Forums: Archive: 2013-2015 USPA BOD Elections:
Rich Winstock National Director

 


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Sep 26, 2012, 9:44 PM
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Rich Winstock National Director Can't Post

 
Hello Skydiving Friends,

Please take a moment and click
http://youtu.be/9N9Hz7z9hY8

It has been a pleasure serving as National Director for the past two years. I had the opportunity to visit dropzones across the country and personally meet skydivers, DZO’s, and Instructors from all walks of life. I have listened to concerns about the direction USPA is heading, and given my best to represent your views.

It has also been a pleasure embracing the online community. It is here I forged many new friendships and met the most amazing people in the sport.

During my term I took canopy education very seriously, pushing hard to implement the B license canopy proficiency card now in use throughout the world. Requiring a structured canopy course was a first step in continuing canopy education for young jumpers.

Feeling a disconnect between USPA and general members; I organized a meet and greet, for the B.O.D. and Staff, prior to each board meeting. My goal was to support local dropzones, speak and jump with members, and represent USPA in a positive light. Wouldn't it be great if we earned your respect through our actions as opposed to never having it due to inaction. Please stop by my Facebook page to see pictures and video. http://www.facebook.com/...607674497&type=3

I plan on taking canopy education to the next level by introducing more canopy and ground evaluations for new AFFI’s, implementing canopy education for advanced licenses, and organizing and encouraging canopy instruction standardization meetings.

I do not support a USPA demonstration team. I feel USPA should never put itself in a position to compete against its own members.

I support a standardized wingsuit instructor rating. I spent hundreds of hours reading emails, reading questionnaires, and talking on the phone. Upwards of 80% of USPA members support this initiative. I feel this will legitimize wingsuiting within our sport and allow it to thrive in a safe and responsible fashion.

I made my first jump in September of 1992 and since have accumulated 11,200 jumps. I am a current AFF I/E, Tandem I/E, and Coach Examiner. I am Professional Rated and a Safety and Training Advisor.

One important note, if you decide to support me: I am a current working AFF Instructor, Tandem Instructor, and videographer, I am on the front lines of this sport. My finger is on the pulse, so I can make an educated decision in the best interest of you the skydiver. I am not a DZO nor do I represent any one particular manufacturer.

Please feel free to visit me on Facebook, follow me on Twitter, or stop by my website http://www.richwinstock.com Also, take a moment and jump into the forums, we would love to hear from you.

On November 1st you will receive a blast email and link from USPA. I urge you click on the link and vote electronically. One click can make a difference. I ask you to support me in my run for National Director for the next three year term. In return I promise to be available to listen and represent your views.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Blue Skys,
Rich Winstock
USPA National Director


(This post was edited by Para5-0 on Sep 26, 2012, 9:55 PM)


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 26, 2012, 10:25 PM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Rich winstock for USPA national director. Now there is a guy I can vote for, again!

Mr. Winstock is a man of his word, he has shown via his actions, posts, votes and in his general concern to connect and make a difference for the members. I have spoken with Mr. Winstock on a number of issues of concern to me as a member, each and every time I contacted him, he replied in a timely manner and even if we didn't agree on the topic, he took my issue before the board. Not only that, he even made additional contacts to make sure the issues I asked him to address where handled as I would have liked or to simply remind me to make my voice heard to other sitting members.

Mr. Winstock is a much needed breath of fresh air in a stinky, stale room full of lifers who have needed to step aside for some time now. Thankfully this election we have a chance to fill the ranks with new leadership. We as members need to choose wisely in who we elect to lead us into the future.

Mr. Winstock has EARNED my vote and I hope many of you would agree and help this man keep his seat on the BOD, we need more people like Rich Winstock!

Please take the time to vote! (you lazy bastards, it's now online)


(This post was edited by stratostar on Sep 26, 2012, 10:27 PM)


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Sep 27, 2012, 7:16 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

+2

Matt


normiss  (D 28356)

Sep 27, 2012, 7:34 AM
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Re: [matthewcline] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

+4

Cool


Rich most certainly has my vote as well.
Smile


jimjumper  (D 11137)

Sep 27, 2012, 9:51 AM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Got my vote! I don't expect Board members to agree with me everytime but Rich is accessible and has always taken the time to be open to discussion. It's rare that a BOD member actually attempts to represent the average jumper and I appreciate his efforts to do so.


Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Sep 27, 2012, 10:48 AM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Rich gets my vote. He is balanced between being progressive and conservative, is far from being a "yes man," and has no bias from other 3rd party loyalty or attachment. He is also an extremely active skydiver which provides a contemporary viewpoint on the board.

I have attended many BOD meetings and have not only seen Rich in action, but have gotten to know him and have tried to support some of his efforts from behind the scenes.

He has brought the BOD environment successfully to these forums, and has been quite interactive in that regard, which continues during this election.

Rich is good for the USPA membership.


floormonkey  (D License)

Sep 27, 2012, 2:35 PM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote:
I support a standardized wingsuit instructor rating. I spent hundreds of hours reading emails, reading questionnaires, and talking on the phone. Upwards of 80% of USPA members support this initiative. I feel this will legitimize wingsuiting within our sport and allow it to thrive in a safe and responsible fashion.


Where does this number come from? I don't remember seeing a survey, nor does anyone who I have asked.

What was the question asked?

thanks


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Sep 27, 2012, 2:42 PM
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Re: [floormonkey] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

USPA e-mailed a survey to membership, and had links on their web page and Facebook page.

In the wingsuit forum there was a spirited conversation i do believe.

Matt


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Sep 27, 2012, 2:43 PM
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Re: [matthewcline] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
spirited conversation

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughAngelic


floormonkey  (D License)

Sep 27, 2012, 3:28 PM
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Re: [NWFlyer] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps it should be reworded to "80% of respondents to a USPA conducted poll support the "....whatever it is.

I seriously doubt 80% of the USPA active membership has even considered the idea, much less endorsed it.

What percentage of active USPA members responded to that poll?

Also, I believe it is a relatively small percentage of jumpers who visit this site, and even fewer visit the wingsuit forums. That forum is often like preschool kids arguing over which crayon they get to use.


(This post was edited by floormonkey on Sep 27, 2012, 3:30 PM)


MakeItHappen

Sep 27, 2012, 7:18 PM
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Re: [floormonkey] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Quote:
I support a standardized wingsuit instructor rating. I spent hundreds of hours reading emails, reading questionnaires, and talking on the phone. Upwards of 80% of USPA members support this initiative. I feel this will legitimize wingsuiting within our sport and allow it to thrive in a safe and responsible fashion.


Where does this number come from? I don't remember seeing a survey, nor does anyone who I have asked.

What was the question asked?

thanks

The survey was sent to the 'players' in the WS community, not all USPA members. I don't recall at the moment how many people that was, but it was in the 100-200 range.

A non-binding referendum question on this year's ballot asks USPA members to state their preference about whether USPA should adopt a WSI program.

To my knowledge, no one is against the material (written by DSE) but there are people that do not want USPA to implement the program.

FMI
see http://uspa.org/wsidraft.pdf

.


(This post was edited by MakeItHappen on Sep 27, 2012, 7:23 PM)
Attachments: usparef.jpg (54.3 KB)


FreeFallFiend

Sep 28, 2012, 11:18 AM
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Re: [MakeItHappen] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Could someone tell me approximately how many jumpers in the US meet the qualifications of Section E subsection 1 of the previously referenced proposal?


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 4:23 PM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not support a USPA demonstration team. I feel USPA should never put itself in a position to compete against its own members.

I support a standardized wingsuit instructor rating.

In reply to:

I've spoken to Rich regarding both subjects and was extremely impressed at how available he makes himself and is open to discussion.

Rich is one of the precious few at HQ that routinely uses this popular website at a tool for communication with the membership.

You can't get a much better idea of what a group is thinking than to stand with 'em in a crowd and listen...

I've always wondered why many on the BOD are reluctant to do so.
Rich has on several occasions in the past reached out to the USPA membership through threads here to better understand our opinions and our reasoning.

He keeps an active website laying out his views ~ encouraging interaction & discussion of opinions.
http://www.richwinstock.com/phpbb3/

He's also worked to set up 'meet, greet & jump' rendezvous to coincide with BOD meetings at various points around the country.

He's represented himself and the organization with class, candor and intelligence in the national media.

I trust his judgement and look forward to his leadership addressing what lies ahead for our sport, and our organization.


kallend  (D 23151)

Sep 29, 2012, 7:15 AM
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Re: [MakeItHappen] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Quote:
I support a standardized wingsuit instructor rating. I spent hundreds of hours reading emails, reading questionnaires, and talking on the phone. Upwards of 80% of USPA members support this initiative. I feel this will legitimize wingsuiting within our sport and allow it to thrive in a safe and responsible fashion.


Where does this number come from? I don't remember seeing a survey, nor does anyone who I have asked.

What was the question asked?

thanks

The survey was sent to the 'players' in the WS community, not all USPA members. I don't recall at the moment how many people that was, but it was in the 100-200 range.

.

I didn't get one, and I have been on all the official US record WS jumps and the recent 100-way. Maybe my known opposition to the USPA rating for WS instructors played a part in my exclusion.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Sep 29, 2012, 11:32 PM
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Re: [kallend] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Quote:
I support a standardized wingsuit instructor rating. I spent hundreds of hours reading emails, reading questionnaires, and talking on the phone. Upwards of 80% of USPA members support this initiative. I feel this will legitimize wingsuiting within our sport and allow it to thrive in a safe and responsible fashion.


Where does this number come from? I don't remember seeing a survey, nor does anyone who I have asked.

What was the question asked?

thanks

The survey was sent to the 'players' in the WS community, not all USPA members. I don't recall at the moment how many people that was, but it was in the 100-200 range.

.

I didn't get one, and I have been on all the official US record WS jumps and the recent 100-way. Maybe my known opposition to the USPA rating for WS instructors played a part in my exclusion.

https://www.facebook.com/...215998952776?fref=ts

It was publicly posted on several personal FB pages on which you are a "friend."
It was posted in FB "Wingsuit friends" of which you are a member.
It was published in the public FB page Wingsuit World.
It was posted on FB as a separate page, to which you were invited.
It was posted publicly on Dropzone.com, which you frequent several times a day.
It was linked on several FB pages, and you're as active on FB as you are here on DZ.com
It was published in several blogs, at least one of which would be difficult to believe you didn't read.
It was not a private request for feedback; feedback was requested via Twitter, Facebook, Dropzone.com
In other words, short of knocking on your door or calling mobile phones, the Wingsuit SubCommittee did everything they could to reach out for feedback.


jimjumper  (D 11137)

Sep 30, 2012, 6:22 AM
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Re: [DSE] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

I would have thought Parachutist would have been first on that list. After all isn't it still our foremost informational forum? I don't wingsuit but if your going to use Facebook for surveys, e-mails, etc. I guess I'll just be out of the loop as it appears a lot of people are!


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 30, 2012, 6:53 AM
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Re: [jimjumper] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I would have thought Parachutist would have been first on that list.

No not really Jim, in today's world I can reach more people and have something going viral with in a few hours, spreading it fast in circles of social media and reaching a vast number of people.

Where as with parachutist, I have to draft my shit to their format and then submit it, they will change shit around as they see fit to edit it, you know for space reasons.... and then we have to wait for it to print and then get shipped out and then hope people (members) will take the time to read it, then give enough of a shit to care about the topic and then submit the requested feedback. All of that bullshit can and will take weeks!

And as past history proves, memberships lack of partaking in the elections or the recent request for the industry to make comments on major new standards being pushed by the FAA that will shut down dz's and cost the industry a lot of $$$$.

And just like elections, no one really made an effort to full fill the request by USPA, on a pretty majorly important issue that threatens our sports future, unlike something minor as WS rating.

So if I was going to try to reach a target market, wingsuit community, I would do as DSE has done and in a matter of hours flood my target market, while skipping the untarget market so that the message has time to reach the masses of my targeted market.

By doing so it keeps the issue unclouded of non WS users rants and ill informed statements. Then once I had the issue before the target community a few days, it will reach the rest of the community in outlets like dz.com. This would help in mass education in a fast way while keeping focused on the subject matter as much as possible.

For example, and a really good one at that is Rich Winstock's use of these forums and social media, along with additional media tools, is reaching membership is a whole new way and he is accessible to all. Unlike others who currently running for seats but use these same tech -geek tactics to spread their election messages in a controlled format and hide from the general population. So in other words, they target those who are shoe in votes like those who jump at their dz and took course to get ratings from them. And you have to request from them to join some social media groups, this keeps control on who says what and selectively fielding questions. So we see these those kind of games all the time in social media and it's taking place in this up coming USPA election and the national elections too..... that is how it works.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Sep 30, 2012, 7:12 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 1, 2012, 8:35 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

There are a few board members that routinely post on this site and a at least a couple more that lurk but don't participate in the discussions because they (probably rightfully so) believe they will just get bogged down by the inflammatory pissin' matches which often result regarding 'hot topics'.

I've been called and emailed more than just a few times by certain BOD members following a thread I'd posted an opinion to...giving me their insight & further information.

So maybe in 'some cases' it's we who are to blame for the less than friendly reception given, shying them away.

OTOH...there are also those 'good ole boy-old schoolers' who look upon this site and others with disdain, referring to 'Internet skydivers' in derogatory fashion.

That's unfortunate because they are ignoring a really useful tool in communicating with the membership.
Certainly not all USPA members frequent dizzydot & facebook, but those that do are worth addressing and IMO there's no easier way to accessing the newer USPA members looking for information.

Ever look at the USPA 'blogs' for current discussion on relative topics? Laugh

I honestly think that if the USPA as a whole would take the pro active attitude that Rich, Peek, Jan and some others do...and GO TO the places there are large numbers of members gathering, instead of being content to wait for a few hundred WTF emails to hit the home office ~ a lot of time would be saved and negative perceptions avoided.

It's been said that ~ Those who hide from their constituents HAVE something to hide.'

Maybe - maybe not, I will say though it's nice having leaders who make themselves available, who openly & willingly discuss issues of interest.

It's important we as the general membership recognize those who do, and thank them with both words and actions...VOTE!


normiss  (D 28356)

Oct 1, 2012, 9:15 AM
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Re: [jimjumper] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally, I flip through Parachutist on the crapper.
I typically finish the magazine first.
Tongue

I don't personally care for the magazine. It provides nothing to me.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Oct 1, 2012, 9:51 AM
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Re: [DSE] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow,

I just got home and had to catch up a bit. Sorry about that. I was really hoping that this thread didnt turn into a wingsuit standardization bashing forum but I should have known better. TO those who gave generous comments thank you very much, I appreciate the support. I hope to re-enforce your comments through action.

To give a bit further explanation to who the questionnaire went out to:
1) Every DZO, STA, I/E (email from USPA and letter from myself)

2) A list of top advisors that was compiled from initially Taya Weiss and DSE and then each advisor was asked to forward it to anyone they thought could assist us and add anyone who may have been missed. This was a letter to all advisors from me personally. In the end I had approximately 30 people from both sides of the fence. I have every email from every advisor to include the initial ones where certain wingsuitters were recommended.

3) Here on DZ.com read the very first post under the thread in Winsguit. I explain it in detail and what we were trying to do.

I have become the poster child for WS standardization and maybe a bit deserved or undeserved. In speaking with members, reading emails, pm's, questionnaire's 80 % of all who I dealt with are in favor of this. I am just representing them. What people do not understand a BOD member is supposed to represent the MAJORITY of the members. Remember that "we represent you" So of course if a topic comes up that divides us I wll not be popular but if I am not willing to stand then I shouldnt be in my position.

Some might not know but when I was first approached with the idea, I was not very familiar with the program or the community for that matter. I traveled to Elsinore on my own dime and sat down with DSE and had him show me the entire program as it is in operation at Elsinore. I felt this was a good way to educate myself as to what was being presented. This was the very first time I met DSE and it turned out to be probably the most beneficial thing I did in reference to this topic.


This is just one topic, albeit a major one as of lately, there is so much more we need to do. If everyone wants to argue about the wingsuit standardization then go to the wingsuit threads all 10 of them and let lose. I took a step back for a bit to see how the whole membership feels.

You see I was critisized for not reaching out to enough people, or the wrong people, or the questions were bias, or I was bias, or the punctuation I used was bias. So I took the advice given right here on DZ.com. By the way the social media that was critisized at the BOD meeting for being a small representation of a large group. I took the advice and pushed hard for an opinion poll to go to every single member of USPA through our electronic ballot system and in paper ballot. It was passed and you will receive an opportunity to weigh in on the ballot.

Now whether or not you agree with the program or not is not the issue. The issue is did I do everything I possibly could to represent the members Nationally? If I was willing to go to these lengths to include time, money, effort, then hopefully that is representative of what kind of Director I am. If you jusge me based on not agreeing with the topic understand I am representing the majority.

Just a bit of clarification: as if that wasnt enough, I was then critisized on the question, what content to include, exclude.
Let the members speak through the opinion poll and then we will re-evaluate. What more any one person can do I am not sure.

On Nov 1st you will be given the opportunity to select a new BOD. If the above is representative of how you think a National Director should handle a topic, any topic, then I submit dont judge me on the topic judge me on the representation and the means I went to include everyone on it.

Thanks,
Rich Winstock
USPA National Director


(This post was edited by Para5-0 on Oct 1, 2012, 9:53 AM)


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 3, 2012, 7:58 AM
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Re: [DSE] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Quote:
I support a standardized wingsuit instructor rating. I spent hundreds of hours reading emails, reading questionnaires, and talking on the phone. Upwards of 80% of USPA members support this initiative. I feel this will legitimize wingsuiting within our sport and allow it to thrive in a safe and responsible fashion.


Where does this number come from? I don't remember seeing a survey, nor does anyone who I have asked.

What was the question asked?

thanks

The survey was sent to the 'players' in the WS community, not all USPA members. I don't recall at the moment how many people that was, but it was in the 100-200 range.

.

I didn't get one, and I have been on all the official US record WS jumps and the recent 100-way. Maybe my known opposition to the USPA rating for WS instructors played a part in my exclusion.

https://www.facebook.com/...215998952776?fref=ts

It was publicly posted on several personal FB pages on which you are a "friend."
It was posted in FB "Wingsuit friends" of which you are a member.
It was published in the public FB page Wingsuit World.
It was posted on FB as a separate page, to which you were invited.
It was posted publicly on Dropzone.com, which you frequent several times a day.
It was linked on several FB pages, and you're as active on FB as you are here on DZ.com
It was published in several blogs, at least one of which would be difficult to believe you didn't read.
It was not a private request for feedback; feedback was requested via Twitter, Facebook, Dropzone.com
In other words, short of knocking on your door or calling mobile phones, the Wingsuit SubCommittee did everything they could to reach out for feedback.

Let me repeat what was written, since you appear to have missed it:

"The survey was sent to the 'players' in the WS community..."

Emphasis mine.


(This post was edited by kallend on Oct 3, 2012, 8:02 AM)


lurch  (D 27583)

Oct 5, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Re: [kallend] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Doc, it -was- sent to the players in the community. The ones actually active in instruction, or the ones actively involved in the promotion growth and development in the sport. The ones who eat sleep and breathe wingsuit flying.

Not to be offensive in any way, but you are a university professor are you not? Your main line of work in life is academic, you've probably got more hours in a classroom than I've got hours, and wingsuits would be a recreation, a sideshow in your life, not the main thing you do.

The point is, the survey was sent to people whose involvement in the sport is total.

I -do- eat sleep and breathe wingsuit flying. I have spent the last nine years straight dedicated exclusively to mastering the art and I have found enough unexplored depth remaining to keep me busy for a lifetime. If I recited my qualifications by experience here it would take up half the page.

I -did- get one of the surveys. I was somewhat surprised since I really do not weigh in on political matters. I almost didn't respond to the survey at all till the last minute. I have avoided all of the sport's internal politics like the Plague. I wanted to stay out of the entire affair and just focus on flying, but with the insurance companies coming after us, refusal to get involved means I could wake up one day and find the sky closed and locked to me (unless I take off my wings and restrict myself to straight down freefalling like everyone else) and THAT, is not an option.

Either we take command of our sport, or -they- will.

A long time ago I went and got a coach rating. Never even used it for its intended purpose-teaching new jumpers- but it was the closest thing to a "real" teaching credential that I could get. I wanted a "real, legitimate" qualification beyond the stew of made-up systems and rudimentary manufacturer ratings we have now. I went and got a PFI rating at FnD 2.0... I was PFI#62 if I remember right, and proud of it. But thats as obsolete as a Classic 1, and about as useful in the context of today's suits. I took Rob Laidlaw's Skydive University course because I wanted to -really- learn how to teach and apply it to wingsuit instruction, and there is no mechanism to teach wingsuit instructors yet. Cut-n-paste between disciplines was the best I could do.

I let it expire because it fundamentally made no sense to have to do many freefall students every year just to keep a rating, when the coach rating itself has nothing to do with wingsuit instruction beyond demonstrating ability to teach in a skydiving context. The material is different. The students are different. A coach rating indicates ability to teach wingsuit flying the same way a motorcycle license indicates ability to drive a semitrailer- it doesn't.

Throughout the wingsuit community "you should have a coach rating" is often heard. On the face of it, its understandable, a completely unqualified teacher is a disaster waiting to happen, but again, it makes zero sense for me to have to maintain currency and expertise in wingless skydiving to be "allowed" to teach winged skydiving. A coach rating evaluates -nothing- of my knowledge and ability with a wingsuit. It will not show whether I teach tail avoidance, or gear assembly, or navigation. I could be the worst and most careless, useless wingsuit instructor alive but so long as I've got my Coach rating, by the "rules" we have now, technically speaking I'm "qualified" despite never demonstrating a thing about my wingsuit knowledge or ability in the process.

And so we have people out there, with coach ratings, calling themselves wingsuit instructors, who couldn't fly their way out of a wet paper bag or keep up with a tumbling student to save their lives- or prevent that tumbling student in the first place, which is our REAL job.

For the first time, we have a prospect of having an actual, wingsuit-specific qualification. Not something partial or made up to support the selling of suits. Official legitimacy and authenticity at last. An objective standard.

There are many of us, myself included, who would have sought out that wingsuit rating from the start had it ever existed. Now, we have the opportunity to MAKE it.

I don't particularly like creation of rules. Half of what drew me so strongly to wingsuit flying was the fact that I was exploring territory so new to human experience that there WERE no rules to govern it. If you made it in skydiving as far as flying wingsuits, once you stepped over that line you were on your own. I had to learn what the rules were myself, and I was keenly aware the whole time that failure to do so, thoroughly, might easily result in sudden surprise death by ignorance.

It made me take it very seriously, made me a fanatic about understanding it.

People aren't doing that anymore. We've made it look too easy and accessible and now that "everybody's doing it" we have mass numbers of pilots who take up the art and take it no more seriously than riding a bicycle. We have people calling themselves "instructors" with well under 500 jumps total, a few hundred wingsuit flights max, who barely know how to catch a basic flock themselves. When I think about how little I knew at 200, 300 WS flights I have to laugh. I hadn't even scratched the surface yet.

The USPA is not creating a rating to impose on us. The USPA is responding to our community's growing need for legitimacy by asking us to help them create it.

Rich Winstock can help make that happen.

I may not even apply for the rating myself once it exists. I'm not one of the people who would stand to benefit much from its creation. It may mean I have to put up with a good deal more hassle, a fee, and some sort of paperwork just to be allowed to keep doing what I've been doing all along anyway, rating or no rating. The idea grates on my nerves.

But we get input as to how the conditions are set. A rating made by wingsuit pilots, for wingsuit pilots. If there WERE such a rating, how would you like it? Speak up!

If I have to jump through too many hoops or pay too much, or if I find the conditions unreasonable it may not be worth my while. Maybe I'd quit teaching and leave it to the guys qualified to do it. But at least then, I'd know they were qualified.

For the first time in my life, on anything, I think I'm gonna vote.
-B


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 5, 2012, 12:14 PM
Post #23 of 82 (4490 views)
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Re: [lurch] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Well stated lurch, the clearest most logically demonstrated reasoning & opinion, thus far in the discussion that I've seen.


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 10, 2012, 9:36 AM
Post #24 of 82 (4325 views)
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Re: [lurch] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not to be offensive in any way, but you are a university professor are you not? Your main line of work in life is academic, you've probably got more hours in a classroom than I've got hours, and wingsuits would be a recreation, a sideshow in your life, not the main thing you do.


-B

Brian,

Not to be offensive to you or any USPA coach, but according to the proposal that has been in circulation, your 6 or so hours devoted to pedagogy in a coach course (which you pointed out has almost nothing to do with wingsuiting) is more valuable as the teaching credential required to become a wingsuit instructor than is a certified teacher's teaching diploma plus any number of years he or she spent in a classroom.

Explain the logic of that.


Pattybeeny  (D 30938)

Oct 11, 2012, 9:03 AM
Post #25 of 82 (4273 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Rich most definitely has my vote. It's not often that a "Director" takes the time to meet with people, talk to people, work with people and actually cares about people. Having been in the sport for over a decade now - it has been a pleasure getting to know Rich Winstock. I've watch him work with skydivers from all ranks (students struggling to learn, seasoned skydivers trying to pull off various exits and dives, someone looking to downsize a canopy, etc.).

Never once did Rich ever say "not my problem" or "ask someone else". I've seen him get off of loads to help someone who asked a question or had a problem. I've seen him actually take the time to thoroughly explain things to new jumpers or seasoned jumpers when they had questions.

Rich, as he mentioned, has gone above and beyond any Director I've ever seen in the sport. I've seen him take his own personal time off to help someone advance in the sport (myself included). He's never not returned a phone call or an email to anyone with a question or concern. He's been a go-to resource for so many in the sport and has always helped in any way that he can.

I can say that in all of my years of jumping - in the early years, I never had anyone who cared enough to spend any time teaching me the ropes. It was as if once off of AFF/AFP I was on my own. I made many mistakes, ventured to various drop zones and just did my own thing. No one even noticed. It took one person one day to say "hey you, what are you flying? Let's talk about what we can do to improve you here"....and that was all it took. Rich transformed me from a person who "fell" in the sky for several years - to someone who can now fly and now even teach. Rich helped mentor me and always kept an eye out for myself and all of the jumpers -- even when under canopy his hawk eyes are watching everyone. He truly "cares" about the sport and the people in it.

He definitely has my vote. Not sure how safe the skies would be without people like Rich Winstock advocating for jumpers. It is not an easy position to be in - to be the middle man in situations where not everyone agrees - but I do think Rich is an amazing National Director and has done an amazing job this past term. I'm hoping he gets voted again as I think the sport needs caring people like Rich - someone who is not only representing the people in it - but someone who makes themselves available and truly does fight for the majority. He listens, A LOT, and he does go to bat and fights for what the majority vote wants. That is someone we truly need in this sport.

VOTE FOR WINNIE!!Smile


RevvyAiny  (B 37576)

Oct 11, 2012, 11:10 AM
Post #26 of 82 (1306 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a rookie skydiver. Might not be a skydiver at all if it weren't for the time Rich has taken to provide instruction and insight and support. For all the reasons already expressed by those who know him much better than I, Rich Winstock has my vote.


HawkDriver108  (A License)

Oct 11, 2012, 11:33 AM
Post #27 of 82 (1299 views)
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Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Rich has my vote!


Skwrl  (C 36419)

Oct 12, 2012, 9:47 AM
Post #28 of 82 (1259 views)
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Re: [lurch] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The point is, the survey was sent to people whose involvement in the sport is total.

Ummm, well, I dunno about that.

I received a survey, and (as you know), I have a (non-skydiving) day job. I don't even instruct with respect to wingsuiting or any other skydiving activity. I take pictures of wingsuiters.


flyboy6554  (D 12846)

Oct 12, 2012, 7:26 PM
Post #29 of 82 (1220 views)
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Post deleted by flyboy6554 [In reply to]

 


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 12, 2012, 7:41 PM
Post #30 of 82 (1219 views)
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Re: [flyboy6554] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Please take a moment and click

What?

Matt


stratostar  (Student)

Oct 12, 2012, 7:57 PM
Post #31 of 82 (1218 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

The link... (in Rich's post top page) Tongue

http://youtu.be/9N9Hz7z9hY8


(This post was edited by stratostar on Oct 12, 2012, 7:58 PM)


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 12, 2012, 8:15 PM
Post #32 of 82 (1210 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The link... (in Rich's post top page) Tongue

http://youtu.be/9N9Hz7z9hY8

Oh well, he cooda done did what you just done did!Wink

Matt


stratostar  (Student)

Oct 12, 2012, 8:24 PM
Post #33 of 82 (1208 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

it's a learning curve thing....Wink

Just let me add this too....

Hey Rich, thanks for returning my call & email today in such a timely manner and on a Friday too at that. Major thanks for your guidance on my issue of concern, that was very helpful! Smile


(This post was edited by stratostar on Oct 12, 2012, 8:26 PM)


Pattybeeny  (D 30938)

Oct 15, 2012, 1:27 PM
Post #34 of 82 (1168 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Had an opportunity to speak with many jumpers this past weekend at my "old" drop zone from several years ago - your name came up Rich. It's amazing how many people you have helped over the years how many people respect you and value your opinion. No one had a bad thing to say about you and all verified that you ALWAYS made yourself available and accessible. That is definitely someone who puts the "jumpers" first and definitely someone we need on the board.....kudos - and you definitely have my vote!


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Oct 18, 2012, 10:52 AM
Post #35 of 82 (1121 views)
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Re: [Pattybeeny] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello All,

I just wanted to say thank you for the kind words and the support. The first wave of ballots are on the way. It is important we vote, so bother your skydiving friends and let them know it does matter.

I want to wish everyone good luck and say, all candidates bring one similarity to the table; their commitment and love of skydiving.

Take a moment and read everyones biography, maybe even take the next step and contact them or stop by their website.

http://www.richwinstock.com

Regards,
Rich Winstock
USPA National Director


(This post was edited by Para5-0 on Oct 18, 2012, 11:00 AM)


lurch  (D 27583)

Oct 18, 2012, 10:54 AM
Post #36 of 82 (1120 views)
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Re: [Skwrl] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

No, but come on, man, -I'd- call your involvement in the sport total, myself... you may not instruct, but you were the brains and the action behind getting our local instruction scene going again this year. I wasn't inclined to try again, if not for you and your initiative there'd BE no Northeast Bird School.

And I hold a day job, too, doesn't mean much, most serious birds I know still do.

Frankly I'm still not thrilled about my own perception of the necessity of a rating. I argued against it for quite some time and still have many reservations. I've already talked to Rich myself about some of the proposed conditions- in particular the minimum WSI/E FFC numbers initially proposed make becoming a WSI/E virtually impossible for all birds except those very few who might be able to rack up a couple hundred FFCs inside of a decade, plus theres some things I'd like to see more thoroughly defined such as what exactly constitutes a wingsuit instructional jump because taken literally with just FFCs qualifying as instruction, our school'd be wiped out in one season. We didn't exactly get a whole lot of new birds this year, most of my instructional work was advanced coaching.

I think maybe Andreea did enough FFCs to maintain currency under the proposed set of rules, but I'm pretty sure Rick and I did not, despite having spent much of this season doing advanced coaching. Rich Winstock tells me this sort of teaching does and will qualify toward currency, but I'd like to see it laid out and defined specifically. What we're doing is different than other forms of instruction and requires different rules. I think if there is to be a rating it'll need a bit of tweaking before its ready for prime time, but the people pushing the rating are open to input and revision, and rather than attacking the rating effort I think we ought to speak up and say how it ought to be defined. If there is to be one, well, its -OUR- rating, lets be the ones who actually create it. Nobody is proposing to suddenly impose it on us, so far as I know there's no deadline, no "ready or not this is how its gonna be from now on"... Last I heard, the rating effort is still actively soliciting input and suggestions from the community. Nothing is set in stone yet, so well-informed birds can speak up and make a real difference.

I started off against it, but I figured I'd be better off participating instead of attacking.

I still don't like it. But I can't ignore the fact that people are no longer bringing the kind of self-chosen meticulous care in educating ourselves that we used to take for granted. The fact is, the gear has changed and the picture has changed with it and at the same time, we get a swarm of new skygods who want to fly an X3 inside their first 100 flights with little to no clue what the suit can do with them if they're careless, and what I'm seeing is a perfect storm of impending disaster with absolutely no mechanism in place to arrest it or even affect it at all besides peer pressure. If I'd been a little more aware of the potential myself, Steve might still be alive. It causes me to really think twice about whats has to be done, what ought to be done, and why.

-B


Douggarr  (D 2791)

Oct 18, 2012, 12:34 PM
Post #37 of 82 (1101 views)
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Re: [Pattybeeny] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

I second Patty's emotion. Have been talking up Winnie for re-election for weeks now. So if you want a voice for safe skydiving and progressive training, fun jumping, etc., he's your man.


Ron

Oct 19, 2012, 11:35 AM
Post #38 of 82 (1057 views)
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Re: [lurch] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Doc, it -was- sent to the players in the community. The ones actually active in instruction, or the ones actively involved in the promotion growth and development in the sport.

Ah yes, the ones that would profit from it.

Rich, you lost my vote over this. Shame, you had me till this.

Not that I think the USPA actually gives a shit what the average member wants.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 20, 2012, 8:43 AM
Post #39 of 82 (1026 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Doc, it -was- sent to the players in the community. The ones actually active in instruction, or the ones actively involved in the promotion growth and development in the sport.

Ah yes, the ones that would profit from it.

Rich, you lost my vote over this. Shame, you had me till this.

Not that I think the USPA actually gives a shit what the average member wants.

They won't profit any more than they currently do, they would now just happen to have a standardized endorsement, if the program is adopted.

Your distaste for good safety measures and reasonable progress shouldn't lose Rich a well earned vote, makes you sound like a a single issue voter, and I know you're smarter than that.

Matt


Ron

Oct 20, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #40 of 82 (1014 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
They won't profit any more than they currently do,

Sure they will, they will be the only 8 that can certify an instructor.

Quote:
Your distaste for good safety measures and reasonable progress

Please don't feed me a line of crap about my level of safety concern. I was one of the first people begging the USPA to do something about canopy deaths.

You seem to think the only way to save people is by creating another BS department. That is factually incorrect.

You seem to think I think nothing should be done. Well you are wrong there as well.

To put it simply, I have explained my thoughts.... You either didn't bother to read them or forgot them. But supporting an expansion that is not needed and not even the wing suit community can agree on is nowhere fucking close to not being concerned about safety issues.


firstime  (B 28972)

Oct 21, 2012, 5:48 PM
Post #41 of 82 (1001 views)
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Re: [Pattybeeny] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

well said Patty, He has my vote


RevvyAiny  (B 37576)

Oct 26, 2012, 8:54 AM
Post #42 of 82 (912 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Great piece, Rich!

I appreciate that you are so very available to answer questions and offer guidance. You have my full support!


(This post was edited by RevvyAiny on Oct 26, 2012, 8:54 AM)


Douggarr  (D 2791)

Oct 26, 2012, 11:17 AM
Post #43 of 82 (884 views)
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I can't give a high enough endorsement to Winnie. When I made my comeback three years ago, he made sure I knew what was going on and made sure I was aware of safety standards at busy DZs such as Skydive Long Island. Have since been to a dozen different DZs in seven or eight states and I can say without reservation, he's probably the best national director I've seen in a long time. He understands all the disciplines and favors none. He's into training and developing new skydivers. I'll follow him out the door of any plane, any time, even on a beach demo (which I've done). If you have the opportunity to meet with him or skydive with him, do it. If not, just vote for him anyway.


Pattybeeny  (D 30938)

Oct 26, 2012, 12:10 PM
Post #44 of 82 (876 views)
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Re: [Douggarr] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Indeed. I have traveled to about 10-12 different DZ's during my skydiving career and honestly have only found 2 that stood out in terms of "welcoming newcomers", "ensuring you were well versed in the area and aware of all of the safety issues" and most importantly - "that you were introduced to other jumpers and placed into safe hands". Rich was one of them -- as I mentioned earlier -- came over (without being prompted) - talked about my gear, ways I could do things differently (in a very positive manner) and then basically nurtured me into being a better jumper. If not for him I'd probably still be flopping in the air with no sense of direction or guidance to better myself.

Did I have fun along the way? Sure I did. But I was having fun falling through the air - not flying in the sky. Rich taught me how to "fly" and in the safest way possible.

I've watching him keep an eye on everyone -- and always stepped in when something was not safe. Of course in this position, you can't please everyone -- no one likes the guy who sets rules and has to say no to something. Sometimes you need someone to step in and implement safety. No one wants to be that guy.....but Rich does it in a non-mean way.

Same with the wingsuit debate. I'm not a wingsuiter - never had an interest (although I love to watch you fly) - but from my understanding -- as mentioned above - there is no set in stone rules - just a fact that there must be "some" rules in place to make it safe and if that entails having someone certified to ensure that people are adequately trained and versed to fly a wingsuit - then why would anyone try and stop that??? THAT sounds more dangerous to me -- trying to stop it. I've watched 2 friends almost die in wingsuits - both had zero training -- just borrowed a friends suit - tried it on and went for it....one got lucky 10 times then had a bad exit and almost killed himself and everyone on the plane.....why? because he was (pardon the pun) just winging it (Cool) But seriously -- no training at all. Another friend had a wicked malfunction on his first attempt at a wingsuuit and almost died....had no cypress - and spent way too long trying to correct the problem. 2 Broken Femurs later...... Not to say that accidents dont happen for any type of flying - but we get trained to fly by an instructor - who then signs us off AFF/AFP when they feel we are adequately trained and safe to fly and not kill ourselves.....why so much hatred for wanting the same for wingsuits? There are a LOT of restrictions and things to consider before donning a suit yet I see people borrowing other folks suits and just throwing them on without ANY training or guidance. Makes perfect sense to me to have some training in place. From my understanding - the floor is open for all involved to "develop" the training protocol and develop a method where people can be "qualified" to teach and then have a method in place to actually teach/guide folks to learn to wing suit. Not my beat really, not involved in it - but it makes valid sense to me.

Despite that - again, Rich is unfortunately in the hot seat for it and obviously cannot please everyone. There will be those "for it" and those "against it" and as Rich stated - his job is to represent THE MAJORITY and the majority rules - so if the majority voted in favor of it -- and he is to represent the majority, there will obviously be some that are not happy. That is just the name of the game unfortunately.

Wingsuits aside - Rich has never steered my wrong, and have never put anyone in harms way. He is a fun jumper, an instructor and someone who truly believes in the sport and wants to see everyone enjoy it as long as they possibly can in the safest manner.

He totally has my vote.....he's not a politician or someone trying to get votes in for their own benefit. That in itself should say something. His only reason for battling on our behalf is to keep the sport as safe as it can be. You can love him or hate him for that - but he's just doing his job and a damn good one at that.


Steve224

Oct 26, 2012, 12:46 PM
Post #45 of 82 (869 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

You got my Vote Rich!!
Rich has been there for me since I started Skydiving and is always there for me (you) to help.

VOTE for RICH


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Oct 26, 2012, 1:32 PM
Post #46 of 82 (863 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Rich you have my vote you know that. I also will not be voting for anyone else. This will help you get one up on the others. I suggest everyone else to do the same. It's about time we have someone on the board that cares about skydivers instead of how it affects there dz or manufactures. Tho he is one of many on the board now it would be a great loss to lose him. I know Rich personally. So when I say he has skydivers and skydiving as a whole on his agenda. I wish you the best Rich. Good luck in the election.


NYKid  (C 99999)

Oct 26, 2012, 5:28 PM
Post #47 of 82 (842 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Rich Winstock for Pres

I like Ozzy's way of thinking I'm only voting for him too.


mc2

Oct 27, 2012, 8:49 AM
Post #48 of 82 (806 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

As a new student this year one of the aspects I've most appreciated is the time and effort instructors/coaches devote to teaching students - in between work, family, jumping tandems all weekend, USPA board, Rich Winstock still had time to answer my questions, and help out with finding a new rig. Thanks for all the help, good luck! Vote for Rich!

-Michael C


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 2, 2012, 9:29 AM
Post #49 of 82 (738 views)
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Re: [mc2] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello All,

It looks like the emails have gone out from USPA. It is easy to vote. Thank you all for your support and kind words. I appreciate it very much.

Regardless of the outcome my hat is off to all of the candidates running. Each of them brings a unique perspective to the BOD. I am sure we will be fine whatever the outcome.

I am still without power and on a generator for the last 6 days. To say I am in hell is an understatement. I have limited access to the internet so if I do not respond to something please give me some time to get back to you.

On a side note: I support Randy Shroeder for eastern region, my home region. Randy is invalueable to the S&T committee and the BOD as a whole.

Blue Sky's and Electricity,
Rich Winstock
USPA National Director


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 2, 2012, 2:14 PM
Post #50 of 82 (723 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

BlushUnlike so many running, I am taking a stand on this issue. My stance is based on 6 months of research. I am positive I am representing the majority on this issue. If the opinion poll comes back otherwise then I will fall in line with what the members I represent desire. Until then I will rely on the 300 plus personal contacts that have voiced a strong opinion for USPA to head in this direction. If this loses me support then so beit, it is my responsibilty as a national director to represent the majority.

I urge you to vote YES on the WS opinion poll. Keep in mind that only gives the S&T committee and WS sub committee a base line to move forward. Nothing will change for those out there right now. Only for new WS'ers and for those teaching that do not meet any USPA teaching criteria.



Someone once said "If we do not have standards, we are doomed to mediocrity."


I believe that anyone calling themselves “instructor” or “coach” in the wingsuiting world should be required to demonstrate ability to meet a standardized bar of performance equal to performance requirements of other instructional areas of skydiving.
I believe anyone using the title “Instructor/Examiner” should be required to meet the same performance standards as any other person carrying the rating of “Instructor/Examiner” in any skydiving instructional capacity.
I believe that standardized wingsuit instruction will grow/increase participation in wingsuiting around the world.
I believe standardized training will significantly reduce incidents including fatalities, tailstrikes, and off-landings.
I believe standardized wingsuit instruction is critical to the long-term outlook for wingsuiting on dropzones.
I believe standardized training reduces the ‘worry factor’ for DZO’s as relates to who has/hasn’t met an agreed-upon standard of training.
I believe the culture of wingsuiting is in need of a fundamental change; standardized training will resolve this change.


I believe that the disparities created by the 6 unique wingsuit training camps will be greatly minimized through standardized training administered by USPA. Further, I believe standardized training is required in order for the wingsuiting community to become a cohesive community, freeing resources at all levels and expanding the discipline.

I believe standardized training methods administered by USPA will relieve some concerns at the FAA and aircraft owner/operator insurance industry levels.

I believe Japan, Germany, Holland, France, South Africa, Great Britain, Australia, and other countries correctly address the complexities and rapid growth of wingsuiting and have implemented/mandated standardized training for First Flight Courses going beyond that which some manufacturers offer.

I believe that change in wingsuit culture begins with a standardized First Flight Course/program. I believe that a change in the culture will encourage others to want to fly a wingsuit.

I believe that standardized training has an impact on wingsuiting far beyond the First Flight Course.

I believe Robert Pecnik (inventor of modern wingsuiting) is correct in his written request to USPA to implement and administer standardized wingsuit training through a wingsuit instructor rating program.

I believe in standardized wingsuit instruction administered by USPA.

For more information/photos/FAQ’s: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y-Exdt_44nB2AgINM7MEWkZ-SytVM-HuyzK_HNRWtD0/edit#heading=h.y58a5ed19sc





Robert Pecnik letter to USPA: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxhZWxju4_IlaHNhWkVHckhvQTQ





Proposed Proficiency Card: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxhZWxju4_IleEc2ZkhpNjR5eHM/edit



Proposed Evaluation Sheet: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxhZWxju4_IlZFA4MEJTaXh1REk


(This post was edited by Para5-0 on Nov 2, 2012, 2:20 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 2, 2012, 5:10 PM
Post #51 of 82 (1457 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
BlushUnlike so many running, I am taking a stand on this issue. My stance is based on 6 months of research. I am positive I am representing the majority on this issue. If the opinion poll comes back otherwise then I will fall in line with what the members I represent desire. Until then I will rely on the 300 plus personal contacts that have voiced a strong opinion for USPA to head in this direction. If this loses me support then so beit, it is my responsibilty as a national director to represent the majority.

I urge you to vote YES on the WS opinion poll. Keep in mind that only gives the S&T committee and WS sub committee a base line to move forward. Nothing will change for those out there right now. Only for new WS'ers and for those teaching that do not meet any USPA teaching criteria.



Someone once said "If we do not have standards, we are doomed to mediocrity."


I believe that anyone calling themselves “instructor” or “coach” in the wingsuiting world should be required to demonstrate ability to meet a standardized bar of performance equal to performance requirements of other instructional areas of skydiving.
I believe anyone using the title “Instructor/Examiner” should be required to meet the same performance standards as any other person carrying the rating of “Instructor/Examiner” in any skydiving instructional capacity.
I believe that standardized wingsuit instruction will grow/increase participation in wingsuiting around the world.
I believe standardized training will significantly reduce incidents including fatalities, tailstrikes, and off-landings.
I believe standardized wingsuit instruction is critical to the long-term outlook for wingsuiting on dropzones.
I believe standardized training reduces the ‘worry factor’ for DZO’s as relates to who has/hasn’t met an agreed-upon standard of training.
I believe the culture of wingsuiting is in need of a fundamental change; standardized training will resolve this change.


I believe that the disparities created by the 6 unique wingsuit training camps will be greatly minimized through standardized training administered by USPA. Further, I believe standardized training is required in order for the wingsuiting community to become a cohesive community, freeing resources at all levels and expanding the discipline.

I believe standardized training methods administered by USPA will relieve some concerns at the FAA and aircraft owner/operator insurance industry levels.

I believe Japan, Germany, Holland, France, South Africa, Great Britain, Australia, and other countries correctly address the complexities and rapid growth of wingsuiting and have implemented/mandated standardized training for First Flight Courses going beyond that which some manufacturers offer.

I believe that change in wingsuit culture begins with a standardized First Flight Course/program. I believe that a change in the culture will encourage others to want to fly a wingsuit.

I believe that standardized training has an impact on wingsuiting far beyond the First Flight Course.

I believe Robert Pecnik (inventor of modern wingsuiting) is correct in his written request to USPA to implement and administer standardized wingsuit training through a wingsuit instructor rating program.

I believe in standardized wingsuit instruction administered by USPA.

For more information/photos/FAQ’s: https://docs.google.com/...eading=h.y58a5ed19sc





Robert Pecnik letter to USPA: https://docs.google.com/...u4_IlaHNhWkVHckhvQTQ





Proposed Proficiency Card: https://docs.google.com/...eEc2ZkhpNjR5eHM/edit



Proposed Evaluation Sheet: https://docs.google.com/...u4_IlZFA4MEJTaXh1REk



In applaud you efforts & conviction on the matter Rich and supported both that measure and you when I voted this afternoon.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 5, 2012, 6:12 AM
Post #52 of 82 (1425 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you. I appreciate it very much.


Ron

Nov 6, 2012, 9:54 AM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Someone once said "If we do not have standards, we are doomed to mediocrity."

Well, then where is your support for a "4way instructor examiner"???? I suspect that any day now you will release your program for "Freefly examiner" as well then?


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 6, 2012, 12:14 PM
Post #54 of 82 (1374 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Ron,

I think it is clear where you stand on the issue. I have said over and over I am not in favor of advanced regulation so stop being so melodramatic will you. You are discouraging me from even looking at these threads, as you probably are others.

and now to reiterate: I do not consider a skydiver with 200 jumps putting a wingsuit on for the first time advanced. In fact if I were to make a first wingsuit jump I would be a student and expect to be treated accordingly. As would many of us who want the best instruction possible before venturing into an unknown area.

I cant and wont defend this any longer, I have spent so much time. The material is all out there for whoever wants to read it. Each member can vote accordingly and then we will evaluate it at the next meeting, which by the way I pray you are at, with a rig so we can make a jump together.


Ron

Nov 6, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I have said over and over I am not in favor of advanced regulation

Again, your support of the WS proposal shows this to be flat out false.

Quote:
and now to reiterate: I do not consider a skydiver with 200 jumps putting a wingsuit on for the first time advanced

The USPA considers someone with 200 jumps to be "advanced".

Quote:
. In fact if I were to make a first wingsuit jump I would be a student and expect to be treated accordingly. As would many of us who want the best instruction possible before venturing into an unknown area.

Well then where is the proposal for video IE's?


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 6, 2012, 12:31 PM
Post #56 of 82 (1366 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

This

Unimpressed


Ron

Nov 6, 2012, 12:47 PM
Post #57 of 82 (1361 views)
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Re: [normiss] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

It is not my fault he claims to not be for more regulation while supporting his position for more regulation.


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 6, 2012, 12:50 PM
Post #58 of 82 (1358 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Twist it to mean what you want I suppose, but he HAS made his position and the reasons for that position exceptionally clear.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 6, 2012, 12:52 PM
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Re: [normiss] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Norm,

Thank you as I sit without power for the 9th day, you made me smile.

On a serious note: I supported this because the majority of those I have been in contact support it. Once the poll comes back saying 80 % are not in favor of it then I will fall in line.

Ask any skydiver that knows me if I am into over regulation and they will laugh at you.

and to address the above I do 4-way and video and do not want or will never want advanced discipline oversight. I just think this is outside of that. People can keep trying to label me based on this but it is simply false.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 6, 2012, 1:13 PM
Post #60 of 82 (1352 views)
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Re: [normiss] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It is not my fault he claims to not be for more regulation while supporting his position for more regulation

He is me. A skydiver who is currently doing AFF, tandems, Coach jumps, video, demos, 4--way.. Sorry I dont freefly that much.

Every decision we have made in two years has to do something with some sort of regulation or recommendation if you want to be all inclussive. When the tandem manufacturers wanted MORE regulation so we fell inline with the 19 new commandments, I was primarily against it. Ask around, or more specifically ask members of the S&T committee who was most vocal against it. So does that mean I am against ALL regulation? of course not, we already have regulations that need constant management and oversight to make sure they are in the best interest or best safety intrest of members.

I am rambling that is it.


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 6, 2012, 3:20 PM
Post #61 of 82 (1348 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to be clear, this reply is for Ron,not me.
Wink


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 7, 2012, 7:35 AM
Post #62 of 82 (1317 views)
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Re: [normiss] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry yes. I clicked the last reply my bad.


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 8, 2012, 12:43 AM
Post #63 of 82 (1280 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

...and to hopefully fuzzy the focus a bit, many of us DO understand that the wing-suit rating is NOT the only this you're doing, have done, or if/when re-elected WILL be doing.

Although that issue IS on the burner, it's not the ONLY thing going on...Smile


Ron

Nov 8, 2012, 12:07 PM
Post #64 of 82 (1245 views)
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Quote:
Although that issue IS on the burner, it's not the ONLY thing going on..

How someone supports one solution speaks to the approach a person will use to solve another problem.

1. There is not even consensus in the WS community that this is a good idea.

2. There is ZERO proof it will solve anything.

3. There are other less intrusive options that could (and should, IMO) be tried first.

4. It opens up a WHOLE new area that the USPA has not be involved with this far... But due to liability reason may have to start doing. For example, who trains people to do demos? Well that last TX demo shows that whatever we are doing is not good enough. So maybe to prevent the insurance companies from banning demos we need to create a demo IE position. You may think that is too far, but that is EXACTLY what we are talking about here.

It may not be the only issue... but it is a major issue that GREATLY influences the direction of the USPA's future.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 8, 2012, 3:18 PM
Post #65 of 82 (1229 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

http://youtu.be/keBqXrihP8w


Ron

Nov 8, 2012, 4:22 PM
Post #66 of 82 (1218 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post


Your concession speech?


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 8, 2012, 4:31 PM
Post #67 of 82 (1213 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

I promise when I meet you one day, I will shake your hand, you are a worthy opponent. I give, mercy, tap tap..

Can we agree to disagree and maybe work together. In fact it is in the hands of the members at this point. If it comes back that they are against it, then I will turn to you to help with alternate solutions or ideas to strengthen the safety of the discipline. Which we can both agree is the primary concern. Maybe common ground.
that is making a big assumption I get re-elected. So who knows. I can tell you I tried my best and in this crew falling short is pretty easy. It is almost a no win scenario. BUT I did do the work, and I did try to educate myself, and I did take a stance regardless of backlash. Maybe you can give me 1% credit there.

Take Care,
Rich Winstock


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 8, 2012, 4:31 PM
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

It may not be the only issue... but it is a major issue that GREATLY influences the direction of the USPA's future.


In reply to:

Well...that's ONE opnion. Wink


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Nov 25, 2012, 10:17 AM
Post #69 of 82 (1107 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Great time at Triangle Skydiving Center in Louisburg, NC for Thanksgiving. What a great operation with a staff that is there to make sure everything runs smoothly. For those that took the time to vote, thank you very much.
It is refreshing to see so many that care about the election.

Thanks Again and I hope to see you all soon.

Next stop, Florida.

Rich Winstock
USPA
National Director


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Dec 3, 2012, 6:31 AM
Post #70 of 82 (1017 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

I spent the weekend in Florida trying to visit dropzones. Stopped by Sebastian to see the gang and as usual they run a great operation. Also took a spin over to Lake Wales and was very impressed with the layout. Very peaceful.

Then Sat and Sun at Z-Hills, for a friends wedding celebration and to basically chat with everyone I could.

Thanks for the hospitality everyone. I also got the opportunity to meet some DZ.comers down there. Simon it was great to see you in person and in action teaching. Keep up the good work my friend.

I was a bit bummed out to see how many people really dont pay attention to USPA or even know there is an election going on. I tried to spread the word that the election does matter.

If all goes well Deland in Dec. and Sebastian for the invasion. I hope to see you guys out there. Please introduce yourself if you see me. Might have to tell me your user name though.


Blue Skys.
Rich Winstock
USPA National Director


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Dec 5, 2012, 5:05 AM
Post #71 of 82 (944 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice to meet you also Rich and talk openly about issues.

You have my vote simply because you asked for input from members on the issues you vote on. Event though I don't fully agree on the current proposal for a topic the approach to getting input is open and I appreciate that.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Dec 19, 2012, 6:20 AM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello All,

I just wanted to take a moment and wish the whole DZ.comer family a Merry X-Mas and a safe and Happy New Year. Or whatever holiday you celebrate, have a good one.

The elections seem to be old news since there is only two weeks left so on that note. I wanted to thank all that took the time to run and wish everyone good luck. I am sure regardless of the outcome USPA will be served well.

Blue Sky's for 2013 and please be safe.

If the world ends on the 21st, see ya all in the after world.

Rich Winstock
USPA National Director


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Dec 29, 2012, 8:33 PM
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Rich keep fighting the good fight. If people feel so strong about something they should shut up and run themselves. Instead of hiding behind a computer with no identity. That is all the time i'll give this clown.

All this change is doing is keeping a retard from throwing on a wing suit and jumping out of a plane without some sort of guidance. That is a good thing if you ask me. I've seen some scary exits from some people just like that. Almost taking out the plane. USPA is just trying to keep some standard with that. What is the problem? Oh anti government.. I get it....ME too but this is a good thing.

I don't get people having a problem with this change. There is so many things to consider when flying a wing suit. At 200 jumps its 10 fold.
Re elect RICH WINSTOCK!!


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Jan 6, 2013, 6:50 AM
Post #74 of 82 (617 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello,

Okay finally the election is in the past and we can start getting to work. I wanted to truly thank all of you for your kind messages and all of the support. For those that I havent earned your trust then I have three years to work on it, and will do so. I will try to do represent accordingly. I am available pretty much 24/7 for any comments or concerns. I promise to get back to you as soon as I can.

To all candidates: congrats to those that were elected to represent. To those that ran for the BOD and unfortunately did not get on, thank you for your time and efforts it is a credit to your character that you want to give back to this great sport. Most of you have accomplished careers within the sport and will undoughtably still be able to help a great deal. Please keep an open line of communication with me.

Look forward to meeting everyone on the Thursday before the Feb meeting. I am organizing another meet and greet at Deland. This day is to just jump and have fun with members.

Thanks Again,
Rich Winstock


Ron

Jan 23, 2013, 3:55 PM
Post #75 of 82 (546 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If people feel so strong about something they should shut up and run themselves. Instead of hiding behind a computer with no identity. That is all the time i'll give this clown.

Hope you are not referring to me.... Because you seem to be hiding behind a keyboard as well. And I DID thrown my name in the ring. The BOD voted for someone else.

Quote:
All this change is doing is keeping a retard from throwing on a wing suit and jumping out of a plane without some sort of guidance.

It is going to do no such thing. Just like you are supposed to have 200 jumps to jump a camera and we all that NEVER happens before 200 right?


(This post was edited by Ron on Jan 23, 2013, 4:12 PM)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 23, 2013, 6:20 PM
Post #76 of 82 (592 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It is going to do no such thing. Just like you are supposed to have 200 jumps to jump a camera and we all that NEVER happens before 200 right?

There is a difference between a "requirement" (BSR) and a "recommendation." (cameras @200 jumps are a recommendation, not a requirement).
*Generally,* skydivers follow BSR's.


Ron

Jan 23, 2013, 7:11 PM
Post #77 of 82 (586 views)
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Re: [DSE] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There is a difference between a "requirement" (BSR) and a "recommendation." (cameras @200 jumps are a recommendation, not a requirement).
*Generally,* skydivers follow BSR's.

Anything that the USPA does will only be as powerful as the DZO's allow. No more, no less.

Low pulls were quite common even with a BSR. The only thing that stopped them were slower opening canopies and AAD's.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 23, 2013, 8:11 PM
Post #78 of 82 (581 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
There is a difference between a "requirement" (BSR) and a "recommendation." (cameras @200 jumps are a recommendation, not a requirement).
*Generally,* skydivers follow BSR's.

Anything that the USPA does will only be as powerful as the DZO's allow. No more, no less.

Low pulls were quite common even with a BSR. The only thing that stopped them were slower opening canopies and AAD's.


And most DZO's don't allow their patrons to abuse the BSR's. Most DZO's recognize it's in the interest of their dropzone to promote safe standards (which is what the BSR's do, in addition to keeping the FAA off our backs).


Ron

Jan 24, 2013, 3:07 AM
Post #79 of 82 (569 views)
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Re: [DSE] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
And most DZO's don't allow their patrons to abuse the BSR's. Most DZO's recognize it's in the interest of their dropzone to promote safe standards (which is what the BSR's do, in addition to keeping the FAA off our backs).

If that we're true, the wing suit problem could have been easily fixed by a BSR.


GobbleGobble  (D 32887)

Jan 24, 2013, 9:31 AM
Post #80 of 82 (542 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
And most DZO's don't allow their patrons to abuse the BSR's. Most DZO's recognize it's in the interest of their dropzone to promote safe standards (which is what the BSR's do, in addition to keeping the FAA off our backs).

If that we're true, the wing suit problem could have been easily fixed by a BSR.

Which wingsuit problem (there are several)? There can (and should) be consequences for violating a BSR.


Ron

Jan 24, 2013, 12:03 PM
Post #81 of 82 (525 views)
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Re: [GobbleGobble] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Which wingsuit problem (there are several)?

That is a question better left to those that stand to profit from this exercise. The people who want the USPA to sanction them to provide training to others.

Quote:
There can (and should) be consequences for violating a BSR.


Where in the SIM do you see punishments listed?


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Jan 31, 2013, 1:14 PM
Post #82 of 82 (453 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rich Winstock National Director [In reply to] Can't Post

Not in the SIM; in the USPA Governance Manual.



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