Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff?

 

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strop45  (D 957)

Oct 25, 2012, 2:20 AM
Post #26 of 55 (1532 views)
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Re: [Shredex] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.

I mean 2% of licensed drivers will die in a motor vehicle accident each year. That's based of the number of licensed drivers vs fatalities per year.
Really? These statements say different things.

2% is far too high. I think the number you want is closer 0.02%.

Not every road fatality is a licensed driver
Most skydivers spend more time driving than skydiving and yet I still know more people killed skydiving than driving?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 25, 2012, 3:45 AM
Post #27 of 55 (1514 views)
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Re: [Shredex] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

>You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the
>road.

No, you have a .016% chance of dying every year in a motor vehicle. If you drive 180 days a year, that's a .0008% chance of dying every time you get in a motor vehicle.


-Joey-  (B License)

Oct 25, 2012, 3:58 AM
Post #28 of 55 (1508 views)
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Re: [strop45] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think it's correct to talk about odds of dying as if it's all based on chance. Your rig doesn't roll a dice or spin a roulette wheel every time you jump to determine if it's your turn to die. Your personal safety decisions are what will determine the outcome. I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing. You really decide your own odds.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 25, 2012, 4:48 AM
Post #29 of 55 (1490 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Keep this in mind: Many people get hurt at the dz when they are not jumping. You will also lose more skydiving friends from other causes like cancer, suicide, motorcycles, cars, violence, etc.

The moral of the story is: Live and love however you want, but try to be safe so you can keep doing it.


wmw999  (D 6296)

Oct 25, 2012, 5:17 AM
Post #30 of 55 (1474 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You really decide your own odds
You can mitigate, but not eliminate, the risk.

No one does everything right all the time (especially when viewed in retrospect). And sometimes shit happens. Don't ever think that you can eliminate the risk entirely. And don't ever think that you can be good enough not to make a mistake.

Wendy P.


TrickyMike  (A 67853)

Oct 25, 2012, 5:49 AM
Post #31 of 55 (1465 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks again for the advice.

I'm thinking a canopy control course is something I'll want to do ASAP. Is that something I'd benefit from if I took it, for example, immediately after getting licensed? Or immediately after getting cleared for self supervision? Is that too soon?


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Oct 25, 2012, 6:44 AM
Post #32 of 55 (1445 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks again for the advice.

I'm thinking a canopy control course is something I'll want to do ASAP. Is that something I'd benefit from if I took it, for example, immediately after getting licensed? Or immediately after getting cleared for self supervision? Is that too soon?

Yes. Either time would be appropriate (check the guidelines for the specific course that you sign up for - some will want you to have a license, but most will allow you to take it as soon as you're self-supervised).

The other thing to keep in mind is this: don't think of "taking a canopy course" as a "one and done" thing. I know many skydivers (myself included) who take them every couple of years as a refresher, and as a way to set aside a day to focus on the most important life- and limb-saving skill we have. Smile


potatoman  (Student)

Oct 25, 2012, 6:47 AM
Post #33 of 55 (1442 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ignoring the rest of the posts.

I have done:
hang gliding,skydiving,scuba,super biking (track and the highway),gliding,cycling,motox,rally etc.

Out of those, here is my rating for fatalities(some has more injuries, less fatalities):
super bike
motox (more injuries though)
cycling
hang/skydiving
scuba/rally

Most of these since there is more variables. Skydiving has less. Take cycling and jumping. You don't jump through cars, or drunk pilots. Also, there is no gear check, you get on when and where you want, NO RULES>


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 25, 2012, 6:51 AM
Post #34 of 55 (1441 views)
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Re: [potatoman] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ignoring the rest of the posts.

I have done:
hang gliding,skydiving,scuba,super biking (track and the highway),gliding,cycling,motox,rally etc.

Out of those, here is my rating for fatalities(some has more injuries, less fatalities):
super bike
motox (more injuries though)
cycling
hang/skydiving
scuba/rally

Most of these since there is more variables. Skydiving has less. Take cycling and jumping. You don't jump through cars, or drunk pilots. Also, there is no gear check, you get on when and where you want, NO RULES>

You just proved you don't know much about skydiving.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 25, 2012, 6:59 AM
Post #35 of 55 (1439 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

My favorite thing to do is to ride the ZX11 out to the DZ.... Double the fun but the risk factor is exponential!


DaVincisEnvy  (C License)

Oct 25, 2012, 8:39 AM
Post #36 of 55 (1414 views)
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Re: [billvon] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

That sounds a bit more in line with reality. A couple of years ago, after getting a ridiculously high life insurance premium quote when I disclosed my skydiving activities, I decided to crunch those numbers myself. Since the insurance company didn't care what type of motor vehicle I drove, I decided to compare the fatality risk associated with skydiving to that associated with another activity for which the fatality risk was considered so inconsequential as to be excluded from the life insurance premium calculation -- namely, riding a motorcycle.

Using the skydiving data here: http://www.uspa.org/...bid/526/Default.aspx
And the motorcycle safety data here: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810806.pdf

You can calculate that, for 2006 (the most recent year for which data are available in both categories), the fatality risks are:
per vehicle mile traveled on a motorcycle: 3.88E-7
per skydive: 1.03E-5

So, to accumulate the same risk associated with one skydive, you must ride your motorcycle (1.03E-5)/(3.88E-7) = 26.6 miles

Since I live approximately that far from work, it would, statistically-speaking, be safer for me to skydive into work than to ride a motorcycle. When I called the insurance company back to share my findings with their actuaries, they were unsurprisingly uninterested. Unsure


TsunamiGilligan  (C 41364)

Oct 25, 2012, 10:31 AM
Post #37 of 55 (1388 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Good to see that you are reading and being mindful to filter the BS. I'm a relative noob myself, but here's my $.02. As far as statistics, just try not to become one. You know this is dangerous, so it's really all about mitigating the risk. As a student, remember to first and foremost rely on information from your first jump course, and your instructors. Since you won't be doing FJC until the spring, here is some additional reading material that I have enjoyed, and should get you through the off season.

http://skydiveschool.org/
The Skydiver's Handbook - Dan Poynter
The Parachute and Its Pilot - Brian Germain
Above All Else - Dan Brodsky-Chenfeld


adamUK  (C 104423)

Oct 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
Post #38 of 55 (1377 views)
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Re: [cocheese] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Keep this in mind: Many people get hurt at the dz when they are not jumping.

Do not underestimate the number of jumpers that get seriously injured (either physically or emotionally) at the bar during the evening. Seriously: Have you factored this into your thinking?? Tongue


TrickyMike  (A 67853)

Oct 25, 2012, 11:33 AM
Post #39 of 55 (1366 views)
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Re: [adamUK] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Keep this in mind: Many people get hurt at the dz when they are not jumping.

Do not underestimate the number of jumpers that get seriously injured (either physically or emotionally) at the bar during the evening. Seriously: Have you factored this into your thinking?? Tongue

Good point.

There was this one time years ago when my best mate and I spent the night drinking "surprise me" booze drinks in Austin, TX. This young lady in a ridiculously short skirt goes strutting by my buddy... working the room like nobody's business. She passes him and heads up a staircase. He, being male, watches her pass... Nothing really creepy or anything... at least as far as I could tell. ("surprise booze drink" disclaimer).

Anyway, her friend on the other hand, looking to get in on some of the attention walks right up to my bud, SLAPS HIM in the face and yells (more to the room than to him) "Don't look up her skirt YOU LITTLE PERVERT!"

As she turned and walked off I managed to yell (between fits of screeching laughter) "HEY!!!!! He's not little!"

Wink


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 25, 2012, 11:52 AM
Post #40 of 55 (1352 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyway, her friend on the other hand, looking to get in on some of the attention walks right up to my bud, SLAPS HIM in the face and yells (more to the room than to him) "Don't look up her skirt YOU LITTLE PERVERT!"

As she turned and walked off I managed to yell (between fits of screeching laughter) "HEY!!!!! He's not little!"

In reply to:

I've been in this sport quite a while and have always been fairly accurate when I access this like this...

IMO ~ You'll do well in skydiving, you fit right in! Sly


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Oct 25, 2012, 12:03 PM
Post #41 of 55 (1351 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing.

I have heard of fatalities which match your description. A horseshoe with main-reserve entanglement is one example. The horseshoe was believed to be due to the main's lines snagging on a main container flap (the flap, not the grommet).

I suspect that nearly all tandem fatalities would fall in your description above.

Risk can be managed and reduced... but skydiving cannot be made risk free.


ghost47  (D License)

Oct 25, 2012, 12:50 PM
Post #42 of 55 (1330 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing. You really decide your own odds.
So you have never heard of a fatal canopy collision?


muff528  (D 17609)

Oct 25, 2012, 1:19 PM
Post #43 of 55 (1319 views)
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Re: [ghost47] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing. You really decide your own odds.
So you have never heard of a fatal canopy collision?

Those landings are usually "rocky road" ....not "vanilla".


labrys  (D 29848)

Oct 25, 2012, 5:57 PM
Post #44 of 55 (1249 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing.

You don't get out much, do you?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 26, 2012, 10:22 AM
Post #45 of 55 (1150 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

> I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed /
>knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did
>a vanilla landing.

I can think of about two dozen. Glove problems, pattern collisions, freefall collisions, hard openings, heart attacks, plane crashes . . .


roostnureye  (D 32166)

Oct 29, 2012, 12:11 PM
Post #46 of 55 (999 views)
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Re: [billvon] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

this shit is more dangerous than BATH SALTS!!!


blueblur  (A 64923)

Oct 29, 2012, 12:24 PM
Post #47 of 55 (994 views)
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Re: [roostnureye] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
this shit is more dangerous than BATH SALTS!!!

even though that shit will make you eat someone's face off their skull!


erdnarob  (D 364)

Oct 31, 2012, 1:46 PM
Post #48 of 55 (916 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

To survive our dangerous sport you should :

1) be healthy physically and mentally, a little bit crazy is fineWink
2) get knowledge on equipment and techniques thru coaches, instructors, books and web sites like
dropzone.com
3) put your jumps together when in progression. Don't spread them in time
4) if possible do some wind tunnel training parallel to real jumps
5) do things at your level. Read USPA regulations and recommendations for your level and stick
with them
6) have a rigger advising you for equipment when ready to buy one
7) know your equipment and how to use it.
8) if technically oriented, take a senior rigger course
9) for group jumping, don't go when the type of jump exceeds your capabilities
10) always perform good main packing
11) when in a group, track away far enough
12) under canopy, have your head on a swivel, danger is everywhere all around you and below
13) try to get a cut away training using a suspended harness including a real fall on a mattress
14) exchange views on skydiving with pairs. They will learn from you and you will learn from them
Good luck and welcome in our sport


andy1  (D 70243)

Nov 1, 2012, 12:37 AM
Post #49 of 55 (876 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a link to some statistics - which may or may not be correct :)
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/...oth/risk/sports.html


gregpso  (Student)

Nov 1, 2012, 6:18 AM
Post #50 of 55 (844 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with squeak re perceived risk... but there is risk and there is no getting around that. Like others have said you can do everything right and still die.

ie canopy collision which is not your fault
The plane can crash Some one tampers with your rig (it happened in London causing double mal)

Freefall collision that is not your fault.

RISK REWARD only you can decide if its worth it for you.


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