Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff?

 


TrickyMike  (A 67853)

Oct 24, 2012, 10:51 AM
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New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? Can't Post

So, I'm about as new as they come.. 1 tandem! Does that mean I owe the whole internet beer or something? (Don't answer that) Seems like someone always owes SOMEBODY beer! :D

Anyway, as I was riding up in the Otter it became clear pretty much immediately that I wasn't going to be happy with just crossing this off of the "bucket list." My plan is to get through AFF in the spring. In the meantime I can't stop thinking about it, lurking on the forums, stopping into the local DZ to watch, reading the USPA SIM (and actually understanding some of it), asking tons of questions, doing my best to filter out the BS, trying to figure out all of your acronyms, etc.

I have so much to learn.

So, my question is this, and I KNOW this is potentially a giant can of worms (apologies in advance for any shitshow this creates), but I feel like I have to ask anyway....

For those of you who have been doing this a long time, how have your thoughts about how dangerous skydiving is changed over time, with experience, more jumps, etc? Would anyone care to offer some insight on how your perception of the dangers may have changed over the years? Is there anything you look back on now and think, MAN, I wish I knew this back when I started out.

I can read the statistics, but they just don't do it for me. I can read the statistics for motorcycles too, but they paint a pretty grim picture that I haven't found to be entirely accurate over the years. Of course, motorcycles ARE in fact dangerous as is skydiving. The difference for me is that I know a lot about motorcycles, the inherent risks and how to mitigate them where as with skydiving I know precisely jack. shit.

Thanks in advance from the new guy.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Oct 24, 2012, 11:12 AM
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In reply to:

...I can read the statistics, but they just don't do it for me. I can read the statistics for motorcycles too, but they paint a pretty grim picture that I haven't found to be entirely accurate over the years. Of course, motorcycles ARE in fact dangerous as is skydiving. The difference for me is that I know a lot about motorcycles, the inherent risks and how to mitigate them where as with skydiving I know precisely jack. shit.

Thanks in advance from the new guy.

Bolding mine.
And that's it in a nutshell. Learn what the risks are, learn how to behave in a way that they are less likely to bite you.

On a bike you wear proper gear, ride within your own limits and the limits of the road you are on, and keep your head on a swivel because you know the idiots in the cars won't see you.

When jumping, don't downsize too fast, jump with an AAD, keep your head on a swivel in the landing pattern and make sure you jump at a DZ where they have a good safe pattern and enforce the rules.

Those simple steps will take you out of the majority of the statistics categories.


Shredex

Oct 24, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Motorcycles are more dangerous, especially if you're a daily rider like I was.

You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.

These numbers are based upon the number of licensed drivers in the US vs Fatalities and the licensed skydivers in the world vs fatalities.


dontlikemustard  (B License)

Oct 24, 2012, 11:21 AM
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In reply to:
Motorcycles are more dangerous, especially if you're a daily rider like I was.

You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.

These numbers are based upon the number of licensed drivers in the US vs Fatalities and the licensed skydivers in the world vs fatalities.

I don't think those numbers are entirely accurate.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Oct 24, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
The difference for me is that I know a lot about motorcycles, the inherent risks and how to mitigate them where as with skydiving I know precisely jack. shit.

Sounds like you are doing a lot of good things to prepare. Taking the first jump course, know your malfunctions and emergency procedures like your life depended on it (it does) and asking questions to those things you do not understand, making sure your equipment is properly maintained, not getting complacent, be conservative in your choices of canopy size/style, and not trying to do everything "cool" in skydiving as soon as you can are all ways to mitigate the risk.

That being said. "You are never good enough not to die in skydiving". You'll hear that phrase and hopefully not see it in person, but odds are you will unfortunetely. Injuries and death do not discriminate in this sport, student to experienced can both be affected equally.

Skydiving is dangerous, period. We trade that risk for the enjoyment and freedom we feel when we are up there.

If you can deal with that, WELCOME!


(This post was edited by SEREJumper on Oct 24, 2012, 1:16 PM)


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Oct 24, 2012, 11:31 AM
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What he said. And understanding each of the things about skydiving that he mentioned, and why they matter, and what they refer to, is the first step.

Wendy P.


Cape

Oct 24, 2012, 11:42 AM
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"For those searching for something more than just the norm. We lay it all down, including what others call sanity, for just a few moments on waves larger than life. We do this because we know there is still something greater than all of us. Something that inspires us spiritually. We start going downhill, when we stop taking risks." – Laird Hamilton

Something to chew on.


TrickyMike  (A 67853)

Oct 24, 2012, 11:44 AM
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Thanks for the replies.
A huge part of the appeal for me is the learning experience, so I don't feel any self-imposed pressure to rush through what might seem mundane.


chutem  (A 45827)

Oct 24, 2012, 11:48 AM
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In reply to:
Motorcycles are more dangerous, especially if you're a daily rider like I was.

You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.

These numbers are based upon the number of licensed drivers in the US vs Fatalities and the licensed skydivers in the world vs fatalities.

Where did you get those figures?


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 24, 2012, 11:49 AM
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In reply to:
Motorcycles are more dangerous, especially if you're a daily rider like I was.

You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.

These numbers are based upon the number of licensed drivers in the US vs Fatalities and the licensed skydivers in the world vs fatalities.

Completely out of wack. Check your numbers.


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Oct 24, 2012, 12:04 PM
Post #11 of 55 (3704 views)
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Don't obsess about the numbers because, as someone once said, "If you torture numbers long enough they'll confess to anything."

The longer I am in this sport, the more hyper-aware I become of all the ways I could die (or become seriously injured) doing it. In many many ways that's made me a better skydiver, and it's made me a skydiver who makes different choices (often more conservative ones). It means I'm more likely to land farther away from the packing area if it means I have more open space to land in. It means that I am likely to say "no" to a jump if I look at the size/skill level on the jump and think "This is likely to be a shit show." It means I'm likely to sit down when winds start to get wonky. Those are just some examples, but you get the idea.

I don't know about others, but I constantly reassess the risk/reward equation. For now, it still pencils out for me. At some point, it might not pencil out, either because of an increase (either real or perceived) in the risk, or a decrease in the reward.


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Oct 24, 2012, 12:05 PM)


TrickyMike  (A 67853)

Oct 24, 2012, 12:35 PM
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In reply to:
Don't obsess about the numbers because, as someone once said, "If you torture numbers long enough they'll confess to anything."

The longer I am in this sport, the more hyper-aware I become of all the ways I could die (or become seriously injured) doing it. In many many ways that's made me a better skydiver, and it's made me a skydiver who makes different choices (often more conservative ones). It means I'm more likely to land farther away from the packing area if it means I have more open space to land in. It means that I am likely to say "no" to a jump if I look at the size/skill level on the jump and think "This is likely to be a shit show." It means I'm likely to sit down when winds start to get wonky. Those are just some examples, but you get the idea.

I don't know about others, but I constantly reassess the risk/reward equation. For now, it still pencils out for me. At some point, it might not pencil out, either because of an increase (either real or perceived) in the risk, or a decrease in the reward.


That's exactly what my post was after, thanks for the reply.

I don't really bother with the statistics too much and I try to temper what I read on forums. If I were to believe what I read about motorcycles, be it in the news, on forums or in statistics I'd have a pretty inaccurate picture in my head. I can only assume with skydiving, but I imagine at least some of the same risk perception inaccuracies are in play... from both sides of the fence.

Again, this isn't an attempt to discout the risks involved. In both cases they're very real.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 24, 2012, 12:57 PM
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In reply to:
You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
I've ridden on the road at least 50 times. Shouldn't I be dead?

In reply to:
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.
It that's per jump, then in 200 jumps a year, I have a 1.2% chance of dying, right? That, BTW, is about 10 times higher than my estimate. YMMV.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 24, 2012, 1:14 PM
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

For those of you who have been doing this a long time, how have your thoughts about how dangerous skydiving is changed over time, with experience, more jumps, etc? Would anyone care to offer some insight on how your perception of the dangers may have changed over the years? Is there anything you look back on now and think, MAN, I wish I knew this back when I started out.


In reply to:

Heck ya can go 'almost' your whole Skydiving career without getting killed! Wink


I started jumping at the ripe ole age of 18...that's 38 years ago. I've been hurt a few times but never injured.

As has already been pointed out, minimising the risk is a key factor.

You're doing the right thing ~ learning as much as you can, asking questions, observing...Cool

The two things that will get ya to room temperature quick, are complacency & the OTHER guy. . .you always need to be on the look-out for both.

You asked how ones perspective may have changed over time...

I started back when the gear was ratty, the aircraft even worse and there was really only one rule ~Don't do nuthin' stoopid' Other than that ya were a lot more on your own back than compared to now.

Young & bulletproof I did a lot of really 'stoopid' things in retrospect...When I started losing friends who were doing a lotta the same shit I was, it made it real.

Made me reevaluate the risk/reward thing pretty hard.

I became VERY conservative & methodical in my approach...If I have any advice to offer it would be to keep that mind-set foremost ~ but also understand you may still get bitten.

As said above ~ You'll NEVER be too good not to die in this sport.

Some of the BEST the sport has ever seen are gone, 1/4 inch...1/4 second...sometimes that's the difference between makin' your mark in the world figuratively ....or literally Wink


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Oct 24, 2012, 1:53 PM)


Ron

Oct 24, 2012, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.

There are about 30k USPA members in the US. About 30 people die each year.

Using dissimilar numbers can not bring good results.

The "safer than driving" has been beat to death.... I think it is false, personally. But if you want to do a search it will provide my and others opinions on the topic.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Oct 24, 2012, 1:38 PM
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In reply to:
You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.

I think you might want to give that one another look?

To the OP: I haven't been jumping as long as some, but I'm in year 7 and looking back I don't really think there's anything I wish I'd known earlier - other than not to buy a brand new complete rig first up Pirate

But as for the risks... they're pretty well understood and well described, even to new people. Keep your eyes and ears open, don't write checks with your dick that your ass can't cash, and (to paraphrase the single greatest piece of advice given on this forum) "if you get two conflicting opinions from very experienced people, pick the more conservative one".

You'll be fine.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Oct 24, 2012, 2:10 PM
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"There is no such thing as a routine jump!"

Every single time you don a rig and fly in an airplane, be careful.


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Oct 24, 2012, 2:32 PM
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In reply to:
trying to figure out all of your acronyms, etc.

This might help with the vocabulary:

http://www.uspa.org/...bid/173/Default.aspx


devildog  (C 40302)

Oct 24, 2012, 3:52 PM
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Re: [Ron] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.

There are about 30k USPA members in the US. About 30 people die each year.

Using dissimilar numbers can not bring good results.

The "safer than driving" has been beat to death.... I think it is false, personally. But if you want to do a search it will provide my and others opinions on the topic.

Except not everyone that jumps is a USPA member and not every member makes only 1 jump a year.

If you want a rough idea (rough, not taking in any sort of factors other than jump #s) you just take total deaths each year, divide it by total jumps each year, and that's your chance to die per jump -- roughly.


Ron

Oct 24, 2012, 4:14 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.

There are about 30k USPA members in the US. About 30 people die each year.

Using dissimilar numbers can not bring good results.

The "safer than driving" has been beat to death.... I think it is false, personally. But if you want to do a search it will provide my and others opinions on the topic.

Except not everyone that jumps is a USPA member and not every member makes only 1 jump a year.

If you want a rough idea (rough, not taking in any sort of factors other than jump #s) you just take total deaths each year, divide it by total jumps each year, and that's your chance to die per jump -- roughly.

Hence the 'Using dissimilar numbers can not bring good results.'

Not everyone that rides a motorcycle has the same risk either. Frankly the actions are too dissimilar for any kind of simple comparison.

But skydiving has no breaks, once you start a skydive you go full throttle till you start stopping. When you start stopping, the brakes can malfunction and it happens enough that we train for it.


blueblur  (A 64923)

Oct 24, 2012, 4:57 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Don't obsess about the numbers because, as someone once said, "If you torture numbers long enough they'll confess to anything."

The longer I am in this sport, the more hyper-aware I become of all the ways I could die (or become seriously injured) doing it. In many many ways that's made me a better skydiver, and it's made me a skydiver who makes different choices (often more conservative ones). It means I'm more likely to land farther away from the packing area if it means I have more open space to land in. It means that I am likely to say "no" to a jump if I look at the size/skill level on the jump and think "This is likely to be a shit show." It means I'm likely to sit down when winds start to get wonky. Those are just some examples, but you get the idea.

I don't know about others, but I constantly reassess the risk/reward equation. For now, it still pencils out for me. At some point, it might not pencil out, either because of an increase (either real or perceived) in the risk, or a decrease in the reward.


That's exactly what my post was after, thanks for the reply.

I don't really bother with the statistics too much and I try to temper what I read on forums. If I were to believe what I read about motorcycles, be it in the news, on forums or in statistics I'd have a pretty inaccurate picture in my head. I can only assume with skydiving, but I imagine at least some of the same risk perception inaccuracies are in play... from both sides of the fence.

Again, this isn't an attempt to discout the risks involved. In both cases they're very real.

I'm new myself, but by your avatar pic, we share a common background. As a trackday rider, you'll be much better equipped mentally to learn skydiving safely. Things will slow down for you faster than most and you will relate skills and happenings in jumping to being on a bike esp. on the track. Like others have said, learn something every jump and keep learning in between visits to the DZ!

Welcome to your new addiction!


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 24, 2012, 5:31 PM
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There's a lot of doom sayers in this sport, much like in the bike community (there's also a reasonably large contingent of motorbike riders hereWink)
But a lot of this sport is "perceived risk", It's not half as extreme as some would have you believe.Sly


(This post was edited by Squeak on Oct 24, 2012, 5:32 PM)


muff528  (D 17609)

Oct 24, 2012, 5:46 PM
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Re: [grimmie] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"There is no such thing as a routine jump!"

Every single time you don a rig and fly in an airplane, be careful.

This right here ^

Each and every jump you make can and will end in a fatality unless you proactively keep that from happening ...beginning with attitude and ongoing training, attention to detail and accepted practices (BSRs), awareness in the air, right down to landing. Even then, it still could end badly. It doesn't matter how many jumps you accumulate, you have to survive each and every one (except maybe the last one.)

Most importantly, Have FUN!Smile


Shredex

Oct 24, 2012, 10:05 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.

I think you might want to give that one another look?

.

Yes, I mean 2% of licensed drivers will die in a motor vehicle accident each year. That's based of the number of licensed drivers vs fatalities per year.


piisfish

Oct 25, 2012, 12:51 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Motorcycles are more dangerous, especially if you're a daily rider like I was.

You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.
You have a 0.006% chance of dying in a skydiving accident.

Completely out of wack. Check your numbers.
64.7 % of statistics are made up


strop45  (D 957)

Oct 25, 2012, 2:20 AM
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In reply to:
You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the road.

I mean 2% of licensed drivers will die in a motor vehicle accident each year. That's based of the number of licensed drivers vs fatalities per year.
Really? These statements say different things.

2% is far too high. I think the number you want is closer 0.02%.

Not every road fatality is a licensed driver
Most skydivers spend more time driving than skydiving and yet I still know more people killed skydiving than driving?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 25, 2012, 3:45 AM
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>You have a 2% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident every time you get on the
>road.

No, you have a .016% chance of dying every year in a motor vehicle. If you drive 180 days a year, that's a .0008% chance of dying every time you get in a motor vehicle.


-Joey-  (B License)

Oct 25, 2012, 3:58 AM
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I don't think it's correct to talk about odds of dying as if it's all based on chance. Your rig doesn't roll a dice or spin a roulette wheel every time you jump to determine if it's your turn to die. Your personal safety decisions are what will determine the outcome. I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing. You really decide your own odds.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 25, 2012, 4:48 AM
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Keep this in mind: Many people get hurt at the dz when they are not jumping. You will also lose more skydiving friends from other causes like cancer, suicide, motorcycles, cars, violence, etc.

The moral of the story is: Live and love however you want, but try to be safe so you can keep doing it.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Oct 25, 2012, 5:17 AM
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Quote:
You really decide your own odds
You can mitigate, but not eliminate, the risk.

No one does everything right all the time (especially when viewed in retrospect). And sometimes shit happens. Don't ever think that you can eliminate the risk entirely. And don't ever think that you can be good enough not to make a mistake.

Wendy P.


TrickyMike  (A 67853)

Oct 25, 2012, 5:49 AM
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Thanks again for the advice.

I'm thinking a canopy control course is something I'll want to do ASAP. Is that something I'd benefit from if I took it, for example, immediately after getting licensed? Or immediately after getting cleared for self supervision? Is that too soon?


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Oct 25, 2012, 6:44 AM
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In reply to:
Thanks again for the advice.

I'm thinking a canopy control course is something I'll want to do ASAP. Is that something I'd benefit from if I took it, for example, immediately after getting licensed? Or immediately after getting cleared for self supervision? Is that too soon?

Yes. Either time would be appropriate (check the guidelines for the specific course that you sign up for - some will want you to have a license, but most will allow you to take it as soon as you're self-supervised).

The other thing to keep in mind is this: don't think of "taking a canopy course" as a "one and done" thing. I know many skydivers (myself included) who take them every couple of years as a refresher, and as a way to set aside a day to focus on the most important life- and limb-saving skill we have. Smile


potatoman  (Student)

Oct 25, 2012, 6:47 AM
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Ignoring the rest of the posts.

I have done:
hang gliding,skydiving,scuba,super biking (track and the highway),gliding,cycling,motox,rally etc.

Out of those, here is my rating for fatalities(some has more injuries, less fatalities):
super bike
motox (more injuries though)
cycling
hang/skydiving
scuba/rally

Most of these since there is more variables. Skydiving has less. Take cycling and jumping. You don't jump through cars, or drunk pilots. Also, there is no gear check, you get on when and where you want, NO RULES>


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 25, 2012, 6:51 AM
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In reply to:
Ignoring the rest of the posts.

I have done:
hang gliding,skydiving,scuba,super biking (track and the highway),gliding,cycling,motox,rally etc.

Out of those, here is my rating for fatalities(some has more injuries, less fatalities):
super bike
motox (more injuries though)
cycling
hang/skydiving
scuba/rally

Most of these since there is more variables. Skydiving has less. Take cycling and jumping. You don't jump through cars, or drunk pilots. Also, there is no gear check, you get on when and where you want, NO RULES>

You just proved you don't know much about skydiving.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 25, 2012, 6:59 AM
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My favorite thing to do is to ride the ZX11 out to the DZ.... Double the fun but the risk factor is exponential!


DaVincisEnvy  (C License)

Oct 25, 2012, 8:39 AM
Post #36 of 55 (1329 views)
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Re: [billvon] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

That sounds a bit more in line with reality. A couple of years ago, after getting a ridiculously high life insurance premium quote when I disclosed my skydiving activities, I decided to crunch those numbers myself. Since the insurance company didn't care what type of motor vehicle I drove, I decided to compare the fatality risk associated with skydiving to that associated with another activity for which the fatality risk was considered so inconsequential as to be excluded from the life insurance premium calculation -- namely, riding a motorcycle.

Using the skydiving data here: http://www.uspa.org/...bid/526/Default.aspx
And the motorcycle safety data here: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810806.pdf

You can calculate that, for 2006 (the most recent year for which data are available in both categories), the fatality risks are:
per vehicle mile traveled on a motorcycle: 3.88E-7
per skydive: 1.03E-5

So, to accumulate the same risk associated with one skydive, you must ride your motorcycle (1.03E-5)/(3.88E-7) = 26.6 miles

Since I live approximately that far from work, it would, statistically-speaking, be safer for me to skydive into work than to ride a motorcycle. When I called the insurance company back to share my findings with their actuaries, they were unsurprisingly uninterested. Unsure


TsunamiGilligan  (C 41364)

Oct 25, 2012, 10:31 AM
Post #37 of 55 (1303 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Good to see that you are reading and being mindful to filter the BS. I'm a relative noob myself, but here's my $.02. As far as statistics, just try not to become one. You know this is dangerous, so it's really all about mitigating the risk. As a student, remember to first and foremost rely on information from your first jump course, and your instructors. Since you won't be doing FJC until the spring, here is some additional reading material that I have enjoyed, and should get you through the off season.

http://skydiveschool.org/
The Skydiver's Handbook - Dan Poynter
The Parachute and Its Pilot - Brian Germain
Above All Else - Dan Brodsky-Chenfeld


adamUK  (C 104423)

Oct 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
Post #38 of 55 (1292 views)
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Re: [cocheese] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Keep this in mind: Many people get hurt at the dz when they are not jumping.

Do not underestimate the number of jumpers that get seriously injured (either physically or emotionally) at the bar during the evening. Seriously: Have you factored this into your thinking?? Tongue


TrickyMike  (A 67853)

Oct 25, 2012, 11:33 AM
Post #39 of 55 (1281 views)
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Re: [adamUK] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Keep this in mind: Many people get hurt at the dz when they are not jumping.

Do not underestimate the number of jumpers that get seriously injured (either physically or emotionally) at the bar during the evening. Seriously: Have you factored this into your thinking?? Tongue

Good point.

There was this one time years ago when my best mate and I spent the night drinking "surprise me" booze drinks in Austin, TX. This young lady in a ridiculously short skirt goes strutting by my buddy... working the room like nobody's business. She passes him and heads up a staircase. He, being male, watches her pass... Nothing really creepy or anything... at least as far as I could tell. ("surprise booze drink" disclaimer).

Anyway, her friend on the other hand, looking to get in on some of the attention walks right up to my bud, SLAPS HIM in the face and yells (more to the room than to him) "Don't look up her skirt YOU LITTLE PERVERT!"

As she turned and walked off I managed to yell (between fits of screeching laughter) "HEY!!!!! He's not little!"

Wink


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 25, 2012, 11:52 AM
Post #40 of 55 (1267 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyway, her friend on the other hand, looking to get in on some of the attention walks right up to my bud, SLAPS HIM in the face and yells (more to the room than to him) "Don't look up her skirt YOU LITTLE PERVERT!"

As she turned and walked off I managed to yell (between fits of screeching laughter) "HEY!!!!! He's not little!"

In reply to:

I've been in this sport quite a while and have always been fairly accurate when I access this like this...

IMO ~ You'll do well in skydiving, you fit right in! Sly


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Oct 25, 2012, 12:03 PM
Post #41 of 55 (1266 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing.

I have heard of fatalities which match your description. A horseshoe with main-reserve entanglement is one example. The horseshoe was believed to be due to the main's lines snagging on a main container flap (the flap, not the grommet).

I suspect that nearly all tandem fatalities would fall in your description above.

Risk can be managed and reduced... but skydiving cannot be made risk free.


ghost47  (A License)

Oct 25, 2012, 12:50 PM
Post #42 of 55 (1245 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing. You really decide your own odds.
So you have never heard of a fatal canopy collision?


muff528  (D 17609)

Oct 25, 2012, 1:19 PM
Post #43 of 55 (1234 views)
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Re: [ghost47] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing. You really decide your own odds.
So you have never heard of a fatal canopy collision?

Those landings are usually "rocky road" ....not "vanilla".


labrys  (D 29848)

Oct 25, 2012, 5:57 PM
Post #44 of 55 (1164 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed / knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did a vanilla landing.

You don't get out much, do you?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 26, 2012, 10:22 AM
Post #45 of 55 (1065 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

> I've never heard of a fatality where the jumper had an AAD turned on, followed /
>knew their emergency procedures, flew a canopy that matched their skill level and did
>a vanilla landing.

I can think of about two dozen. Glove problems, pattern collisions, freefall collisions, hard openings, heart attacks, plane crashes . . .


roostnureye  (D 32166)

Oct 29, 2012, 12:11 PM
Post #46 of 55 (914 views)
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Re: [billvon] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

this shit is more dangerous than BATH SALTS!!!


blueblur  (A 64923)

Oct 29, 2012, 12:24 PM
Post #47 of 55 (909 views)
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Re: [roostnureye] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
this shit is more dangerous than BATH SALTS!!!

even though that shit will make you eat someone's face off their skull!


erdnarob  (D 364)

Oct 31, 2012, 1:46 PM
Post #48 of 55 (831 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

To survive our dangerous sport you should :

1) be healthy physically and mentally, a little bit crazy is fineWink
2) get knowledge on equipment and techniques thru coaches, instructors, books and web sites like
dropzone.com
3) put your jumps together when in progression. Don't spread them in time
4) if possible do some wind tunnel training parallel to real jumps
5) do things at your level. Read USPA regulations and recommendations for your level and stick
with them
6) have a rigger advising you for equipment when ready to buy one
7) know your equipment and how to use it.
8) if technically oriented, take a senior rigger course
9) for group jumping, don't go when the type of jump exceeds your capabilities
10) always perform good main packing
11) when in a group, track away far enough
12) under canopy, have your head on a swivel, danger is everywhere all around you and below
13) try to get a cut away training using a suspended harness including a real fall on a mattress
14) exchange views on skydiving with pairs. They will learn from you and you will learn from them
Good luck and welcome in our sport


andy1  (D 70243)

Nov 1, 2012, 12:37 AM
Post #49 of 55 (791 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a link to some statistics - which may or may not be correct :)
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/...oth/risk/sports.html


gregpso  (Student)

Nov 1, 2012, 6:18 AM
Post #50 of 55 (759 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with squeak re perceived risk... but there is risk and there is no getting around that. Like others have said you can do everything right and still die.

ie canopy collision which is not your fault
The plane can crash Some one tampers with your rig (it happened in London causing double mal)

Freefall collision that is not your fault.

RISK REWARD only you can decide if its worth it for you.


jdfreefly  (D 24037)

Nov 3, 2012, 3:25 PM
Post #51 of 55 (431 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

People often want to know, "How dangerous is skydiving?" Usually when they ask this they are thinking about getting into it, and they want to know how dangerous is this for me, but that's only part of the question. The real question is what will I likely lose, and what will I likely gain if I stick with the sport. Also, this question becomes hard to answer over a longer and longer period of time spent in the sport, there are two ways people stop skydiving…either they quit or they die, so you need to also think about from the aspect of how long you stick with it.

What might I lose?

Obviously, you may die or be injured so badly that wish you had died. But that is a small portion of the risk.

If you stick with it for 1-2 years, the odds are pretty good that you will lose a lot of money. Somewhere on the order 0f $10K in the first year would be my guess, but I speak from my experience of learning to skydive in 1997, I'm sure it's more these days. Assuming you're a straight male (this is my experience so I'll speak to it) you will probably also lose at least one relationship to the sport, either because she gets sick of taking a back seat to jumping, or because you just seem to be a less stable choice than the guy who just wants to watch football on the weekends. You'll probably lose some friends as well. Some friendships can't really survive the neglect that a skydiving obsession will bring.

What about if you stick with the sport for 5 years? Well, there the odds of "bad" things happening changes significantly. You will likely go to a funeral of someone you knew who died in a skydiving accident. Maybe not a close friend, maybe just someone you've shared a beer with around the campfire, but you will be somewhat disturbed by the fact that your fun now has a body count. The odds of you having done something to require metal be inserted into your body also go up significantly. With any luck, one of your closer friends at the same experience level will have ponied up their body for the metal insertion in front of you, so you'll have a chance to learn from them and not make the same mistake, but the odds are real good that if you and 10 friends of the same age started together and stuck with it for 5 years one of you would have been carried away by an ambulance or a medivac helicopter.

What if you stick with it for 10 years? The odds of you yourself dying start to go down significantly, you find your sweet spot, you stop taking so many chances with canopy selection and you've acquired the skill to not only get yourself out of trouble when it shows up, but to see it coming and avoid it before you even get on the plane. The odds of you having escaped the phenomenon of a close friend dying in the sport however are quite low, as are the odds of you not having done something to require metal being inserted into your body.

Man…lost of downsides and loss or life events to deal with. So if that's the case, why would anyone do it?

What might I gain?

That is entirely up to you. It is a sport and community where you get out what you put in. But you may gain all of the following:

A life less ordinary. My friends who's lives revolve around the weekend golf outings listen with sincere interest as I talk about my New Year's skydiving trip to Mexico or my weekend skydiving outings. I've given up a lot to get where I am in the sport, but there are no regrets there.

You may never look at a clear blue sky or a limp flag the same way. I have an almost pavlovian response to these stimuli now. It's interesting to me to see people going about their day, blissfully unaware of a world that exists right above their heads.

You may have a group of friends who you may not see every day, but you feel closer and more connected to than you ever did before.

You may gain a perspective on life that few get, the little things will bother you less and you may even learn to focus more on the things that matter and less on the things that don't.

You may notice changes to your problem solving abilities. I think that seeing the world inverted or facing life and death decisions on a regular basis has some effect on the way our brain works, and in turn improves our ability to solve problems.

You may learn to care more about others. As I stick around the sport longer, and have experienced more than my share of loss related to it, I find my self becoming more passionately devoted to keeping others safe. I try to keep the skygod attitude to a minimum, not because I'm humble but because it just doesn't help me get people to listen.

This is just off the top of my head. But for me, while I don't easily dismiss all I have dealt with, lost or given up to be a skydiver for 15 years it has been well worth it.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Nov 3, 2012, 4:17 PM
Post #52 of 55 (425 views)
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Re: [jdfreefly] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well said, very well said...


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 4, 2012, 6:17 AM
Post #53 of 55 (387 views)
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Re: [jdfreefly] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

~ and there may come a point in time, in which you take a hard look at the sport & your life...

You realize that you've been spending tons of money, wasting an incredible amount of time & have very little if nothing to show for it.







...so you take out an ad to sell all your shit & head to the drop-zone ~ where life is GOOD & things make sense! Sly


dlcobbett  (C 3338)

Nov 4, 2012, 7:26 AM
Post #54 of 55 (374 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot of talk about statistics in this thread and I would ignore all of them. It was mentioned that numbers can say anything if you tease them enough, and that is the truth. An example to simply prove the point (using made up numbers to simply illustrate)

If it was said "20% of all motor vehicle accidents are caused by drunk drivers", in the same breath you could also say that "80% of all motor vehicle fatalities are caused by people who were completely sober".

Let's not dance around the truth. In skydiving, the risk is always the same - you can be seriously injured, disabled, or even killed on every single jump.

The odds of any of those outcomes occuring are completely fluid and variable. You have a great deal of influence and control in reducing the odds. Some examples of things within your power to control are:

1. Never ever stop learning. If you think you know everything there is to know, it's time to quit.
2. Take progression slowly and intelligently. Don't go on a jump beyond your level of ability or proficiency
3. Don't invite others on a jump with you beyond their level of ability
4. Don't jump gear you are unfamiliar with. grabbing a friends rig andjust hopping on a plane without a briefing and familiarization training is dangerous.
5. Familiarize yourself with the surroundings, particularly when traveling to new DZ's (landing area, outs, etc)
6. Never be afraid to ask for advice.

The list is really endless, but if you respect the sport and the risks,you can have an incredibly long and safe life in this sport. You can havea significant influence on the odds.

Industry, technology, equipment, and the sport in general have evolved to make things safer for all of us, but you have control over many of the variables, and in turn, the odds.

Jump smart, and stay safe. The risk is
In reply to:
worth the reward.


TrickyMike  (A 67853)

Nov 5, 2012, 6:18 AM
Post #55 of 55 (322 views)
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Re: [TrickyMike] New guy here... How dangerous is this stuff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks again for all of these responses. I agree with the risk vs reward approach and it's one I'm all too familiar with. Most people only see the risks. Maybe we see rewards that whuffos don't? Maybe our perception of the reward is skewed a little? I can't really say, but even if that is true I don't ever see a day where I'm happy with a life of workweeks followed by weekends mowing the lawn and watching football. I know plenty of people who seem like this is all they need to feel like they're "living" but I can't say that I've ever understood any of them. I guess that suit just doesn't fit me.



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