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mrshutter45

Sep 29, 2012, 9:15 AM
Post #36451 of 55267 (33917 views)
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920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

alen G Cook wrote:
Thanks, Sluggo, and I hope that your health is on the mend.

A brief comment to make regarding the upcoming book about Kenny Christianson as D.B. Cooper. I don't want to make any statements about Skipp Porteus abilities, because I consider him a friend, a colleague in the business, and a competent professional. However, I long-ago discounted any connections between Kenny Christianson and D.B. Cooper. To make that assumption is a huge leap based on no tangible evidence. Kenny Christianson's involvement would require real scrutiny of a potential "insider's job." The airline world is a small community, especially back in 1971. Airline crews were on the move and ran across other company employees on a continual basis. The real D.B. Cooper would not possibly hope to get away clean if he worked with other employees of the same company. [Remember: Alice Hancock, Florence Schafner and Tina Mucklow were flying this route during November 1971 and they all were eye-witnesses].

The second thing is this: I was speaking on the air with radio host Mike Fitzsimmons (920 AM Spokane, WA) in November 2007, discussing the Cooper case. Mike got Lyle Christianson on the show and we debated about his brother being Cooper. I asked Lyle if Kenny ever made a confession to ANYONE about being Cooper. Lyle said no. Apparently, Lyle based his sole belief on his brother being the one because Kenny muttered that "he had a secret to devulge," He just couldn't say what the secret was. The real D.B. Cooper would have made a confession to someone. That is the basis for beginning an investigation. Additionally, Lyle made it pretty clear during our debate that he thought it "would be neat to have a movie made about his brother being D.B. Cooper."

Several months later during a chat with Skipp Porteus, Skipp told me that Kenny Christianson's secret was probably that he was gay. Even a cursory examination of Geoff Gray's article from October 2007, leaves you with the impression that Kenny Christianson was involved with young men (maybe even under-aged young men.


Farflung

Sep 29, 2012, 10:35 AM
Post #36452 of 55267 (33898 views)
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That Was Never Not Said Before Now In The Past [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins in typical succinct and clear diction wrote regarding the source of the Dan Cooper comic:

“No, the historian at NWA did NOT say he saw the comic at Shemya. He said it was possible that a foreign comic could have ended up there……”

It’s all so clear now with this fine mesh research. It was “possible” for a “foreign” (presume not the same for domestic?) comic to have been at Shemya. Very different from the previous claim that there was Dan Cooper comics in the day room on Shemya. Where did that crap come from? The person who told you that must be ridiculed and taunted, for being such an epic ass munch. Since it was NOT the NWA historian, then who was it? Name of the source must be published so the overdue punishment can be delivered. Who made you humiliate and debase yourself RobertMBlevins? You must want revenge for the way you were used like a piece of comfort station tissue, and thrown on the floor as a final insult. He used you as nothing more than some sort of tool for his own perverse jollies.

You must remember that Marla used the same comic, except she accurately represented a time window in which it could have been in her uncle’s room. She was being honest and accurate as a LIVING, first hand, witness to the existence of the Dan Cooper comic. Much better than some second hand recall of some ‘cigarette coupons’ as evidence. This in comparison to the PUBLISHED and VERIFIED statement that Dan Cooper comics were on Shemya in 1951, where Kenny worked, which turns out to be one of many “fluid inaccuracies” (read BS).

Who told you about Dan Cooper comics on Shemya? Name this loser.
Attachments: Comic.jpg (192 KB)


georger

Sep 29, 2012, 11:00 AM
Post #36453 of 55267 (33884 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Smokers Appearance In A Photo?! [In reply to] Can't Post

No...it is NOT my job to prove your allegations with your (LOL) 'ironclad proof'. That is your job. I can't believe you are still going with that phony Geoff Gray quote, as well. Yada yada yada. You never provided any proof of that either...Crazy.
You cant handle the truth.


(This post was edited by georger on Sep 29, 2012, 11:22 AM)


RobertMBlevins

Sep 29, 2012, 11:31 AM
Post #36454 of 55267 (33875 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
alen G Cook wrote:
Thanks, Sluggo, and I hope that your health is on the mend.

A brief comment to make regarding the upcoming book about Kenny Christianson as D.B. Cooper. I don't want to make any statements about Skipp Porteus abilities, because I consider him a friend, a colleague in the business, and a competent professional. However, I long-ago discounted any connections between Kenny Christianson and D.B. Cooper. To make that assumption is a huge leap based on no tangible evidence. Kenny Christianson's involvement would require real scrutiny of a potential "insider's job." The airline world is a small community, especially back in 1971. Airline crews were on the move and ran across other company employees on a continual basis. The real D.B. Cooper would not possibly hope to get away clean if he worked with other employees of the same company. [Remember: Alice Hancock, Florence Schafner and Tina Mucklow were flying this route during November 1971 and they all were eye-witnesses].

The second thing is this: I was speaking on the air with radio host Mike Fitzsimmons (920 AM Spokane, WA) in November 2007, discussing the Cooper case. Mike got Lyle Christianson on the show and we debated about his brother being Cooper. I asked Lyle if Kenny ever made a confession to ANYONE about being Cooper. Lyle said no. Apparently, Lyle based his sole belief on his brother being the one because Kenny muttered that "he had a secret to devulge," He just couldn't say what the secret was. The real D.B. Cooper would have made a confession to someone. That is the basis for beginning an investigation. Additionally, Lyle made it pretty clear during our debate that he thought it "would be neat to have a movie made about his brother being D.B. Cooper."

Several months later during a chat with Skipp Porteus, Skipp told me that Kenny Christianson's secret was probably that he was gay. Even a cursory examination of Geoff Gray's article from October 2007, leaves you with the impression that Kenny Christianson was involved with young men (maybe even under-aged young men.

Reading all of the above, a couple of things come to mind. BTW: Does this come from Gray, or was it from Galen Cook? Sounds like Cook. Let's get this straight. The same Galen Cook who swallowed the Janet Fable hook, line, and sinker for the Utah Standard Examiner? The same guy who thought the Cooper money was in a box up in Vancouver, BC? Same guy who used earlier pictures of his suspect to compare to the sketch but can't come up with one around the actual YEAR the hijacking occurred? Just want to establish that.

First, Lyle didn't say on the radio he didn't believe his brother was Cooper. Georger claimed that, but it turns out not to be true, especially if you are going on the statement I quoted above. I'm sure the old man (Lyle) wished that his brother WAS Cooper. No one has been able to prove that as of yet. Lyle would have no idea whether his brother was the hijacker. Kenny didn't say he was, and Lyle only saw Kenny once or twice a year. The only thing Lyle REALLY did was put other people onto investigating his brother.

Testimony from 'Mac' (Brian McWilliams, who lived off and on with Christiansen) in the Gray article states that Christiansen sometimes hung out with ex-Army buddies, but McWilliams also makes a point that HE was not approached by Kenny in an untoward way, and says Kenny helped young men occasionally by giving them money and a temporary place to stay. Nothing is mentioned about Kenny having sex with underage boys...which by the way...in Washington can get you many years in prison.

If Geoff Gray was supposedly so convinced that Christiansen was NOT Cooper...then why is a great deal of his book dedicated to the very possibility he WAS? In fact, the first chapter is all about Porteous, Gray, etc. When I first read Skyjack, I was surprised that Gray went on about Christiansen as much as he did, because Gray knew nothing about the investigation into Christiansen by AB and Porteous. This is because when plans for Blast went forward, Porteous cut Gray out of the information loop. BTW: This was the only thing Porteous did where I disagreed, because he did not tell me about it. Had I known, I would have contacted Gray and kept him updated while he was writing his book. When I met Gray last year, one of the first things I told him was that it was too bad we didn't interview the witnesses together, and I apologized for Porteous cutting him out of the loop. That's why I gave Gray the flash drive.

On the matter of whether Christiansen would have been recognized by other employees: Most of the people Gray interviewed who worked with KC hardly remembered him. Same thing when Porteous checked. Same thing when I checked, although I only spoke to two people, while Gray and Porteous spoke to a few more than that. Also, NWA used to keep the same crews on the same routes a lot, and Kenny worked the overseas Orient routes, while Flight 305 was domestic. In addition, we know Kenny only worked a couple of flights a month, on average, and that's when he was actually working. We also know that Christiansen did two things just after the hijacking that may or may not matter: He changed the way he dressed, and he stopped attending union meetings.

When Flo Schaffner examined photos of Kenny, she thought he might be a match, but she never said she recognized him as an employee. In fact, some of the people Kenny worked with responded with 'Kenny Who?' when interviewed by Gray. This is detailed in Gray's magazine article extensively. The NWA historian who was interviewed for Decoded (Bruce Kitt) admitted it was very possible that an employee could go undetected by others because of the way the crews worked. Kitt is the President of the NWA History Center in Minneapolis.

In Blast, there is a picture of the famous comic. This is what it says beneath the picture:

Quote:
'This comic was linked by the F.B.I. as a possible clue to the choice of name used by the hijacker. Nothing has been proven on it one way or another. Even if the hijacker was inspired by the comic to use the name ‘Dan Cooper,’ unless the comic can be linked to a specific suspect, it remains only an interesting speculation...'

Was the 'big secret' that Kenny was gay? NO. Christiansen's family has stated they all knew he was gay by the time he was sixteen years old. This is from Lyle Christiansen, and KC's nephew Bruce Christiansen. It wasn't a secret.

I can't prove KC was the hijacker. No way. But I wonder how much more BS I have to listen to from Farflung (said NWA never had strikes when there were four between 1960-1970), and Georger, (quotes Lyle wrongly from a radio interview). Farflung tries to split hairs by saying an entire airline never goes on strike. True enough, but if the flight engineers refuse to work, planes stay on the ground and NO ONE works. Same thing.

Georger likes to quote Gray telling him that I'm 'completely untrustworthy' etc. The truth is that Gray never said that. I met Gray only once, and I trusted him with every single file, document, and picture we had on Christiansen. He never had to trust me on anything, while I gave him everything and asked for nothing in return.

Later, when I confronted Georger on this supposed quote, he tried to blame it off on someone else.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Sep 29, 2012, 11:48 AM)


mrshutter45

Sep 29, 2012, 11:40 AM
Post #36455 of 55267 (33867 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

I was trying to find the interview but came up empty, I found this from Sluggo's site, the comments at the bottom is what I posted, don't know if they are really who they say they are since they are just comments!

just thought I would post it.

http://sluggoblog.n467us.com/...nd-another-book.aspx


Farflung

Sep 29, 2012, 12:14 PM
Post #36456 of 55267 (33858 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

So ummm….. Who said there were Dan Cooper comics on Shemya? Don’t you want this person punished and disgraced, as he so richly deserves?

Give his name, he obviously lied or suffered some massive head trauma in the past. Do you want other ineffective authors to fall victim to the same person? I think not.

As with the strikes, NONE of them were by Northwest Airlines, but mechanics, pilots and flight attendant unions. Kenny should have been angered by the unions and NOT Northwest Airlines. The association with Northwest being the blame for strikes is lame and desperate, while becoming pathetic once the relationships are finally pointed out. Just like the Dan Cooper comics NOT being on Shemya. Someone either blew it (as a source) or someone just made all this up out of whole cloth. Which is it?

I would imagine RobertMBlevins would want to contact 920 AM, and investigate the interview using his unflappable expertise and find out if Lyle said he never thought Kenny was Cooper. Imagine all the endless gloating RobertMBlevins could wage against georger! How many times has RobertMBlevins claimed to be the FIRST person to suggest Cooper walked backwards down the stairs? Thousands and thousands? Here’s some winning lottery numbers: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,…… see what a clever boy? If any of those numbers come up, it will be ME who suggested them first. Gosh I’m cool.


georger

Sep 29, 2012, 1:00 PM
Post #36457 of 55267 (33845 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Later, when I confronted Georger on this supposed quote, he tried to blame it off on someone else.

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe
Your attempts to deny and re-interpret what I said...
It is what it is. It is what it was. And you are what
you are ... as evidence in two years of your posts in
this thread. A legend in his own mind -

Coming from the fool who told us there were 'optical
illusions in an airplane cabin' trying to change
physics to squeak Christiansen in ...

Nice try Marilyn. Keep playing the Fool.

Give Mike Fitzsimmons a call - he will set you
straight! Laugh


(This post was edited by georger on Sep 29, 2012, 1:06 PM)


RobertMBlevins

Sep 29, 2012, 1:05 PM
Post #36458 of 55267 (33841 views)
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Re: [Farflung] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

Farflung: Your questions have been asked and answered already with the exception of one:

'Who said the Cooper comic was on Shemya?'

Guilty as charged. Early on in the investigation, I made a real leap of logic that turned out NOT to be logical. After an NWA historian told me about flight crews coming from Canada, Europe, and the US to refuel on Shemya...and that these same crews often gathered up whatever reading material was on board and dropped it in the Day Room...I postulated that maybe Kenny saw the comic there. Especially after he says comics were REALLY popular with the boys on Shemya.

This turned out to be wrong, since I found out later that the date of the first Cooper comic and the dates Kenny served on Shemya probably didn't overlap. That's why such an assumption doesn't appear in Blast.

The REAL problem with the comic in linking it to Cooper is twofold:

1) It was a limited-distribution comic, only available in parts of Canada and in Europe.

2) Dan Cooper is a rather common name. Now, if the comic character's name had been 'Bartholomew Streiziak,' and the hijacker had chosen that name...then maybe you could assume the hijacker was thinking of the comic when he gave a name for his boarding pass. As far as Marla Cooper and her claim that good old Uncle LD had them posted on his wall? Her sister, mother, and brother all refused to confirm that...even though all three of them were at the house in Sisters. Oregon on that particular Thanksgiving. So you have to take her claim on that with a grain of salt.

You're still splitting hairs on the NWA strikes. The point is that when the NWA planes sat on the ground, the NWA employees did not work, ergo they got no money. Pretty simple concept there, Farflung.

As far as the 920AM radio interview, all I have to do is quote from (Cook's?) statement about it a few posts back. Show me where it says Lyle said he didn't think his brother was the hijacker. Face it, Georger made that up...along with his phony quote by Geoff Gray. I asked for proof on those statements, and he couldn't provide any. Seems reasonable to me.

Georger says in part:

Quote:
'Your attempts to deny and re-interpret what I said... It is what it is. It is what it was.

Coming from the fool who told us there were 'optical
illusions in an airplane cabin' trying to change
physics to squeak Christiansen in ...

Nice try Marilyn. Keep playing the Fool.

Give Mike Fitzsimmons a call he will set you
straight!'

If you're going to quote me, get it right. I said it 'might be difficult to judge someone's true height within the confines of an airliner cabin, rather than out in the open...' Besides, unless you are ready to call Geoff Gray a liar, he says that according to the FBI witness reports he was allowed to view, the height of the hijacker ranged from maybe five-nine to over six feet, depending on who was being interviewed. So what's the truth? I haven't a clue. The stews, the witnesses, agreed on only a few points. In fact, all three stews gave three different results from the FBI's facial recognition workbook. Gray also said that. Is he lying? I think you're just pissed off because I called you out on your phony quote by Gray, and the fact that Lyle said no such thing in a radio interview from five years ago. As if Lyle would actually KNOW if his brother was the hijacker anyway. Crazy

'It is what it is?' Well, what exactly IS it? LOL. You are the one who quoted the Fitzsimmons interview. You should call him. Do you think I am here to jump at your every unsupported claim? I think not.

And BTW, my name is actually Robert.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Sep 29, 2012, 1:25 PM)


mrshutter45

Sep 29, 2012, 1:05 PM
Post #36459 of 55267 (33839 views)
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Re: [georger] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Later, when I confronted Georger on this supposed quote, he tried to blame it off on someone else.

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

Your attempts to deny and re-interpret what I said...
It is what it is. It is what it was.

Coming from the fool who told us there were 'optical
illusions in an airplane cabin' trying to change
physics to squeak Christiansen in ...

Nice try Marilyn. Keep playing the Fool.

Give Mike Fitzsimmons a call - he will set you
straight! Laugh
is it possible we have this wrong about the high heels, maybe KC was wearing them, this could explain why they had to look up at him CoolWinkSly


georger

Sep 29, 2012, 1:08 PM
Post #36460 of 55267 (33755 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

 
'Who said the Cooper comic was on Shemya?'

Guilty as charged. Early on in the investigation, I made a real leap of logic that turned out NOT to be logical. .
Yea you make A LOT OF LEAPS IN LOGIC!

That is the under-statement of your whole tenure at
Dropzone.

How about HAVING A BIG CUP OF "SHUT THE FUCK
UP" !


georger

Sep 29, 2012, 1:10 PM
Post #36461 of 55267 (33751 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Later, when I confronted Georger on this supposed quote, he tried to blame it off on someone else.

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

Your attempts to deny and re-interpret what I said...
It is what it is. It is what it was.

Coming from the fool who told us there were 'optical
illusions in an airplane cabin' trying to change
physics to squeak Christiansen in ...

Nice try Marilyn. Keep playing the Fool.

Give Mike Fitzsimmons a call - he will set you
straight! Laugh

is it possible we have this wrong about the high heels, maybe KC was wearing them, this could explain why they had to look up at him CoolWinkSly
a lot of high heels on short people here !

Laugh


mrshutter45

Sep 29, 2012, 1:14 PM
Post #36462 of 55267 (33745 views)
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Re: [georger] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Later, when I confronted Georger on this supposed quote, he tried to blame it off on someone else.

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

Your attempts to deny and re-interpret what I said...
It is what it is. It is what it was.

Coming from the fool who told us there were 'optical
illusions in an airplane cabin' trying to change
physics to squeak Christiansen in ...

Nice try Marilyn. Keep playing the Fool.

Give Mike Fitzsimmons a call - he will set you
straight! Laugh

is it possible we have this wrong about the high heels, maybe KC was wearing them, this could explain why they had to look up at him CoolWinkSly

a lot of high heels on short people here !

Laugh
and coke bottle glasses Cool


RobertMBlevins

Sep 29, 2012, 1:29 PM
Post #36463 of 55267 (33729 views)
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Re: [georger] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
'Who said the Cooper comic was on Shemya?'

Guilty as charged. Early on in the investigation, I made a real leap of logic that turned out NOT to be logical. .

Yea you make A LOT OF LEAPS IN LOGIC!

That is the under-statement of your whole tenure at
Dropzone.

How about HAVING A BIG CUP OF "SHUT THE FUCK
UP" !
I'm going to quote your post for the record, because at this point if you end with a timeout because of it...you definitely deserve it. I don't have a problem with you questioning points on Christiansen. That's normal. I do have a problem with you simply attacking the messenger, something you are famous for. If Quade were to ask me whether you should be banned, (yeah, I know he wouldn't) I would still say NO. Believe it or not, I still think you are a positive contributor to this thread, but you need to get past your personal issues against me. We can just assume you don't like me and move on.

I'd go along with the high-heels thing except that the stews saw the shoes. Smile


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Sep 29, 2012, 1:35 PM)


georger

Sep 29, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #36464 of 55267 (33717 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
'Who said the Cooper comic was on Shemya?'

Guilty as charged. Early on in the investigation, I made a real leap of logic that turned out NOT to be logical. .

Yea you make A LOT OF LEAPS IN LOGIC!

That is the under-statement of your whole tenure at
Dropzone.

How about HAVING A BIG CUP OF "SHUT THE FUCK
UP" !

I'm going to quote your post for the record, because at this point if you end with a timeout because of it...you definitely deserve it. I don't have a problem with you questioning points on Christiansen. That's normal. I do have a problem with you simply attacking the messenger, something you are famous for. If Quade were to ask me whether you should be banned, (yeah, I know he wouldn't) I would still say NO. Believe it or not, I still think you are a positive contributor to this thread, but you need to get past your personal issues against me. We can just assume you don't like me and move on.
Thats ALWAYS your last resort - Georger being
banned.

Won't call Mike Fitzsimmons, but will call me a liar -
won't call Gray, but will call me a liar - finally admits
he made mistakes after months of arguing not -

Then claims its personal on "my" end - ! ? Crazy
Since when is anyone responsible for your
obsessions and posts?

Same old same old. Play it again, Sam.

It's personal with you Blevins and nobody else,
you're the one obsessed with this subject and
people here, and the rest of this forum and
everyone in it - are irrelevant in your obsession.

"A legend in his own mind." (Sluggo)


(This post was edited by georger on Sep 29, 2012, 1:51 PM)


BobKnoss

Sep 29, 2012, 1:53 PM
Post #36465 of 55267 (33705 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Only Jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
well, I still have the "X" chute question......

How many jumpers here are comfortable jumping without a reserve chute?

would you do this exact jump without a reserve chute?

was Cooper that stupid by taking the chute with the "X" and not knowing? he did destroy the good one?


Really DUMB questions after I GIVE you the true answers!! Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different answer. Beyond belief, Banded Badger Baloney.


Farflung

Sep 29, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #36466 of 55267 (33705 views)
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Eight Miles High [In reply to] Can't Post

It might be difficult…. It might be a cinch…. It might be somewhat non-committal, in a direct fashion which could confirm the unknown, as I have said many times before.

Judging someone’s “true” height (as opposed to judging their false height) within the confines of an airliner cabin, might be difficult.

I base this on absolutely no empirical data from flight crews, NWA historians, the first woman to drive four Clydesdales abreast or the wife of a Boulder cop, but pure and unashamed, wishful thinking. So there!

So how high is a transvestite flight attendant?
Attachments: WIthering Heights.jpg (184 KB)


RobertMBlevins

Sep 29, 2012, 1:59 PM
Post #36467 of 55267 (33705 views)
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Re: [georger] 920 AM [In reply to] Can't Post

1) Nobody wants to see you get banned. I said that.

2) I don't have Geoff Gray's phone number. That is you, remember? Why don't you call him and ask him for a confirm-or-deny? Then publish the results.

3) I have no intention of calling YOUR sources for YOUR claims. Neither of those claims has anything to do with any possible case against Christiansen. This is because one is an opinion (Gray supposedly saying I am 'completely untrustworthy') and the other doesn't matter. (Lyle saying in 2007 that he didn't think his brother was the hijacker)

For the record, I don't believe either one of your claims, i.e. your Gray quote on my honesty, and your statement on what Lyle may or may not have said in an old radio interview. It is not my job to check your empty allegations, but YOUR job to prove such allegations, since YOU were the one who said them.


mrshutter45

Sep 29, 2012, 2:13 PM
Post #36468 of 55267 (33700 views)
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Re: [BobKnoss] Only Jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
well, I still have the "X" chute question......

How many jumpers here are comfortable jumping without a reserve chute?

would you do this exact jump without a reserve chute?

was Cooper that stupid by taking the chute with the "X" and not knowing? he did destroy the good one?


Really DUMB questions after I GIVE you the true answers!! Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different answer. Beyond belief, Banded Badger Baloney.

Bob you know absolutely nothing about the truth, answer the questions I asked one page back....truth boy!!!!

or maybe talk about your friend Dave Haapala and his father Bernie!!


Bob look here


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Sep 29, 2012, 2:25 PM)
Attachments: head.jpg (10.9 KB)


Farflung

Sep 29, 2012, 2:20 PM
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Circular Logic [In reply to] Can't Post

Judging someone’s “true” height (as oppose to judging their false height) within the confines of an airliner cabin, might be difficult.

So the witnesses who said DB Cooper was over six foot tall were wrong because it is difficult to judge a “true” height in an airliner. Well OK then.

But that doesn’t matter because Kenny lied about his height on his driver’s license and on his military records for reasons unknown. Presumably an indicator of just how long he’s been plotting this crime! Yes, since his days in the Army and long before he hated the constantly striking Northwest Orient Airlines because the airline was always on strike, he pre-lied about his height. Clever boy that Kenny.

RobertMBlevins has claimed to have scientifically measured Kenny (without sources of course) by comparing a photo of Kenny’s father (who is 5’ 11”, even though RobertMBlevins could not ID Kenny’s father in a photo from WWI) where Kenny towers over his old man, making Kenny at least 6’ tall. Of course this photographic analysis remains hidden from scrutiny for reasons unknown, but the 99s did a comparison of Kenny’s height to a door hinge and arrived at 5’ 8” to 5’ 10” with sources.

Once again, if Kenny is 5’8” or 6’3” makes no difference because all are claimed and witnesses are unreliable about height but very good at identifying cigarette brands by coupons. Yeah, I’ll buy a little of that action.


Robert99

Sep 29, 2012, 2:22 PM
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Re: [skyjack71] Not over Until The Fat Lady Sings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Perhaps the FAT LADY is going to be singing pretty soon! You Think?

The Cooper Saga is coming to an end VERY soon and it could NOT come soon enough for me - I am tired.

So many twists and turns and so many yrs, but perserverance usually pays off.

No, I haven't put Weber in a chute! But I think the CASE is OVER!

Jo, If you are threatening to blow the lid off this thread then feel free to do so.

The Cooper saga will continue for some time. The Duane Weber saga ended long ago, but you didn't notice.

So let the FAT lady sing.

Robert99


RobertMBlevins

Sep 29, 2012, 2:48 PM
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Re: [Robert99] Not over Until The Fat Lady Sings [In reply to] Can't Post

Farflung says in part:

Quote:
'RobertMBlevins has claimed to have scientifically measured Kenny (without sources of course) by comparing a photo of Kenny’s father (who is 5’ 11”, even though RobertMBlevins could not ID Kenny’s father in a photo from WWI) where Kenny towers over his old man, making Kenny at least 6’ tall. Of course this photographic analysis remains hidden from scrutiny for reasons unknown, but the 99s did a comparison of Kenny’s height to a door hinge and arrived at 5’ 8” to 5’ 10” with sources.

Once again, if Kenny is 5’8” or 6’3” makes no difference because all are claimed and witnesses are unreliable about height but very good at identifying cigarette brands by coupons. Yeah, I’ll buy a little of that action...'

I don't remember using Kenny's father's pictures to compare height to Christiansen himself. By 'the 99's' I'll assume you mean the female pilot organization did a measurement based on pictures? Hard to figure you out sometimes. The one time we tried to do a measurement ourselves was by going to the apartment in Sumner, WA where Kenny lived at the time of the hijacking, and trying to use the famous Christmas picture as a comparison. Results were inconclusive. Kenny was probably five-eight to five-nine in his stocking feet.

The REAL information regarding the height of the hijacker...the only legit source...is the testimony of the actual witnesses to Cooper. Here's some of what they said, according to Geoff Gray:

The stews agreed on the age: Mid-forties. Tina said Cooper's height was five ten to six feet. Flo Schaffner said no shorter than six feet. Flo also says his hair was black, while Tina said brown. All three stews selected different profiles from the FBI's Facial Identification Catalog. Flo went with KK5-1, Alice Hancock with KA3-9. Both went with different combinations on the other factors, such as eyebrows, cheek and cheekbones, and mouth.

And what about the other witnesses? Not exactly on the same page, either:

George Labissioniere, a lawyer, got a good look at Cooper because of Cooper's trips to the bathroom. No older than 35, he said.

Cord Spreckel said the hijacker had a square jaw, while Bill Mitchell, the college guy, said the chin sagged. Spreckle says the hijacker was about fifty.

Robert Gregory thought perhaps Cooper's hair was 'marcelled,' created by hot irons. Gregory, who owned a paint company and prided himself on an attention to detail, says the suit was not brown or black, but a russet color. He thought the hair may have been dyed. How tall? Gregory pegged the hijacker at no more than five foot nine.

It's plain that there were conflicting reports on the hijacker's description.

On the matter of Helen Jones saying that Kenny smoked Raleigh cigarettes, she was sure on this point. In her original interview, she named Camels as Kenny's brand (she is a former smoker) but later realized she had named her own brand. She then drove up to find me in Bonney Lake to correct her mistake. Jones really liked Kenny, and almost tossed me out the door initially for even hinting that Kenny might have been Cooper. One of the last things she told me was this:

'How could he (Kenny) have done such a thing...' (hijacked 305)

I didn't really have an answer for her.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Sep 29, 2012, 2:54 PM)


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Sep 29, 2012, 2:59 PM
Post #36472 of 55267 (33672 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Only Jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
well, I still have the "X" chute question......

How many jumpers here are comfortable jumping without a reserve chute?

would you do this exact jump without a reserve chute?

was Cooper that stupid by taking the chute with the "X" and not knowing? he did destroy the good one?


I have made a coupe of jumps with out a reserve, one into combat even.

I would do this jump, why not?

If he didn't open the "X" chute and didn't know it was a dummy, yeah, he be a dummy too.

@ Jo, you question has been answered, a few times now, so I will move on.

Matt


georger

Sep 29, 2012, 3:12 PM
Post #36473 of 55267 (33669 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Not over Until The Fat Lady Sings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Farflung says in part:

Quote:
'RobertMBlevins has claimed to have scientifically measured Kenny (without sources of course) by comparing a photo of Kenny’s father (who is 5’ 11”, even though RobertMBlevins could not ID Kenny’s father in a photo from WWI) where Kenny towers over his old man, making Kenny at least 6’ tall. Of course this photographic analysis remains hidden from scrutiny for reasons unknown, but the 99s did a comparison of Kenny’s height to a door hinge and arrived at 5’ 8” to 5’ 10” with sources.

Once again, if Kenny is 5’8” or 6’3” makes no difference because all are claimed and witnesses are unreliable about height but very good at identifying cigarette brands by coupons. Yeah, I’ll buy a little of that action...'

I don't remember using Kenny's father's pictures to compare height to Christiansen himself. By 'the 99's' I'll assume you mean the female pilot organization did a measurement based on pictures? Hard to figure you out sometimes. The one time we tried to do a measurement ourselves was by going to the apartment in Sumner, WA where Kenny lived at the time of the hijacking, and trying to use the famous Christmas picture as a comparison. Results were inconclusive. Kenny was probably five-eight to five-nine in his stocking feet.

The REAL information regarding the height of the hijacker...the only legit source...is the testimony of the actual witnesses to Cooper. Here's some of what they said, according to Geoff Gray:

The stews agreed on the age: Mid-forties. Tina said Cooper's height was five ten to six feet. Flo Schaffner said no shorter than six feet. Flo also says his hair was black, while Tina said brown. All three stews selected different profiles from the FBI's Facial Identification Catalog. Flo went with KK5-1, Alice Hancock with KA3-9. Both went with different combinations on the other factors, such as eyebrows, cheek and cheekbones, and mouth.

And what about the other witnesses? Not exactly on the same page, either:

George Labissioniere, a lawyer, got a good look at Cooper because of Cooper's trips to the bathroom. No older than 35, he said.

Cord Spreckel said the hijacker had a square jaw, while Bill Mitchell, the college guy, said the chin sagged. Spreckle says the hijacker was about fifty.

Robert Gregory thought perhaps Cooper's hair was 'marcelled,' created by hot irons. Gregory, who owned a paint company and prided himself on an attention to detail, says the suit was not brown or black, but a russet color. He thought the hair may have been dyed. How tall? Gregory pegged the hijacker at no more than five foot nine.

It's plain that there were conflicting reports on the hijacker's description.

On the matter of Helen Jones saying that Kenny smoked Raleigh cigarettes, she was sure on this point. In her original interview, she named Camels as Kenny's brand (she is a former smoker) but later realized she had named her own brand. She then drove up to find me in Bonney Lake to correct her mistake. Jones really liked Kenny, and almost tossed me out the door initially for even hinting that Kenny might have been Cooper. One of the last things she told me was this:

'How could he (Kenny) have done such a thing...' (hijacked 305)

I didn't really have an answer for her.

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

Calculate the height of the image of the person on
the negative (620/220/35mm etc) by multiplying the
image size on the negative by the fraction of the
print height of the person. If you dont have the
negative you do the calculation using the focal
length of the camera lens and estimating the
distance of the subject from the camera -

The ratio of the focal length of the lens to the
distance to the person equals the ratio of the image
height to the actual height.

The answer will be as accurate as the combined
errors in the measurements you put in.

http://www.giangrandi.ch/optics/lenses/focalcalc.html

http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/calc.htm

There you have it. Pretty simple for a guy with as much physics as you have -

Quade could do this!

BTW to do dimensional comparisons using the photo
alone you need to do a 'rectified' image first which
means 'angular corrections' ... then compare ratios.

For example, doorways are a standard size. This
one measures ~498 pixels at the floor whereas \
Kenny measures about 986 pixels - thats a ratio of
498/986 = 1:1.98 ... knowing the width of a
doorway you multiply that number by x1.98 which is
36x1.98 = or about 5ft 10" in shoes assuming a 36"
doorway, and using an unrectified image. You could
add about a 1-2% error just to be safe.

Move on -Shocked


(This post was edited by georger on Sep 29, 2012, 3:43 PM)
Attachments: kenny.JPG (49.8 KB)
  220px-Pinhole-camera_svg.png (13.3 KB)


mrshutter45

Sep 29, 2012, 3:47 PM
Post #36474 of 55267 (33648 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Only Jumpers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
well, I still have the "X" chute question......

How many jumpers here are comfortable jumping without a reserve chute?

would you do this exact jump without a reserve chute?

was Cooper that stupid by taking the chute with the "X" and not knowing? he did destroy the good one?


I have made a coupe of jumps with out a reserve, one into combat even.

I would do this jump, why not?

If he didn't open the "X" chute and didn't know it was a dummy, yeah, he be a dummy too.

@ Jo, you question has been answered, a few times now, so I will move on.

Matt

thanks Matt, I wanted to see how many people would jump without the reserve and see if it was considered stupid,nutz etc etc to jump without it.

the "X" chute I was wondering if he really was aware of what he had or just didn't know until later (if he made it) or found out when he pulled it Cool just seems really strange that he would destroy the good one, but if it is done in moderation I guess it doesn't matter if he took it or not....Hmmm still the question remains....

Knoss...I realize that you already went over this with Rataczak (TOG)....so butt out!


RobertMBlevins

Sep 29, 2012, 3:53 PM
Post #36475 of 55267 (33646 views)
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Re: [georger] Not over Until The Fat Lady Sings [In reply to] Can't Post

Well...

What we actually did was THIS:

1) I stood in the same doorway in approximately the same spot as the picture of Kenny. Using the viewfinder, we tried to estimate the same distance from the camera as the original Christmas picture. This wasn't difficult, because there is a divider wall between the angle of the shot and the dining area of the apartment. In other words, you can only back up so far.

2) My height is exactly five feet/ten and a half. We used a yardstick to show the point where the top of my head was in relation to the door jamb.

3) We marked this spot on the jamb (on the side) with a thin piece of blue tape.

4) We attached another piece of blue tape at the five-foot-eight mark between the floor and jamb. We took a picture.

5) We compared this picture to the Kenny picture. It appeared to us that I was slightly taller than the hijacker. We weren't really trying to be scientific. We were just curious.

So...Kenny's drivers license and his Army record are probably right. I did locate some preliminary shots we did on this, and created a completely non-scientific illustration.

NOTE: This picture is NOT from Kenny's original apartment, J-3, but from an adjoining building with a duplicate floor plan. We did measure the door sizes on both units, though, as well as the distance from the entry floor to the tops of the jambs. We also measured the distance between the centers of the light switches and the distance to both the top of the door jambs and the floor. All three parameters were identical. We couldn't use J-3 because it was occupied at that time. (They let us take measurements, but not set up inside.)

After all of that, the only thing we discovered was that I was almost certainly a bit taller than Christiansen.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Sep 29, 2012, 4:51 PM)
Attachments: Unscientificheightcomparison.gif (196 KB)


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