Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel

 


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 7, 2012, 10:26 AM
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Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel Can't Post

This past Monday I jumped twice and passed level 2, but with level 3 the instructors told me I eigther needed to do tunnel time first or retake level 3. I only can move on to level 4 immediately if I have tunnel time. Here's the dilema.

The tunnel is broke until the 15th. I can't decide if I should wait until then, do my tunnel time, then go jump level 4 or if I should just go this weekend, redo level 3 blindly and hope it goes well and just move on from there? The problem was my stability. I potato chip like crazy, and kinda locked up because of it and over analyzed EVERTHING till pull time. Relax is just not seeming to come to me when the instructors are pounding the ARCH signal in my face over and over lol. I felt like I was having sex with the ground but apparently I was stiff as a board. What do you guys suggest?

wait and tunnel, or just go redo the jump again and hope for the best?


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Sep 7, 2012, 10:36 AM
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Ummm, tunnel time is not a prerequisite for moving on to the next level. Potato chipping is not a reason for repeating a level. Sounds like there's more to the story here. Do you have their exact feedback, as written in your log book?


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 7, 2012, 11:03 AM
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no. He just said my arch wasnt good and that I was too stiff and tense. He said I can eigther take tunnel time and move on or I have to retake level 3. He said I didn't look comfortable enough for level 4. Mind you, I was SO focused on relaxing that I sped through my exit sequence, and when checkin HALR, I didn't even pay attention to if the instructors had an instruction, just looked straight ahead and tried to arch arch arch even though the main side instructor was still slamming the arch signal over and over in my face and shaking his head no. It was super discouraging jump, and under canopy all I wanted to do was land, debrief and go home. LOL it was a rough day for me for sure, definately didn;'t feel anywhere near prepared like i did in jump 1.


(This post was edited by RyanFYF on Sep 7, 2012, 11:08 AM)


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 7, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Re: [peregrinerose] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ummm, tunnel time is not a prerequisite for moving on to the next level. Potato chipping is not a reason for repeating a level. Sounds like there's more to the story here. Do you have their exact feedback, as written in your log book?

I have a log book?


hillson  (D 33134)

Sep 7, 2012, 11:15 AM
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In reply to:
I have a log book?

When you were debriefed from your jump your instructor likely wrote down the pertinent information in a small book, yes? That's your log book.

I'd go speak to the instructors in Deland...as this seems to be the bigger issue:

"it was a rough day for me for sure, definately didn;'t feel anywhere near prepared like i did in jump 1."

And hopefully the maintenance will fix the Orlando tunnel...the air has sucked in there lately.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 7, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Re: [RyanFYF] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
no. He just said my arch wasnt good and that I was too stiff and tense. He said I can either take tunnel time and move on or I have to retake level 3. He said I didn't look comfortable enough for level 4. Mind you, I was SO focused on relaxing that I sped through my exit sequence, and when checkin HALR, I didn't even pay attention to if the instructors had an instruction, just looked straight ahead and tried to arch arch arch even though the main side instructor was still slamming the arch signal over and over in my face and shaking his head no. It was super discouraging jump, and under canopy all I wanted to do was land, debrief and go home. LOL it was a rough day for me for sure, definately didn;'t feel anywhere near prepared like i did in jump 1.

1 - no logbook
2 - said my arch wasn't "good" and that I was "too stiff and tense"
3 - said I didn't "look" comfortable enough
4 - same signal the entire dive - "main side instructor was still slamming the arch signal over and over in my face and shaking his head no"

5 - "I didn't even pay attention to if the instructors had an instruction" - one thing we look for every jump is that the student is aware and taking instruction (shows he's not in sensory overload). That might be why the signal just kept coming again and again.....I just don't know


there's a lot here I'm finding distressing about the portrayal of the instruction you received both in air and on the ground - I'm wondering if maybe you should reset and sit with your instructors and talk it out more before putting such a negative picture out here of the instruction you are getting. I'm having a hard time swallowing this account as written.

that said - tunnel time is a great way to get comfy for the rest of the freefall portion of your jumps. But so is a good Cat C as well. Tunnel is a great tool, but we've trained a LOT of people without.


I rarely get the opportunity to give an arch signal without some additional leg trimming signal first that will allow the arch to be more effective (typically narrower knees and/or legs out (sometimes taps), THEN arch). YMMV

Arching super hard will not fix potato chipping. So the two observations "arch better" (interpreted incorrectly as arch "harder") and "relax" are really in conflict until you are trained what they mean by "arch better"



A better arch is best achieved by "relaxing into it". Not just "Hammer" out the arch. A good arch can be more comfortable, not more effort.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Sep 7, 2012, 11:35 AM)


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 7, 2012, 12:16 PM
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That's what I am getting at. Ok listen,


The problem is NOT the instructors or their instruction. Not blaming anyone or anything so let's be clear, this isn't that kind of thread.

What this IS, is me just simply asking for experienced input on if tunnel would be more effective then a rejump. My instructors ate amazing and are very VERY patient with me. However it is my own self over thinking everything that seemed to make the jump unsatisfactory.

Sorry for the confusion.


DiverMike  (C 40024)

Sep 7, 2012, 12:34 PM
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Re: [RyanFYF] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

You have a good attitude for not wanting to assign blame and accepting responsibility for yourself. You will make a good skydiver

Having said that, and reiterating what rehmwa said, if you are on AFF3 and you don't have a log book, then there is something seriously wrong with the way you are being trained.


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 7, 2012, 12:41 PM
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Re: [DiverMike] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

Never even heard about one. Ill definitely ask though, they are very easy to talk to at Deland. Just don't always know what questions to ask. Thanks!


pchapman  (D 1014)

Sep 7, 2012, 1:21 PM
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Re: [RyanFYF] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

Who knows, maybe your body position had enough problems that the instructors weren't comfortable fully letting go on L3. If they haven't evaluated you flying free, before going to 1 instructor, then maybe that's why they'd like a repeat.

Sounds like you might want a little more ground work to really figure out what they're looking for, and what you're doing, considering that they were giving constant arch signals despite you thinking that's what you were doing. There's a clear disconnect between expectations, actions, and intentions.

The instructors might also have their own logging system for students, but I don't know the DZ. Still, you'll want a log book of your own as soon as you can.

As for tunnel vs. a repeat L3, the cost will be roughly similar (I'll let others refine that thought). If you think you can fix the issues next jump "no problem", do the jump. But it sounds like there may be doubts about that, that it might take a little more work to get the right muscle tensions and body positions ---- in that case wait for the tunnel and solve the bulk of the issue before returning to the sky. Putting your skydiving dreams on hold for one more week isn't going to matter in the long run. Smile


(This post was edited by pchapman on Sep 7, 2012, 1:24 PM)


ChaoP  (A 65048)

Sep 7, 2012, 1:50 PM
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In DeLand the AFF instructors keep all student logbooks on those blue sheets of paper (basically looks like a logbook on a sheet of paper, with room for 7 jumps). For all my jumps they started out asking me how the jump went and what I remembered, then showed me the blue sheet and explained what they had written down and went over the jump from their point of view.

When you graduate AFF they'll give you a copy of that blue sheet so you can copy everything into your logbook.


Over analyzing the jump as it was happening and being too stiff and not comfortable in the air was my issue that caused me to fail lvl 4 twice.

The wind tunnel helped me SO much. I went with bob and trevor. They had an hour block for 4 students, we each got 15 min. That's like getting 17-18 skydives worth of experience back to back. No waiting hours or days to get that next jump in, you do a 1.5min fly in the tunnel, wait about 5 min and get back in. It's great for when you're not comfortable yet. If something felt wrong during that last session in the tunnel, think about it during your 5 min break, talk to the coach for a second about how that last flight was, and then you get to go iron that out immediately and get yourself flying right.

As a bonus I was flying good enough at the end of the wind tunnel that they combined my lvl 4 retake and lvl 5 together, and then a lvl6/7 jump and graduated me. So I still got to graduate after 7 jumps instead of 9.


(This post was edited by ChaoP on Sep 7, 2012, 1:57 PM)


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 7, 2012, 4:02 PM
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Re: [ChaoP] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

That's kinda what I'm feeling. Trevor told me that I shouldn't wait that long (9 days) before jumping again but I think if I do wait while nothing seemed right, after the tunnel I will hopefully be ready to jam out the rest of my Aff course.

Also, unrelated question, but why don't they give students ear plugs or the choice to use them? I've had a headache all week long!


ChaoP  (A 65048)

Sep 8, 2012, 2:31 AM
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I've never had the urge to wear earplugs, never had any issue with the wind. I have gotten allergy symptoms though after jumping before... It happened twice during AFF, but then since I've graduated it hasn't happened again. Not quite sure on that.

I had to wait close to a month between AFF 2 and 3. That was because of bad FL weather combined with a sinus issue that I heard you should avoid jumping with. That wait killed me and I wanted to jump so bad. As for 9 days between an AFF jump and wind tunnel where you get 10 1.5 min jumps, don't think that's too bad. In the tunnel you can find that correct body position and get used to flying with a good body position. It'll be easy for your next jump, when you get back in the air and feel that body position that you had down in the wind tunnel, and it just clicks

It would also probably suck to wait a week after a shitty jump where nothing felt right and then go back and try to jump again, knowing that you have to get it right or you'll fail another level.


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 8, 2012, 7:31 AM
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that's what I am thinking too. I already know I won't be able to relax when I am worried about failling it again with out any training. Plus Im not rich lol


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Sep 8, 2012, 8:28 AM
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In reply to:

Also, unrelated question, but why don't they give students ear plugs or the choice to use them? I've had a headache all week long!

If (and this is a big if - the headache could be totally unrelated) your headache came from jumping while you had sinus issues, it's unlikely that earplugs would have changed the outcome.

You can certainly ask your instructors about wearing them, but I'm going to guess their answer will be "no." Being able to hear instructions clearly in the plane and being able to hear the radio clearly when you're being talked down are pretty important; it's possible that earplugs could interfere with that.


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Sep 10, 2012, 5:01 AM
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The prerequisites for passing level three are a stable exit, altitude awareness, able to release the student and they maintain stability (chipping ok, a little bit of a drift ok, flipping on their back, not ok, spinning not ok), and that the student pulls themselves at the appropriate altitude. Based on what you said, sounds like you did all of those things, but it really is helpful to have the instructor notes. Go buy yourself a log book (you can probably buy it there at Deland), and start copying the blue sheet information into it. It'll save you a lot of writing long term and give you much better information short term.


Ron

Sep 10, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
I have a log book?

I'd find a new DZ.

1. A log book is the record of your training. Without it, you have never jumped.

The only times I have ever seen a DZ not offer a logbook was if they were trying to keep the student hostage so you can't leave. That may not be the case here... You might of had to buy one and didn't, but if you were my student I would make sure YOU had a record of your jumps.

2. Chipping is not a fail-able problem unless it leads to something else. If it caused you to lose track of altitude, flip, spin uncontrollably, or freak out... Yes (and maybe it did since you claim you 'locked').

3. Tunnel is great, but thousands of thousands of skydivers learned without a tunnel. Having coached in the tunnel a bunch (I am coaching this weekend) and having an AFF rating... I'd never advance a student unless I saw their tunnel sessions.

Personally... I'd go somewhere else.

If you choose to stay in that program (DeLand has some great instructors) Id:

1. Get a logbook.
2. Make damn sure I knew EXACTLY what I was expected to do to pass.

Tunnel or not? Since you have to wait, I'd jump again.


dthames  (B 37674)

Sep 10, 2012, 10:47 AM
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In reply to:
That's kinda what I'm feeling. Trevor told me that I shouldn't wait that long (9 days) before jumping again but I think if I do wait while nothing seemed right, after the tunnel I will hopefully be ready to jam out the rest of my Aff course.

Also, unrelated question, but why don't they give students ear plugs or the choice to use them? I've had a headache all week long!

I had loud noise type hearing damage since I was 15 years old. I am sensitive to loud noise and freefall noise is very distracting for me. WITH my instructor's approval I have worn them on most jumps since jump 2. I also have a lot of practice listening while wearing them. I could hear the chest strap mounted radio just fine. But we did test it and I was very aware that I needed to be focused on listening.

Note: I tried to put a finger up in the helmet and pop them out for the canopy flight but doing so was not easy and messing with them a bigger distraction then just leaving them in.


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 11, 2012, 7:49 AM
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couldn't jump this weekend due to poor weather. Still waiting to hear from anyone at DeLand to let me know when my tunnel time is. I'll call them by the 15th (when the tunnel is supposed to be open) and see whats up. It's funny how quick they all forget who you are if you miss one weekend hahaha. As for the hearing, I have found some earplugs that are only noise reducers not full plugs. They were made to hear voices and noises below 25db and block sounds above 85db. I'll see what they say. I have a feeling they won't let me lol. But at least I will have them for my solo jumps after aff. Once I get some tunnel time in, then I am jumping the rest of my affs as fast as possible and then they can forget all about me. I'll just be another guy that jumps on Mondays. Unsure


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 11, 2012, 7:54 AM
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Why are you waiting for Deland to schedule your time?

Call the tunnel directly. There's more than one tunnel.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Sep 11, 2012, 8:07 AM)


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 11, 2012, 8:51 AM
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because they want me to take tunnel training with a specific instructor from the dz so he can sign off my aff3.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 11, 2012, 9:59 AM
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got it - good luck


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 11, 2012, 11:58 AM
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thanks, this little down time has given me a second to relax and come down from my first jumps. Now I am re-excited to get back in the air and I am looking very forward to the tunnel. I gotta get back in the air! I miss it already lol


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Sep 11, 2012, 3:52 PM
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Arching and relaxing seem like a contradiction in terms sometimes. But you need the arch/hips down for stability. Make sure your legs are not spread too far apart. That will lock the hip joints and make a good arch impossible.

When you practice your arch on the ground, do you do it like most of us, arching off the floor, straining against gravity? This was how I was taught and uses all the wrong muscles and caused me problems as a student. See if you can practice your body position with your feet resting on the edge of a sofa, pushing downward slightly. Relax the arms and pull back the shoulders slightly. If you can have a friend support your hands up level with your head and keep your arms loose, that would be good practice too.

Potato chipping often comes from trying to sit up in the air or push too hard on it. Visualize relaxing the the hands higher and laying all the way down on the cushion of air.

Hope some of this helps.


(This post was edited by JohnMitchell on Sep 11, 2012, 3:54 PM)


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 12, 2012, 8:44 AM
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In reply to:
Arching and relaxing seem like a contradiction in terms sometimes. But you need the arch/hips down for stability. Make sure your legs are not spread too far apart. That will lock the hip joints and make a good arch impossible.

When you practice your arch on the ground, do you do it like most of us, arching off the floor, straining against gravity? This was how I was taught and uses all the wrong muscles and caused me problems as a student. See if you can practice your body position with your feet resting on the edge of a sofa, pushing downward slightly. Relax the arms and pull back the shoulders slightly. If you can have a friend support your hands up level with your head and keep your arms loose, that would be good practice too.

Potato chipping often comes from trying to sit up in the air or push too hard on it. Visualize relaxing the the hands higher and laying all the way down on the cushion of air.

Hope some of this helps.

thanks, that helps alot!


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 14, 2012, 11:16 AM
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well I have to work tomorrow and the tunnel informed me they are still going to be down till around the 20th. Havent heard anything from the dz but I will probably go Monday and see if I am ready to do the jump or not. I'm sick of being grounded lol. Hope the weather holds so I can get back up in the sky


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 16, 2012, 9:38 AM
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Tunnel is still down! Oils be jumping tomorrow if the weather holds out.


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 17, 2012, 11:58 AM
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Jumped today. Aff3 ...check! Still recommended tunnel time but was cleared to move on to one instructor from here on out. My stability is the only issue at this point so once that tunnel opens, I'm there!


lookoutbelow  (A 63826)

Sep 17, 2012, 5:58 PM
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Good work!


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 20, 2012, 8:52 AM
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In reply to:
Good work!

thanks, felt good to "get back on the horse"


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 20, 2012, 11:22 AM
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In reply to:
thanks, felt good to "get back on the horse"

well, there's your problem.....


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 23, 2012, 4:32 PM
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Now the tunnel is saying the 27th!!! Grrrrr


Lazarus_762  (A 67183)

Sep 23, 2012, 5:48 PM
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dude, just fukkin jump...if you have to do it again, so what? It'll probably take me 15 jumps to make it thru level 7. BlushBlush Other than being broke all the time, it ain't that big a deal.


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 23, 2012, 7:43 PM
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Thats the point. I am trying to get funds together but level 3 is an expensive jump to have to do over and over again.


Lazarus_762  (A 67183)

Sep 23, 2012, 8:27 PM
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true, true...money always intrudes. I need a rich uncle that I don't know about, to die and leave me a big pile of cash..."Dear old Uncle Whatsisname...what a great guy!"


blue skies, dude. persevere!


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Sep 23, 2012, 8:37 PM
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You need to just relax, go to the DZ, pay for a jump and spend a little extra time on the ground going over the jump. Level 3 is not something that is so difficult you HAVE to go to the tunnel first before you can pass it! Lots of students never use the tunnel. If you relax and really go over the dive I bet you will do fine. Have some faith in yourself and have fun Wink


excaza  (C License)

Sep 23, 2012, 8:45 PM
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In reply to:
Thats the point. I am trying to get funds together but level 3 is an expensive jump to have to do over and over again.
Huh?
In reply to:
Jumped today. Aff3 ...check!


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 24, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Thanks for all the positive feedback! Trevor called me today and let me know that I can get in the tunnel Friday! After talking with all my instructors, we've decided that I don't need to redo 3 and am cleared for one instructor, but the tunnel will allow me to do 4 with much more confidence. I'm super pumped!


lookoutbelow  (A 63826)

Sep 26, 2012, 7:06 AM
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In reply to:
but the tunnel will allow me to do 4 with much more confidence.

I did tunnel between 3 and 4 for that reason, and because the tunnel is a lot closer than the DZ. I didn't really need to, but liked the idea and figured it would make 4 that much less stressful.


climber71

Sep 26, 2012, 6:18 PM
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Was that Orlando Ifly. Had to reschedule my time on the 22nd of September because of maintenance.


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Sep 30, 2012, 7:18 AM
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Yeah it was at ifly. Worth every penny. Got my shit figured out in 1:30 and was having a blast the rest of the time. Then Saturday I jumped and they combined 4 & 5 into one jump and I nailed it!!!

I had sooo much more fun this time and I feel really good about moving forward. The tunnel really worked for me!!!


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Oct 5, 2012, 9:29 AM
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In reply to:
Was that Orlando Ifly. Had to reschedule my time on the 22nd of September because of maintenance.

I'm going back to the tunnel Wednesday for more training. I love it!


ChaoP  (A 65048)

Oct 5, 2012, 8:06 PM
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Nice. that wind tunnel can really help if you're having issues. Hurry up and get that A, I need to find more people to jump with


lookoutbelow  (A 63826)

Oct 6, 2012, 8:13 AM
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Re: [ChaoP] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I need to find more people to jump with

When do you usually jump?


ChaoP  (A 65048)

Oct 6, 2012, 4:09 PM
Post #45 of 51 (620 views)
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Re: [lookoutbelow] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

It's random depending on my work schedule. I work weekends and nights, so I never get out there on weekends. I usually make it out during the week sometime, generally Thursdays, I might try to get out Monday or Tuesday this week. If I can't make it out then I'll probably be there Thursday


lookoutbelow  (A 63826)

Oct 6, 2012, 6:13 PM
Post #46 of 51 (606 views)
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Re: [ChaoP] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds unlikely we'll run into each other anytime soon then. Usually the only weekday I can swing is Wednesday. And even that isn't very often.


climber71

Oct 8, 2012, 3:17 AM
Post #47 of 51 (585 views)
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Re: [RyanFYF] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

Have the same issue with my legs, not there and too stiff. Took a couple weeks, off, was going then was told the maintenance took longer. Rescheduled, just came back, learned some things, got some corrections. Being away but still practicing helps one to relax. Funny thing got more of a workout in the tunnel, really felt tired afterwards.


climber71

Oct 8, 2012, 3:39 AM
Post #48 of 51 (585 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

Note, When Orlando IFly was under maintenance called the outdoor tunnel in Deland, the owner took me he closed up shop, and asked what website I found him on. Told him, he said already informed the company to remove the link. Got to Orlando a a week later.


RickieD  (Student)

Oct 8, 2012, 4:33 AM
Post #49 of 51 (580 views)
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Re: [RyanFYF] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a newby skydiver so am learning much from these threads. I failed my AFF3 last weekend, as my position - proven on the video - was horrible. We spent five minutes redoing some exercises on the ground and my instructor showed me one trick which just clicked in my head. We went right back up and I did it perfectly. Sometimes you just need it explained a little differently. My instructor had me lay flat on the ground, push up with my arms and he said - feel that tightness in your back? Get the same feeling when you jump and you will have the position. I did it, I was relaxed and I was on to the next level. Couldn't believe how easy it felt.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Oct 9, 2012, 7:11 AM
Post #50 of 51 (547 views)
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Re: [RickieD] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sometimes you just need it explained a little differently.

a good instructor will try different methods until he finds the one the student understands

a great instructor has all the methods in his bag and has an instinct on which ones he should teach first and usually gets it right in very few attempts

I both cases, it requires enough experience to be able to choose from many different ways of teaching the same thing (rather than just their one personal experience/anecdote. i.e., as an instructor, what worked for me - way back then - may not work for everybody. I need to have other examples and be open to what other instructors do also. And to be observant of the student to see how they learn best - to apply that to the rest of the training.)


a bad instructor just teaches the same thing the same way over and over again and then bitches about 'stupid students that just don't get it'


FlyingRhenquest  (B 37920)

Oct 10, 2012, 10:35 PM
Post #51 of 51 (350 views)
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Re: [ChaoP] Redo AFF 3 now or wait 9 days for Tunnel [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In DeLand the AFF instructors keep all student logbooks on those blue sheets of paper (basically looks like a logbook on a sheet of paper, with room for 7 jumps). For all my jumps they started out asking me how the jump went and what I remembered, then showed me the blue sheet and explained what they had written down and went over the jump from their point of view.

When you graduate AFF they'll give you a copy of that blue sheet so you can copy everything into your logbook.

Not cool, bro! Not cool! Your logbook is too important a tool and record to be so easily dismissed! This is your only record of your jumps. If you decided to go elsewhere, do you think the dropzone you go to will take your word about what AFF level you were on? To not even know you should have one... is mindboggling.

Of course, there's no way for you to know how important it is, if they don't tell you. I'm going to assume that it's (really) bad business process and not malicious intent that causes them to do that. But at the very least you should take it upon yourself to maintain your record of your jumps, and ask your instructors to sign off in YOUR logbook. If they complain because they have to write some shit twice, well that's really their problem and not yours.



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