Lee


nigel99  (D 1)

Nov 21, 2012, 1:55 PM
Post #28 of 32 (285 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Using the same pliers, try now to cut a Spectra reserve closing loop and you will see it's another story.

That's all correct and understood... ya sorta missed my THREE statements about the SUCCESSFUL demonstration of an UNtightened (loose hanging) reserve loop being cut? WinkWinkWink

You should have called your thread "Cypres cuts loop" to highlight the pointAngelicTongue


skydiverek  (C 952)

Nov 21, 2012, 11:00 PM
Post #29 of 32 (252 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Using the same pliers, try now to cut a Spectra reserve closing loop and you will see it's another story.

That's all correct and understood... ya sorta missed my THREE statements about the SUCCESSFUL demonstration of an UNtightened (loose hanging) reserve loop being cut? WinkWinkWink

GUYS!!! Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jf3NV5wLWw

Wink


Abedy

Nov 21, 2012, 11:37 PM
Post #30 of 32 (246 views)
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Re: [nigel99] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You should have called your thread "Cypres cuts loop but due to my f*ckin' cam I didn't get around to taping it so I will at least show the one with a ripcord being cut" to highlight the pointAngelicTongue

FIFY TongueTongueTongue
OK, would have been a loooooooooooooooooooong subject, but heck... Wink


RiggerLee

Nov 22, 2012, 12:59 AM
Post #31 of 32 (232 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Ok, vids are up as loop cut 1 and loop cut 2 if you go to the video area

http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Miscellaneous/loop_cut_2_2406.html

http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Miscellaneous/loop_cut_1_2405.html


So what you're seeing there is a Vigil cutter wired into our computer. There's a fuse in parillel with it. You'll see the fuse blow and the cutter fire cutting the loop. It's a 500 lb vectran loop. The thin wire runs through the cutter giveing the computer feed back on the release of the main. You'll also see a pin puller being activated at the same time although it's macanicaly slower. At the top of the frame you can just see the top of the recovery section. This is the setup we used on the last flight in early nov.

Lee


nigel99  (D 1)

Nov 22, 2012, 1:24 AM
Post #32 of 32 (228 views)
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Re: [Abedy] CYPRES cuts steel wire (ripcord cable) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You should have called your thread "Cypres cuts loop but due to my f*ckin' cam I didn't get around to taping it so I will at least show the one with a ripcord being cut" to highlight the pointAngelicTongue

FIFY TongueTongueTongue
OK, would have been a loooooooooooooooooooong subject, but heck... Wink

LaughLaugh or simply 'boobies' and the clip, you'd have got more hits....



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