Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Blunt object strikes

 

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FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 28, 2012, 7:46 PM
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Blunt object strikes Can't Post

ATTN skydivers: you cannot resuscitate someone who has hit an object with high force. high speed impact+no pulse = death. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (cpr) will not help.


chutem  (A 45827)

Sep 28, 2012, 8:01 PM
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

What are your credentials or your source for this information?

James


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 28, 2012, 8:04 PM
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EMT-T /combat medic. I just think that the emotional strain on skydivers losing friends can be reduced through education.


chutem  (A 45827)

Sep 28, 2012, 8:16 PM
Post #4 of 68 (5653 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

Is this the current EMT training and procedure for dealing with blunt object strikes?

James


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 8:22 PM
Post #5 of 68 (5649 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
EMT-T /combat medic. I just think that the emotional strain on skydivers losing friends can be reduced through education.

Yes, because I'm sure that everyone who hit the ground at high speed did so because they assumed CPR was like the reset button on their favorite video game.Crazy

I'm not sure what the point of your "lesson" is. Is it that any trained medical professionals on the DZ, including trained first responders should just chill out when they see a serious hit? Because I'm sure that'll make everyone feel better about watching their friend bounce.Unimpressed


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 28, 2012, 8:35 PM
Post #6 of 68 (5630 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 28, 2012, 8:39 PM
Post #7 of 68 (5624 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

whatvr.


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 28, 2012, 9:06 PM
Post #8 of 68 (5600 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

my point is that experience d skydivers should not try CPR.........


mahonie10  (B License)

Sep 28, 2012, 9:33 PM
Post #9 of 68 (5574 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

You don't know for sure unless you try. I would hope someone would try everything they could to revive a fallen friend. I would at least, instead of just saying "damn dude....you dead"


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 28, 2012, 9:34 PM
Post #10 of 68 (5574 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

Or you can try the "reset button"...not recommended,


hookitt  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 9:48 PM
Post #11 of 68 (5564 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
my point is that experience d skydivers should not try CPR.........

Some experienced skydivers are doctors, EMTs, and every other type of medical related individuals. How about letting them make their own decisions.

You're a radiologist and combat medic who's a newb when it comes to skydiving. You're not the only one. Just let it go. People will Always try to resuscitate others. let em.


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 28, 2012, 9:56 PM
Post #12 of 68 (5557 views)
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I have a pup named Timothy. He is my son/;I love hm more thaqnk anything.l


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 28, 2012, 10:00 PM
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I love my son.
In reply to:


hookitt  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 10:06 PM
Post #14 of 68 (5552 views)
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In reply to:
I have a pup named Timothy. He is my son/;I love hm more thaqnk anything.l

It's a good name for a dog. My Dachshund Beagle mix dog is named Digby.


nickfrey

Sep 28, 2012, 10:21 PM
Post #15 of 68 (5545 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
ATTN skydivers: you cannot resuscitate someone who has hit an object with high force. high speed impact+no pulse = death. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (cpr) will not help.


There are many situations where CPR may be clearly futile. Often it is performed for the comfort of those in attendance and except when the body is damaged to a point where cpr is not possible or decapitation should be performed until EMS personal arrive on scene EVEN by trained off-duty personal on scene.

I would expect that the training for combat is different as continued CPR in a combat situation is a waste of resources and possibly dangerous. Every civillian first responder program I have been through (red cross first aid, CPR for professional rescuers, OEC WFR and EMT-B) teaches CPR even when clearly not effective should be performed. Except when there are others that could be helped, such as in a triage situation.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 29, 2012, 3:50 AM
Post #16 of 68 (5477 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that would depend on how you define “blunt object strike”. Impact with the ground is not usually “blunt object”. For mechanism of injury you would be looking at speed of impact, angle of impact and first point of contact. You concern would be with deceleration injuries. These injuries could include a blow out of the aortic arch or tamponade. While these will more than likely prove fatal you have no way of determining if they are present in the field.

In most cases any blanket statement is probably wrong.

Sparky


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 29, 2012, 4:18 AM
Post #17 of 68 (5470 views)
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In reply to:
my point is that experience d skydivers should not try CPR.........

Would performing CPR on a dead guy do any harm?


If not then what the hell, take a shot.


madasamonkey

Sep 29, 2012, 5:08 AM
Post #18 of 68 (5431 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not an experienced skydiver. I haven't even done my AFF yet. I have been a first aider for 15 years.

If there is anything at all you can do to give them a chance, even an infinitesimal one, you just get on and do it. You don't just do it for them. You do it for everyone around and, most of all, for yourself.

I would rather beat myself up for trying and failing than just standing there like a div.

I do believe that people who engage in extreme sports should undertake basic first aid training. You have to in scuba, if you want to progress. It should be an integral part of training. It's straightfoward, cheap, but it can make all the difference. Fingers crossed, you take the course and never have to use it. That's a hell of a lot better than needing to use it and never having taken the course.


(This post was edited by madasamonkey on Sep 29, 2012, 5:23 AM)


Anvilbrother  (C License)

Sep 29, 2012, 5:39 AM
Post #19 of 68 (5412 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

This post should be deleted, it started off full of lies, and continued with garbage. You can perform CPR on a trauma code I personally have been on 2 scenes with saves that I know of.
One was a motorcycle accident where the person rear ended a stopped truck, and was found under the vehicle, you could not even tell he still had a face, every time we bagged him blood sputtered every where.
The other was a 30 foot fall to concrete on his head, upon intubation his pallet had been broken and there was dura matter inside his mouth. It can be successfully done, so if I'm in that position please don't listen to this guy until the er doc says stop!


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Sep 29, 2012, 6:45 AM
Post #20 of 68 (5384 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

So I'm not sure if you've been on the DZ during an incident before. I have been on several different ones for deaths or serious injuries that required immediate medical attention and ground or air ambulance trips. Every single time there have happened to be multiple trained first responders there. Medics, EMTs, military PAs, ER docs, ER nurses/NPs, etc. You get the picture. All of them bring much more to the situation than me or most of the rest of the people on the dropzone. And in every case I've seen, the untrained folks do one of two things. Stay out of the way, or provide other help -calling 911, getting gear out of the way, fetching medical kits for the trained folks, holding a canopy up for shade, etc. You seem to have a misconception that incident scenes are just random folks performing CPR on dead bodies.

Frankly, your harping on this point here and in Donny's incident thread just shows you're kind of obsessing on the wrong thing, and insulting both the medical credentials and the humanity of those who decided that trying to save their friend was the right thing to do in a single casualty situation.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Sep 29, 2012, 6:52 AM
Post #21 of 68 (5387 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
EMT-T /combat medic. I just think that the emotional strain on skydivers losing friends can be reduced through education.

You have a good emergency medical background. Put it to good use not bad...


DougH  (D License)

Sep 29, 2012, 8:14 AM
Post #22 of 68 (5354 views)
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Re: [Anvilbrother] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This post should be deleted, it started off full of lies, and continued with garbage. You can perform CPR on a trauma code I personally have been on 2 scenes with saves that I know of.
One was a motorcycle accident where the person rear ended a stopped truck, and was found under the vehicle, you could not even tell he still had a face, every time we bagged him blood sputtered every where.
The other was a 30 foot fall to concrete on his head, upon intubation his pallet had been broken and there was dura matter inside his mouth. It can be successfully done, so if I'm in that position please don't listen to this guy until the er doc says stop!

Not to be a prick, but did either of those individuals return to a functioning life?


DocPop  (C License)

Sep 29, 2012, 8:15 AM
Post #23 of 68 (5354 views)
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Re: [FlyingPortagee] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
ATTN skydivers: you cannot resuscitate someone who has hit an object with high force. high speed impact+no pulse = death. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (cpr) will not help.

I sincerely hope you are not saying "don't bother trying to save them".

Which is worse?

- Trying to save someone who is not saveable because you read something on the internet
- Not trying to save someone who is because you make the judgement that they are dead.

My view: always keep trying until the coroner pushes you out of the way.


Anvilbrother  (C License)

Sep 29, 2012, 8:21 AM
Post #24 of 68 (5349 views)
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Re: [DougH] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

I did not get further info from one of the patients because he did not live here, but the other did recover with a loss of some function in one arm.

Regardless, who are you or I to be the judge of letting a person die or
Not just based off of the fact that their life might not be as good as it was, or they may be a burdon on someone else.


DougH  (D License)

Sep 29, 2012, 8:51 AM
Post #25 of 68 (5336 views)
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Re: [Anvilbrother] Blunt object strikes [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Regardless, who are you or I to be the judge of letting a person die or
Not just based off of the fact that their life might not be as good as it was, or they may be a burdon on someone else.

I didn't judge or imply that, I asked a question, and you are reading to much in to it.


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