Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies

 

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frost  (D 25011)

Aug 28, 2012, 7:22 AM
Post #26 of 81 (2403 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
But wait? No one went out this weekend and got a video of them on a Sabre2 150 busting a 600+ foot swoop? I'm shocked!

You shouldn't be. There is a hand full of people IN THE WORLD capable of doing that, even in a competition setting (with all the new canopies, RDS, weights and wingloadings). Your everyday Joe Swooper would be lucky to get 300 feet of swoop - on any given day, on any x-braced canopy, at any wingloading. Still shocked?

In reply to:
What exactly are people trying to convince new jumpers of? That they can swoop just as far as the world record if they just learn the canopy? Or that they can simply bust out a swoop in general on any canopy? or that they should be able to swoop 250ft on a regular canopy? Are we just saying that they'll be a little safer?What are we trying to compare here?

Maybe you need to clearly state your requirements and questions. People are telling you that there are many great pilots who fly larger wings that can and have out swooped mediocre pilots under small high performance wings. If you havent seen that yet, well... look around, jump a little more, get some more knowledge and experience. Come back to this thread in 5 years, post what you've found out.

But meanwhile, here is a personal invite for you and the like-minded to join SoFPiDaRF - the best canopy school in the world, where we tell you EXACTLY what you want to hear. Why? Cause you're a grown ass man and can make your own decisions. Nobody knows your skills better than you.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 28, 2012, 7:35 AM
Post #27 of 81 (2395 views)
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     Re: [frost] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
here is a personal invite for you and the like-minded to join SoFPiDaRF

Power is safety, and always trust your rears. Wink


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 28, 2012, 7:37 AM
Post #28 of 81 (2393 views)
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     Re: [Remster] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

*cough*

* Power first
* Control second
* Safety, a distant 3rd.

NEVER give up the gates, and always trust your rears.

You may now carry on, corrected Smile


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 28, 2012, 8:12 AM
Post #29 of 81 (2380 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I was paraphrasing... Tongue

Jackass! Wink WTF do you know about canopy piloting anyway? Sly


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 28, 2012, 8:19 AM
Post #30 of 81 (2377 views)
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     Re: [Remster] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
Jackass!

Tell me something I don't know Smile


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 28, 2012, 8:21 AM
Post #31 of 81 (2375 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
That looks pretty damn impressive, but we're also well beyond a standard sport canopy loading. 2:1 is nothing that a new'ish jumper would be considering (in most cases i hope).

But wait? No one went out this weekend and got a video of them on a Sabre2 150 busting a 600+ foot swoop? I'm shocked!

There seems to be a lot of claims in this thread but no proof that I would consider competition for an average person who downsized too quickly and didn't learn. Yes, there have been videos posted of large canopies swooping, but nowhere near the distance/speed that seems to be claimed.

What exactly are people trying to convince new jumpers of? That they can swoop just as far as the world record if they just learn the canopy? Or that they can simply bust out a swoop in general on any canopy? or that they should be able to swoop 250ft on a regular canopy? Are we just saying that they'll be a little safer?What are we trying to compare here?

Sorry, some of us have to work to pay for skydives. I did tandems all weekend. I fully intend to work on this concept at some point - but I'm gone at a boogie all weekend and there are too many lunatics at boogies for this kind of thing. Next weekend I have to organize a wingsuit state record (and do tandems), maybe I'll get to it after that.

Sheesh, sorry I couldn't drop everything to impress some dude on the internet with no patience (clearly haha).

Anyways - what is your axe to grind here. The man been keeping you down or something? It looks like you're only doing 125 jumps a year which isn't exactly the type of super currency that I would recommend for people learning to swoop.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 9:08 AM
Post #32 of 81 (2354 views)
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     Re: [Fast] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I have no axe to grind, I just think it's funny to see people telling new jumpers that they don't need a super high performance canopy at jump 10 to impress people. I just wanted to take that one step farther and gather some videos so they can see and think: Damn, that guy with 1000 jumps on that Sabre 2 150 just ripped a huge swoop. I'm gonna try to build to that, and if I'm not coming anywhere close, I'm nowhere near "maxing" out my canopy skills on that canopy.

Basically, one "more" reason to say, you know...if you can't do even remotely this with your canopy...you don't really need to downsize.


As far as "I" go...I admittedly fit into the "downsized too early" category, however I believe that I've taken it slowly and have progressed reasonably well. I make no claim that I am a bad-ass swooper (nor am I trying to be), but I'm happy with my reasonably good "recreational" swooping skills.
*Not that this is ultra impressive, but for someone that was on a Cobalt 105 at 117 jumps, and a Katana 97 at 275, I think I'm doing reasonably well. This video was taken when I had about 360 jumps, (less than 100 on the Katana) and no formal canopy training.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFTc5o1V__Q


(This post was edited by Chris-Ottawa on Aug 28, 2012, 9:09 AM)


d100965  (D 100965)

Aug 28, 2012, 10:06 AM
Post #33 of 81 (2336 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I'm sorry, I can't take it. I didn't want to get involved but I almost bust a rib laughing at your last post.

It took 32 posts on the thread you created before we actually got to the point you wanted to make.

All this just so you could post a video of how awesome you think you were in 2009 doing a downwinder in massive ~5knt winds on a Katana 97 loaded at 1.45. And at only 360 jumps with no coaching.

So basically you are just trying to find out if other videos exist of regular jumpers, on regular canopies busting the swoop as cool as you, so you can show everyone how amazingly talented you think you were and think you still are.

Do you have any videos of your current swoops?

To be fair though, you have bust your own criteria. Even though you are low jumps on a non cross brace at a low-ish wing loading, you are still however jumping a sub 100. (And you had to do it downwind).

If you want to improve your swoop distance then just carry on increasing your wing loading by jumping with that massive chip on your shoulder :-)

I'm guessing people are starting to notice you, hence the massive chip and the axe to grind.

Just to be fair though and to show that I'm a nice guy, here is a video of Brian Vacher swooping a reserve. I hope that's kinda what you were looking for:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3PElZVM9oo


(This post was edited by d100965 on Aug 28, 2012, 10:21 AM)


Bluhdow  (B 37052)

Aug 28, 2012, 10:27 AM
Post #34 of 81 (2324 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
Basically, one "more" reason to say

What?

Quote:
As far as "I" go...

Are you trying to suggest that you aren't really yourself?

I don't think you know how to properly use quotation marks.

That's the only input I have.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 11:50 AM
Post #35 of 81 (2295 views)
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     Re: [d100965] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I was going to write you a nice wordy reply, but then I realized I'd be wasting my time since you clearly can't comprehend what I would have written anyways, so this is all you get. I suggest that you go back and read the whole thread before you make more dumb assumptions. I do however appreciate how threatened/jealous you are of my super massive downwind swoop!

PS: It was ~5kph, not ~5knt...Just saying.


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 28, 2012, 12:41 PM
Post #36 of 81 (2292 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I do however appreciate how threatened/jealous you are of my super massive downwind swoop!

PS: It was ~5kph, not ~5knt...Just saying.

CrazyLaughShockedUnsurePirateSlyUnimpressedAngelicTongueSmileWinkFrownBlushMad *gasp* *choke* (trying to catch my breath here) CoolBlushFrownWinkTongueSmileAngelicShockedLaughSlyPirate

really?


Also - haha at PS....


Anyways - regardless of the inane nature of your bravado, the good that will come from this is that I like the idea and still hope to get some more video of at least me, a not so pro, average dz swooper showing what you can do with basic canopies. if I get around to it anyways Angelic


d100965  (D 100965)

Aug 28, 2012, 12:42 PM
Post #37 of 81 (2290 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Please go ahead and write me a nice wordy reply,
I would certainly welcome the chance to try and comprehend it.
Please don't deny others the chance to read it simply because I have ruined it for myself by making dumb assumptions.
My bad.

p.s. Here's another video for you:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUvCsJTVbG8


5kph=3.10mph=2.7knots, is that right? Tongue


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 12:49 PM
Post #38 of 81 (2283 views)
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     Re: [d100965] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

It's not worth my time to reply to that. Like I said, feel free to go back and read the whole thread.

But back on topic with the thread, that was actually a great clip of the Sabre 210. Thanks!


Oh and Fast...if you didn't realize that was sarcasm...WOW!


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 28, 2012, 12:55 PM
Post #39 of 81 (2277 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Oh and Fast...if you didn't realize that was sarcasm...WOW!

Hey man, it's the internet - sarcasm on here goes over about as well as a bucket full of lead floats. It never ceases to amaze me what people are willing to say.


d100965  (D 100965)

Aug 28, 2012, 1:32 PM
Post #40 of 81 (2258 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I read the whole thread again. I obviously completely misunderstood who you were.
My bad again.

Anyway, here's another video to use as material for the Chris Saindon Canopy School:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv0zEWDYtbc


(This post was edited by d100965 on Aug 28, 2012, 1:36 PM)


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #41 of 81 (2247 views)
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     Re: [d100965] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

If I ignore you, do you just go away?


d100965  (D 100965)

Aug 28, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #42 of 81 (2233 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I've done everything you've asked,
I read the whole thread again and I've posted you 3 links to videos with content you were asking for.

Ah man, you've hurt my feelings.

OK, I won't post anymore. This is the last one.

OK. No bad feelings eh?
Here's another video for you to keep the thread on track:- (think you may know this one already though)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFTc5o1V__Q


DcloudZ  (B 37320)

Aug 28, 2012, 4:44 PM
Post #43 of 81 (2182 views)
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     Re: [d100965] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
p.s. Here's another video for you:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUvCsJTVbG8


Haha that's my mentor at my home DZ Laugh


Morav  (B 10806)

Aug 28, 2012, 10:18 PM
Post #44 of 81 (2131 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

http://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be


I just started 270s this past weekend.
Sabre 2 150 @ 1.37. No intention to down size until I can max this baby out, and improve accuracy.
Cool

I consider my progression already aggressive. Downsizing quicker or changing to a more elliptical canopy would drastically increase the risk, and at what cost? That's the point the experienced guys are trying to make.

You can't swoop broken, and how do you expect to compete ever if you never learned to max out that ol sabre 2.


(This post was edited by Morav on Aug 28, 2012, 10:34 PM)


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 29, 2012, 4:11 AM
Post #45 of 81 (2091 views)
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     Re: [Morav] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Pretty good examples, thanks for sharing! The wingloading is still a bit higher than the average beginner, but within a range which still shows potential on the canopy.

I understand the point that the experienced guys are trying to make, I'm just asking for examples. If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree. I'm just asking for samples for people to see of some decent swoops on a relatively large, lightly loaded canopy. And there are some pretty good examples in this thread now.

I'd still love to see a pro class swooper bust out a swoop on a Sabre/Pilot/Spectre etc with a wingloading within a new jumper range (ie: 1:1 to 1:2).

*I also have no intent to compete at this point, I do it purely for my enjoyment.


(This post was edited by Chris-Ottawa on Aug 29, 2012, 4:12 AM)


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 29, 2012, 4:32 AM
Post #46 of 81 (2084 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
*I also have no intent to compete at this point, I do it purely for my enjoyment.

I said that once.

I also promised my S&TA that I would never do a "hook turn" after a guy hooked it in right before my third jump.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 29, 2012, 5:22 AM
Post #47 of 81 (2074 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree

Thats because you have no idea what goes into being a good canopy pilot. You're entitled to that opinion, however wrong it may be.

Ian


5.samadhi

Aug 29, 2012, 5:28 AM
Post #48 of 81 (2070 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree

Thats because you have no idea what goes into being a good canopy pilot. You're entitled to that opinion, however wrong it may be.

Ian
reread his post, Ian, pretty sure he is saying that he doesnt have the experience to really determine whether its true or not so he'll go along with what the experienced people are saying.

You know, and I am not singling you out by any means Ian, but posters in this forum have a real problem with actually reading posts people are making and responding to the content in the post, rather than laying some template over the person behind the post and misreading them as a result.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Aug 29, 2012, 5:50 AM
Post #49 of 81 (2060 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree. I'm just asking for samples for people to see of some decent swoops on a relatively large, lightly loaded canopy.

You're making several assumptions and errors in your thought process. Nobody is suggesting that anyone learn to swoop from beginning to end on a 'huge' canopy. The suggestion that has been made is that people take their time in downsizing, and that you don't need to be at 'x' WL to start learing to swoop.

The operative word there is 'start' learning to swoop. The suggestion about WL is made with the caveat that the jumper will also follow the proper route to swooping, which involves time spent on pattern work, then straight in landings with some double-front risers, followed by 90 degree turns. All of the above should take several hundred jumps before you have really given it it's due consideration, and all of the above can be done on any size canopy.

There will come a point in your swooping progression where the degree of turn will go up, and a higher WL will become an asset. Lightly loaded canopies don't like to dive or react to riser input as well as a more loaded canopy, and that can present problems with trying to do bigger turns, like 180 or 270+.

The catch is that by the time you get to that point, you should have a couple hundred non-swooping jumps, and a couple hundred jumps split between double-fronts and 90s, and that you would be ready for a canopy better suited toward more advanced swooping.

Quote:
I'd still love to see a pro class swooper bust out a swoop on a Sabre/Pilot/Spectre etc with a wingloading within a new jumper range (ie: 1:1 to 1:2).

Not going to happen for any reason more than just a joke. The reason being that even pro level swoopers know that it takes time to dial in any canopy, and that you cannot expect to be able to just pick up and do a big turn on a new-to-you canopy, especially one that's so far out of the WL range you're used to.

The whole point of this thread appears to be a misunderstanding on your part. While it might be technically possible to swoop a big canopy, the circumstances surroudning it make it unlikely at best. In terms of training, and learning to swoop, a big canopy has it's place for new jumpers who really should be on a big canopy. Provided you have enough experience to begin learning to swoop, and that you follow a sensible progression, your skills and experience will build along the way so your canopy and WL can match your place along the road to high-level swooping.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 29, 2012, 6:28 AM
Post #50 of 81 (2047 views)
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     Re: [5.samadhi] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

You are correct - I totally misread his post.

My apologies, Chris.


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