Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly?

 


BravestDog

Sep 1, 2012, 11:13 AM
Post #1 of 55 (7159 views)
Shortcut
How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? Can't Post

Curious how a pilot, Mike Mullins or any pilot in the business, get his airplane on the ground so fast after dropping off the jumpers?

What does a pilot do to the plane/motors/props...that allows them to get the plane on the ground quickly? If you could compare that to a standard descent as an example, that would be helpful.

Is this fast descent hard on the plane?


(This post was edited by BravestDog on Sep 1, 2012, 11:25 AM)


theplummeter  (C License)

Sep 1, 2012, 11:29 AM
Post #2 of 55 (7109 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In the case of the King Air (or most turbines for that matter) you simply idle both engines and they fall like rocks. Turbines aren't like reciprocating engines as there is no risk of shock cooling. Add big propellers to the front which flatten at low power settings and create a ton of drag and higher weights and it's really not hard to lose the altitude.

Unless the pilot is really sloppy the airframe shouldn't take too much of a load either, although most airline passengers probably wouldn't care much for the descent.


BravestDog

Sep 1, 2012, 11:51 AM
Post #3 of 55 (7089 views)
Shortcut
Re: [theplummeter] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you reverse the props and add power to a turbine to get them to drop faster or do you just bring the engines to idle and that automatically flattens the prop angle causing more drag which makes you descend faster?

Are you pulling negative g's on the descent? Why do you say most airline passengers wouldn't care much for the descent? Is it the pitch of the descent, the view out the window, the negative g's?

Does a pilot spiral the plane down or follow a glide path?

What kind of pitch/bank angles are they using?


(This post was edited by BravestDog on Sep 1, 2012, 12:06 PM)


theplummeter  (C License)

Sep 1, 2012, 12:08 PM
Post #4 of 55 (7073 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Do you reverse the props and add power to a turbine to get them to drop faster or do you just bring the engines to idle and that automatically flattens the prop angle causing more drag which makes you descend faster?

Are you pulling negative g's on the descent? Why do you say most airline passengers wouldn't care much for the descent? Is it the pitch of the descent, the view out the window, the negative g's?

Does a pilot spiral the plane down or follow a glide path?

What kind of pitch angle are they using?

Airplanes do not use reverse in flight. The propellers flatten as the power comes back to idle. The propellers are governed to maintain a certain RPM, so as power is added the governor increases the pitch of the blades to maintain the RPM and as power is decreased the blades flatten to maintain the RPM. At some point (every engine installation/fuel control/prop governor is different) the blades will go to their flattest pitch angle and RPM will decrease.

Most pilots bank the aircraft to efficiently lose altitude. Negative G forces depend on how steep the pitch and bangles are during the descent. In a Cessna, more often the pilot is holding the nose slightly up with the elevator resulting in positive G forces but a steep bank angle and high rate of descent. I haven't flown jumpers in King Airs, so I'm not sure how they do their descent or what it feels like.

An emergency descent in a King Air has the pilot idle both engines, use one notch of flaps, put the wheels down and then push the nose over and bank slightly until you reach the gear extened speed limit. In the airplane I last did a checkride in the nose was 35 degrees below the horizon, and I was losing over 4000 feet per minute at 156 knots.


vpjr  (D 14158)

Sep 1, 2012, 1:55 PM
Post #5 of 55 (7019 views)
Shortcut
Re: [theplummeter] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

No pilot is doing or should be doing Negative Gs. Crap flies all over the cabin during Negative Gs. During the push over after the jumpers have left the aircraft may get slightly less than 1 G but not near 0 G. as the aircraft reaches the max speed the pilot wants to go then he will pull back slightly increasing the g loading for a short time but usually not more than 1.5 gs for 10 sec. The aircraft remains at this stabilized speed and rate until the pilot must level off for the pattern or flare.
The dramatic looking maneuver seen where the plane passes the jumpers. After the last jumper leaves the pilot rolls the aircraft and lets the nose fall. The roll during the fall keeps positive gs on the aircraft thought out the maneuver. Done correctly and a glass of water would stay on the dash. Done incorrectly the pilot could over speed and or over positive G the aircraft.
King Airs are sleek aircraft and have a higher Vne speed than other jump ships so that means that they can descend at a faster airspeed and can have a very high rate of descent and stay in safety margins.
A skydiver actually falls pretty slow compared to some planes I have flown.


fastphil  (D 5801)

Sep 1, 2012, 1:56 PM
Post #6 of 55 (7016 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

My brother used to fly twin otters for Spaceland, and I would occasionally fly right seat if I wasn't on a jump. I was always amazed at how close he could stay to the free falling jumpers on the descent; quite a rush in its own...


BravestDog

Sep 1, 2012, 2:45 PM
Post #7 of 55 (6977 views)
Shortcut
Re: [vpjr] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure how to phrase this, but I'll try.

Is it possible to roll the airplane, dive the airplane, and always remain at 1G and will the water in the glass always remain level, or will the glass remain on the dashboard and the level of water change angles in relationship to the glass? I guess there's level to the horizon and level to the relationship of the glass when it's level.

So if you closed your eyes, would you know if the plane was rolling if the water remains level in the glass during a roll?

In reply to:
No pilot is doing or should be doing Negative Gs. Crap flies all over the cabin during Negative Gs. During the push over after the jumpers have left the aircraft may get slightly less than 1 G but not near 0 G. as the aircraft reaches the max speed the pilot wants to go then he will pull back slightly increasing the g loading for a short time but usually not more than 1.5 gs for 10 sec. The aircraft remains at this stabilized speed and rate until the pilot must level off for the pattern or flare.
The dramatic looking maneuver seen where the plane passes the jumpers. After the last jumper leaves the pilot rolls the aircraft and lets the nose fall. The roll during the fall keeps positive gs on the aircraft thought out the maneuver. Done correctly and a glass of water would stay on the dash. Done incorrectly the pilot could over speed and or over positive G the aircraft.
King Airs are sleek aircraft and have a higher Vne speed than other jump ships so that means that they can descend at a faster airspeed and can have a very high rate of descent and stay in safety margins.
A skydiver actually falls pretty slow compared to some planes I have flown.


BravestDog

Sep 1, 2012, 2:49 PM
Post #8 of 55 (6974 views)
Shortcut
Re: [fastphil] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Does the airplane spiral down around the jumpers or does it descend at a plumb/vertical angle alongside the jumpers?


In reply to:
My brother used to fly twin otters for Spaceland, and I would occasionally fly right seat if I wasn't on a jump. I was always amazed at how close he could stay to the free falling jumpers on the descent; quite a rush in its own...


(This post was edited by BravestDog on Sep 1, 2012, 3:11 PM)


vpjr  (D 14158)

Sep 1, 2012, 3:14 PM
Post #9 of 55 (6950 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes it is possible.


BravestDog

Sep 1, 2012, 3:22 PM
Post #10 of 55 (6945 views)
Shortcut
Re: [vpjr] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

I asked a few questions, so I'm not sure what the "Yes it is possible", is answering.

In reply to:
Yes it is possible.


RM1  (D 28681)

Sep 1, 2012, 3:49 PM
Post #11 of 55 (6916 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMWxuKcD6vE

Someone else can make it clicky but 40s in should answer your question.


TSISK  (B 36373)

Sep 1, 2012, 3:52 PM
Post #12 of 55 (6904 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RM1] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

clickySmile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMWxuKcD6vE


(This post was edited by TSISK on Sep 1, 2012, 4:01 PM)


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Sep 1, 2012, 3:55 PM
Post #13 of 55 (6900 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RM1] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMWxuKcD6vE

Someone else can make it clicky but 40s in should answer your question.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Sep 1, 2012, 4:30 PM
Post #14 of 55 (6870 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I asked a few questions, so I'm not sure what the "Yes it is possible", is answering.

In reply to:
Yes it is possible.

Yes, it is possible to keep a glass of water on the dash during a rollover/pitchup. I don't think a regular post jump descent would do it, but it is possible.

I've ridden right seat observer with Mullins.

He basically rolls the airplane towards a very steep bank and lets the nose fall towards the ground. I don't think he ever goes inverted, but it sure feels like it. Fairly strong positive g load.
With power at idle, he is in a near vertical dive, with the airspeed up near the top of the yellow arc.

It's pretty cool.

And this is from one observer ride a few years ago, but I'm a pilot, so I understand how the things fly.
If he comes on here and says: "No, that's wrong, I do it this way", listen to him over me. Wink


BravestDog

Sep 1, 2012, 4:51 PM
Post #15 of 55 (6850 views)
Shortcut
Re: [wolfriverjoe] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's the flat pitch of the propellers that are acting like a giant fan to slow him down, yes? If you could not control the pitch of the propellers, would this type of descent be possible, or would you go to fast and risk ripping the wings off? Can a Cessna 182 make a descent like the King Air?

What would happen if you put the propellers in reverse while in these steep dive? Could you stop the airplane or make it go back up if you could keep the tail over the nose?

Does Mike Mullins take observers sitting up front on a regular basis or does he prefer to keep observers out and do they pay the same rate of $26?

Does his jumps ever get cheaper than $26 or is that the going rate? I'm comparing this to the Twin Otter at the Parachute Center which costs only $15. Is his King Air the most high performance/fastest jump ship in business?

In reply to:

Yes, it is possible to keep a glass of water on the dash during a rollover/pitchup. I don't think a regular post jump descent would do it, but it is possible.

I've ridden right seat observer with Mullins.

He basically rolls the airplane towards a very steep bank and lets the nose fall towards the ground. I don't think he ever goes inverted, but it sure feels like it. Fairly strong positive g load.
With power at idle, he is in a near vertical dive, with the airspeed up near the top of the yellow arc.

It's pretty cool.

And this is from one observer ride a few years ago, but I'm a pilot, so I understand how the things fly.
If he comes on here and says: "No, that's wrong, I do it this way", listen to him over me. Wink


(This post was edited by BravestDog on Sep 1, 2012, 6:06 PM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 1, 2012, 6:56 PM
Post #16 of 55 (6778 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Does his jumps ever get cheaper than $26 or is that the going rate? I'm comparing this to the Twin Otter at the Parachute Center which costs only $15. Is his King Air the most high performance/fastest jump ship in business?

$26 is the going rate (+/- a buck or two) for full altitude (13k-ish) jumps in the US. The Parachute Center does jumps for less because they don't spend money on required maintenence and inspections of their airplanes. This fact has been proven in post-accident investigations and by the FAA.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Sep 1, 2012, 11:25 PM
Post #17 of 55 (6667 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Mike Mullins kicks ass. Fastest to altitude and fastest back to the ground, usually around the same time the first jumpers start landing. Those 750 HP engines make a difference (if that's what he's got)


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Sep 2, 2012, 3:43 AM
Post #18 of 55 (6611 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

High bank angle in descent gives you little advantage. The coefficient of lift is low at high speed. What makes a plane descend at low power and high speed is form/prop drag. Spiraling just loads the wing up needlessly. In a plane I flew (twin otter) I descended at near 6000 feet per minute (fpm) with wings level and 160 knots (top of the green arc). I got down to pattern altitude in 2 minutes. So banking and yanking is going to save me what? A few seconds? Many jump planes are 50 years old. I tried to take could care of.the planes I flew. And I was still able to fly 30+ loads a day. Why? Because fuel efficiency and turn time (takeoff to landing) is reduced by how well you climbed! Not how fast you descended.

When I started flying jumpers I was taught "you gotta do a 60 degree bank to get it down". This is total bunk in a Cessna 182. It's hard on the plane and considering many 182 jump planes were built in the 50s and 60s I'd worry about metal fatigue.

I developed a box pattern approach and never, EVER try to spiral down "with" the jumpers. That's the fastest way to running into them. We just saw another collision between a Caravan and a 3 jumpers. It killed one jumper. You are the jump pilot. The lift operator. You are not part of the show.

And this is an amazing line of questions from someone who registered in 2003 but only has 80ish posts. Why the sudden interest? You almost sound like a reporter. Just curious.


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Sep 2, 2012, 3:59 AM
Post #19 of 55 (6601 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diverdriver] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought I remembered you. Remember this troll down memory lane?

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=881518#881518


twatterpilot  (A License)

Sep 2, 2012, 4:55 AM
Post #20 of 55 (6574 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diverdriver] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I thought I remembered you. Remember this troll down memory lane?

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=881518#881518

Yeah, I'm with you on this Chris...I have my reservations about how/why some of these questions are being asked...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVfBPMzlLSU


(This post was edited by twatterpilot on Sep 2, 2012, 4:58 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 2, 2012, 5:42 AM
Post #21 of 55 (6544 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I'm going to agree with Chris on this one. You do seem to be asking some odd, slightly loaded questions, and ti does look like that's all you do here.

I would suggest that nobody replies to your posts any further until you fess up and fill out your profile. Who are you, and where do you jump?


dthames  (B 37674)

Sep 2, 2012, 7:24 AM
Post #22 of 55 (6500 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What would happen if you put the propellers in reverse while in these steep dive? Could you stop the airplane or make it go back up if you could keep the tail over the nose?

I recall a book about test pilots where a test was done with a C-130 to determine if this type of a maneuver (reverse thrust) would work for emergency decent. I dont recall specifics but I think it had some hairy moments and made it into the book as noteworthy.


godfrog

Sep 2, 2012, 8:15 AM
Post #23 of 55 (6461 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diverdriver] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
High bank angle in descent gives you little advantage. The coefficient of lift is low at high speed. What makes a plane descend at low power and high speed is form/prop drag. Spiraling just loads the wing up needlessly. In a plane I flew (twin otter) I descended at near 6000 feet per minute (fpm) with wings level and 160 knots (top of the green arc). I got down to pattern altitude in 2 minutes. So banking and yanking is going to save me what? A few seconds? Many jump planes are 50 years old. I tried to take could care of.the planes I flew. And I was still able to fly 30+ loads a day. Why? Because fuel efficiency and turn time (takeoff to landing) is reduced by how well you climbed! Not how fast you descended.

When I started flying jumpers I was taught "you gotta do a 60 degree bank to get it down". This is total bunk in a Cessna 182. It's hard on the plane and considering many 182 jump planes were built in the 50s and 60s I'd worry about metal fatigue.

I developed a box pattern approach and never, EVER try to spiral down "with" the jumpers. That's the fastest way to running into them. We just saw another collision between a Caravan and a 3 jumpers. It killed one jumper. You are the jump pilot. The lift operator. You are not part of the show.

And this is an amazing line of questions from someone who registered in 2003 but only has 80ish posts. Why the sudden interest? You almost sound like a reporter. Just curious.
____________________________________________________________
This is the same techique I always used with 182's and 207, set manifold pressure and fly straight using a box pattern while decendinding.


petejones45  (C License)

Sep 2, 2012, 11:21 PM
Post #24 of 55 (6240 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Curious how a pilot, Mike Mullins or any pilot in the business, get his airplane on the ground so fast after dropping off the jumpers?

What does a pilot do to the plane/motors/props...that allows them to get the plane on the ground quickly? If you could compare that to a standard descent as an example, that would be helpful.

Is this fast descent hard on the plane?

he brings it straight down


BravestDog

Sep 2, 2012, 11:23 PM
Post #25 of 55 (6238 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Davelepka, diverdriver, twatterpilot,

I was hoping to ask some simple questions regarding Skydiving and want people to stay on topic without making False Accusations, Speculation and Comments that are Off Topic especially if it involves me, which it has. I'm not here to be your friend or to be popular. I don't need to know and have no desire to know who you are. I'm interested in asking some questions and learning something. My questions are on topic and relative to the forum.

Would you politely remove your off topic posts to my questions before I contact the website administrator and have them do it for you? If that is necessary, then you will be wasting their time and my time because of YOUR inappropriate public behavior.

If I wish to remain anonymous, guess what, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS and it's probably a good idea. Ever hear of Identity Theft, Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Cyber Bullies, Mentally Ill Violent people who want to harm you etc? Guess what, they exist everywhere.

Your responses are Off Topic, Accusatory, Speculatory and you are saying this in a public forum. Amounts to inappropriate behavior.

If you feel the need to Speculate, Investigate, whatever...Use Private Messaging, your telephone and leave your responses out of my posts. I do not want you to post your responses to my questions if they are going to be off topic, accusatory and speculative

In reply to:
I'm going to agree with Chris on this one. You do seem to be asking some odd, slightly loaded questions, and ti does look like that's all you do here.

I would suggest that nobody replies to your posts any further until you fess up and fill out your profile. Who are you, and where do you jump?


jakee  (C License)

Sep 3, 2012, 4:34 AM
Post #26 of 55 (2528 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you feel the need to Speculate, Investigate, whatever...Use Private Messaging, your telephone and leave your responses out of my posts. I do not want you to post your responses to my questions if they are going to be off topic, accusatory and speculative

I'm going to let you into a little secret which may be of great benefit to your blood pressure: you don't get to control what other people post.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Sep 3, 2012, 5:40 AM
Post #27 of 55 (2496 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's the flat pitch of the propellers that are acting like a giant fan to slow him down, yes? If you could not control the pitch of the propellers, would this type of descent be possible, or would you go to fast and risk ripping the wings off? Can a Cessna 182 make a descent like the King Air?

What would happen if you put the propellers in reverse while in these steep dive? Could you stop the airplane or make it go back up if you could keep the tail over the nose?

Does Mike Mullins take observers sitting up front on a regular basis or does he prefer to keep observers out and do they pay the same rate of $26?

Does his jumps ever get cheaper than $26 or is that the going rate? I'm comparing this to the Twin Otter at the Parachute Center which costs only $15. Is his King Air the most high performance/fastest jump ship in business?

In reply to:

Yes, it is possible to keep a glass of water on the dash during a rollover/pitchup. I don't think a regular post jump descent would do it, but it is possible.

I've ridden right seat observer with Mullins.

He basically rolls the airplane towards a very steep bank and lets the nose fall towards the ground. I don't think he ever goes inverted, but it sure feels like it. Fairly strong positive g load.
With power at idle, he is in a near vertical dive, with the airspeed up near the top of the yellow arc.

It's pretty cool.

And this is from one observer ride a few years ago, but I'm a pilot, so I understand how the things fly.
If he comes on here and says: "No, that's wrong, I do it this way", listen to him over me. Wink

Wow. I answer one question with a single, personal experience and you nail me with 2 fairly technical questions and 2 that are way, way out of my knowledge base.

And I agree with a lot of the others on here, you sound like a lawyer or a reporter looking for dirt (if you were looking for info for a positive reason, you wouldn't hide it).

You came on very strong. If you want more info from me, I want to know who you are and why you want to know.
You don't have to post the info, PM me if you'd like.


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 3, 2012, 6:06 AM
Post #28 of 55 (2481 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I was hoping to ask some simple questions regarding Skydiving

Not in this thread your not asking simple questions and they have little to with skydiving and more to with flying an aircraft.

Quote:
Would you politely remove your off topic posts to my questions before I contact the website administrator and have them do it for you? If that is necessary, then you will be wasting their time and my time because of YOUR inappropriate public behavior.

Good luck with that.


jakee  (C License)

Sep 3, 2012, 9:36 AM
Post #29 of 55 (2399 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's the flat pitch of the propellers that are acting like a giant fan to slow him down, yes? If you could not control the pitch of the propellers, would this type of descent be possible, or would you go to fast and risk ripping the wings off? Can a Cessna 182 make a descent like the King Air?

What would happen if you put the propellers in reverse while in these steep dive? Could you stop the airplane or make it go back up if you could keep the tail over the nose?

What does a wing do? Can engines burn apple juice? How much does an elf weigh? Are you an idiot? What's the square root of red? Where are my pants?


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Sep 3, 2012, 10:32 AM
Post #30 of 55 (2348 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jakee] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

What does a wing do? Can engines burn apple juice? How much does an elf weigh? Are you an idiot? What's the square root of red? Where are my pants?

LaughLaugh


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 3, 2012, 10:44 AM
Post #31 of 55 (2332 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jakee] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Where are my pants?

no mas pantalones....


Opie  (D 13906)

Sep 3, 2012, 10:47 AM
Post #32 of 55 (2326 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jakee] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
It's the flat pitch of the propellers that are acting like a giant fan to slow him down, yes? If you could not control the pitch of the propellers, would this type of descent be possible, or would you go to fast and risk ripping the wings off? Can a Cessna 182 make a descent like the King Air?

What would happen if you put the propellers in reverse while in these steep dive? Could you stop the airplane or make it go back up if you could keep the tail over the nose?

What does a wing do? Can engines burn apple juice? How much does an elf weigh? Are you an idiot? What's the square root of red? Where are my pants?

Shades you from the sun, safari search engines only, depends on the g loading, guilty, red, my bedroom floor Wink

If you are really board search some of bravestdogs old threads from before he was banned last time (circa 2003-2004). Some real gems and repliesWink


Scrumpot  (D License)

Sep 3, 2012, 3:14 PM
Post #33 of 55 (2221 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Opie] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Shades you from the sun, safari search engines only, depends on the g loading, guilty, red, my your mother's bedroom floor Wink

FIFY. Tongue


jakee  (C License)

Sep 3, 2012, 4:03 PM
Post #34 of 55 (2181 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Opie] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
It's the flat pitch of the propellers that are acting like a giant fan to slow him down, yes? If you could not control the pitch of the propellers, would this type of descent be possible, or would you go to fast and risk ripping the wings off? Can a Cessna 182 make a descent like the King Air?

What would happen if you put the propellers in reverse while in these steep dive? Could you stop the airplane or make it go back up if you could keep the tail over the nose?

What does a wing do? Can engines burn apple juice? How much does an elf weigh? Are you an idiot? What's the square root of red? Where are my pants?

Shades you from the sun, safari search engines only, depends on the g loading, guilty, red, my bedroom floor Wink

Who knew this thread would become so informative.

At the end of the day though, why is an elephant?


twatterpilot  (A License)

Sep 3, 2012, 5:35 PM
Post #35 of 55 (2119 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jakee] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

@Bravestdog I will question your motives about what types of questions you post. Especially AFTER your posts awhile back asking if it was OK to skydive stoned.

I feel it is my duty after burying friends of mine after 9/11.

You see, there was a group of people that asked questions like yours in the years leading up to that tragic day.

In my humble opinion, based on how you phrase some of your questions, it leads me to believe that you might be an attorney, an investigator of some type, or even worse, a reporter or someone with more sinister motives.

If you feel like telling us a bit more about yourself, and your REASON for asking these completely off the wall questions in 3 different threads, perhaps there would be a bit more cooperation from professionals such as myself.

But here in these United States of America, we have a freedom of speech. If the moderators would like to delete our posts questioning your motives behind this line of questions, then that is their prerogative.

Just to advise you, this is a public forum. And everything written here is public record. And as aviation professionals here in this country, it is our responsibility to protect the National Airspace System. And copies of all these posts have been made, and will be sent on to the proper authorities for investigation if it is deemed necessary.

Remember, YOU don't know who might be reading these.


jct

Sep 3, 2012, 10:37 PM
Post #36 of 55 (1987 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

The high descent rate is caused mostly by drag (prop, etc). In all honesty, it doesn't take much skill to put the power levers to idle and pitch for Vne (or whatever limitation is in the AFM for the door mod). Fast turn times are all in the climb. Climbing at other than optimum airspeed, and not arriving at altitude at exactly the right time is what really increases turn times.


piisfish

Sep 4, 2012, 12:18 AM
Post #37 of 55 (1960 views)
Shortcut
Re: [twatterpilot] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But here in these United States of America, we have a freedom of speech. .
do you consider DZ.com american ?? ShockedShockedShockedLaugh


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Sep 4, 2012, 7:25 AM
Post #38 of 55 (1872 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
do you consider DZ.com american ?? ShockedShockedShockedLaugh

Of course! Although they do let us foreigners play every now and again, so long as we behave ourselves. Tongue


piisfish

Sep 4, 2012, 7:31 AM
Post #39 of 55 (1865 views)
Shortcut
Re: [MikeJD] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
do you consider DZ.com american ?? ShockedShockedShockedLaugh

Of course! Although they do let us foreigners play every now and again, so long as we behave ourselves. Tongue
IIRC it is still a South African website Laugh


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 4, 2012, 7:39 AM
Post #40 of 55 (1860 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
do you consider DZ.com american ??

To be fair, the poster and the OP he was addressing are both in America.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Sep 4, 2012, 7:43 AM
Post #41 of 55 (1855 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
do you consider DZ.com american ?? ShockedShockedShockedLaugh

Of course! Although they do let us foreigners play every now and again, so long as we behave ourselves. Tongue
IIRC it is still a South African website Laugh

Well, owned by a South African, hosted in Canada.

But yeah... Go Amerka! Wink


normiss  (D 28356)

Sep 4, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #42 of 55 (1819 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Remster] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like we're stuck in the middle.
Typical for America.
Unsure


kallend  (D 23151)

Sep 4, 2012, 8:52 AM
Post #43 of 55 (1790 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BravestDog] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Davelepka, diverdriver, twatterpilot,

I was hoping to ask some simple questions regarding Skydiving and want people to stay on topic without making False Accusations, Speculation and Comments that are Off Topic especially if it involves me, which it has. I'm not here to be your friend or to be popular. I don't need to know and have no desire to know who you are. I'm interested in asking some questions and learning something. My questions are on topic and relative to the forum.

Would you politely remove your off topic posts to my questions before I contact the website administrator and have them do it for you? If that is necessary, then you will be wasting their time and my time because of YOUR inappropriate public behavior.

If I wish to remain anonymous, guess what, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS and it's probably a good idea. Ever hear of Identity Theft, Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Cyber Bullies, Mentally Ill Violent people who want to harm you etc? Guess what, they exist everywhere.

Your responses are Off Topic, Accusatory, Speculatory and you are saying this in a public forum. Amounts to inappropriate behavior.

If you feel the need to Speculate, Investigate, whatever...Use Private Messaging, your telephone and leave your responses out of my posts. I do not want you to post your responses to my questions if they are going to be off topic, accusatory and speculative

In reply to:
I'm going to agree with Chris on this one. You do seem to be asking some odd, slightly loaded questions, and ti does look like that's all you do here.

I would suggest that nobody replies to your posts any further until you fess up and fill out your profile. Who are you, and where do you jump?

Seems you have nicely confirmed everyone's suspicions about you, Dog.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 4, 2012, 9:02 AM
Post #44 of 55 (1780 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kallend] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Seems you have nicely confirmed everyone's suspicions about you, Dog.

You don't even know the half of it. I recieved multiple PMs regarding info they had dug up on Bravestdog, Fred Martin Feller, and Skyvandelta (the email address he posted in his profile).

He might be a lawayer in the San Fran area. He might be big into flea markets in that same area. He might be heavy into some shady looking Craigslist stuff, and to top it all off, he appears to be directly connected to the theft of a rig via the mail a few years back, a rig which was later spotted at, big surprise, a San Fran area flea market.

Lucky for us, Bravestdog has fallen silent on this forum, and provided he stays that way, I don't think the issue needs any further consideration. Of course, if he returns to the forum, a closer examination of the links I recieved might be in order. Who or whatever he is, we don't need him around here.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 10, 2012, 4:42 AM
Post #45 of 55 (1553 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm going to agree with Chris on this one. You do seem to be asking some odd, slightly loaded questions, and ti does look like that's all you do here.

I would suggest that nobody replies to your posts any further until you fess up and fill out your profile. Who are you, and where do you jump?

Dave, I think you are right.

Sparky

Feb. 2004

http://www.dropzone.com/...?post=910845;#910845

My response

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=910893#910893

Jan. 2004

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=881518#881518

diverdrivers response

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=882076#882076

Jan. 2004

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=883186#883186

My response.

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=883203#883203


blueblur  (A 64923)

Sep 10, 2012, 7:34 AM
Post #46 of 55 (1483 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

His response to Davelepka in his "How many feet do you fall" thread is cut an pasted word for word here too. Definitely suspicious.

In reply to:
Davelepka,

I was hoping to ask some simple questions regarding Skydiving and want people to stay on topic without making False Accusations, Speculation and Comments that are Off Topic especially if it involves me, which it has. I'm not here to be your friend or to be popular. I don't need to know and have no desire to know who you are. I'm interested in asking some questions and learning something. My questions are on topic and relative to the forum.

Would you politely remove your off topic posts to my questions before I contact the website administrator and have them do it for you? If that is necessary, then you will be wasting their time and my time because of YOUR inappropriate public behavior.

If I wish to remain anonymous, guess what, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS and it's probably a good idea. Ever hear of Identity Theft, Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Cyber Bullies, Mentally Ill Violent people who want to harm you etc? Guess what, they exist everywhere.

Your responses are Off Topic, Accusatory, Speculatory and you are saying this in a public forum. Amounts to inappropriate behavior.

If you feel the need to Speculate, Investigate, whatever...Use Private Messaging, your telephone and leave your responses out of my posts. I do not want you to post your responses to my questions if they are going to be off topic, accusatory and speculative

In reply to:
Let's not reply to this poster until he fills out his profile with a name and DZ where he jumps. All of his posts are asking basic questions that a real jumper might know, but some of the info is the type of stuff that would be of interest to a reporter or lawyer. Note that he signed up to DZ.com 9 years ago, but he's only asking very basic questions.


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 10, 2012, 10:32 PM
Post #47 of 55 (1225 views)
Shortcut
Re: [blueblur] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

How about answering questions rather than starting conspiracy theories?


freeflyfree  (D 28117)

Nov 11, 2012, 1:59 AM
Post #48 of 55 (1174 views)
Shortcut
Re: [twatterpilot] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
@Bravestdog I will question your motives about what types of questions you post. Especially AFTER your posts awhile back asking if it was OK to skydive stoned.

I feel it is my duty after burying friends of mine after 9/11.

You see, there was a group of people that asked questions like yours in the years leading up to that tragic day.

In my humble opinion, based on how you phrase some of your questions, it leads me to believe that you might be an attorney, an investigator of some type, or even worse, a reporter or someone with more sinister motives.

If you feel like telling us a bit more about yourself, and your REASON for asking these completely off the wall questions in 3 different threads, perhaps there would be a bit more cooperation from professionals such as myself.

But here in these United States of America, we have a freedom of speech. If the moderators would like to delete our posts questioning your motives behind this line of questions, then that is their prerogative.

Just to advise you, this is a public forum. And everything written here is public record. And as aviation professionals here in this country, it is our responsibility to protect the National Airspace System. And copies of all these posts have been made, and will be sent on to the proper authorities for investigation if it is deemed necessary.

Remember, YOU don't know who might be reading these.

Nice!Cool


Andy9o8  (D License)

Nov 11, 2012, 5:26 AM
Post #49 of 55 (1125 views)
Shortcut
Re: [freeflyfree] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

You wasted all that cut & paste bandwidth for that single word?
Crazy
Nice.


freeflyfree  (D 28117)

Nov 11, 2012, 10:01 AM
Post #50 of 55 (1049 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Andy9o8] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You wasted all that cut & paste bandwidth for that single word?
Crazy
Nice.

Sorry


jf951  (D License)

Nov 14, 2012, 6:25 AM
Post #51 of 55 (682 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Does his jumps ever get cheaper than $26 or is that the going rate? I'm comparing this to the Twin Otter at the Parachute Center which costs only $15. Is his King Air the most high performance/fastest jump ship in business?

$26 is the going rate (+/- a buck or two) for full altitude (13k-ish) jumps in the US. The Parachute Center does jumps for less because they don't spend money on required maintenence and inspections of their airplanes. This fact has been proven in post-accident investigations and by the FAA.

thats a pretty big wad of dirt to be throwing around, you must know john the and the rest of the maintenance crew out there.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Nov 14, 2012, 6:39 AM
Post #52 of 55 (668 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jf951] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The Parachute Center does jumps for less because they don't spend money on required maintenence and inspections of their airplanes. This fact has been proven in post-accident investigations and by the FAA.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


thats a pretty big wad of dirt to be throwing around, you must know john the and the rest of the maintenance crew out there.

I added the bold parts in case you didn't see it the first time around.

The findings in the Pitt Meadow King Air crash were that the high volume fuel pump failed due to corrosion on the drive gears. These gears are supposed to be inspected at regular intervals, but the MX records revealed that these inspections were not done.

Here's a quick quote from the FAA website
Quote:
The FAA alleges that The Parachute Center operated a DeHavilland DHC-6 Twin Otter when critical parts were well past their life limits and without inspecting portions of the wings for corrosion.

Full article here-
http://www.faa.gov/...ory.cfm?newsId=11980

What's neat is that less than a year later, they went back and came up with this -
http://news.aviation-safety.net/...he-parachute-center/

Let me guess, the FAA doesn't know what they're talking about? Bill personally looks the planes over every day? He doesn't allow swooping, so the DZ must be safe? You pay your money, you take your chances?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Nov 14, 2012, 6:47 AM
Post #53 of 55 (661 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jf951] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Oooohhhh!!!! I just had a look-see at your profile, and big surprise, you list Lodi as your home DZ.

I'm willing to admit that Bill and the MX staff at Lodi know more about airplanes than I ever will. I'm sure if you sit down and talk shop with those guy, they seem very well informed.

However, I'm also smart enough to know that they don't know as much as the FAA or DeHaviland (when it comes to the Otter). If the guys at Lodi insist that what they're doing to right, and the FAA/Dehavialnd disagree, I'm going to side with the Feds and the Canucks.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Nov 14, 2012, 7:24 AM
Post #54 of 55 (628 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jakee] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How much does an elf weigh?

Christ, I hate it when people are too damn lazy to do the research.

http://www.dandwiki.com/...ves,_High_%28Race%29

Quote:
High elves average 5 feet tall and typically weigh just over 100 pounds.


Ron

Nov 15, 2012, 10:26 AM
Post #55 of 55 (470 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jf951] How does Mike Mullins get his King Air on the ground so quickly? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
thats a pretty big wad of dirt to be throwing around, you must know john the and the rest of the maintenance crew out there.

Lack of MX has been cited in a plane crash that was owned by Lodi.

Lack of MX brought a 600k plus fine to Lodi.


(This post was edited by Ron on Nov 15, 2012, 10:27 AM)



Forums : Skydiving : General Skydiving Discussions

 


Search for (options)