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Farflung

Oct 14, 2012, 3:21 PM
Post #36826 of 55082 (32914 views)
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 Even More Maths And Stuff, Or Another Bud Light [In reply to] Can't Post
Here’s a bonus math problem for those that believe Flight 305 could have been off course for some unknown number of miles, but can’t figure any potential limits. It’s a brain teaser that could be used with great pedantic effect at work tomorrow, cuz chicks dig, guys who dig maths.

There was a series of goals which were on the ‘Red Bull Stratos’ list of things to accomplish:

1. Set a new altitude record for skydiving.

2. Achieve mach-plus in a freefall.

3. Break the freefall time record.

What we have here is the old equation about Good, Fast and Cheap….. pick two. You can’t have all three….. or do we?

So do the lines cross where achieving mach (going way fast) would eliminate the ability to break the longest freefall (which favors going wicked slower)? Were they ever separate and equally achievable goals from FL1200 (I made up the FL as they only go to three digits) to BFE, New Mexico (KROW Field Elevation 3,671)?

It’s so science-y!

RobertMBlevins

Oct 14, 2012, 3:28 PM
Post #36827 of 55082 (32911 views)
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Here’s a bonus math problem for those that believe Flight 305 could have been off course for some unknown number of miles, but can’t figure any potential limits. It’s a brain teaser that could be used with great pedantic effect at work tomorrow, cuz chicks dig, guys who dig maths.

There was a series of goals which were on the ‘Red Bull Stratos’ list of things to accomplish:

1. Set a new altitude record for skydiving.

2. Achieve mach-plus in a freefall.

3. Break the freefall time record.

What we have here is the old equation about Good, Fast and Cheap….. pick two. You can’t have all three….. or do we?

So do the lines cross where achieving mach (going way fast) would eliminate the ability to break the longest freefall (which favors going wicked slower)? Were they ever separate and equally achievable goals from FL1200 (I made up the FL as they only go to three digits) to BFE, New Mexico (KROW Field Elevation 3,671)?

It’s so science-y!

#1 and #2=Yes

#3=No

Georger: Go whine to Red Bull. They're the ones who put up those speed numbers.

georger

Oct 14, 2012, 5:05 PM
Post #36828 of 55082 (32882 views)
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Georger: Go whine to Red Bull. They're the ones who put up those speed numbers.
HUH!?

Speed numbers?

RobertMBlevins

Oct 14, 2012, 5:48 PM
Post #36829 of 55082 (32878 views)
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 Re: [georger] Even More Maths And Stuff, Or Another Bud Light [In reply to] Can't Post
Georger: Go whine to Red Bull. They're the ones who put up those speed numbers.

HUH!?

Speed numbers?
Well, since virtually every post where you comment on something I've said is an insult...I accidentally mixed up you and Farf. An understandable error, considering your history.

Farf: Go whine to Red Bull...etc.

smokin99

Oct 14, 2012, 6:11 PM
Post #36830 of 55082 (32869 views)
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Georger: Go whine to Red Bull. They're the ones who put up those speed numbers.

HUH!?

Speed numbers?

Well, since virtually every post where you comment on something I've said is an insult...I accidentally mixed up you and Farf. An understandable error, considering your history.

Farf: Go whine to Red Bull...etc.
Blevins: Maybe you should go back to Red Bull, read the numbers, then re-read Farf's post and maybe you'll get what he means.

(This post was edited by smokin99 on Oct 14, 2012, 6:15 PM)

Robert99

Oct 14, 2012, 6:42 PM
Post #36831 of 55082 (32859 views)
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Georger: Go whine to Red Bull. They're the ones who put up those speed numbers.

HUH!?

Speed numbers?

Well, since virtually every post where you comment on something I've said is an insult...I accidentally mixed up you and Farf. An understandable error, considering your history.

Farf: Go whine to Red Bull...etc.

Blevins: Maybe you should go back to Red Bull, read the numbers, then re-read Farf's post and maybe you'll get what he means.
Blevins, Before you start accepting the "Mach plus" number from Red Bull as "Revealed Truth From On High", please answer a few simple questions to help alleviate my ignorance on the subject.

1. What is the definition of "Mach Number"?

2. What is the speed of sound in a vacuum?

3. What is the speed of sound in a "near vacuum"?

4. Is speed of sound "measured directly" or is it "calculated"?

5. What is the temperature in a vacuum?

6. What is the temperature in a "near vacuum"?

7. How is temperature in a vacuum or near vacuum determined?

8. Are factors such as "g" (the acceleration due gravity) and "R" (the universal gas constant) used either directly or indirectly in determining the speed of sound?

9. Are any of the factors used in determining the speed of sound a function of altitude, temperature, or any other physical parameter that was encountered in today's jump?

Robert99

RobertMBlevins

Oct 14, 2012, 6:50 PM
Post #36832 of 55082 (32857 views)
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Robert99: Already been to school, and you aren't my teacher. If you have a different velocity or whatever, just say so. Sure, I'll buy it.

How about this: He jumped from REALLY REALLY high and landed somewhere in the New Mexico desert without killing himself. On the way down, he was probably going REALLY FRIGGIN' FAST. (*laughs*)

Edit: Link to the last 14 minutes of the jump at YouTube. Maybe if you bounce a radar beam off Felix's image in the video, you can determine his exact speed. You never know.

You guys kill me sometimes, you really do.

*Goes back to Sunday Night Football*

(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Oct 14, 2012, 6:59 PM)

skyjack71

Oct 14, 2012, 7:02 PM
Post #36833 of 55082 (32845 views)
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I cannot remember the name of the program and right now I don't care. I have files about how that system was set up and the dates and the facts - it took yrs to get all the states up-to-date.

Not all old records were added. I will say for certain that in 1971 - most OLD records were NOT with in the system.

The FBI was more interested in getting the violent crimes and recent records into the system - they NEVER did imput some prison records into the system
.
Some were just too old and had to be manually put into the system because the original file was just that a paper file. If I remember correctly if a record was 30 yrs old it was ignored till a later date and some not at all.
No urgency to place records in the system of deceased - that was counter productive for the purpose the system was developed for.

In 1995 when Duane died
His last conviction was 1966 and that was 29 yrs. The destruction of files as I remember it are if they are over 35 yrs...the paperwork can be destroyed in lieu of a brief note in the Central System.

The FBI REFUSED to allow me access to the Jefferson file until the actual files had been destroyed at 35 yrs. THEN Carr says you can get it on the computer - BULL CRAP. For 6 yrs I begged to see that file - but I was NOT the widow of John Collins....they knew exactly what I was after. I begged for that file! WE spent a lot of money trying to get that file BEFORE destruction.

The Canon FILE we managed to get just on destruction cusp. It was acquired before the dead line in 1998/99...they had NOT destroyed the file - hence the sign-in and out, plus the extra pictures.

The SanQentin/Folsom - file was just a summary - as the back file had already been destroyed. Therefore it was puzzle figuring out the codes left on one page.

The McNeil - A woman actually went into the archives to see if the detail files still existed. What she found actually made the System look terrible. They had NEVER verified Weber's birthdate and had his birthdate incorrect by several yrs. The details had been destroyed...but the errors the FBI ignored in their investigation of WEBER screamed that the FAMILY had told me the truth and the FBI did NOT even catch the error of birthdates.

The FBI DID NOT look at the system that existed in McNeil during that time at the end of the war. I gave you guys a BRIEF history lesson regarding McNeil a few pages back.

Since you guys seem to want to waste time repeating things already discussed and investigated to death - go ahead. Someone within this forum verified that the SYSTEM was NOT all in place in 1971 or 1978. It was into the 80's and still there were flaws and records never entered....and some never would be.

I would later receive details involved in the SYSTEM - The Government WANTED to make people think it was further along than it really was - (supposedly a crime deterent for repeat offenders). I guess this worked for Weber - when he skyjacked a plane and as a repeat offender was arrested in 1976 - an offense with his priors that should have put him away for a long time (IF THE SYSTEM HAD WORKED and/or implemented at 100%)!

Some of you seem to ignore this - Cooper was Print phobic.

I won't argue the point anymore - because I have been there and done that. I suggest that you guys talk to some of the OLDsters (if you can find any of the from the 60's who developed the program and those later who were responsible for inputing the data). SUGGESTION: Find a 1978 input data person who actually worked these files.

The one I found retired in the late 1980's and I was told that some files would never be put into the system. CLASSIFIED and/ or too old or subject DECEASED.

THE GOVERNMENT WANTED THE CRIMINALS TO THINK - it was solid and that everything was there - that was propaganda to deter repeat offenders. It worked in some cases.

(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Oct 14, 2012, 7:32 PM)

Robert99

Oct 14, 2012, 7:08 PM
Post #36834 of 55082 (32839 views)
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Robert99: Already been to school, and you aren't my teacher. If you have a different velocity or whatever, just say so. Sure, I'll buy it.

How about this: He jumped from REALLY REALLY high and landed somewhere in the New Mexico desert without killing himself. On the way down, he was probably going REALLY FRIGGIN' FAST. (*laughs*)

Edit: Link to the last 14 minutes of the jump at YouTube. Maybe if you bounce a radar beam off Felix's image in the video, you can determine his exact speed. You never know.

You guys kill me sometimes, you really do.

*Goes back to Sunday Night Football*

Blevins, What the heck? You claim to be a teacher of writing or whatever to the children of Auburn, or at least those that find their way to the Auburn theater.

Now a genuine student seeking knowledge (meaning me) has been flipped off by you. I AM disappointed.

Robert99

Robert99

Oct 14, 2012, 7:19 PM
Post #36835 of 55082 (33061 views)
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Since you guys seem to want to waste time repeating things that have already been discussed and investigated to death - go ahead.

Jo, I am shocked by your statement! If you know of a single person on this thread who does that, report them to Quade and ask thay they be permanently banned! I'm sure that any number of others on this thread will also support you on that.

Robert99

mrshutter45

Oct 14, 2012, 7:20 PM
Post #36836 of 55082 (33060 views)
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Jo, I don't understand how you can't understand the FBI has over 25 sets of his prints! just because Ohio didn't know what he did in
Texas doesn't change the fact of the prints being sent to the FBI. (Ohio/ Texas are examples)

"The prints were forwarded to the FBI just like all of the other 26 arrests under his various alias names."

they could have missed 50 as I mentioned before, the bottom line is they have his prints.

also as I mentioned, the picture of Duane in 1968 is not very convincing of him being Cooper IMHO

another hurdle to get over is the fact of him always wearing glasses, almost all of your pictures shows him wearing glasses.

skyjack71

Oct 14, 2012, 7:20 PM
Post #36837 of 55082 (33058 views)
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Since it is obvious that some of you have not done your homework regarding this (the Fingerprint System) - I have more important issues to work on. I am NOT evading you - but telling you to do your OWN investigation into this. PUT your TIME and YOUR money on the line like I did...to acquire the information.

(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Oct 14, 2012, 7:24 PM)

mrshutter45

Oct 14, 2012, 7:31 PM
Post #36838 of 55082 (33053 views)
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no problem!

skyjack71

Oct 14, 2012, 7:39 PM
Post #36839 of 55082 (33044 views)
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 Re: [Robert99] Finger Prints [In reply to] Can't Post
Since you guys seem to want to waste time repeating things that have already been discussed and investigated to death - go ahead.

Jo, I am shocked by your statement! If you know of a single person on this thread who does that, report them to Quade and ask thay they be permanently banned! I'm sure that any number of others on this thread will also support you on that.

Robert99

YOU ARE TAKING THAT ENTIRELY OUT OF CONTEXT. I was referring to the Criminal Data Base. I have current things to do and they do NOT include going back over something I have already handled. The information they are obtaining was exactly the propaganda the authorities wanted the people to buy into in the 70's, but the program was NOT something they could just hire a few data personel and have them input the old files. IT took YRS. There are still input errors and mistakes - and they are only found if someone needs that particular piece of information.

skyjack71

Oct 14, 2012, 7:42 PM
Post #36840 of 55082 (33063 views)
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 Re: [mrshutter45] Finger Prints [In reply to] Can't Post

no problem!

For Heaven Sake - you all are acting like a bunch of teenages.
!

The statement was ONLY in reference to the FINGER PRINT SYSTEM...nothing else. I worked this and so did others at a great deal of time, effort and expense....what I have regarding the fingerprint system was mostly obtained at a GREAT deal of expense and time on my part.

Speaking of Safe Deposit Boxes - I have to go. We have so many irons in the fire and I am trying to stay on top of what is going on in the thread at the same time.

Sorry if ANYONE thought I was referencing any part of this in a derogatory manner to anyone.
I was NOT referencing anything but the Finger Print SYSTEM and
Central prison records.

(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Oct 14, 2012, 7:52 PM)

smokin99

Oct 14, 2012, 7:43 PM
Post #36841 of 55082 (33061 views)
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Quote:
How about this: He jumped from REALLY REALLY high and landed somewhere in the New Mexico desert without killing himself. On the way down, he was probably going REALLY FRIGGIN' FAST. (*laughs*)

Lol...Blevins, you probably wouldn't be catching any grief if you had just said this in the first place?

Quote:
Edit: Link to the last 14 minutes of the jump at YouTube. Maybe if you bounce a radar beam off Felix's image in the video, you can determine his exact speed. You never know.

You guys kill me sometimes, you really do.

*Goes back to Sunday Night Football*

No one needs to bounce a radar beam...The way I figure if the mission team didn't get his exact speed, then in some ways, this experiment is all for naught. But that's not the point. I'm reasonably sure they got it right.

Here's what kills me...you just put stuff out there without checking or really even reading the facts and then you shrug it off like it's no big deal when someone calls you on it.
And if it's not a big deal -- why post it in the first place or respond when someone points out that what you posted was inaccurate?

Hell even on terra firma a difference of a mere 5 miles/hr in speed can increase a fine anywhere from \$250,00 - \$500.00. Maybe more if past offenses. My point being -- Accuracy is indeed relative to this mission.

(This post was edited by smokin99 on Oct 14, 2012, 7:46 PM)

Robert99

Oct 14, 2012, 7:47 PM
Post #36842 of 55082 (33057 views)
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no problem!

For Heaven Sake - you all are acting alike a bunch of teenages.
!

Jo, Have you been appointed our Den Mother? I didn't get the memo.

Robert99

Farflung

Oct 14, 2012, 7:54 PM
Post #36843 of 55082 (33053 views)
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Mr. Science, I’m hopelessly lost when it comes to calculating speeds and women. Could you teach me how to be faster with both? Sincerely, Un-functionally Literate.

Of course Mr. Science can help you Un-func. But something tells Mr. Science that you have underestimated exactly how much help you would need with women, and Mr. Science can’t change time, physics or someone who showers with, drinks and excretes ‘girl repellant’ out of every syllable uttered. But Mr. Science can help you with things like calculating speeds.

You may use km/h or mph depending on the model of Segway you ride. Since Mr. Science is a heterosexual, he must convert speed measurements to MPH. I’ll begin by reading the ‘Red Bull’ site which is predominantly in English. There is a reference to 1.24 mach at roughly 1,342.8 km/h which converts to a chick magnety 832.5 MPH (Manly Perfect He-man). Anyone could convert these values with access to the internet and any free time, which some struggle with because they can’t chew gum, watch TV and get things right the first time. Mr. Science can parallel process many things and keep those skills honed, which others can only bitch and complain about. Mr. Science understands their envy.

Now that the speed is known in MPH, one could ‘back in’ the values from a table of altitudes. Mr. Science found one that goes to 60,000 feet which lists the speed of sound at 659.8 MPH. Oh nooooooooo! Mr. Science made a mistake because that speed doesn’t match…. Psych… Mr. Science is simply amusing himself with others ignorance and inadequacies, which manifest in puffing as a form of failed overcompensation. For the 659.8 must be multiplied by the mach value, which results in 818 miles per hour for 1.24 mach at 60,000 feet. That’s a solution which is within 2% of the ‘Red Bull’ numbers, and close enough for ‘private sector’ work.

Mr. Science has been more than happy to explain in detail, something which more than likely makes little sense to the ‘Twitter’ generation, who have clearly mastered technology, rather than be its bitch.

Remember, whenever you need an honest, humble and accurate answer, you can always; Ask Mr. Science!
Attachments: Mr Science.jpg (140 KB)

skyjack71

Oct 14, 2012, 8:08 PM
Post #36844 of 55082 (33045 views)
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no problem!

For Heaven Sake - you all are acting alike a bunch of teenages.
!

Jo, Have you been appointed our Den Mother? I didn't get the memo.

Robert99

Ro

Robert99 - that is nit picking! You pick out a phrase in my post and try to encite others by using that phrase from my post without taking it in full context so the meaning can be made clear. THAT is NOT very nice.

YOU ARE trying to encite problems and that is a problem! I have NOT made any derogatory statements. There is a lot going on regarding Cooper right now and I refuse to be dragged into a childish free for all...by someone with another agenda....namely to discredit me in any way you can or to encite others to attack me!

You have done this before and I just ignored you.. I have TOO MUCH to do RIGHT now regarding other things about WEBER/Cooper and I don't need to deal with your harassing me.

smokin99

Oct 14, 2012, 8:47 PM
Post #36845 of 55082 (33026 views)
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One last post about the jump.

Whatever the final results are certified to be...It was pretty awesome (and i mean that literally)

I get the heebie jeebies everytime I watch it at the part before he steps off. Looked like way too much stuff to snag his suit on. And the part where he was tumbling/spinning was tense.

Some random tweets:

That awkward moment when you realize an energy drink has a better space program than your nation.

It is clear that Felix dude is not a cat. We cats have way more sense than that.

FUN FACT: The capsule has a special compartment to accommodate Felix Baumgartner's enormous balls.

Mission accomplished!

georger

Oct 14, 2012, 9:01 PM
Post #36846 of 55082 (33018 views)
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One last post about the jump.

Whatever the final results are certified to be...It was pretty awesome (and i mean that literally)

!

agree. any idea if the chute opened automatically
at some altitude? at what velocity?

Farflung

Oct 14, 2012, 9:08 PM
Post #36847 of 55082 (33013 views)
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Couldn’t agree more smokin99; having some caffeine and taurine (read: speed) laced soft drink, pimp slap NASA is astonishing. Being able to watch an aerospace record being broken, live, in my boxer shorts, only adds to the irony of how far the pendulum must swing in the other direction. Like twitter, Lisa Nowak and the DBC thread.

Oct 14, 2012, 10:02 PM
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http://www.dropzone.com/...t;postatt_id=135741;

RobertMBlevins

Oct 14, 2012, 11:08 PM
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From Juan Carlos Riorca's article for the Associated Press:

Quote:
'ROSWELL — Officials say that Felix Baumgartner has become the first skydiver to break the speed of sound.

At a news conference, Brian Utley of the International Federation of Sports Aviation said Baumgartner reached a maximum speed of 833.9 mph during his jump Sunday over the New Mexico desert.

That amounts to Mach 1.24, which is faster than the speed of sound. No one has ever reached that speed wearing only a high-tech suit...'

MeyerLouie

Oct 14, 2012, 11:28 PM
Post #36850 of 55082 (32989 views)
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RobertMBlevins comments without the use of data or thinking one (1) step downstream about his review with:

“1) Weber may have claimed on his deathbed that he was Dan Cooper, but there are no other witnesses to that alleged statement.”

And that’s exactly one witness more than RobertMBlevins had regarding Dan Cooper comics, Captain Scott talking to Cooper and Bernie breaking into a home and stealing a logbook.

RobertMBlevins ignores an oft repeated and genuine piece of evidence with:

“2) Weber cannot be linked to any verifiable parachute experience. And no one in a sane state of mind would attempt leaping out the back of a moving 727 without at least some prior experience.”

For the ‘Nth’ time, MARTIN MCNALLY JUMPED FROM A 727 WITHOUT ANY EXPERIENCE. He hijacked the most planes, had the most money and NO experience. Never had even touched a parachute before, but please, keep ignoring this evidence and history in your battle of wills.

RobertMBlevins obliquely infers:

“3) None of the stews or witnesses have even HINTED that Weber could be the hijacker from pictures.”

Gee is this some, oh gosh, you know, umm…, have I mentioned this before, a Stewardess said Kenny was the closest she had seen before, but Tina and Alice didn’t say squat, but I just left that out of my question, because I’m passive aggressive like that, and then form a leading statement, even though I deny any such activity statement? Yes.

He then continues like a runaway freight train with:

“4) The physical evidence, if any, is lost or otherwise unaccounted for.”

Like his fingerprints and DNA?

RobertMBlevins adds a non-sequitur to a non-sequitur with:

“5) The witness who said handwriting in a Cooper book was Weber's has retracted her story, or refuses to confirm.”

And if the handwriting in the Cooper book is Duane’s that would prove that he read a book on Cooper after the event, thus damning him to have done what? All it proves is there are many delusionals willing to reinforce the quality of this research with a random 50cc squirt of intellectual diarrhea.

RobertMBlevins continues to steer with the use of another non-sequitur:

“6) Weber cannot be positively placed in the NW United States at the time of the hijacking.”

If a person’s fingerprints or DNA matches the samples in FBI evidence, BUT can’t be placed in the NW United States they are exonerated? This only makes sense on this thread.

RobertMBlevins tweaks the nose of Captain Obvious with:

“7) None of Weber's ex-wives or other family members have offered definitive evidence leading to the possibility Weber was the hijacker.”

Neither has anyone else since ‘definitive evidence’ would lead to an investigation by the FBI, then the ‘definitive evidence’ would be used in a court of law to convict the hijacker.

Occam experiences forced ‘manlove’ with:

“8) Occam's Razor might suggest that with so many previous arrests and the extensive hunt for the hijacker, that Weber would have been discovered reletively quickly.”

Occam screams that an employee of the airline would be identified relatively quickly as well.

RobertMBlevins peers deep into a pool of irony by stating:

“9) Weber's occasional behaviors, (if true) such as tossing a bag off a bridge and taking his wife on a NW trip and dropping hints...might suggest he was living a fantasy and secretly wanted to be Cooper. Most of his life he was a loser. Maybe he wanted to be a winner, and used his wife to further those ends. If this is true, it only shows he was selfish and sentenced her to a life of endless hunting for a truth that was never there.”

Much the way Lyle said he never believed that Kenny was Cooper, but sparked some brain dead investigation which defied every statistic known to science, by ‘proving’ Kenny was coincidentally Cooper.

Captain Obvious hasn’t left the building with:

“10) The FBI did an obviously thorough investigation and may have discovered the same things.”

If Kenny isn’t Cooper, then perhaps, it’s someone else.
------------------------------------------------------------
Blevins, I think Jo has pretty much shot down all of your arguments against her theory and premises. When I look at your KC=DBC theory, I have to ask, "where's the beef?" What proof have you offered? Zip. Don't think you have any room to criticize anybody else's lack of proof. That's pretty arrogant, Grand Miestro Peepee. Go practice your guitar now.

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