Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Audible's for new jumpers

 


NeonLights  (D License)

Nov 3, 2012, 7:42 PM
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Audible's for new jumpers Can't Post

I bought an audible yesterday, and i haven't relied on it for a jump yet except to break off from a tracking formation. However i think its a GREAT tool for newbies. Everytime my pre-pull alarm goes off i am already looking at my wrist mount, but its nice having the peace of mind. I understand the reasoning against new people using them but this is just my thought on it. An extra reminder of alititude can never be a bad thing!


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 3, 2012, 9:21 PM
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Re: [NeonLights] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

They're nice when they work right. I've had mine go off from exit till landing before. Other times it never went off. Start counting on it to work perfect and it will bite you in the ass one day. Look at the ground and look at your wrist alti.


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 3, 2012, 9:51 PM
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Re: [Mr_Polite] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

+1


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 4, 2012, 7:17 AM
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Re: [NeonLights] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with Mr. Polite on this. Altimeters of any sort are useful tools...until they fail.

You can plan for that eventuality by starting NOW to train your best altimeters...your eyeballs.

How do you do that? Look at your alti and then look at the ground. "I'm at 5000 feet and this is what the ground looks like. I am at 4000 feet and this is what the ground looks like"....and so on.

You will eventually get to the point where you can get it right when you look at the ground first to get your altitude and then compare it with what the alti says.

Pay attention to your peripheral vision for the horizon too.

If you look at your alti and it says the same thing twice in a row, automatically assume that it has stuck/failed. There's a video that shows a TI checking his several times wondering "WTF"...all the way to AAD fire IIRC.


JackC1

Nov 4, 2012, 8:05 AM
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Re: [popsjumper] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
your best altimeters...your eyeballs.

The Mk1 eyeball doesn't come calibrated, it deteriorates with age, it's myopic, hyperopic, it has zero depth perception beyond about 50ft, it goes blurry if it gets dirt or wind in it or the thing covering it mists up, it gets tired, it is easily confused if it's looks down at a DZ or an altitude it's never seen before and it gets steadily more inaccurate the higher it gets. I know of one dz where the surrounding fields are much smaller than normal and they have had so many low pull incidents from visitors who rely on the Mk1 eyeball that they now include the advice NOT to eyeball the altitude in their standard safety brief.

Don't get me wrong, the eyeball is an essential bit of kit that should be trained and developed, but it is not fool proof.


(This post was edited by JackC1 on Nov 4, 2012, 8:07 AM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Nov 5, 2012, 1:00 PM
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Re: [JackC1] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Don't get me wrong, the eyeball is an essential bit of kit that should be trained and developed, but it is not fool proof.

Eyes are good... use them to check your altitude/altimeter often. Audibles are just warnings to check your altitude again. No more, no less. Cool


dthames  (B 37674)

Nov 5, 2012, 4:06 PM
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Re: [NeonLights] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

The simple advice I got was, "Don't let yourself be dependent on it".


Greell  (B License)

Nov 6, 2012, 3:54 AM
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Re: [dthames] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

+1

I was taught that while they're an excellent bit of comfort, and can be a good tool...don't substitute it for your visual alti, and your knowledge/experience.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 8, 2012, 3:16 PM
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Re: [NeonLights] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

Every so often I will remove mine for a few dozen jumps and then replace it. This gets me over the im used to the sound and didnt even remember hearing it syndrome. When I put it back in, it startles me all over again.
This also enforces serious concentration on Visual and Altimeter backup.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 8, 2012, 6:05 PM
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Re: [JackC1] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep, anything can be fooled if you set yourself up for it.
Your scenario assumes that nobody does anything to help/protect them altimeters.


JackC1

Nov 9, 2012, 2:24 AM
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Re: [popsjumper] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yep, anything can be fooled if you set yourself up for it.
Your scenario assumes that nobody does anything to help/protect them altimeters.

I didn't post any scenario or assume anything, I just listed the failings of the human eye applicable to its use as an altimeter. Under most circumstances for most people the eye is less accurate and less reliable than an actual instrument, which is exactly why such instruments were invented in the first place.


(This post was edited by JackC1 on Nov 9, 2012, 2:32 AM)


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 9, 2012, 4:03 AM
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Re: [JackC1] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

I can tell a big difference between10k, 6k, 4 k and 2 k . If you can't then maybe you don't pay attention when you're jumping. Sure your eye isn't going to give you an exact altitude down to the foot but when your altimeter gets stuck I hope you don't just stare it or wonder what to do. Audibles are a backup. That's it. If you use one to tell you when to pull and break it's going to fail one day. Use your wrist alti and look at the ground


JackC1

Nov 9, 2012, 6:07 AM
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Re: [Mr_Polite] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can tell a big difference between10k, 6k, 4 k and 2 k . If you can't then maybe you don't pay attention when you're jumping. Sure your eye isn't going to give you an exact altitude down to the foot but when your altimeter gets stuck I hope you don't just stare it or wonder what to do. Audibles are a backup. That's it. If you use one to tell you when to pull and break it's going to fail one day. Use your wrist alti and look at the ground

What has that got to do with anything I said?


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 9, 2012, 1:42 PM
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Re: [JackC1] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

Whats your point?


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 9, 2012, 5:32 PM
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Re: [Mr_Polite] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he just wants to say that eyeballs aren't perfect and that external altimeters are more accurate in the big scheme of things.
True on both counts.

It would be nice to have trained substitutes when the mechanical or electronic one goes on the fritz.


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 9, 2012, 10:26 PM
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Re: [popsjumper] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It would be nice to have trained substitutes when the mechanical or electronic one goes on the fritz.

exactly


EOCS  (C License)

Nov 12, 2012, 2:55 PM
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Re: [NeonLights] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

im rather new but from what ive seen so far its a combination. check your alti and listen for ur audible and there is always that little voice in ur head that says pull. I figure if you pull around the same as the others around you, you dont see the ants as people, and you land ok it was a good skydive. as for being on the mark every time.. i think tis not possible as the more you jump the possibility that all work closes to zero..

AGAIN. just my noob opinion....

EDIT... as for really new people i think its better to get used to checking your alt rather then relying on a beep to tell you its time to pull..


(This post was edited by EOCS on Nov 12, 2012, 2:56 PM)


Shredex

Nov 12, 2012, 3:13 PM
Post #18 of 29 (2989 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

I do nothing but tracking jumps and it gets really annoying having to stop my track to check my altitude.
Audible's are heaven to me!
trick is to never use just one. I see people using 3 Audibles at once each jump.


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 12, 2012, 3:34 PM
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Re: [Shredex] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

Why can't you check your alti while you are tracking?


Squeak  (E 1313)

Nov 12, 2012, 4:22 PM
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Re: [Mr_Polite] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why can't you check your alti while you are tracking?
I'd say he doesn't know how to check it,


Shredex

Nov 12, 2012, 4:32 PM
Post #21 of 29 (2961 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

It screws up my track no matter how I check it. Getting a chest mount soon enough, though.
BUT Audibles ARE an option! And it makes full on tracking jumps that much easier. That's all I'm saying.
There are many good uses for the Audible. But never only jump with an audible...always have the ol' trusty wrist watch.


drewcarp

Nov 12, 2012, 4:47 PM
Post #22 of 29 (2950 views)
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Re: [NeonLights] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretty awesome to have as a hard deck alarm. Wouldn't bother for break off and pull, I'd rather keep track on my own with more reliable means.


dthames  (B 37674)

Nov 12, 2012, 5:14 PM
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Re: [Shredex] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It screws up my track no matter how I check it. Getting a chest mount soon enough, though.
BUT Audibles ARE an option! And it makes full on tracking jumps that much easier. That's all I'm saying.
There are many good uses for the Audible. But never only jump with an audible...always have the ol' trusty wrist watch.

I gave up the audible on trackng jumps so I could listen to my Flysight. The suggestion to practice judging alt by eyeball is something that is pretty easy and a good thing to practice on a tracking jump. It is a good challange as well.

I did get a chest mount recently. It is one of those 45 deg jobs that hangs on the mudflap.


Shredex

Nov 12, 2012, 5:28 PM
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Re: [dthames] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I gave up the audible on trackng jumps so I could listen to my Flysight. The suggestion to practice judging alt by eyeball is something that is pretty easy and a good thing to practice on a tracking jump. It is a good challange as well.

I did get a chest mount recently. It is one of those 45 deg jobs that hangs on the mudflap.

I actually haven't purchased an audible yet but was looking into it. Been working on the eyeball shindig, though. Clouds help a LOT with judging. I'll spot where the clouds are altitude-wise on the way up, then I have a nice gauge. They usually start around 5K here.

This is the chest mount I was looking at that someone at the DZ had on:
http://www.boneheadcomposites.com/...altimeter-mount.html

Flysight is definitively on my to-get list.


(This post was edited by Shredex on Nov 12, 2012, 5:30 PM)


hillson  (D 33134)

Nov 12, 2012, 6:37 PM
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Re: [Shredex] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I do nothing but tracking jumps and it gets really annoying having to stop my track to check my altitude.
Audible's are heaven to me!
trick is to never use just one. I see people using 3 Audibles at once each jump.

Didn't hear around the DeeZee that you'd picked up your A card. Maybe I missed it...


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 13, 2012, 4:37 AM
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Re: [Shredex] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not that difficult to check your altimeter while you're tracking. Are you using an analog or digital altimeter?
A chest strap one will make it easier but you should be able to look at it on your wrist while still tracking. If you can't practice more.


Shredex

Nov 13, 2012, 4:52 AM
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Re: [Mr_Polite] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

I can, but it IS difficult at my extremely low skill level and during a really hard track. Everything becomes very twitchy at a point. It's like a balancing act lol but I will definitely learn. Trying to make it like second nature without having to think about it.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 13, 2012, 7:19 AM
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Re: [Shredex] Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can, but it IS difficult at my extremely low skill level and during a really hard track. Everything becomes very twitchy at a point. It's like a balancing act lol but I will definitely learn. Trying to make it like second nature without having to think about it.

Bingo. Keep at it..you'll get better and better at it as time and experience go on. Obviously, you understand the importance of tracking a straight line.
Smile


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Nov 13, 2012, 7:20 AM)


GalFisk  (D 23239)

Nov 14, 2012, 12:43 AM
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Re: Audible's for new jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

The cloud altitude observation is a good thing, I use that too.
I use my dytter as a reminder - at the warning altitudes, I should already have started the process of breaking off or waving off. If it beeps before I've initiated the procedures, it tells me I've had a problem with altitude awareness and need to shape up.



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