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Tandem double mal

 

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Andy9o8  (D License)

Sep 4, 2012, 6:56 PM
Post #26 of 57 (2627 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
May I ask why this is called a double mal ?

Because "Alice" is already taken.


aulanov

Sep 4, 2012, 7:23 PM
Post #27 of 57 (2618 views)
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Re: [oozzee] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

Did anybody else notice how awesome was the passenger's facial expression before opening? (0:02-0:05 in the video)


diablopilot  (D License)

Sep 4, 2012, 8:35 PM
Post #28 of 57 (2605 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Good job man. I've had line twists that bad, but never had them that wouldn't unwind like that. I quit doing tandems this season after I did my 1000th tandem and don't miss it. I never had to chop and had no injuries, so I consider that a clean carreer. Nno better time to get out. Good luck.

1,000 tandems and no chops?
Unimpressed
Please buy my next lottery ticket.

Not all that odd. 2400 Tandems before my first tandem chop.


skygypsie  (B License)

Sep 5, 2012, 8:01 AM
Post #29 of 57 (2543 views)
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Re: [oozzee] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a DZ Staff Packer w/ over 10,000 tandem packs Strong, Vector-Sigmas.
My husband who is a TI with 1500 tandems, currently jumping Sigmas, has had the similar situations with line twists, chops & reserve openings that are less than comfortable, such as this.
Unfortunately, some packers just don't get the signifcance of clearing lines & need for articulation in packing.
I understand student body positioning on opening can play a roll on opening circumstances, but far too many times it is a result of lazy, inadequate packing.
Could I have your permission to post this video on my fb business & personal site ?
Hopefully, packers may get the idea: what you put into a pack, comes out in a pack !!!
So glad you worked it out Cool
btw:
I am definitely proud to say I only have one mal pack job resulting in cutaway within 1st week of packing 6+ years ago, because I take my job very seriously.


oozzee  (D License)

Sep 5, 2012, 1:50 PM
Post #30 of 57 (2488 views)
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Re: [aulanov] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

The student was an airforce pilot....i made him completely aware of what was happening,,,
His maintaining a good body position after the chop made my job easier...Thanks bro..!


crashtested  (D License)

Oct 9, 2012, 6:14 PM
Post #31 of 57 (2320 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for the video.

I jump Sigmas. One day I had line twists similar to yours that I couldn't untwist. I would start to untwist, get 90 degrees and turn back towards the rear again. Shit, gonna have to chop. Crazy

Then I realized that the passenger's legs were sticking out like a weather vane. We'd get sideways and the wind from our canopy's forward speed would push us around backwards. I told him to tuck his legs back between mine. From there we were able to untwist normally. Cool

I hope this experience of mine may be useful to others in future line twist situations.

2nd'ed

Also try bunching risers together, rather than pulling apart... I've also chopped something similar to that, so goes to show it does not always work


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 9, 2012, 9:39 PM
Post #32 of 57 (2265 views)
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Re: [skygypsie] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
need for articulation in packing.
Not sure what that is. Please enlighten. Smile


skygypsie  (B License)

Oct 11, 2012, 4:53 AM
Post #33 of 57 (2183 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

One of many definitions of articulation :
Articulation, in art and architecture, is a method of styling the joints in the formal elements of architectural design. Through degrees of articulation, each part is united with the whole work by means of a joint in such a way that the joined parts are put together in styles ranging from exceptionally distinct jointing to the opposite of high articulationŚfluidity and continuity of joining. In highly articulated works, each part is defined precisely and stands out clearly. The articulation reveals how the parts fit into the whole by emphasizing each part separately...
-----------------------------------------------------------
That's all I mean..understanding the parts ( rig) & realization of potential consequences of sloppy packing by uneducated, unknowing or lazy packers !
"What goes into a pack, comes out in the opening "...too often I've heard, "I don't care. I'm not jumping it " !
Afterall, packing a tandem rig correctly is a form of art & architecture...is it not ? Wink


(This post was edited by skygypsie on Oct 11, 2012, 5:02 AM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 11, 2012, 11:39 AM
Post #34 of 57 (2125 views)
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Re: [skygypsie] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah, gotcha, neatness counts. Cool

I'm a more mechanical person, not artistic like some. For me it's "Do it right so it comes out right." I think we would work well together. Smile


skygypsie  (B License)

Oct 12, 2012, 2:02 AM
Post #35 of 57 (2073 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileCoolWink


Pablo.Moreno  (C 13216)

Oct 12, 2012, 5:29 PM
Post #36 of 57 (2002 views)
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Re: [skygypsie] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

I have about 90 tandems, all on Sigma.
I had a few line twist (since I am in DZ.com I will say I had line twist in two jumps).
In one of the jumps was only one revolution so it came out on its own.
On another one, I had about four revolutions. At the beginning I tried to untwisted myself, and I wasn't going anywhere, like many of you mention I went 90 degree one way and then go back again to the same spot I was before, so I made the student to look up, and I said, "well we have some nice line twist, not a big deal we will need to kick at the same time to clear them". He start kicking the wrong direction and then I said "kick the other way" with in 10 seconds we where out of the line twist and still above 4000ft.

Good job making it to the ground safely.

I apologize in advance for my bad grammar.


OneJumpWally  (A License)

Oct 12, 2012, 6:47 PM
Post #37 of 57 (1986 views)
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Re: [Pablo.Moreno] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

LMAO Aulanov, I was rolling when I watched that. If all else failed they could have used the students upper lip to slow the descent haha.


b-radjumper  (D 20910)

Oct 28, 2012, 2:31 PM
Post #38 of 57 (1766 views)
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Re: [oozzee] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

This is the reason ozzy brad no longer works for Sin City Skydiving. let me tell you why, when you have line twist on your main parachute you are supposed to spread the risers with both hands and kick your feet to start to untwist, this is tought in every FJC that line twist is not a mal it is fixable. If you watch the video brad never tried to untwist the lines with his hands he just video'd it before he went to the reserve, you owe it to the passenger on front of you to try every option before you go to the reserve. lets face it reserves can mal also it is just another parachute. Ozzy Brad did not give 100% on this skydive he gave up and went right to the reserve, I've had worse Tandem reserve opennings and i didn't call them double mals. now that being said (IF) and i say IF the reserve did mal, Ozzy Brad would have been praying to GOD that he would have tried to fix that main. I could not let OZZY Brad take any more of my customers on tandem skydives because of this that is why he doesn't work here anymore and never will again. When you make the decision to become a tandem instructor you have to Give it 100%, 100% of the time, no matter if it is jump 1 or jump 16,957 That person on front of you deserve that!!! Good Luck to you Ozzy Brad and Blue skies...Angelic


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 28, 2012, 4:02 PM
Post #39 of 57 (1744 views)
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Re: [b-radjumper] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This is the reason ozzy brad no longer works for Sin City Skydiving. let me tell you why, when you have line twist on your main parachute you are supposed to spread the risers with both hands and kick your feet to start to untwist, this is taught in every FJC that line twist is not a mal it is fixable. If you watch the video brad never tried to untwist the lines with his hands he just video'd it before he went to the reserve, you owe it to the passenger on front of you to try every option before you go to the reserve. lets face it reserves can mal also it is just another parachute. Ozzy Brad did not give 100% on this skydive he gave up and went right to the reserve, I've had worse Tandem reserve opennings and i didn't call them double mals. now that being said (IF) and i say IF the reserve did mal, Ozzy Brad would have been praying to GOD that he would have tried to fix that main. I could not let OZZY Brad take any more of my customers on tandem skydives because of this that is why he doesn't work here anymore and never will again. When you make the decision to become a tandem instructor you have to Give it 100%, 100% of the time, no matter if it is jump 1 or jump 16,957 That person on front of you deserve that!!! Good Luck to you Ozzy Brad and Blue skies...Angelic


Bet he's having 2nd thoughts about posting THAT video...Monkey


jumpwally  (D License)

Oct 30, 2012, 7:51 AM
Post #40 of 57 (1619 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry..Pro's don't wear hand cams....


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Oct 30, 2012, 10:59 AM
Post #41 of 57 (1592 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sorry..Pro's don't wear hand cams....
What stupid comment. The overwhelming number of pros around the world wear hand cams at least some of the time whether they like it or not. It is a part of the job, whining video flyers not withstanding.


TheCaptain  (D License)

Oct 30, 2012, 2:22 PM
Post #42 of 57 (1557 views)
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Re: [oozzee] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

When I look at that video, several things come to mind. One why are you continuing to film when you have line twist? Did you try any other way of untwisting the canopy other than kicking and having the student kick. Canopies that open in full flight are very difficult to get out of but I know of 3 methods to untwist and I will/ have tried all 3 and have had success with them. First is Kick, second is bring the line twist down into the risers by twisting them together(once down in the risers you just generally unspin like a top). Last one probably would not work in your situation but if you are able to and pull the "right" toggle sometimes the canopy will just unspin above you. I have had that exact kind of openning on the same canopy with handicam. First shut the camera off or just get to work fixing the problem and get my hands on the risers. Hell I have even used combos of twisting it into the risers and kicking too.


Dokeman  (D License)

Oct 30, 2012, 4:07 PM
Post #43 of 57 (1541 views)
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Re: [TheCaptain] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

what about the rigger or the main packer? are they still employed? Dosen't look like they gave 100% either. just saying...


b-radjumper  (D 20910)

Oct 30, 2012, 4:25 PM
Post #44 of 57 (1532 views)
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Re: [Dokeman] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

nothing wrong with the rigging or packing Dokeman, you can see in the video that that main opennend as nice as a 365 can and was flying nice and strait Read the Captains comments he is correct also read the warning label on any parachute even a properly packed main/reserve can mal, but this was not a mal, it was the operator who faled to do his job.


(This post was edited by b-radjumper on Oct 30, 2012, 4:41 PM)


Dokeman  (D License)

Oct 30, 2012, 6:15 PM
Post #45 of 57 (1500 views)
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Re: [b-radjumper] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

so if there was no issue, who did the packing? just wondering..??


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Oct 30, 2012, 10:31 PM
Post #46 of 57 (1456 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sorry..Pro's don't wear hand cams....

Pardon me?


D8055  (D 8055)

Oct 31, 2012, 12:51 AM
Post #47 of 57 (1443 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

I was told during my firsdt jump course... back in 1978.... "what you do to a parachute to pack it, it has to undo to open". Been a part of my being ever since... So, ya neatness, and everything else counts!


D8055  (D 8055)

Oct 31, 2012, 1:07 AM
Post #48 of 57 (1439 views)
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Re: [Dokeman] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

I was n't around for the packing of the main or the deployment. But I make a point to follow up on any reserve rides I packed. All I can saty is I'm tired of hearing about a double malfunction that didn't exist.
The reserve opened normally! Several reports from the ground stated that it looked normal, maybe a little slow. besides the fact that these reserves are packed with a very deep brake setting and will begin all sorts of movement if not acted on on swiftly... This particular instructor cut away fro a functioning parachute without an attempt to clear line twists. There was no rapid decent. He fell away in dead air and tried deploying a very large parachute from a "zero" airspeed... you bet its going to open slow! He was also probably "stnding/sitting up" when he fell away... the likely bounce off his head a couple of times! Further more, the deployment was not even as slow as made out to be. He did not acccelerate enough, or fall far enough, to even fire the Vigil.
All he is doing is MSUing to take the heat off his failures. What he is doing in the mean time is making others jumping my reserve packs feel uncomfortable. Its time to stop the bull$!@*.


jumpwally  (D License)

Oct 31, 2012, 6:31 AM
Post #49 of 57 (1410 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't get your panties in a bunch,,i have never seen a good hand video i liked,,,,its a weird look,,its got its place,,just like a ankle cam or even a dick cam,,,but your not going to catch the overall joy and experience that a video guy can go,,,no comparison at all in my book. I wouldn't pay a penny for it. Plus the tangle hazard isn't worth it if you've got someone's life in your hands,,,pick a job,,,TI or Video guy...Tongue


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 31, 2012, 9:12 AM
Post #50 of 57 (1386 views)
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Re: [D8055] Tandem double mal [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
All he is doing is MSUing to take the heat off his failures. What he is doing in the mean time is making others jumping my reserve packs feel uncomfortable. Its time to stop the bull$!@*.
Amen, Brother! Smile


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