Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident?

 


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 5, 2012, 8:12 PM
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     Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident?  

When I see someone wearing one on a dive, I just shake my head in disbelief that the jumper doesn't see this a serious hazard.

Discuss.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 5, 2012, 8:15 PM
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

what exactly do you see as a hazard?

and yes I have done quite a few with a sweatshirt on.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 5, 2012, 8:21 PM
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

The hood getting caught in the risers, reserve, or anything it wants to get caught on.

You have 5000 jumps and you never thought of that as being a hazard? Let me guess, you wear a packing tool around your neck too.Crazy


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 5, 2012, 8:43 PM
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

 
I wear a hoodie sometimes when it's cold, and have never had a problem with it. The hood itself isn't long enough to caught in anything, and even then I tend to roll it up inside itself before exit, mainly to keep it from inflating and 'choking' me with my collar.

Really take a look at one being worn with a rig. Pull the hood out and see how far it goes (not that far), and then consider that it's a round peice (no edges or tails) of fairly thick fabric, and you can see that it's not likely to get caught up or wrapped up in anything.

The DZO where I started jumping used to wear a hoodie on every jump in the cooler months, even under his jumpsuit with the hood pulled out of the suit. Again, never a problem.

I'm a big fan of using the right tool for the right job, and I'm very particular about my clothes/jumpsuit and how they fit with my rig and in freefall. A hoodie with the bottom of the sweatshirt pinned securely under my legstraps passes my test for freefall safety, and the hood itself has never been a problem. I do remove the drawstring from any hoodie I plan to jump with.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 5, 2012, 9:04 PM
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

See.. a draw string = another hazard.

Keep thinking of how the hood could get in the way on a jump, kids. Don't let these 5000 jump wonders tell you it's ok to be stupid just because nothing has happened to them and their dzo does it.Crazy


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 5, 2012, 9:12 PM
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Keep thinking of how the hood could get in the way on a jump, kids.

OK, so far you have 10,000 jumps telling it's not what you seem to think it is. How about you just come out and tell us what you 'think' the problem is, and let people decide for themselves if it's valid.

The thing is, the success I report is actual, based on making the jumps and not having a problem. I would esitmate that I have between 100 and 200 jumps (conservatively) wearing a hoodie without incident. Your concerns are all 'theoretical' at this point, and not based on any actual experience you have had while jumping a hoodie (I think, correct me if I'm wrong), just what you 'think' might go wrong.

I applaud your thinking, and critical eye on even the smallest detail of a jump. Always, always, always voice any concerns you have about anything, because all you know is what you know, and not what the participant in question knows. Even a guy with 5000 jumps might have overlooked something. Along those same lines, learn to 'give it up' when it seems that your concerns are unfounded.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 5, 2012, 9:23 PM
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

As with any unnecessary item on a dive, there are things that haven't happened yet, but may happen. There are things you never thought of happening.

Long hair has caused problems, wedding rings have caused lost fingers, shorts pockets have been entangled with pilot chutes, nipple rings have torn out nipples, t-shirts have been pulled over a jumper's right arm at pull time.

Keep making excuses for unnecessary items on dive for your own comfort. I'll keep thinking you're not that bright. Deal?


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 5, 2012, 9:29 PM
Post #8 of 127 (11293 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
Keep thinking of how the hood could get in the way on a jump, kids.

OK, so far you have 10,000 jumps telling it's not what you seem to think it is. How about you just come out and tell us what you 'think' the problem is, and let people decide for themselves if it's valid.

The thing is, the success I report is actual, based on making the jumps and not having a problem. I would esitmate that I have between 100 and 200 jumps (conservatively) wearing a hoodie without incident. Your concerns are all 'theoretical' at this point, and not based on any actual experience you have had while jumping a hoodie (I think, correct me if I'm wrong), just what you 'think' might go wrong.

I applaud your thinking, and critical eye on even the smallest detail of a jump. Always, always, always voice any concerns you have about anything, because all you know is what you know, and not what the participant in question knows. Even a guy with 5000 jumps might have overlooked something. Along those same lines, learn to 'give it up' when it seems that your concerns are unfounded.

+1


I may not have 22 years in this sport, but I do have 4x the number of jumps as you. No need to be disrespectful and make assumptions about somebody you don't know.

No I don't wear a packing tool around my neck, I do jump with a line knife though.

I've done tandems, AFF, Freefly, Hop and Pops (low and high) with a hoodie.

I have thought that a hoodie/sweatshirt could cause a problem grabbing handles, but the hood I see no problem.

if a hood getting in the way of a reserve opening maybe you pull your reserve on the ground while wearing a hoodie and see what happens.

And while you are at it maybe you should jump barefoot as those nasty shoestrings might get you killed some day.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 5, 2012, 9:32 PM
Post #9 of 127 (11290 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I tuck my laces in before every jump.Tongue


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 5, 2012, 9:36 PM
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Keep making excuses for unnecessary items on dive for your own comfort. I'll keep thinking you're not that bright. Deal?

So I assume you NEVER wear gloves as they are not necessary either right?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 5, 2012, 9:44 PM
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
So I assume you NEVER wear gloves as they are not necessary either right?

Funny you should mention that, because I literally never wear gloves. I don't even own a pair of gloves suitable for skydiving, and I haven't since my first year jumping. I picked up a pair of soccer goalie gloves my first year, wore them two or three times, and decided that gloves weren't for me.

I like how he seems to think I'm not that bright, but somehow I've made it through 17 years of constant jumping totaling 5500+ jumps, and have recieved a USPA safety award from a national director based on my commitment to safety and the safety of others.

I even tried to be nice, and compliment his attention to detail and the way he voiced his concern, and he comes back with insulting my intelligence. What a dick-licker.


Shredex

Oct 5, 2012, 10:07 PM
Post #12 of 127 (11269 views)
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     Re: Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I think it depends on the size of the hoodie.
If its one that fits you then there shouldn't be any problems.

...but if you can fit your whole body inside the hood of the jacket...then I can see where things might get hairy.


Moral of the story? Wear cloths that fit.


Periapt  (D 3017)

Oct 6, 2012, 1:15 AM
Post #13 of 127 (11226 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
When I see someone wearing one on a dive, I just shake my head in disbelief that the jumper doesn't see this a serious hazard.

Discuss.
perhaps the better question would be does anyone know of a malfunction or incident that could be attributed to the hood on any garment.

based on the current replies, it would appear that the answer is "No". Of course that does not mean it's not possible.

as a practical manner, if someone wants the hood over their head, they should probably put some kind of helmet over it so it doesn't blow off.


CornishChris  (C 102981)

Oct 6, 2012, 1:47 AM
Post #14 of 127 (11218 views)
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     Re: [Periapt] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I have worn a hoodie occasionally but always stick the hood inside my jumpsuit. Generally aim for hood less jumpers.

I did however do a jump a few years ago where I had an odd snag. I was wearing sunglasses with a soft attachment cord (can't think of the right name but you get my drift), attached under my helmet, although the strap did stick out below the lid. On deployment my head was pulled around quite a bit and I felt something snap. Something (risers presumably?) had caught the sunglasses cord and ripped it off - it tore at the rubber attachment point inside the helmet. If that can snag surely it is Possible a hood could...


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 6, 2012, 4:04 AM
Post #15 of 127 (11192 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I think that it is quite possible for it to be laying over the 3 rings and therefore prevent a cutaway. Of course it could be that the rings would just pull themselves right through, but maybe not.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 6, 2012, 4:45 AM
Post #16 of 127 (11181 views)
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     Re: [sundevil777] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
I think that it is quite possible for it to be laying over the 3 rings and therefore prevent a cutaway. Of course it could be that the rings would just pull themselves right through, but maybe not.

Again, I would suggest inspecting actually wearing a hoodie and a rig, and you'll see that there's no way in hell that a hood could reach around to the front of your shoulder and even touch a 3-ring. Even if it could make contact, it would need to be able to reach the 3-ring and extend far enough past it to get stuck on something in order to pin itself down and obstruct the funciton of the 3-ring. Once more, try simply laying a hood over a 3-ring on the ground, and try pulling the cutaway handle, you'll see that the rings simply push the hood out of the way, regardless, the hoods on my sweatshirts cannot reach that far far around. None of this is mentioning the fact that the wind would be blowing the hood back, and not forward and down.

Again, critical thinking is good, but at some point you have to believe that some people out there do have half a brain (sometimes more), and poses the ability to vet different ideas or techniques than what you may be familiar with.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Oct 6, 2012, 5:54 AM
Post #17 of 127 (11143 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Keep making excuses for unnecessary items on dive for your own comfort. I'll keep thinking you're not that bright. Deal?

So I assume you NEVER wear gloves as they are not necessary either right?

Necessary is subjective in this case. I wear gloves on every skydive regardless of weather conditions or type of jump. I started wearing them after getting cuts on my fingers and broken nails from riser slaps during deployment early in my career. So for me, they are necessary.

As for the hoodie thing, it's a lot like the reserve flap mounted slider keeper. As far as I know there has never been an issue with them....yet.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 6, 2012, 7:31 AM
Post #18 of 127 (11104 views)
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     Re: [chuckakers] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

It just doesn't seem right to see 5000 jump jumpers defending the right to have a big piece of fabric flopping around your neck.

It could catch on the plane or aircraft you are jumping from in an emergency exit. It could do the short's pocket thing to a burbled pilot chute. It could catch on your Go Pro or helmet cams that caught a line. It could wrap around your lines in a violent cutaway situation, It could make a canopy wrap worse. etc etc.

Would you want a student wearing that stuff? Now a student thinks since Chuck and Dave said it was ok..... I'll wear this stuff..

And we have another poster above that thinks the moral of the story is to wear clothes that fit. How about: Don't wear street clothes because they present unwanted hazards on a dive for nothing in return.

Yes I wear gloves on every jump even if it's hot. But I don't wear scarves, hoods, floppy clothing, packing tools, jewelry, or things I think could and have caused problems to a jumper.

And I don't look up to jumpers with more jumps than me when they set a bad example or do things I think are not a good idea. Like Mr. Bill jumps and hoodies, I'm a "dick-licker" for thinking they are wrong.

Oh well that's fine. But if we get one jumper to think safer from this thread, my job is done.

If we get one jumper to think all these 5000 jump guys said it was not a hazard then I guess your job is done as well. Cool.Cool


Shredex

Oct 6, 2012, 7:51 AM
Post #19 of 127 (11091 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Well, out of the possibly billions of skydives and BASE jumps with hoodies that people have done across the world, there as been 0 incidents that involve them.

Having a problem with a hoodie is like Homer pouring his cereal and having it catch fire for no reason. (See attached)
Attachments: Homer_Cereal_Fail.jpg (27.5 KB)


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 6, 2012, 8:07 AM
Post #20 of 127 (11078 views)
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     Re: [Shredex] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

 So Homer's milk went bad and created a methane gas which was sparked by static. This is why we don't drink milk past the expiration date.Tongue

So why do people wear hoodies on a jump? Does it keep you warm on any part of the dive? Do you not wear a helmet? Do you wear the hood over your head after opening? Should they be an option on new jump suits? Do you take out the draw string?
Have you ever had a violent cutaway situation? Has another jumper ever caught themselves on any part of your gear during a dive?

Go ahead and think less of me for THINKING there are possible hazards with a hoodie. And like I said.. I will think less of you for NOT thinking there are possible hazards. Fair enough?


(This post was edited by cocheese on Oct 6, 2012, 8:21 AM)


stratostar  (Student)

Oct 6, 2012, 8:12 AM
Post #21 of 127 (11075 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Well I hear ya bro..... yep in fact watched some of that weird shit happen over the years. But as you know, we all do something that another might, can or will think is stupid or dangerous. As Mr. Wales once put it, "A man has to know his limitations". You accept the risks you want to accept and others accept theirs.

I have also used a hoodie for many years without a problem, like jumping the many different camera set ups I have used over the years, I did put some thought into my choice of using that attire on jumps, I choose to accept the added risks in using that attire.

Quote:
wedding rings have caused lost fingers

As a person who has seen 100 yr old ring lost in FF and also knowing a person who left a ring and a finger attached to an airplane on exit..... It always perplexes me when I'm doing my spiel to TDM's about removing phones, keys, jewels & rings..... there is always some know it all who interrupts me and starts to tell my PAX it's ok to leave a wedding band on, they been jumping for all of 10 yrs and never seen a problem with a ring.

I'm thinking, really numbnuts, why the fuck do you think I ask for them remove that shit.


Shredex

Oct 6, 2012, 8:23 AM
Post #22 of 127 (11069 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Do you wear a foil hat to protect yourself from the government? Blush


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 6, 2012, 8:27 AM
Post #23 of 127 (11061 views)
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     Re: [Shredex] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I'm going to wear a foil hoodie on my next jump. I think that's a great idea. Plus it would look really cool.Cool


Shredex

Oct 6, 2012, 8:31 AM
Post #24 of 127 (11055 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

lol reminds me of douggs in his The Hills Have Eyes video
http://vimeo.com/27064398


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 6, 2012, 8:41 AM
Post #25 of 127 (11050 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

 As Mr. Wales once put it, "A man has to know his limitations".


In reply to:

I believe you're thinking of Mr. Callahan...Wink






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Oct 6, 2012, 8:45 AM)


stratostar  (Student)

Oct 6, 2012, 8:57 AM
Post #26 of 127 (4191 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Tongue well it was one of those Clint fellas...BlushAngelic


(This post was edited by stratostar on Oct 6, 2012, 8:58 AM)


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 6, 2012, 9:26 AM
Post #27 of 127 (4176 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

When I have a super light AFF student, I will wear my STF hoodie over top of my RW jump suit. I have the draw string removed from the hood too.

No issues I can find with it, other than I have no way to tuck it in other than the leg straps. Probably going to modify it with clips down at the bottom similar to a camera jacket.

Oh, and it gets toasty climbing to altitude in FL in August in a 182. CrazyTongue


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Oct 6, 2012, 9:26 AM)


peek  (D 8884)

Oct 6, 2012, 10:07 AM
Post #28 of 127 (4165 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
wedding rings have caused lost fingers

And even if the finger is not lost, the injury can be very serious. See the attached pictures. After seeing these, I decided that I would never again let any student wear a ring if I could prevent it. And if the pictures are not enough to convince an instructor, think about what a lawyer will do if there was an accident.


(This post was edited by peek on Oct 6, 2012, 10:11 AM)
Attachments: ringinjury1a.jpg (64.2 KB)
  ringinjury1b.jpg (8.42 KB)
  ringinjury2.jpg (55.1 KB)


stratostar  (Student)

Oct 6, 2012, 10:27 AM
Post #29 of 127 (4157 views)
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     Re: [peek] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Um, yea.... like I said:

Quote:
there is always some know it all who interrupts me and starts to tell my PAX it's ok to leave a wedding band on, they been jumping for all of 10 yrs and never seen a problem with a ring.

I'm thinking, really numbnuts, why the fuck do you think I ask for them remove that shit.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 6, 2012, 10:29 AM
Post #30 of 127 (4156 views)
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     Re: [peek] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Picture is worth a thousand words Gary!



...and be careful Ski, wearin' hoodie in Fla. can get ya SHOT! Wink


jclalor  (B 33202)

Oct 6, 2012, 10:31 AM
Post #31 of 127 (4154 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I had a bad experience jumping with a hoodie, the kind with the joined front pockets. after exiting solo and going on to my back, I noticed something small falling with me in my burble, for a split second I couldn't figure out what it was, it was then that I realized it was the key to my car had fallen out of hoodie pocket. When I instinctivlely reached for it causing me to roll a bit, the wind then hit it and it was gone. I was then educated on the cost of a replacement key for a Honda ($175)


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 6, 2012, 10:39 AM
Post #32 of 127 (4148 views)
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     Re: [jclalor] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I had a bad experience jumping with a hoodie, the kind with the joined front pockets. after exiting solo and going on to my back, I noticed something small falling with me in my burble, for a split second I couldn't figure out what it was, it was then that I realized it was the key to my car had fallen out of hoodie pocket. When I instinctivlely reached for it causing me to roll a bit, the wind then hit it and it was gone. I was then educated on the cost of a replacement key for a Honda ($175)

There's a REASON why the airlines tell ya to remove keys, pens...anything hard & pointy from your pockets during a crash! Wink

Hard landings cause both impacts in places not expected and twisting & bending in ways sharp objects may cause some harm.

I always empty my pockets before jumping, it would really suck having to use a Swiss army knife to start my car!

...as in cuttin' the keys outta my spleen! Sly


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Oct 6, 2012, 10:50 AM)


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 6, 2012, 11:08 AM
Post #33 of 127 (4138 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

 
I suggest that a GoPro is a more serious hazard than any hoodie.

I can't recall reading of a single incident where a hoodie was even peripherally involved.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Oct 6, 2012, 7:39 PM
Post #34 of 127 (4068 views)
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     Re: Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Lines have half-hitched on reserve flaps. They could half-hitch on a hoodie. The only reaon it probably hasn't been heard of yet is that there are a lot more reserve deployments with reserve flaps then there are reserve deployments with hoodies.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Oct 6, 2012, 7:44 PM)


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 6, 2012, 8:54 PM
Post #35 of 127 (4046 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
So why do people wear hoodies on a jump? Does it keep you warm on any part of the dive? Do you not wear a helmet? Do you wear the hood over your head after opening? Should they be an option on new jump suits? Do you take out the draw string?
Have you ever had a violent cutaway situation? Has another jumper ever caught themselves on any part of your gear during a dive?

Go ahead and think less of me for THINKING there are possible hazards with a hoodie. And like I said.. I will think less of you for NOT thinking there are possible hazards. Fair enough?


1. Yes it keeps me warm. Sometimes I also need additional drag.

2. No, I don't wear a helmet while doing tandems, yes I wear a helmet on most other dives.

3. Yes I have worn the hood under canopy if my head gets cold.

4. Jump suit manufacturers can do whatever they want I will buy what I think suits me best.

5. No I don't take out the drawstrings. They are tied together and tucked away.

6. I have had 2 spun up Velos spin me on my back. (both while wearing camera wings so obviously those didn't kill me).

7. Nope nobody has been entangled on me or my gear.


I never said there is not the possibility for a hazard. You projected that assumption on me since the start of the thread. I have over 2700 camera jumps filming AFF, Tandem, and 4-way teams ranging from intermediate to open.

I don't think less of you for thinking something might pose a hazard. I do think less of you for not paying attention to replies from others.

Also if you had half as many jumps as you do posts, people might take you more seriously.


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Oct 7, 2012, 5:10 AM
Post #36 of 127 (4006 views)
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     Re: [peek] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Gary do you have information about that particular ring injury? How it happened etc?

I have learned something here today. Thanks.


Shredex

Oct 7, 2012, 7:56 AM
Post #37 of 127 (3974 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Gary do you have information about that particular ring injury? How it happened etc?

I have learned something here today. Thanks.

The pictures he linked were from a climber, that apparently put his finger in a bolt hanger just as he was jumping down and the ring caught.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Oct 7, 2012, 8:06 AM
Post #38 of 127 (3969 views)
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     Re: [Shredex] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Gary do you have information about that particular ring injury? How it happened etc?

I have learned something here today. Thanks.

The pictures he linked were from a climber, that apparently put his finger in a bolt hanger just as he was jumping down and the ring caught.

A good frield (retired Marine) knows personally of a jumper who left his wedding ring, finger and most of the supporting tendons in a C-182. He WAS also wearing gloves at the time... the ring caught on the door frame through the gloves. So... can happen.

As to the hoodie, don't personally know of anything happening with them, but I suspect that if long hair can be a problem, a hoodie could too...

JW


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 7, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #39 of 127 (3964 views)
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     Re: [Shredex] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Gary do you have information about that particular ring injury? How it happened etc?

I have learned something here today. Thanks.

The pictures he linked were from a climber, that apparently put his finger in a bolt hanger just as he was jumping down and the ring caught.
that's irrelevant i can personally assure you it is VERY possible in skydiving too. I almost degloved my finger on a loose blind rivet on the door whilst exiting a Caravan.


(This post was edited by Squeak on Oct 7, 2012, 8:25 AM)


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Oct 7, 2012, 8:25 AM
Post #40 of 127 (3962 views)
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     Re: [fcajump] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Oh I don't doubt rings can/have caused injuries in skydiving. I was just curious as to the event that picture was from.

As far as hoodies go I tuck mine into my jump suit when I wear one. Could it cause a problem? My answer.....MAYBE. Meaning there is some possiblity. So why risk it? It does not benifit me leaving it out. The arguement "I have hundreds of jumps with one and it has never caused a problem before" seems dumb. That doesn't mean it can't or won't.

To each their own though.


Shredex

Oct 7, 2012, 8:35 AM
Post #41 of 127 (3955 views)
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     Re: [Squeak] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I wasn't saying it can't be done in skydiving. It most certainly can and HAS been done! lol
I was just answering the guys question as to where the pictures posted came exactly...which was from a climbing accident.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 7, 2012, 8:40 AM
Post #42 of 127 (3951 views)
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     Re: [Squeak] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Gary do you have information about that particular ring injury? How it happened etc?

I have learned something here today. Thanks.

The pictures he linked were from a climber, that apparently put his finger in a bolt hanger just as he was jumping down and the ring caught.
that's irrelevant i can personally assure you it is VERY possible in skydiving too. I almost degloved my finger on a loose blind rivet on the door whilst exiting a Caravan.

Somebody posted a 1st account story a couple years back of a woman leaving both her ring and the finger it was on in the aircraft, IIRC it was reattached.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 7, 2012, 8:59 AM
Post #43 of 127 (3945 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
The arguement "I have hundreds of jumps with one and it has never caused a problem before" seems dumb. That doesn't mean it can't or won't.

Ok, but gloves have been linked to deployment problems, but people still jump them. Camera wings have also been linked to malfunctions, deployment problems and entanglements, but people still jump them. Camera helmets, ring sights, t-shirts, shorts, etc, all linked to actual incidents, and people still jump with them.

Hoods on sweatshirts - no reports of any actual problems. On top of my 100's of trouble free jumps with them, I would suggest that there are tens of thousands of other trouble free jumps from jumpers around the world. I don't think a hoodie is an unusal piece of gear to see on a jump plane, yet there has not been one person to come forward with any type of related incident. Not even a second or thrid hand account, or even a 'a guy once told me about a guy he knew who met some dude who's brother....'.

For the record, I started freeflying before there was such a thing as a 'freefly jumpsuit'. All we had available was street clothes to jump in, and we learned quite a bit through trial and error about what works and what's better left on the ground. At that time, hoodies made the grade, and 15 years later they're still performing well on skydivves all over the world.

To tell you the truth, I think most of you guys are crazy for jumping full face helmets. I don't like the reduced peripheral vision (or the fogging) one bit, and I think it's a liability. Same goes for hand mounted altimeters, I don't want something attached to the back of my hand if I have to reach into a mess of risers, toggles and lines to clear a mal of some sort. Despite my personal feelings, I see that people are comfortable and successful with this gear on a daily basis, so I keep my opinions to myself, and make my own choices accordingly.

Get over it people. One guy started a thread because he thought there might be an issue, and then for whatever reason just wouldn't back down when it appeared that his concerns were unfounded. His unwillingness to admit that he was wrong doesn't make his position any more valid.


Shredex

Oct 7, 2012, 9:17 AM
Post #44 of 127 (3939 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
To tell you the truth, I think most of you guys are crazy for jumping full face helmets. I don't like the reduced peripheral vision (or the fogging) one bit, and I think it's a liability. Same goes for hand mounted altimeters, I don't want something attached to the back of my hand if I have to reach into a mess of risers, toggles and lines to clear a mal of some sort.

Have you tried the Cookie G2-G3? My G2 I can't see the helmet when I'm wearing it, oddly enough lol. It's just got that huge of a view range. And fogging only happened after you open your chute...which then you just lift the visor up.
I know what you mean about the Altimeter, though. After I got my Alti-track, I was supper excited! Then I saw someone wearing the Pro-track wristband thing and I was jealous.
If I ever wear gloves, it's my cycling finger-less gloves so I can still feel my sac with the tips of my fingers. Wink


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Oct 7, 2012, 10:00 AM
Post #45 of 127 (3926 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I wouldn't agree that he is wrong and you're right. It has the potential to cause an issue, just like anything else in jumping.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 7, 2012, 12:05 PM
Post #46 of 127 (3897 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I had an incident directly caused by a hooded sweatshirt once!

I loaned mine to an EXTREME hottie one chilly night at the DZ...her boyfriend showed up to return it the next day sporting rather aggressively unpleasant disposition.
A wuffo unfamilar with Skydiving protocal regarding such matters, I offered to hammer it out for him.

She told me over a romantic dinner the following weekend that her EX-boyfriend was 'wound too tight' and that the obvious malfunction caused her to initiate a cut-way procedure!

I conscientiously did a complete & thorough inspection of her hardware and performed several system checks... in the interest of safety ONLY of course. Blush

So I do indeed concur ~ Use of hoodies does have the potential of creating unforeseen situations in the skydiving enviroment that require quick & decisive action!! Angelic


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Oct 7, 2012, 12:28 PM)


virgin-burner

Oct 7, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #47 of 127 (3863 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
When I see someone wearing one on a dive, I just shake my head in disbelief that the jumper doesn't see this a serious hazard.

Discuss.

you mean like this!?

ups, sorry, wrong forum! Tongue


Shredex

Oct 7, 2012, 4:12 PM
Post #48 of 127 (3814 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Here is a video where they are testing a bridle getting snagged on a GoPro, notice the attire the tester has choose to wear ;p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsEI_6cErbM



Hoodie + Skydiving is probably just as dangerous, if not less dangerous then skydiving naked! Imagine someones willy or boobies getting caught in their bridle or risers! (Not sure how but imagination is key here!)


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 7, 2012, 5:26 PM
Post #49 of 127 (3791 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

"get over it people. One guy started a thread because he thought there might be an issue, and then for whatever reason just wouldn't back down when it appeared that his concerns were unfounded. His unwillingness to admit that he was wrong doesn't make his position any more valid. "

Dude, you get over it. I'm not wrong that there is a potential hazard. Just because nobody posted an actual incident here in the past 2 days means nothing. Yes I agree the risk is small. But shit happens... more often to dumb people ...who don't try to minimize risk. Everything we wear has been caught on something at one time. So anyway, your unwillingness to admit that there is a risk of unwanted hazards doesn't make your position any more valid either. It's cloth pilot chute, the size of your head, around your neck. Yep, "no way anything can go wrong with that. Never has, never will." Sounds a bit stupid to me.

As for being taking seriously and my post numbers.... That's why I try to stick to Bonfire. I'm a joke and I know it, but I take every jump seriously. Peace out.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 7, 2012, 6:09 PM
Post #50 of 127 (3779 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
\

As for being taking seriously and my post numbers.... That's why I try to stick to Bonfire. I'm a joke and I know it, but I take every jump seriously. Peace out.


Well at least you realize you are a joke


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Oct 7, 2012, 6:54 PM
Post #51 of 127 (3995 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
\

As for being taking seriously and my post numbers.... That's why I try to stick to Bonfire. I'm a joke and I know it, but I take every jump seriously. Peace out.


Well at least you realize you are a joke

So...are you saying that you are the jump number skygod, eh?
How pitiful that you have to expose yourself with your "I got more jumps than you so you don't know shit" BS.

You can take you snobiness up the creek.
Your jump numbers won't buy you a cup of coffee.

Read what the OP said.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Oct 7, 2012, 7:17 PM
Post #52 of 127 (3985 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Let's say that someone wanted to jump with a giant yellow Big Bird strapped to his chest. And someone told him that those flailing arms and legs might be a problem. And next he argued in rebuttal that no one has ever been hurt before jumping with a giant yellow Big Bird, therefore, it doesn't present a problem and should be perfectly safe. Would that be a valid argument in favor of everyone making Big Bird jumps?

At one time, no one ever imagined that anyone could possibly fall out of a tandem harness. And everything went along fine for several decades, and tens of thousands of jumps. Did that mean that there was never any potential for a problem? No. Becaues then it happened. And again. And again.

Do anything often enough for long enough, and something bad will happen because of it.

Bottom line: If it provides no benefit to the jump, and isn't necessary to have, then there's no point in adding the risk, however small that might be.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Oct 7, 2012, 7:27 PM)


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 7, 2012, 7:40 PM
Post #53 of 127 (3960 views)
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     Re: [popsjumper] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
\

As for being taking seriously and my post numbers.... That's why I try to stick to Bonfire. I'm a joke and I know it, but I take every jump seriously. Peace out.


Well at least you realize you are a joke

So...are you saying that you are the jump number skygod, eh?
How pitiful that you have to expose yourself with your "I got more jumps than you so you don't know shit" BS.

You can take you snobiness up the creek.
Your jump numbers won't buy you a cup of coffee.

Read what the OP said.


Actually the OP not reading what both myself and Dave wrote is why I think he is a joke. Neither of us ever claimed it wasn't a risk. All either of us said is we have and do wear hoodies and asked what he thought was the issue. His opinions were met with counter opinions. He continued on to assume we never thought of the risk or that we didn't care.

Again I will state I wear a hoodie, when I might need more drag, or if its cold.

And for the record the hood isn't usually exposed, I usually tuck it under the rig. But the OP never bothered to ask and just assumed it was exposed to the wind.

And Doc you making assumptions midway through the conversation makes you appear to be no better in terms of not paying attention to what was said.


virgin-burner

Oct 7, 2012, 8:55 PM
Post #54 of 127 (3939 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

pUSsIeS SuCk! Smile


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Oct 8, 2012, 6:41 AM
Post #55 of 127 (3890 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:

Would you want a student wearing that stuff? Now a student thinks since Chuck and Dave said it was ok..... I'll wear this stuff..Cool

Hold on there, Skippy. I never said it was ok. Re-read my comment and you will find that I said I had never heard of a problem with hoodies...YET.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 8, 2012, 7:08 AM
Post #56 of 127 (3879 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Let's say that someone wanted to jump with a giant yellow Big Bird strapped to his chest. And someone told him that those flailing arms and legs might be a problem. And next he argued in rebuttal that no one has ever been hurt before jumping with a giant yellow Big Bird, therefore, it doesn't present a problem and should be perfectly safe. Would that be a valid argument in favor of everyone making Big Bird jumps?

Not having heard of any problems alone is not a good reason. Combine that with tens of thousands of jumps wearing a Big Bird on your chest, and you have the makings of a sound argument for the safety of jumping with a Big Bird on your chest.

Name a piece of gear, and I can dream up an obscure malfunction that it could cause. Give that piece no history of any problems over a massive number of jumps, and I'm willing to accept that it's 'safe' to jump.

Quote:
At one time, no one ever imagined that anyone could possibly fall out of a tandem harness. And everything went along fine for several decades, and tens of thousands of jumps. Did that mean that there was never any potential for a problem? No. Becaues then it happened. And again. And again.

Your story (or assumption) is incorrect. In the aftermath of the student falling out of the harness, many stories came out of TIs who had students slip or shift in the harness in the same exact way that allowed the frist student to fall out. These examples never made it far enough to allow the student to fall out, and either the TIs didn't recognize the potential if they had slipped further or didn't want to admit to the mistake, so they never reported them.

Either way, the potential existed, and it did manifest itself in several 'near misses' that were not reported. The difference between that, and wearing a hoodie, is that wearing a hoodie that caused a malfunction (or near-mal) doesn't put a civilians life, or an instructors rating, at risk. For a TI to admit that he almost lost a student is a big deal, while a solo jumper admitting that his hood got stuck on something is not.

Cocheese claims that just because nobody posted a story here in a couple days doesn't mean it didn't happen, but the truth is that there's a good deal more data that's not being considered. Sure, it hasn't happened to me, or anyone I personally know, but it also hasn't been posted here in the last 10 years that I know of. We're not just dealing with what I know, or others on this thread, it's also what's been posted here over the last decade, and there's nothing there either. Not one person who posts here ever saw or heard of such an incident, or surely it would have been posted.

Think about it - let's say that it happened, and the jumper came out of it OK. That's a great story to post, and the kind of shit that people love to read about. On the same note, let's say it happened, and the jumper was injured or killed. Now it get's posted as a warning to the community, as a matter of jumper safety. In either case, it would end up here sooner or later. Either directly in the wake of the incident itself, or later on as an anecdote in another thread.

There are a number of threads about various entanglements with other peices of clothing, you don't think that someone with knowledge of a clothing related incident wouldn't post that on one of those threads?


tristansdad  (C 39285)

Oct 8, 2012, 7:22 AM
Post #57 of 127 (3875 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

This is a very interesting debate and one that deserves further investigation. Remember the CYPRESS add that showed the guy wearing the baggy hoodie? I thought it was very ironic to say the least. But in the end this sport requires everyone to take responsibility for themselves and if they choose to do something that someone else might think is stupid so be it. Correct me if Iím wrong but arenít most of the rules and recommendations written in blood? Someone will have to get hurt or killed before we say ďdamn he shouldnít have been wearing that hoodieĒ. Itís a shame that it has to that way but humans have been operating like this for a very long time. How many people smashed their grills into a steering wheel or were thrown from a vehicle before we thought seatbelts were a good idea? I donít think itís wrong to wear a hoodie while jumping, itís a personal choice. I wouldnít wear one myself but I donít look down at anyone who does.


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Oct 9, 2012, 1:27 PM
Post #58 of 127 (3771 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Long hair has caused problems, wedding rings have caused lost fingers, shorts pockets have been entangled with pilot chutes, nipple rings have torn out nipples, t-shirts have been pulled over a jumper's right arm at pull time.

dude you COULD have a malfunction with literally anthing in freefall. just because there is potential for malfunction with a hoody, obviously quite small as shown by the number of jumps dave etc have put on them, doesnt mean its a hazard that no one should use. the jumpers that have used them have said remove the drawstring, tuck in the hood if you want, have it secured by legstraps. but its a peice of clothing that isnt really much different than a long sleeved tshirt


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:17 PM
Post #59 of 127 (3738 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Dave

For the record your post never refutes the fact that just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't.

Look leave your hoodie untucked. I don't give a shit. I will continue to tuck mine in.

You shouldn't give a shit either. Wink


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:25 PM
Post #60 of 127 (3736 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In the aftermath of the student falling out of the harness, many stories came out of TIs who had students slip or shift in the harness in the same exact way that allowed the frist student to fall out...

The difference between that, and wearing a hoodie, is that wearing a hoodie that caused a malfunction (or near-mal) doesn't put a civilians life, or an instructors rating, at risk.

Someone dying during a skydive is still someone dying during a skydive. It's a bad thing regardless of whether it's a tandem passenger or an experienced jumper. We shouldn't downplay potential problems just because they only threaten experienced jumpers.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Oct 9, 2012, 4:29 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 9, 2012, 4:35 PM
Post #61 of 127 (3735 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

> No I don't take out the drawstrings. They are tied together and tucked away.

No comment on the hoodies overall (I don't think it's a big issue) but in general it is a very bad idea to jump with a loop of not-easily-breakable line that encircles your head or neck. That goes for closing tools, jewelry and drawstrings.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 9, 2012, 4:57 PM
Post #62 of 127 (3729 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
> No I don't take out the drawstrings. They are tied together and tucked away.

No comment on the hoodies overall (I don't think it's a big issue) but in general it is a very bad idea to jump with a loop of not-easily-breakable line that encircles your head or neck. That goes for closing tools, jewelry and drawstrings.


tucked away as in behind my head back there with the hood.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 9, 2012, 9:58 PM
Post #63 of 127 (3684 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

>tucked away as in behind my head back there with the hood.

Right. My advice would be to not have any loops of cord, period. They snag things; things go through them and get stuck. Even if you think they are tucked away. I've never seen a problem with a hoodie but I have seen a lot of them flopping around on the back of someone's helmet, so clearly "I'll tuck it away and it won't come out" doesn't always work.

Here's a scenario: you have a lazy throw of the PC or throw while unstable. The PC ends up sitting on top of your reserve for a few seconds, dancing around. (Any camera person or AFF JM has seen this many times.) The PC goes through the loop then finally inflates. You now have a PC in tow, trying to pull your dbag through the loop made by those drawstrings.

How do you deal with this problem?


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Oct 10, 2012, 6:17 AM
Post #64 of 127 (3631 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I was surprised (unless I missed it while wading through all the sniping) that nobody had mentioned 'drawstrings' in skydiving helmets.

My Z1 has one to tighten the collar, and when it's pulled taught there are quite a few inches of excess elastic emerging from the back. I'm always careful to tuck it inside the collar before exit, but on quite a few videos I've seen it flapping around regardless during the jump.

Here's an item of clothing that's designed for skydiving, and yet according to some of the posts here includes a potential safety hazard. I'd pretty much decided that the entanglement risk was negligible, but the post about the sunglasses cord made me wonder.

I guess one bit of advice would be to replace the elastic in that type of helmet regularly. Thinking about it mine is very old and stretched, so there's more excess than there needs to be.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 10, 2012, 6:34 AM
Post #65 of 127 (3627 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
>tucked away as in behind my head back there with the hood.

Right. My advice would be to not have any loops of cord, period. They snag things; things go through them and get stuck. Even if you think they are tucked away. I've never seen a problem with a hoodie but I have seen a lot of them flopping around on the back of someone's helmet, so clearly "I'll tuck it away and it won't come out" doesn't always work.

Here's a scenario: you have a lazy throw of the PC or throw while unstable. The PC ends up sitting on top of your reserve for a few seconds, dancing around. (Any camera person or AFF JM has seen this many times.) The PC goes through the loop then finally inflates. You now have a PC in tow, trying to pull your dbag through the loop made by those drawstrings.

How do you deal with this problem?

While I agree that is a potential problem. However I when I tied mine, I didn't want them flopping around. The loop is just big enough to go around my neck, hence nothing flopping behind me. Yes, I do have something around my neck, but if its already snug and not flopping around how is anything going to snag on it?

If something still gets that close to my neck and I can't stop it, I need to rethink what I am doing in the air.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 10, 2012, 9:15 AM
Post #66 of 127 (3583 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
>tucked away as in behind my head back there with the hood.

Right. My advice would be to not have any loops of cord, period. They snag things; things go through them and get stuck. Even if you think they are tucked away. I've never seen a problem with a hoodie but I have seen a lot of them flopping around on the back of someone's helmet, so clearly "I'll tuck it away and it won't come out" doesn't always work.

Here's a scenario: you have a lazy throw of the PC or throw while unstable. The PC ends up sitting on top of your reserve for a few seconds, dancing around. (Any camera person or AFF JM has seen this many times.) The PC goes through the loop then finally inflates. You now have a PC in tow, trying to pull your dbag through the loop made by those drawstrings.

How do you deal with this problem?

While I agree that is a potential problem. However I when I tied mine, I didn't want them flopping around. The loop is just big enough to go around my neck, hence nothing flopping behind me. Yes, I do have something around my neck, but if its already snug and not flopping around how is anything going to snag on it?

If something still gets that close to my neck and I can't stop it, I need to rethink what I am doing in the air.

Hmmm? Maybe someone (Marriah) could post her video of her bridal wrapping her ponytail? It doesn't take much for a dancing bridal to grab hold of. Unsure


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 10, 2012, 9:18 AM
Post #67 of 127 (3582 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

 

Seems to me that there are enough known, proven hazards that have actually killed or injured skydivers (cameras, low turns, open flaps, misrouted RSLs, misrigged 3-rings, soft housings, badly fitting booties, wedding rings, closing loop attachments, unstowed brake line, uncocked PCs, worn grommets, twisted steering lines, power lines, swoop ponds, stow bands... and the list goes on and on) that to worry about something that has never proven to be a hazard is to have misplaced priorities.


(This post was edited by kallend on Oct 10, 2012, 9:18 AM)


Sped  (D 12662)

Oct 10, 2012, 12:28 PM
Post #68 of 127 (3529 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I have know of someone holding on to the door rear floating on a DC-3 that got a loose rivet under their ring, and while wearing gloves no less, Let go and left a neat little gray pouch with a finger hanging on the AC. My dad told me of a guy in the army who had all the meat stripped of his finger. I remove all rings, jewlery, necklaces, and leave them at home. It would piss the Ex-off to no end when going to a boogie and I would leave my ring and necklace in the box. and i always wear gloves no matter what


78RATS  (D 25449)

Oct 10, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #69 of 127 (3489 views)
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     Re: [Sped] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Responding to no one in particular....why is everyone acting like douchbags in this thread? Seems like a harmless enough question, with no absolute right/wrong answers.

BASEjumpers have had threads about this in the past. Obviously BASE is different, but the posts pointing out problems in the BASE threads have all related to skydiving. Reprinted below so you can all nitpick the shit out of it. HaHa! Cool



" I remember seeing a skydiving video about 5 or 6 years ago with a freeflier wearing a hoodie and doing weedwackers, the hood fully covered the reserve cap. kinda freaked me out about the whole hoodie idea, but i grew past it."


" only problem I've ever had with a hoody was doing a barrel roll at the end of a skydive, the hood covered my vision completely."

Carry on and TAKE IT DEEP!!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 10, 2012, 4:12 PM
Post #70 of 127 (3457 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

> but if its already snug and not flopping around how is anything going to snag on it?

People have lost fingers when wearing very snug rings. Bridles have snagged on helmets, reserve flaps, riser covers and altimeters. Shirts come untucked in freefall and cover handles even when they are tucked in very snugly; people go unstable and things that seem well tucked in end up loose.

It's a pretty minor risk but one that's very easy to avoid, which is why I would avoid it. There are enough risks in skydiving already.


erdnarob  (D 364)

Oct 10, 2012, 6:59 PM
Post #71 of 127 (3433 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Any protruding object can be a potential problem : hooded shirt, long hair not stuffed in the helmet, camera on helmet, necklace out in free fall, boots with hooks, arm, leg, rig flap,...name it... you can even get your finger caught in a steering line at opening when putting your hands on risers.


jooknow

Oct 10, 2012, 9:32 PM
Post #72 of 127 (3401 views)
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     Re: [Shredex] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Here is a video where they are testing a bridle getting snagged on a GoPro, notice the attire the tester has choose to wear ;p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsEI_6cErbM



Hoodie + Skydiving is probably just as dangerous, if not less dangerous then skydiving naked! Imagine someones willy or boobies getting caught in their bridle or risers! (Not sure how but imagination is key here!)

I knew it! I knew this was a thread about jumping naked.


rockola  (E 2631)

Oct 11, 2012, 6:16 AM
Post #73 of 127 (3376 views)
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     Re: [jooknow] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

FWIW I've thought about this too, and will not jump in a hoodie. I have enough clothes so I don't need to.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 11, 2012, 9:12 AM
Post #74 of 127 (3354 views)
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     Re: [rockola] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

I jump in Minnesota and Wisconsin in the winter.... I'd recommend a good turtle neck instead. Just as much cold wind protection without all the drama. Smile


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Oct 11, 2012, 11:26 AM
Post #75 of 127 (3333 views)
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     Re: [skyjumpenfool] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I jump in Minnesota and Wisconsin in the winter.... I'd recommend a good turtle neck instead. Just as much cold wind protection without all the drama. Smile

I have a hoodie that I call my "speed skater" hoodie. It's a thin fleece-lined poly material that fits under my other clothes and jumpsuit. It's also thin enough that I can wear the hood under my helmet. Neck and head are extra warm, and no snag risk from the hood itself. (No drawstrings - it has a zipper).


jumpwally  (D License)

Oct 22, 2012, 7:18 AM
Post #76 of 127 (3835 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Just give it time.....it willFrown


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 23, 2012, 11:16 AM
Post #77 of 127 (3746 views)
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     Re: [Sped] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I remove all rings, jewlery, necklaces, and leave them at home.
I'm happily married to an amazing woman for 28 years and I haven't worn my ring in 20 years. She knows I'm phobic about that type of injury and is quite fine with it staying on the dresser at home. Cool


DanDanInc  (Student)

Oct 23, 2012, 11:34 AM
Post #78 of 127 (3741 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I had an incident directly caused by a hooded sweatshirt once!

I loaned mine to an EXTREME hottie one chilly night at the DZ...her boyfriend showed up to return it the next day sporting rather aggressively unpleasant disposition.
A wuffo unfamilar with Skydiving protocal regarding such matters, I offered to hammer it out for him.

She told me over a romantic dinner the following weekend that her EX-boyfriend was 'wound too tight' and that the obvious malfunction caused her to initiate a cut-way procedure!

I conscientiously did a complete & thorough inspection of her hardware and performed several system checks... in the interest of safety ONLY of course. Blush

So I do indeed concur ~ Use of hoodies does have the potential of creating unforeseen situations in the skydiving enviroment that require quick & decisive action!! Angelic

Priceless.


980  (D 980)

Oct 29, 2012, 11:26 AM
Post #79 of 127 (3561 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Bottom line: If it provides no benefit to the jump, and isn't necessary to have, then there's no point in adding the risk, however small that might be.

Quite the sweeping statement you have there.

I wish you had some profile info, because if you have any significant number of skydives and you are flying something smaller and less docile/forgiving than modern student canopies (Navigator, Solo, etc) at about a 0.75 - 1.0 wingloading, you are adding risk for no real benefit.

While I agree with your statement if safety was your number one priority, I will paraphrase it a bit to make my point:


Bottom line: If it provides no benefit to jump, and it isn't necessary to jump, then there's no point in adding the risk, however small that might be.


So if you are doing any skydive following a non-emergency exit, you are adding unnecessary risk.

You might however be benefiting from that choice to jump with any of the following:
-money
-fun
-personal development
-relaxation
-skill development

People who add hoodies to their skydive are gaining the possible benefits of:
-comfort
-style
-less dressing/undressing
-no strutting around in a smelly nylon suit all day long


So while the benefits you could gain from jumping seem a little more important, you are still risking your life for what are essentially unimportant things.

So your position on hoodies and your sweeping statement is just your line in the sand.

The key to realize is that the hoodie wearers have a line in the sand too and criticizing their line from behind your line makes me think of that parable involving removing a log from one's own eye before helping your neighbour with the splinter in theirs...

That said, I do not actually know anything about your choices in skydiving, so please accept my sincere apology if you are jumping because you have no choice or if you are indeed sticking to student appropriate canopies your whole skydiving career.

sincerely
Sam


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 29, 2012, 11:41 AM
Post #80 of 127 (3556 views)
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     Re: [980] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

>People who add hoodies to their skydive are gaining the possible benefits of:
>-comfort
>-style
>-less dressing/undressing
>-no strutting around in a smelly nylon suit all day long

I don't get most of these. A regular sweatshirt is just as comfortable and won't whack the back of your head in freefall (which is definitely _less_ comfortable.) It's easy to unzip and peel off a jumpsuit to the waist; harder for a sweatshirt. (and they definitely get smellier faster, especially if it's hot out and you're wearing a sweatshirt.)

There's a fifth reason I could add to the above list, which is fallrate control. Sweatshirts work well for this, but again a non-hooded sweatshirt works a lot better.

That brings us to style, which I could see if such things were important to you - and if it floated your boat to not have to change your clothes to go skydiving. To each their own.


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 29, 2012, 11:54 AM
Post #81 of 127 (3565 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
There's a fifth reason I could add to the above list, which is fallrate control. Sweatshirts work well for this, but again a non-hooded sweatshirt works a lot better.

So a non hooded sweatshirt will actually slow me down better than a hooded one?


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Oct 29, 2012, 1:12 PM
Post #82 of 127 (3555 views)
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     Re: [980] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
People who add hoodies to their skydive are gaining the possible benefits of:
-comfort
-style
-less dressing/undressing
-no strutting around in a smelly nylon suit all day long

Ah yes, being stylish and lazy are excellent reasons for adding risk to your skydives! (sarcasm)


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2012, 1:56 PM
Post #83 of 127 (3463 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
People who add hoodies to their skydive are gaining the possible benefits of:
-comfort
-style
-less dressing/undressing
-no strutting around in a smelly nylon suit all day long

Ah yes, being stylish and lazy are excellent reasons for adding risk to your skydives! (sarcasm)

Has it been established that any skydiving injury or fatality has ever been attributed to a hoodie?


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Oct 31, 2012, 2:35 PM
Post #84 of 127 (3452 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:

I don't get most of these. A regular sweatshirt is just as comfortable and won't whack the back of your head in freefall (which is definitely _less_ comfortable.)
.

Never had my hood whacking me in the back of the head, unless I was back flying (which is just after the ride through on an AFF to see their canopy).


gearless_chris  (D 29012)

Oct 31, 2012, 4:25 PM
Post #85 of 127 (3423 views)
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     Re: [cocheese] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

 I would not jump with a hoodie because I seem to have all sorts of unusual things happen, and I don't want to be the first to find out there is a problem from jumping with hoodies. I have non-hooded sweatshirts for when people force me to jump when it's too cold.
I would not jump with a ring because of the very real possibility of a degloving incident, which has happened several times.
I would not jump with a necklace of any kind, I haven't heard of an incident involving a necklace yet, and I don't want to be the first for that either.
I would not jump with a full face helmet due to the sight restrictions/fogging issues. It would be nice for jumping in the rain, bu I know a few people that have had problems. Including the guy that almost went in because his visor froze over and he couldn't open it because of his GoPro.
I always jump with gloves. My landings aren't that great, and doing a dozen jumps a day on weekends is rough on the fingers.
I think I've only made 3 jumps without a camera helmet in the last 1,300+ jumps. Camera's are a risk I love to take.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Oct 31, 2012, 7:00 PM
Post #86 of 127 (3393 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Has it been established that any skydiving injury or fatality has ever been attributed to a hoodie?

At one time people like you said the same thing about rigid wingsuits, snaggy camera mounts, outward protruding ripcord handles, solid cone pin closures, boot lace hooks, non-tapered container flaps, flap stiffeners, anti-wind blast handles, kevlar lines, free-packing without a deployment bag, no riser covers, belly-mounted pilot chutes, capewell riser releases and other things that at the time they could not imagine possibly causing problems. But they all eventually did.

If it's unnecessary and serves no beneficial purpose, then why risk it?

But go right ahead and wear a hoodie if you want. Maybe you'll be lucky and nothing bad will happen. But that won't prove that something bad cannot happen. Then again, maybe you'll be the first to die from a hoodie/reserve pilot chute bridle entanglement.

Hey, maybe you could also jump with a machete as a hook knife. I've never heard of anyone dying from having a machete on their gear, so I'm sure it's perfectly safe.

Good luck with it!


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Oct 31, 2012, 7:08 PM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Nov 1, 2012, 1:11 PM
Post #87 of 127 (3337 views)
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     Re: [theonlyski] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
There's a fifth reason I could add to the above list, which is fallrate control. Sweatshirts work well for this, but again a non-hooded sweatshirt works a lot better.

So a non hooded sweatshirt will actually slow me down better than a hooded one?

I think the point was it'll slow you down AS WELL as the hooded version without the added risk? Shocked


theonlyski  (D License)

Nov 1, 2012, 1:14 PM
Post #88 of 127 (3334 views)
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     Re: [skyjumpenfool] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
There's a fifth reason I could add to the above list, which is fallrate control. Sweatshirts work well for this, but again a non-hooded sweatshirt works a lot better.

So a non hooded sweatshirt will actually slow me down better than a hooded one?

I think the point was it'll slow you down AS WELL as the hooded version without the added risk? Shocked

That's not what he said. Also, there has been no determination of there being added risk either. I'm not saying there isn't. I'm saying that it hasn't been determined yet.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 1, 2012, 3:34 PM
Post #89 of 127 (3316 views)
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     Re: [theonlyski] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

>So a non hooded sweatshirt will actually slow me down better than a hooded one?

About the same, with the non-hooded sweatshirt being easier to manage.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 5, 2012, 3:20 PM
Post #90 of 127 (3212 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Has it been established that any skydiving injury or fatality has ever been attributed to a hoodie?

At one time people like you said the same thing about rigid wingsuits, snaggy camera mounts, outward protruding ripcord handles, solid cone pin closures, boot lace hooks, non-tapered container flaps, flap stiffeners, anti-wind blast handles, kevlar lines, free-packing without a deployment bag, no riser covers, belly-mounted pilot chutes, capewell riser releases and other things that at the time they could not imagine possibly causing problems. But they all eventually did.

We indeed known from experience that certain things increase the risk of death and injury. Experience also shows that hoodies are not among them. It's not as if no-one has ever previously jumped in a hoodie.


theonlyski  (D License)

Nov 6, 2012, 6:07 AM
Post #91 of 127 (3162 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
>So a non hooded sweatshirt will actually slow me down better than a hooded one?

About the same, with the non-hooded sweatshirt being easier to manage.

So, "a non-hooded sweatshirt works a lot better." would be an incorrect statement.

They do the job the same. One is just in your opinion 'easier to manage'.

Correct?


david3  (D 21297)

Nov 6, 2012, 6:21 AM
Post #92 of 127 (3158 views)
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     Re: [theonlyski] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

[replySo, "a non-hooded sweatshirt works a lot better." would be an incorrect statement.

They do the job the same. One is just in your opinion 'easier to manage'.

Correct?
No.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 6, 2012, 6:57 AM
Post #93 of 127 (3150 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
We indeed known from experience that certain things increase the risk of death and injury. Experience also shows that hoodies are not among them. It's not as if no-one has ever previously jumped in a hoodie.

Incorrect. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean that it can't.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Nov 6, 2012, 9:08 AM
Post #94 of 127 (3128 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
We indeed known from experience that certain things increase the risk of death and injury. Experience also shows that hoodies are not among them. It's not as if no-one has ever previously jumped in a hoodie.

Incorrect. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean that it can't.

This could be the point where you found a new religion.

If none could come up some real event than let's just sit and watch those jumping in hoodies.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 6, 2012, 10:26 AM
Post #95 of 127 (3114 views)
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     Re: [phoenixlpr] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
We indeed known from experience that certain things increase the risk of death and injury. Experience also shows that hoodies are not among them. It's not as if no-one has ever previously jumped in a hoodie.

Incorrect. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean that it can't.

This could be the point where you found a new religion.

If none could come up some real event than let's just sit and watch those jumping in hoodies.

I have no religion - I'm an atheist and a pragmatic realist.

The theistic dogma is the belief that it's impossible for anything bad to ever happen with hoodies. That takes blind faith that does not comport with reality according to history.

I'm not saying that something bad WILL happen. I'm just saying that it's certainly possible. And it's impossible to say that it can NOT happen. Therefore, the prudent response is to not push your luck.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Nov 6, 2012, 10:29 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 6, 2012, 11:49 AM
Post #96 of 127 (3096 views)
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     Re: [theonlyski] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

>They do the job the same. One is just in your opinion 'easier to manage'.

I've used both. For me, non hooded sweatshirts work better. They are easier to manage, do not get wadded up between rig and the back of my helmet, and do not come out and flop about under canopy. I used one during the amazingly slow 300 way in 2002.

YMMV.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 6, 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #97 of 127 (3090 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
We indeed known from experience that certain things increase the risk of death and injury. Experience also shows that hoodies are not among them. It's not as if no-one has ever previously jumped in a hoodie.

Incorrect. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean that it can't.

OK, tell us which injury or fatality has been caused by a hoodie.

Or try looking up "experience" in a dictionary.


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 6, 2012, 4:04 PM
Post #98 of 127 (3067 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Nobody can prove that a hoodie will cause a fatality but it is certainly possible. If you want to jump one go for it, it probably won't kill anyone but you.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 6, 2012, 8:48 PM
Post #99 of 127 (3043 views)
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     Re: [Mr_Polite] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Nobody can prove that a hoodie will cause a fatality but it is certainly possible. If you want to jump one go for it, it probably won't kill anyone but you.

It's possible, but unlikely, that all the oxygen molecules in your room will migrate to the ceiling and you will suffocate.

Some things aren't worth worrying about.


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 6, 2012, 9:56 PM
Post #100 of 127 (3030 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Great! Keep testing if hoodies can cause any issues. I look forward to you results!


davelepka  (D 21448)

Nov 7, 2012, 4:47 AM
Post #101 of 127 (3509 views)
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     Re: [Mr_Polite] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Great! Keep testing if hoodies can cause any issues. I look forward to you results!

How many jumps, over how many years by how many individual jumpers does it take to complete the 'testing'? At what point can we sign them off as 'good to go'?
5 years? 10? 15?
10,000 jumps, 20,000 jumps, 50,000 jumps?
1000 jumpers? 2000 jumpers? 3000 jumpers?

I would suggest that we've reached (or exceeded) the all of those numbers without incident.

Here's a fun thought - how many test jumps do you think they put on the Skyhook system before they released it? More or less than the total number of trouble-free jumps with hoodies? That's a freaking HOOK in your reserve container, no less.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Nov 7, 2012, 4:48 AM)


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 7, 2012, 5:28 AM
Post #102 of 127 (3495 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Here's a fun thought, stop getting so worked up when someone doesn't agree with you dave. You're not the king of skydiving and not everyone gives a shit what you think. It is possible whether you believe it or not.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Nov 7, 2012, 5:44 AM
Post #103 of 127 (3484 views)
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     Re: [Mr_Polite] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Quote:
You're not the king of skydiving and not everyone gives a shit what you think.

I'm sure that's true, but is doesn't address the issue of when the 'test phase' for hoodies will be over.

If you don't like what I have to say, don't read my posts. If you don't want me to reply to your posts, don't post anything stupid, and I'll have nothing to comment on.


78RATS  (D 25449)

Nov 7, 2012, 7:14 AM
Post #104 of 127 (3469 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Again posting to no one in particular.

A stash bag draw string just killed a base jumper. First time ever. And we jump them all the time.

Carry on and TAKE IT DEEEEEP!!


fcajump  (D 15598)

Nov 7, 2012, 8:05 AM
Post #105 of 127 (3456 views)
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     Re: [78RATS] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Again posting to no one in particular.

A stash bag draw string just killed a base jumper. First time ever. And we jump them all the time.

Carry on and TAKE IT DEEEEEP!!

FrownSorry to hear that. Some lessons are learned at great cost.

Do you have a reference to the incident write-up?

JW


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 7, 2012, 8:42 AM
Post #106 of 127 (3446 views)
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     Re: [78RATS] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Again posting to no one in particular.

A stash bag draw string just killed a base jumper. First time ever. And we jump them all the time.

Carry on and TAKE IT DEEEEEP!!

So are all base jumpers going to stop doing it now?


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 7, 2012, 10:03 AM
Post #107 of 127 (3437 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
A stash bag draw string just killed a base jumper. First time ever. And we jump them all the time.

So are all base jumpers going to stop doing it now?

Are you suggesting that there's nothing for them to worry about with stash bags, and that they should continue to carry them without concern?


980  (D 980)

Nov 7, 2012, 10:28 AM
Post #108 of 127 (3424 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Are you suggesting that there's nothing for them to worry about with stash bags, and that they should continue to carry them without concern?

I will say it:

If you have a logically placed stashbag pocket on your backpad (i.e. opening to your left side, far away from your PC, reverse if applicable for lefthand BOCs) and you fold/stow your stashbag in there properly, then you have nothing to worry about.

To add experience to this, given your lack of profile info I feel somewhat confident assuming I have more BASE jumps than you have skydives, so while I see the effect of your fingers flapping on your keyboard, I tend to afford it little in the way of credibility, as I do with most blank profiles.

To get back on hoodie topic, if you watched that video that was linked, you might realize that the reserve container usually has one or more topflaps that do a really good job of keeping evil hoodies away from your reserve system.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 7, 2012, 2:35 PM
Post #109 of 127 (3402 views)
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     Re: [980] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

That's a might big "if", which turns your endorsement into a very narrowly conditioned one. In other words, stash bags stowed in manners outside your specific recommendations, could indeed still cause problems.


Zenister  (A 42)

Nov 8, 2012, 8:08 AM
Post #110 of 127 (3342 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

Is there ANY part of your gear that you believe is incapable of causing problems?

Seems like "Risk assessment" is an alien concept to some people in this thread. Its always possible anything you jump with could cause a problem under the right(wrong) circumstances, but if no one can point to a single incident of a hooded sweatshirt causing a problem, the risk associated with jumping with one is very low.

If you are really bored (or care enough to really find out how probable it is) why don't you TRY to induce one and see exactly how hard it is to INTENTIONALLY create a problem.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 8, 2012, 7:18 PM
Post #111 of 127 (3272 views)
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     Re: [Zenister] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Is there ANY part of your gear that you believe is incapable of causing problems?

No. But most of it is essential to have, so you have to accept the risk that comes with it. Hoodies are not essential, so you do not have to accept that risk.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 9, 2012, 7:15 AM
Post #112 of 127 (3246 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Is there ANY part of your gear that you believe is incapable of causing problems?

No. But most of it is essential to have, so you have to accept the risk that comes with it. Hoodies are not essential, so you do not have to accept that risk.

Booties aren't essential.
Grippers aren't essential.
Wingsuits aren't essential.
Cameras aren't essential.
Audible altimeters aren't essential.
Gloves aren't essential.
...
...
...
etc.

You are making a silly argument.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Nov 9, 2012, 11:21 AM
Post #113 of 127 (3221 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Is there ANY part of your gear that you believe is incapable of causing problems?

No. But most of it is essential to have, so you have to accept the risk that comes with it. Hoodies are not essential, so you do not have to accept that risk.

Booties aren't essential.
Tell that to a 4 way team.
Grippers aren't essential.
Tell that to anyone doing RW.
Wingsuits aren't essential.
They are if you want to do a wingsuit jump?
Cameras aren't essential.
Unless you want video/stills?
Audible altimeters aren't essential.
Hmmm? Ok.
Gloves aren't essential.
Come jump next month in Minnesota.

CoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCool


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 9, 2012, 11:40 AM
Post #114 of 127 (3212 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

>Booties aren't essential.

Booties aren't essential in skydiving, and they pose more risk (more snag hazard.) But they are useful and are often used by 4 way teams to improve their scores. If 4-way teams all wore booties, but all tucked them out of the way before skydiving, then their use would be a lot more questionable - more risk for no improvement.

>Grippers aren't essential.

Grippers aren't essential in skydiving, and they pose more risk (more snag hazard.) But they are useful and are often used by 4 way teams to be able to do 4-way, and by bigways to help them to succeed. If RW people all used grippers, but tucked them out of the way before skydiving, then their use would be a lot more questionable - more risk for no improvement.

>Wingsuits aren't essential.

Wingsuits aren't essential in skydiving, and they pose a lot more risk (handle accessibility, collision hazards, restriction of motion etc.) But they are useful to people who want to do horizontal dives, and wingsuits help them do this. If wingsuiters all used wingsuits, but took them off and tied them around their waists before exiting, then their use would be a lot more questionable - more risk for no improvement.

That being said, if you want to jump with a hoodie (or a lot of jewelry, or very long unrestrained hair) go for it. It's more risk, but everyone can decide what level of risk they want to take for themselves.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 9, 2012, 2:12 PM
Post #115 of 127 (3186 views)
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     Re: [skyjumpenfool] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
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Is there ANY part of your gear that you believe is incapable of causing problems?

No. But most of it is essential to have, so you have to accept the risk that comes with it. Hoodies are not essential, so you do not have to accept that risk.

Booties aren't essential.
Tell that to a 4 way team.
Grippers aren't essential.
Tell that to anyone doing RW.
Wingsuits aren't essential.
They are if you want to do a wingsuit jump?
Cameras aren't essential.
Unless you want video/stills?
Audible altimeters aren't essential.
Hmmm? Ok.
Gloves aren't essential.
Come jump next month in Minnesota.

CoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCool

Nope. You can skydive without any item on that list. They just make things easier, more comfortable or more convenient. If booties and grippers were banned from 4 way, it would just revert to how it was in the olden days.TongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongue


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 9, 2012, 4:07 PM
Post #116 of 127 (3177 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

>Nope. You can skydive without any item on that list.

Sure you can. But they all _help_ you skydive. The hood of a sweatshirt doesn't - which is why people have all sorts of tricks they use to hide it away when they jump.

But if it's important to you, then jump with it. Your choice.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 10, 2012, 1:08 PM
Post #117 of 127 (3148 views)
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     Re: [billvon] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
>Nope. You can skydive without any item on that list.

Sure you can. .

As I said. Thank you.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 10, 2012, 6:33 PM
Post #118 of 127 (3112 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

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In reply to:
>Nope. You can skydive without any item on that list.

Sure you can. .

As I said. Thank you.

You're conveniently ignoring the difference between those items and hoodies: those items all provide benefits to the skydive, while a hoodie does not.

What benefit does a hoodie provide to your skydive? Does it make you track further? Does it give you fall rate control? Does it make your canopy open better? What?


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Nov 10, 2012, 7:28 PM
Post #119 of 127 (3104 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

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In reply to:
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>Nope. You can skydive without any item on that list.

Sure you can. .

As I said. Thank you.

You're conveniently ignoring the difference between those items and hoodies: those items all provide benefits to the skydive, while a hoodie does not.

What benefit does a hoodie provide to your skydive? Does it make you track further? Does it give you fall rate control? Does it make your canopy open better? What?

Funny you should ask. It was much colder than expected today. So in freefall I pulled the hood on and tightened the strings to stop my head from burning. So after the first 2 jumps I started using the balaclava. Well it turns out its stretched out. How did I remedy this you may ask? Well I put the hood on first then the balaclava, and it kept my head nice and toasty so I could finish doing tandems today.

So yes a hoodie can be useful to somebody in freefall. Before you ask no I won't wear a hard helmet doing tandems. Why? 1. I struggle to hear my students when my helmet is on. 2. I have a metal gopro mount on the front, which could cause some serious damage to the back of the head of my student.


BMFin

Nov 11, 2012, 7:47 AM
Post #120 of 127 (3057 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
What benefit does a hoodie provide to your skydive?

Why wear a hoodie ? Well, it annoys those conservative dinosaurs who think wearing a hoodie is dangerous. Thats a big plus.


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 11, 2012, 8:37 AM
Post #121 of 127 (3051 views)
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     Re: [BMFin] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
What benefit does a hoodie provide to your skydive?

Why wear a hoodie ? Well, it annoys those conservative dinosaurs who think wearing a hoodie is dangerous. Thats a big plus.

Sly

Yeah...that and it'll keep you head warm in the impact crater while you wait for the meat wagon! Tongue


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 11, 2012, 9:39 AM
Post #122 of 127 (3038 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
What benefit does a hoodie provide to your skydive?

Why wear a hoodie ? Well, it annoys those conservative dinosaurs who think wearing a hoodie is dangerous. Thats a big plus.

Sly

Yeah...that and it'll keep you head warm in the impact crater while you wait for the meat wagon! Tongue

Well, given that you've been skydiving since before Tiny Broadwick, please tell us how many craters have been caused in all that time on account of people wearing hoodies.


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 11, 2012, 2:02 PM
Post #123 of 127 (3005 views)
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     Re: [jtiflyer] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
It was much colder than expected today. So in freefall I pulled the hood on and tightened the strings to stop my head from burning.

Strings? No nothing could possibly go wrong with dangly strings around your neck. Not to worry!


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 11, 2012, 2:03 PM
Post #124 of 127 (3004 views)
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     Re: [BMFin] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Why wear a hoodie ? Well, it annoys those conservative dinosaurs who think wearing a hoodie is dangerous. Thats a big plus.

Another excellent reason to add risk to your skydive!

I wonder if you guys realize that by trying to defend the practice, you're actually helping to make it look like a bad idea.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Nov 11, 2012, 2:05 PM)


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 11, 2012, 2:08 PM
Post #125 of 127 (3002 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
please tell us how many craters have been caused in all that time on account of people wearing hoodies.

"It's never happened before that we know of, therefore nothing can possibly go wrong and it's perfectly safe."

And this logic comes from a college professor? Do you teach your engineering students this kind of mindset?


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 11, 2012, 4:49 PM
Post #126 of 127 (2057 views)
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     Re: [CarpeDiem3] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
please tell us how many craters have been caused in all that time on account of people wearing hoodies.

"It's never happened before that we know of, therefore nothing can possibly go wrong and it's perfectly safe."

And this logic comes from a college professor? Do you teach your engineering students this kind of mindset?

1. Strawman.

2. Your argument (I won't grace it with the description "logic") can apply to absolutely anything at all that has never caused a problem. So where will you stop? Underpants? Bras?

3. FACT IS, with all the things to worry about that have caused problems in the past, you are getting hysterical about an item that has no record at all of ever having caused a problem.


sundevil777  (D License)

Nov 11, 2012, 4:55 PM
Post #127 of 127 (2053 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Have hooded sweatshirts ever caused a malfunction or incident? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
hysterical

exaggeration



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