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"Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain

 

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BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Oct 8, 2012, 3:38 PM
Post #26 of 50 (1380 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

 I find that larger pilotchutes are helpful on low speed deployments, and as a canopy course director, I find myself deploying subterminal quite often. I don't find that my Sensei openable harder at terminal as a result, surprisingly.


DougH  (D License)

Oct 8, 2012, 3:50 PM
Post #27 of 50 (1371 views)
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Re: [BrianSGermain] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

Brian, how many jumps do you get out of those F111 pilot chutes before they need replacing?


BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Oct 8, 2012, 6:49 PM
Post #28 of 50 (1345 views)
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In reply to:
Brian, how many jumps do you get out of those F111 pilot chutes before they need replacing?

1-2000 jumps. I have pushed it further without problem, and have extended the life of the PC significantly by spraying it with food grade silicone. Works with F-111 canopies as well!


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 8, 2012, 7:58 PM
Post #29 of 50 (1334 views)
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Re: [BrianSGermain] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I find that larger pilotchutes are helpful on low speed deployments, and as a canopy course director, I find myself deploying subterminal quite often. I don't find that my Sensei openable harder at terminal as a result, surprisingly.

I hadnt thought about how many H&Ps you do. Dah You are fortunate that a PC that large doesnt increase the snatch force on your Sensei considering how light it is.

Sparky


BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Oct 8, 2012, 10:01 PM
Post #30 of 50 (1315 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I find that larger pilotchutes are helpful on low speed deployments, and as a canopy course director, I find myself deploying subterminal quite often. I don't find that my Sensei openable harder at terminal as a result, surprisingly.

I hadnt thought about how many H&Ps you do. Dah You are fortunate that a PC that large doesnt increase the snatch force on your Sensei considering how light it is.

Sparky

I had great openings on my Samurai and Jedei as well, despite using large pilotchutes. Perhaps the correlation is not what we thought.

"Openable": a new word invented by my iPhone Spell-Checker. Whoever wrote the code for these devices obviously has a devious sense of humor.


ctrph8  (D License)

Oct 8, 2012, 10:10 PM
Post #31 of 50 (1310 views)
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Re: [scottd818] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
has anyone tried this method with a Infinity rig. I called them but they didnt know about it and said i was welcome to try it at my own risk.



I packed one on Sunday that way. It works just fine. Pretty much it is the same closing sequence for all of these containers. There are a few exceptions but in general it is the same across the board.


ctrph8  (D License)

Oct 8, 2012, 10:40 PM
Post #32 of 50 (1299 views)
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Re: [BrianSGermain] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Interesting observation. I'm going to have a longer chat with the local rigger. He doesn't like that method of pilot chute packing due to a potential for a hard pull. Until this weekend I used to pack the.way you recommend. I love the discussions when they get to trading off between hard choices - makes you think.Smile


Brian's Response:

Hard pull? I have been packing my pilotchutes this way for more than twenty five years, and I have never had a hard pull. I even use oversized F-111 pilotchutes due to a high frequency of hop-n-pops. Further, I have never heard of anyone having a hard a hard pull from this packing method. You mentioned that you have been packing this way. Have you ever experienced a hard pull from this method? Anyone?

I say, always go with your gut. If your instincts have been telling you to pack this way, keep doing it. If you have a hard pull, let me know. Unless you have a cordura pouch, your risks of a hard pull are very low regardless of how you pack, due to the elasticity of the spandex. Don't let others dissuade you from what your gut is telling you, ever. Even if you are wrong, at least you are honoring your instincts.

My 2 cents...


I have a theory about one of the ways the hard pull fears got started.

When I was a beginning packer I was packing for a guy who had pull out rigs. They were really tight. I had a pull out at the time but the container had lots of room in it so I had not really thought much about this. One day I packed him a total. When he got down we figured out that I did not leave him enough slack in the bridle to actually extract the pin. In my rig it didn't matter because my pack jobs were not as tight and allowed for movement... or I just managed to pack him the perfect storm. Either way, it was a lesson learned.

Fast forward to today's discussion. In the method we are talking about, the bridle looks a bit like the pull out bridles but the mechanism is entirely different. The pull is from above and there is never a chance that my scenario could happen.

My suspicion is that many of the fears we are seeing are from people who learned good info about how to effectively pack pull outs but trying to apply it to the throw out system... or more likely, applying the lesson to the wrong scenario because it looks a little like what we remembered.


nigel99  (D 1)

Oct 9, 2012, 1:07 AM
Post #33 of 50 (1277 views)
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Re: [ctrph8] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

No, the discusion I had was specific to pilot chute packing and had nothing to do with bridle routing at the time. It is difficult to describe, but the rigger 'demonstrated' why he felt my current method might result in a hard pull.

I intend to video his demonstration and alternative method for discussion at some point.


luis  (D License)

Oct 9, 2012, 1:07 AM
Post #34 of 50 (1277 views)
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Re: [BrianSGermain] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Have you ever experienced a hard pull from this method? Anyone? ...

I have! Twice actually.
Years ago, on a brand new Mirage G3, standard F111 PC (whatever size it was on Mirage back then).
Both times pulled using two hands - didn't know that was possible before Smile.

The pouch was tight and maybe I didn't pay enough attention when packing.
Anyway, it never happened again, and I still use your packing method for over 2000 jumps ...the deltoids machine at the local gym must have helped as well Wink


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Oct 9, 2012, 3:40 AM
Post #35 of 50 (1253 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was using a 24" ZP on a 245 Sharpchuter and having great openings.

No delays on hop-n-pops?


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:06 AM
Post #36 of 50 (1243 views)
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Re: [nigel99] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No, the discusion I had was specific to pilot chute packing and had nothing to do with bridle routing at the time. It is difficult to describe, but the rigger 'demonstrated' why he felt my current method might result in a hard pull.

I intend to video his demonstration and alternative method for discussion at some point.
i'd be interested in seeing that too as he is also my rigger and i have been using Brian method for near 10 years, and advocating it as a method to reduce hard pulls.


nigel99  (D 1)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:13 AM
Post #37 of 50 (1238 views)
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Re: [Squeak] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
No, the discusion I had was specific to pilot chute packing and had nothing to do with bridle routing at the time. It is difficult to describe, but the rigger 'demonstrated' why he felt my current method might result in a hard pull.

I intend to video his demonstration and alternative method for discussion at some point.
i'd be interested in seeing that too as he is also my rigger and i have been using Brian method for near 10 years, and advocating it as a method to reduce hard pulls.

If you're at the dz saturday, we can do the video :) that way Andy will also be available for questions.


Southern_Man  (C License)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:25 AM
Post #38 of 50 (1234 views)
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Re: [RMURRAY] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Standard racer closing method for twenty plus years :)

exactly so don't need to change the way I close mine...but I pack for others so will look to close this way if they are OK with it. thanks Brian excellent post as usual.

I pack for others as well, including rental and student gear. I personally use the Germain method for packing my pilot chute. I have packed the bridal both out the top and out the bottom. I try to remember to ask, as I will pack any way the customer wants, but it is a little confusing to be switching back and forth a lot.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 9, 2012, 10:07 AM
Post #39 of 50 (1191 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I was using a 24" ZP on a 245 Sharpchuter and having great openings.

No delays on hop-n-pops?

Used it on a whole bunch of demos, H&P. No problem.

Sparky


BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Oct 10, 2012, 8:52 AM
Post #40 of 50 (1118 views)
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Re: [nigel99] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

I look forward to the video. I am always interested in hearin feedback of all kinds.

Thank you for the follow up.

Bri


BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Oct 13, 2012, 5:21 PM
Post #41 of 50 (987 views)
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Re: [DocPop] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Brian that seems a little big for such small canopies. I was using a 24" ZP on a 245 Sharpchuter and having great openings.

Sparky



Quote:
I even use oversized F-111 pilotchutes due to a high frequency of hop-n-pops.

I should also point out that I have noticed that F-111 pilotchutes give me more consistent openings overall, and since they have more friction, they are less likely to slip out of the pocket and give me a premature deployment. Zero P is slicker than snot on a glass doorknob.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Oct 14, 2012, 7:51 AM
Post #42 of 50 (944 views)
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Re: [BrianSGermain] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I should also point out that I have noticed that F-111 pilotchutes give me more consistent openings overall.

Please define "more consistent". What exactly do you mean?


BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Oct 14, 2012, 11:47 AM
Post #43 of 50 (925 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

By "more consistent", I mean more on heading, fewer linestwists, and more consistent snatch force and bag lift. The ZP pilotchutes seem to oscillate more since they do not leak any air. An apex vent stabilizes a round canopy, so it is possible that the pores in the fabric have a similar effect.


BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Oct 16, 2012, 9:17 AM
Post #44 of 50 (821 views)
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Re: [Southern_Man] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

We are capable of complex execution when we move slowly and consciously, but when we rush we tend to do the most practiced version of our procedures, right or wrong. When there are multiple possibilities, we must move slow enough to remain in the present moment and think throughout the action.

Slow is smart.


llloyd  (C License)

Oct 16, 2012, 11:37 AM
Post #45 of 50 (796 views)
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Re: [BrianSGermain] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

I tried this method this past weekend and I like it. It raised a couple of eyebrows during flight line checks but at least that shows that my fellow jumpers aren't doing things on auto pilot.

It also lets my pin flap sit a little cleaner over the top of the pin (Teardrop Superfly) which has to be a good thing.

Converted.

Thanks Smile


Southern_Man  (C License)

Oct 16, 2012, 11:59 AM
Post #46 of 50 (788 views)
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Re: [BrianSGermain] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We are capable of complex execution when we move slowly and consciously, but when we rush we tend to do the most practiced version of our procedures, right or wrong. When there are multiple possibilities, we must move slow enough to remain in the present moment and think throughout the action.

Slow is smart.

I'm going to re-ask a question I tried to ask earlier, but either I didn't ask it right or nobody responded. Which rigs have a manufacturer's instructions to route the bridle under the lower flap? Is it mandatory or an alternate approved method?

Vector III does, I know, as an alternate closing method.

Parachutes de France apparently recommends that procedure, I've never seen one of their rigs.

What other manufacturers?


Deyan  (D 322)

Oct 16, 2012, 2:31 PM
Post #47 of 50 (744 views)
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Quote:
What other manufacturers?

Parachute Labs on their Racer series


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 16, 2012, 6:03 PM
Post #48 of 50 (708 views)
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Re: [Southern_Man] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

no one has a "mandatory" packing method as far as i know


smiles  (D 41)

Oct 17, 2012, 3:01 PM
Post #49 of 50 (631 views)
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Re: [BrianSGermain] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

enjoyed your vid,
exellent presentation.

kind of hard for me to follow as
my closing thoughts for 20 yrs.

1. pilot chute belongs inside main container along with excess bridle-
2. straight pin & positive pull


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 17, 2012, 3:24 PM
Post #50 of 50 (622 views)
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Re: [Squeak] "Closing Thoughts" video by Brian Germain [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
no one has a "mandatory" packing method as far as i know

And yet, if it's not in their manual or any subsequent documentation, it's not an approved method.


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