Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident?

 

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popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Oct 7, 2012, 6:54 PM
Post #51 of 127 (3597 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
\

As for being taking seriously and my post numbers.... That's why I try to stick to Bonfire. I'm a joke and I know it, but I take every jump seriously. Peace out.


Well at least you realize you are a joke

So...are you saying that you are the jump number skygod, eh?
How pitiful that you have to expose yourself with your "I got more jumps than you so you don't know shit" BS.

You can take you snobiness up the creek.
Your jump numbers won't buy you a cup of coffee.

Read what the OP said.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Oct 7, 2012, 7:17 PM
Post #52 of 127 (3587 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Let's say that someone wanted to jump with a giant yellow Big Bird strapped to his chest. And someone told him that those flailing arms and legs might be a problem. And next he argued in rebuttal that no one has ever been hurt before jumping with a giant yellow Big Bird, therefore, it doesn't present a problem and should be perfectly safe. Would that be a valid argument in favor of everyone making Big Bird jumps?

At one time, no one ever imagined that anyone could possibly fall out of a tandem harness. And everything went along fine for several decades, and tens of thousands of jumps. Did that mean that there was never any potential for a problem? No. Becaues then it happened. And again. And again.

Do anything often enough for long enough, and something bad will happen because of it.

Bottom line: If it provides no benefit to the jump, and isn't necessary to have, then there's no point in adding the risk, however small that might be.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Oct 7, 2012, 7:27 PM)


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 7, 2012, 7:40 PM
Post #53 of 127 (3562 views)
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     Re: [popsjumper] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
\

As for being taking seriously and my post numbers.... That's why I try to stick to Bonfire. I'm a joke and I know it, but I take every jump seriously. Peace out.


Well at least you realize you are a joke

So...are you saying that you are the jump number skygod, eh?
How pitiful that you have to expose yourself with your "I got more jumps than you so you don't know shit" BS.

You can take you snobiness up the creek.
Your jump numbers won't buy you a cup of coffee.

Read what the OP said.


Actually the OP not reading what both myself and Dave wrote is why I think he is a joke. Neither of us ever claimed it wasn't a risk. All either of us said is we have and do wear hoodies and asked what he thought was the issue. His opinions were met with counter opinions. He continued on to assume we never thought of the risk or that we didn't care.

Again I will state I wear a hoodie, when I might need more drag, or if its cold.

And for the record the hood isn't usually exposed, I usually tuck it under the rig. But the OP never bothered to ask and just assumed it was exposed to the wind.

And Doc you making assumptions midway through the conversation makes you appear to be no better in terms of not paying attention to what was said.


virgin-burner

Oct 7, 2012, 8:55 PM
Post #54 of 127 (3541 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

pUSsIeS SuCk! Smile


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Oct 8, 2012, 6:41 AM
Post #55 of 127 (3492 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:

Would you want a student wearing that stuff? Now a student thinks since Chuck and Dave said it was ok..... I'll wear this stuff..Cool

Hold on there, Skippy. I never said it was ok. Re-read my comment and you will find that I said I had never heard of a problem with hoodies...YET.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 8, 2012, 7:08 AM
Post #56 of 127 (3481 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Let's say that someone wanted to jump with a giant yellow Big Bird strapped to his chest. And someone told him that those flailing arms and legs might be a problem. And next he argued in rebuttal that no one has ever been hurt before jumping with a giant yellow Big Bird, therefore, it doesn't present a problem and should be perfectly safe. Would that be a valid argument in favor of everyone making Big Bird jumps?

Not having heard of any problems alone is not a good reason. Combine that with tens of thousands of jumps wearing a Big Bird on your chest, and you have the makings of a sound argument for the safety of jumping with a Big Bird on your chest.

Name a piece of gear, and I can dream up an obscure malfunction that it could cause. Give that piece no history of any problems over a massive number of jumps, and I'm willing to accept that it's 'safe' to jump.

Quote:
At one time, no one ever imagined that anyone could possibly fall out of a tandem harness. And everything went along fine for several decades, and tens of thousands of jumps. Did that mean that there was never any potential for a problem? No. Becaues then it happened. And again. And again.

Your story (or assumption) is incorrect. In the aftermath of the student falling out of the harness, many stories came out of TIs who had students slip or shift in the harness in the same exact way that allowed the frist student to fall out. These examples never made it far enough to allow the student to fall out, and either the TIs didn't recognize the potential if they had slipped further or didn't want to admit to the mistake, so they never reported them.

Either way, the potential existed, and it did manifest itself in several 'near misses' that were not reported. The difference between that, and wearing a hoodie, is that wearing a hoodie that caused a malfunction (or near-mal) doesn't put a civilians life, or an instructors rating, at risk. For a TI to admit that he almost lost a student is a big deal, while a solo jumper admitting that his hood got stuck on something is not.

Cocheese claims that just because nobody posted a story here in a couple days doesn't mean it didn't happen, but the truth is that there's a good deal more data that's not being considered. Sure, it hasn't happened to me, or anyone I personally know, but it also hasn't been posted here in the last 10 years that I know of. We're not just dealing with what I know, or others on this thread, it's also what's been posted here over the last decade, and there's nothing there either. Not one person who posts here ever saw or heard of such an incident, or surely it would have been posted.

Think about it - let's say that it happened, and the jumper came out of it OK. That's a great story to post, and the kind of shit that people love to read about. On the same note, let's say it happened, and the jumper was injured or killed. Now it get's posted as a warning to the community, as a matter of jumper safety. In either case, it would end up here sooner or later. Either directly in the wake of the incident itself, or later on as an anecdote in another thread.

There are a number of threads about various entanglements with other peices of clothing, you don't think that someone with knowledge of a clothing related incident wouldn't post that on one of those threads?


tristansdad  (C 39285)

Oct 8, 2012, 7:22 AM
Post #57 of 127 (3477 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

This is a very interesting debate and one that deserves further investigation. Remember the CYPRESS add that showed the guy wearing the baggy hoodie? I thought it was very ironic to say the least. But in the end this sport requires everyone to take responsibility for themselves and if they choose to do something that someone else might think is stupid so be it. Correct me if Iím wrong but arenít most of the rules and recommendations written in blood? Someone will have to get hurt or killed before we say ďdamn he shouldnít have been wearing that hoodieĒ. Itís a shame that it has to that way but humans have been operating like this for a very long time. How many people smashed their grills into a steering wheel or were thrown from a vehicle before we thought seatbelts were a good idea? I donít think itís wrong to wear a hoodie while jumping, itís a personal choice. I wouldnít wear one myself but I donít look down at anyone who does.


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Oct 9, 2012, 1:27 PM
Post #58 of 127 (3373 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Long hair has caused problems, wedding rings have caused lost fingers, shorts pockets have been entangled with pilot chutes, nipple rings have torn out nipples, t-shirts have been pulled over a jumper's right arm at pull time.

dude you COULD have a malfunction with literally anthing in freefall. just because there is potential for malfunction with a hoody, obviously quite small as shown by the number of jumps dave etc have put on them, doesnt mean its a hazard that no one should use. the jumpers that have used them have said remove the drawstring, tuck in the hood if you want, have it secured by legstraps. but its a peice of clothing that isnt really much different than a long sleeved tshirt


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:17 PM
Post #59 of 127 (3340 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Dave

For the record your post never refutes the fact that just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't.

Look leave your hoodie untucked. I don't give a shit. I will continue to tuck mine in.

You shouldn't give a shit either. Wink


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:25 PM
Post #60 of 127 (3338 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In the aftermath of the student falling out of the harness, many stories came out of TIs who had students slip or shift in the harness in the same exact way that allowed the frist student to fall out...

The difference between that, and wearing a hoodie, is that wearing a hoodie that caused a malfunction (or near-mal) doesn't put a civilians life, or an instructors rating, at risk.

Someone dying during a skydive is still someone dying during a skydive. It's a bad thing regardless of whether it's a tandem passenger or an experienced jumper. We shouldn't downplay potential problems just because they only threaten experienced jumpers.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Oct 9, 2012, 4:29 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 9, 2012, 4:35 PM
Post #61 of 127 (3337 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

> No I don't take out the drawstrings. They are tied together and tucked away.

No comment on the hoodies overall (I don't think it's a big issue) but in general it is a very bad idea to jump with a loop of not-easily-breakable line that encircles your head or neck. That goes for closing tools, jewelry and drawstrings.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:57 PM
Post #62 of 127 (3331 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
> No I don't take out the drawstrings. They are tied together and tucked away.

No comment on the hoodies overall (I don't think it's a big issue) but in general it is a very bad idea to jump with a loop of not-easily-breakable line that encircles your head or neck. That goes for closing tools, jewelry and drawstrings.


tucked away as in behind my head back there with the hood.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 9, 2012, 9:58 PM
Post #63 of 127 (3286 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

>tucked away as in behind my head back there with the hood.

Right. My advice would be to not have any loops of cord, period. They snag things; things go through them and get stuck. Even if you think they are tucked away. I've never seen a problem with a hoodie but I have seen a lot of them flopping around on the back of someone's helmet, so clearly "I'll tuck it away and it won't come out" doesn't always work.

Here's a scenario: you have a lazy throw of the PC or throw while unstable. The PC ends up sitting on top of your reserve for a few seconds, dancing around. (Any camera person or AFF JM has seen this many times.) The PC goes through the loop then finally inflates. You now have a PC in tow, trying to pull your dbag through the loop made by those drawstrings.

How do you deal with this problem?


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Oct 10, 2012, 6:17 AM
Post #64 of 127 (3233 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I was surprised (unless I missed it while wading through all the sniping) that nobody had mentioned 'drawstrings' in skydiving helmets.

My Z1 has one to tighten the collar, and when it's pulled taught there are quite a few inches of excess elastic emerging from the back. I'm always careful to tuck it inside the collar before exit, but on quite a few videos I've seen it flapping around regardless during the jump.

Here's an item of clothing that's designed for skydiving, and yet according to some of the posts here includes a potential safety hazard. I'd pretty much decided that the entanglement risk was negligible, but the post about the sunglasses cord made me wonder.

I guess one bit of advice would be to replace the elastic in that type of helmet regularly. Thinking about it mine is very old and stretched, so there's more excess than there needs to be.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 10, 2012, 6:34 AM
Post #65 of 127 (3229 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
>tucked away as in behind my head back there with the hood.

Right. My advice would be to not have any loops of cord, period. They snag things; things go through them and get stuck. Even if you think they are tucked away. I've never seen a problem with a hoodie but I have seen a lot of them flopping around on the back of someone's helmet, so clearly "I'll tuck it away and it won't come out" doesn't always work.

Here's a scenario: you have a lazy throw of the PC or throw while unstable. The PC ends up sitting on top of your reserve for a few seconds, dancing around. (Any camera person or AFF JM has seen this many times.) The PC goes through the loop then finally inflates. You now have a PC in tow, trying to pull your dbag through the loop made by those drawstrings.

How do you deal with this problem?

While I agree that is a potential problem. However I when I tied mine, I didn't want them flopping around. The loop is just big enough to go around my neck, hence nothing flopping behind me. Yes, I do have something around my neck, but if its already snug and not flopping around how is anything going to snag on it?

If something still gets that close to my neck and I can't stop it, I need to rethink what I am doing in the air.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 10, 2012, 9:15 AM
Post #66 of 127 (3185 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
>tucked away as in behind my head back there with the hood.

Right. My advice would be to not have any loops of cord, period. They snag things; things go through them and get stuck. Even if you think they are tucked away. I've never seen a problem with a hoodie but I have seen a lot of them flopping around on the back of someone's helmet, so clearly "I'll tuck it away and it won't come out" doesn't always work.

Here's a scenario: you have a lazy throw of the PC or throw while unstable. The PC ends up sitting on top of your reserve for a few seconds, dancing around. (Any camera person or AFF JM has seen this many times.) The PC goes through the loop then finally inflates. You now have a PC in tow, trying to pull your dbag through the loop made by those drawstrings.

How do you deal with this problem?

While I agree that is a potential problem. However I when I tied mine, I didn't want them flopping around. The loop is just big enough to go around my neck, hence nothing flopping behind me. Yes, I do have something around my neck, but if its already snug and not flopping around how is anything going to snag on it?

If something still gets that close to my neck and I can't stop it, I need to rethink what I am doing in the air.

Hmmm? Maybe someone (Marriah) could post her video of her bridal wrapping her ponytail? It doesn't take much for a dancing bridal to grab hold of. Unsure


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 10, 2012, 9:18 AM
Post #67 of 127 (3184 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

 

Seems to me that there are enough known, proven hazards that have actually killed or injured skydivers (cameras, low turns, open flaps, misrouted RSLs, misrigged 3-rings, soft housings, badly fitting booties, wedding rings, closing loop attachments, unstowed brake line, uncocked PCs, worn grommets, twisted steering lines, power lines, swoop ponds, stow bands... and the list goes on and on) that to worry about something that has never proven to be a hazard is to have misplaced priorities.


(This post was edited by kallend on Oct 10, 2012, 9:18 AM)


Sped  (D 12662)

Oct 10, 2012, 12:28 PM
Post #68 of 127 (3131 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I have know of someone holding on to the door rear floating on a DC-3 that got a loose rivet under their ring, and while wearing gloves no less, Let go and left a neat little gray pouch with a finger hanging on the AC. My dad told me of a guy in the army who had all the meat stripped of his finger. I remove all rings, jewlery, necklaces, and leave them at home. It would piss the Ex-off to no end when going to a boogie and I would leave my ring and necklace in the box. and i always wear gloves no matter what


78RATS  (D 25449)

Oct 10, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #69 of 127 (3091 views)
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     Re: [Sped] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Responding to no one in particular....why is everyone acting like douchbags in this thread? Seems like a harmless enough question, with no absolute right/wrong answers.

BASEjumpers have had threads about this in the past. Obviously BASE is different, but the posts pointing out problems in the BASE threads have all related to skydiving. Reprinted below so you can all nitpick the shit out of it. HaHa! Cool



" I remember seeing a skydiving video about 5 or 6 years ago with a freeflier wearing a hoodie and doing weedwackers, the hood fully covered the reserve cap. kinda freaked me out about the whole hoodie idea, but i grew past it."


" only problem I've ever had with a hoody was doing a barrel roll at the end of a skydive, the hood covered my vision completely."

Carry on and TAKE IT DEEP!!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 10, 2012, 4:12 PM
Post #70 of 127 (3059 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

> but if its already snug and not flopping around how is anything going to snag on it?

People have lost fingers when wearing very snug rings. Bridles have snagged on helmets, reserve flaps, riser covers and altimeters. Shirts come untucked in freefall and cover handles even when they are tucked in very snugly; people go unstable and things that seem well tucked in end up loose.

It's a pretty minor risk but one that's very easy to avoid, which is why I would avoid it. There are enough risks in skydiving already.


erdnarob  (D 364)

Oct 10, 2012, 6:59 PM
Post #71 of 127 (3035 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Any protruding object can be a potential problem : hooded shirt, long hair not stuffed in the helmet, camera on helmet, necklace out in free fall, boots with hooks, arm, leg, rig flap,...name it... you can even get your finger caught in a steering line at opening when putting your hands on risers.


jooknow

Oct 10, 2012, 9:32 PM
Post #72 of 127 (3003 views)
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     Re: [Shredex] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Here is a video where they are testing a bridle getting snagged on a GoPro, notice the attire the tester has choose to wear ;p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsEI_6cErbM



Hoodie + Skydiving is probably just as dangerous, if not less dangerous then skydiving naked! Imagine someones willy or boobies getting caught in their bridle or risers! (Not sure how but imagination is key here!)

I knew it! I knew this was a thread about jumping naked.


rockola  (E 2631)

Oct 11, 2012, 6:16 AM
Post #73 of 127 (2978 views)
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     Re: [jooknow] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

FWIW I've thought about this too, and will not jump in a hoodie. I have enough clothes so I don't need to.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 11, 2012, 9:12 AM
Post #74 of 127 (2956 views)
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     Re: [rockola] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I jump in Minnesota and Wisconsin in the winter.... I'd recommend a good turtle neck instead. Just as much cold wind protection without all the drama. Smile


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Oct 11, 2012, 11:26 AM
Post #75 of 127 (2935 views)
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     Re: [skyjumpenfool] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I jump in Minnesota and Wisconsin in the winter.... I'd recommend a good turtle neck instead. Just as much cold wind protection without all the drama. Smile

I have a hoodie that I call my "speed skater" hoodie. It's a thin fleece-lined poly material that fits under my other clothes and jumpsuit. It's also thin enough that I can wear the hood under my helmet. Neck and head are extra warm, and no snag risk from the hood itself. (No drawstrings - it has a zipper).


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