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Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15)

 

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Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Nov 19, 2012, 12:20 PM
Post #76 of 111 (5485 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
OK, thanks Doug.

I don't know which settings they used for their new demo vid, but it looked far better then older GoPro stuff.

I'm still hoping one of these will prevent me from the hassles of flying my CX-150 next season.

Demo vids=a lot of post, tweaks in camera. It's a great lil' camera, please don't misunderstand. What it isn't, is significantly better than previous offerings (excepting audio, the FFT works well, but then again, Sony and RePlay already had this feature long, long before GP).
With this many POV cams in my kit, I feel I have a pretty un-biased view of them. Unlike most of the folks posting all the great stuff about the various cameras, I have to pay for them (including the Sony cams).


PiLFy  (A License)

Nov 19, 2012, 1:10 PM
Post #77 of 111 (5471 views)
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Re: [DSE] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

I won't bother pretending I know what FFT is Tongue...

Is not the GP's new glass lens a distinct step up? I currently have Vegas, & a very old PC (w/2 gigs of RAM).

I scored a great deal on a near-new cx. BUT... actually flying it will cost another $700-ish. Then, there's the added weight.

A POV would be much better for me IF I was happy w/the vid quality.


soulbabel

Nov 19, 2012, 1:51 PM
Post #78 of 111 (5460 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is not the GP's new glass lens a distinct step up?
I shot some comparison video over the weekend, and I think the Sony Carl Zeiss lens delivers significantly sharper video than the GoPro Hero3 Black lens. That's based on my initial comparison though, the Hero3 was in Protune mode so I don't know if sharpening the footage would make them more comparable (I kinda doubt it). The thing that hurts the Sony though is the lower bitrate that it encodes at. At 120fps the Sony encodes around 24Mbps, whereas the GoPro in Protune mode is nearly double at 46Mbps. The Sony bitrate results in strong compression artifacts (evident in the youtube link below).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKUIYlqyRAc
Hopefully Sony updates its firmware to allow increased bitrate like GoPro did with the Hero2.


PiLFy  (A License)

Nov 19, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #79 of 111 (5457 views)
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Re: [soulbabel] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll wait for you guys to come to an agreement on which is best. I really don't know much about these cameras. I've still got several months' time.

Thanks


soulbabel

Nov 19, 2012, 3:31 PM
Post #80 of 111 (5443 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

For fun jumping I plan on using the Hero3 Black, just because it was a lot easier to attach to my Cookie G2 and it's easier to change the camera angle for whatever type of jump I find myself on. I'd be careful of using the Hero3 for filming tandems though, because that battery drains pretty quick right now. It went from fully charged to dead in 2 or 3 days, despite being powered off and wifi disabled the entire time. The Sony's battery life has held up pretty well; when I turned it on, it had a strong charge despite being left off the charger for two weeks. I don't know if I'd recommend the HDR-AS15 for filming tandems either though, because it has its share of flaws as well. I'll probably stick with my trusty CX150 for tandems, or upgrade to a HDR-PJ710V if the price point is low enough after Sony releases next year's cameras.


trunk  (D 28511)

Nov 20, 2012, 12:18 PM
Post #81 of 111 (5408 views)
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Re: [trunk] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

So after a few hours with support, one disconnection and and an endless loop for a bit, I'm sending my AS15 in for repair. Lets hope they fix it or when I get one back its shoots as well as all you are stating it does. I've been super unimpressed by it and hope its just a bad apple I got.


PiLFy  (A License)

Nov 20, 2012, 12:48 PM
Post #82 of 111 (5398 views)
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Re: [soulbabel] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

We'll see. I'm finding it harder to justify the added weight, expense, & discomfort of flying my cx150 just for fun jumping. Hopefully, the little glitches will be ironed out by next season.

Thanks.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Nov 20, 2012, 4:38 PM
Post #83 of 111 (5372 views)
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Re: [soulbabel] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The Sony's battery life has held up pretty well; when I turned it on, it had a strong charge despite being left off the charger for two weeks. I don't know if I'd recommend the HDR-AS15 for filming tandems either though, because it has its share of flaws as well.

Please elaborate?


bdazel  (D License)

Nov 27, 2012, 6:02 AM
Post #84 of 111 (5223 views)
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Re: [DSE] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems to me that one major downside of the AS15 or GoPro for tandem use would be the lack of a controller and status indicator such as the Hypeye. I know GoPro offers a remote with some models, but it still does not give you the same immediate and visual feedback as the status indicator. Using an iphone or whatever to control the AS15 seems impractical for tandem videos, but perhaps I'm missing something.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Nov 27, 2012, 1:37 PM
Post #85 of 111 (5174 views)
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Re: [bdazel] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed. The RePlay offers haptic feedback, Drift Ghost offers a remote with feedback.
However... a lot of people are turning to POV cameras for tandems, whether some of us like it or not (I'm not one of them).


soulbabel

Nov 28, 2012, 6:28 PM
Post #86 of 111 (5105 views)
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Re: [DSE] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Please elaborate?

Aside from the bitrate issues causing compression artifacts, the flaws (perhaps limitations is a better word) I was speaking about aren't dealbreakers. These are just issues I've encountered that others might run into as well.

- No audio when recording at 60fps or 120fps.
I want to be able to shoot at the higher framerate to have smoother slowmo capabilities when editing the skydive, but I'd also like to catch whatever the tandem might say on the way to the door. (Hero3 Black records audio at 120fps, so perhaps this could be changed on the Sony via a firmware upgrade.)

- It's hard to hear the recording beep on the plane with the camera in it's waterproof case.
I either have to have my cellphone on me with the Playmemories app working to make sure it was recording, or ask someone to look at the camera's rear recording light. It makes me appreciate the Hypeye, because I really don't want to have to carry my phone on me every skydive.

- When I swap out the CX150 and place the HDR-AS15 on my top mounted camera bracket, the bracket ends up blocking the camera case latching. I have to remove the tripod screw that I use to mount it, so I can get the camera out of the case to change camera settings or copy data from the memory card. It's only a minor hassle, but it raises the chance that I accidently drop, and possibly lose my tripod screw. Not everyone is going to run into this issue, because it depends on how they choose to mount the action cam. On my Tonfly CX2, the HDR-AS15 mounted onto the zkulls using a tripod screw is actually pretty perfect; easy to flip the latching and get the camera out to adjust the settings. It definitely wouldn't be an issue if I used the sticky mount, but then I lose the flexibility of using my CX150 if the HDR-AS15 isn't working correctly.


I'm sure if someone really wanted to lighten up their load, they could get this camera working well on their helmet setup and in their video editing workflow. My CX150 yields good quality while keeping things simple and reliable, so it's what I prefer/recommend for filming tandems.


trunk  (D 28511)

Dec 14, 2012, 12:36 PM
Post #87 of 111 (4845 views)
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Re: [soulbabel] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

After a few months of this camera and Sony's inability to "fix" my camera I have to say this camera is a complete POS. It does not set the white balance correctly, it has way too low bit rate for skydiving, and the mounting options suck. Any thing with any fast change to it and your image just becomes a pixelized blob. I generally do like a Sony products but now I have a $270 paper weight. I do NOT suggest this camera to anyway doing anything fast in skydiving or any HS action sports where the whole frame is changing from the previous.

I sent it in for repair and they said the lens has been touched from the inside. Trust me I know better than to unscrew a focused lens. This is complete BS and was going to give them the benefit of the doubt but now must say they really missed the bar on this one. (End of rant)


PiLFy  (A License)

Dec 15, 2012, 9:37 AM
Post #88 of 111 (4781 views)
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Re: [trunk] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry to learn of your troubles w/this, Trunk. IMHO, Sony's refusal to replace a defective unit is completely unacceptable. In comparison, I recently purchased a Kindle Fire HD from Amazon. There is a slight problem w/it. After a quick, no-hassle phone call, Amazon is shipping me a new one. They're also paying all the shipping, both ways. I don't even have to return the defective unit, first. They took my word on the problem. Any huge Company that doesn't stand behind their products, loses my business.


trunk  (D 28511)

Dec 15, 2012, 11:26 AM
Post #89 of 111 (4768 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they just knew there wasn't a "fix" for the issues I was having so tried to weasel their way out of it.


PiLFy  (A License)

Dec 16, 2012, 11:10 AM
Post #90 of 111 (4701 views)
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Re: [trunk] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think they just knew there wasn't a "fix" for the issues I was having so tried to weasel their way out of it.

Either way, it's inexcusable. Sony makes some great stuff. If they treat some of their lower-end customers like this, though. I'll shop elsewhere when I need something higher up the food chain. $300 is $300... Intentionally sticking a customer w/junk is theft, plain N simple.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 16, 2012, 11:00 PM
Post #91 of 111 (4637 views)
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Re: [trunk] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you open the housing of the camera?


soulbabel

Dec 17, 2012, 6:45 AM
Post #92 of 111 (4583 views)
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Re: [trunk] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

Would it be possible to take the lens from the Sony, and stick it on the GoPro? The Carl Zeiss lens is probably the only real good thing about the camera.


DougH  (D License)

Dec 17, 2012, 7:58 AM
Post #93 of 111 (4557 views)
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Re: [soulbabel] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

Trunk, your shit Sony customer service experience echos one that I had with them this year.

When I purchased my CX760 over the phone I was told that it qualified for 18 months deferred interest financing (0% if PIF in 18 months) but they billed my Sony consumer CC and gave me only 6 months.

I still have not been able to get them to stick to their agreement, and their only accommodation has been to return the camera.

Their customer service people are horrible, and I am stuck talking to CSRs from an India call center with managers that refuse to get on the phone, Absolutely mind blowing what a fuck up their customer service is.


trunk  (D 28511)

Dec 24, 2012, 4:37 PM
Post #94 of 111 (4393 views)
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Re: [DSE] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

After the first day of using the camera, the bottom door of the AS15 broke off and the other half was rattling in side the chassis, I slid off the back to take out the broken piece and of course looked at the electronics. I never ever unscrewed the lens or touched any electronics. I do this sh*t for a living and my surface is esd safe. Yes, it is their warranty and their right to turn me away as a customer. And it is my right to feel and believe this is how every Sony AS15 acts.

I haven't seen any decent fast skydiving footage from this camera. Even what they put out looks like crap: Sony AS15 Skydiving footage and you can see the pixelation in this video video when the frame changes quickly. Everyone make their own decision, its just not the camera for me and I rather use something else in my arsenal.


mccordia  (D 94775)

Dec 24, 2012, 5:13 PM
Post #95 of 111 (4388 views)
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Re: [trunk] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I haven't seen any decent fast skydiving footage from this camera.

You had a bad experience, we get it. But pushing that hate a bit to far perhaps? No decent footage? Id blame it on user errorTongueWink

Ive been using the Sony camera for both skydiving and base, and getting nothing but killer shots on it.

https://vimeo.com/53244622 - Rodeo doesnt look half bad in colors or sharpness does it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFw-mSK9TnM - Left view is my Sony. Right view is the GoPro. Again. What are you seeing that Im not seeing? Looking at both files in fullres, the Sony does noticeably better in colors and having less issues with burnt out colors.

The next Phoenix-Fly Need4speed video (out in a few days) was also filmed with the Sony for a large part. Whatever issues you're having with the camera, none of the users Ive seen footage from have the issue. The only pixelated issue I see in your examples is people who dont know how to properly export/render stuff for the web without shitloads of compression. For the $199 you get the AS10 for, you dont get a GoPro. And if 'issues' people have are a signal, ask that question about GoPros on a dropzone, and you'll get a dozen people with similar screwups.

In the end, its a plastic action camera 'toy'. If you want real quality, get a proper camera or DSLR. But for the money these things cost, Id say well worth it.


soulbabel

Dec 24, 2012, 6:57 PM
Post #96 of 111 (4365 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

The YouTube video is blocked over copyright issues (in the US at least.)

The only thing I really wish Sony would do for the HDR-AS15/AS10, is to increase the video bitrate. GoPro did this with the Hero2 through a firmware update.

Here's a video that really shows how detail is lost when the scene is too complex:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKUIYlqyRAc
This shows up in the raw video, it's definitely not due to export process. The grass is just too detailed for the maximum bitrate that is allowed.

Your wingsuit video is mostly blue sky, so the compression artifacts aren't really there, however, you can see the compression issue at the end when you are looking at your canopy on the grass. In your case, I think the camera does its job since it gets the wingsuiting footage pretty well and who really cares about looking at grass. If you were freeflying and were transitioning from headdown/headup with a few people on screen, you would definitely see the compression artifacts crop up.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 24, 2012, 7:04 PM
Post #97 of 111 (4360 views)
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Re: [soulbabel] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

in your case, it's dubious that higher bitrate would have fixed the issue. Rolling shutter shows up too, if you snag the video and play it back slow.

All of the cams have issues; I feel I tested them thoroughly (and the review would have been much longer, were there time and space to post every test).

In the case of what Jarno posted, and in the Need For Speed videos, there is constantly changing, high speed shifts in backgrounds, and exceptionally high motion in backgrounds that no skydiving video will ever see. It looks great.

As mentioned in a previous thread, early releases of the camera had some issues; having a prototype, an initial release, and a much later release shows slight differences.

It's pretty rare I'll disagree with Trunk/Mark on his opinions of a camera, but in this one, I disagree entirely, and further, would point out that Trunk is a dealer for GoPro, just as I'm a consultant to Sony Creative Software with some contacts within the Sony Consumer Imaging division. In case it wasn't read earlier, I also pay for my Sony cams, just like everyone else.


trunk  (D 28511)

Dec 25, 2012, 9:17 AM
Post #98 of 111 (4305 views)
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Re: [DSE] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

I do sell some GoPros but I really do not think that biased my opinion of the camera at all.

HYPOXIC makes a lot more money off of the accessories I design for cameras. If I personally felt the AS15 was a good camera for skydiving I would be poised to make a lot of money off of them. For instance I almost had to production a cage for the AS15 which I scraped because I didn't believe in the camera. I also scrapped looking and reverse engineering the serial data coming out of the connector which most likely provides control and feedback i.e. a HYPEYE for the camera.

I feel Sony eventually will have a good solution, I just don't think the AS15 is it. When they release better mounting solutions and pick up the bitrate I feel it is a nice little camera. Besides the blue issue and the bitrate issues, the bottom door cover ripped off right away. Also, I personally have never seem that pixelation on the GP2 or 3 when the frame changes drastically.

I feel the as10/15 may be a great camera for other sports, just not ours. Others may feel differently, that's all.

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays
-Trunk


(This post was edited by trunk on Dec 25, 2012, 9:18 AM)
Attachments: sonyas15case.PNG (281 KB)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 25, 2012, 10:05 AM
Post #99 of 111 (4294 views)
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Re: [trunk] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

Man...I sure wish you'd move forward with that case.
I'd be in for a few.
Jarno, Robi, and I are not having any issues with the cameras at all. Nor are the tandem videographers using them at quite a few DZ's. As mentioned the day you received it, I suspect you got a dud. And I'm still happy to take it upstream for you.
The next gen of the camera isn't terribly different, but having a higher bitrate would certainly be better, especially in low light or panning motion.
However, Robert Pecnik's challenge with the camera is easily the most difficult challenge to throw at any POV cam (smoke, high motion background, static foreground, low contrasts, straight lines).
The footage is amazing.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Dec 27, 2012, 6:38 AM
Post #100 of 111 (4138 views)
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Re: [DSE] Sony Action Cam - GoPro competitor (HDR-AS10 and HDR-AS15) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Man...I sure wish you'd move forward with that case.
I'd be in for a few.
Jarno, Robi, and I are not having any issues with the cameras at all. Nor are the tandem videographers using them at quite a few DZ's. As mentioned the day you received it, I suspect you got a dud. And I'm still happy to take it upstream for you.
The next gen of the camera isn't terribly different, but having a higher bitrate would certainly be better, especially in low light or panning motion.
However, Robert Pecnik's challenge with the camera is easily the most difficult challenge to throw at any POV cam (smoke, high motion background, static foreground, low contrasts, straight lines).
The footage is amazing.

I second that.... I hear many people are using the new cam and I for one would pay for that mount.


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