Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies

 


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 23, 2012, 11:39 AM
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     Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies  

No need to get out your chequebooks...youtube/vimeo links will be fine.

The age old argument that "You can outswoop a swooper on a tiny elliptical by learning how to fly your normal canopy" is frankly a bit of BS. So, let's see it. Post the link to any video you can find that shows a "normal" canopy outswooping an elliptical/xbrace etc...

I'm talking Sabre2, Safire, Pilot, Spectre, whatever...anything other than your standard Xfire, Katana, Velo etc...

Im not doubting that you can bust an awesome swoop on a Sabre2, just looking for god honest swoops that show a standard "sport" canopy keeping pace with the swooping kids.




On that same note, am I the only one who would love to see the PD team host a mini swoop comp restricted to reasonable sized sport canopies? IE: Sabre2 120 minimum, with a pro swooper under the wing. I think that would be pretty damn entertaining.


michalm21  (Student)

Aug 23, 2012, 12:34 PM
Post #2 of 81 (4970 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Scott Miller swooping a 220 Navigator Smile
http://youtu.be/VXbDidEKYho


5.samadhi

Aug 23, 2012, 1:02 PM
Post #3 of 81 (4952 views)
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     Re: [michalm21] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

thats pretty rad what does he initiate that at 250'??? Laugh


Deyan  (D 322)

Aug 23, 2012, 1:32 PM
Post #4 of 81 (4933 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

My favorite one Tongue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU1tHOgdVag

Just for the record.... that's not me Unsure

P.S. This one is not bad neither

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yttmFw4_JOM


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 23, 2012, 1:39 PM
Post #5 of 81 (4923 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The age old argument that "You can outswoop a swooper on a tiny elliptical by learning how to fly your normal canopy" is frankly a bit of BS. So, let's see it. Post the link to any video you can find that shows a "normal" canopy outswooping an elliptical/xbrace etc...

Is that what the argument is? I thought it was, you learn faster on a canopy you can handle and that most people flying a normal canopy to learn can generally out swoop those who rush into a "swooper" canopy.

That said, I likely can out swoop you on a saber 2 120, even if you were jumping a velocity 120. Mostly based on the fact that i have thousands (literally) more swoops than you.

The whole argument is about skill and how fast you can increase that skill based on what you're jumping.

Edit to add, I could consistently (read almost every time) hit 10 ft gates and go 200-300 feet with a saber 1 150. In many varying wind conditions.


(This post was edited by Fast on Aug 23, 2012, 1:40 PM)


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 23, 2012, 1:54 PM
Post #6 of 81 (4910 views)
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     Re: [Fast] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Hey man, I didn't ask you to prove that your dick is bigger, I just asked for some videos of people jumping bigger canopies. There is a tonne of threads on here that tell some noob that they shouldn't downsize, or buy an elliptical because if they learn to fly what they have, they will be better and will be able to "outswoop" a real swooping canopy because they "know how to fly it better". I'm not trying to condone downsizing or buying a velo after 100 jumps, I'm trying to gather some videos so when noobs complain that they've gotten all they can out of their Sabre2 150...they can find this thread, and these videos and be proven that they have not.

I'd love to see Jay M, tear a Sabre2 150 a new asshole...but you know what. It doesn't exist yet we still try to convince noobs that it really is "just as good". Let's show them the capability so they have something to agree with.



Oh and:

Quote:
I likely can out swoop you on a saber 2 120, even if you were jumping a velocity 120

You and I both know that this is a load of crap, but feel free to keep trying to convince people on the interwebz of your uber skillz.


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Aug 23, 2012, 4:50 PM
Post #7 of 81 (4868 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
You and I both know that this is a load of crap, but feel free to keep trying to convince people on the interwebz of your uber skillz.

I'd put all my money on fast. Your 500 jumps ain't shit in the world of swooping!


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 23, 2012, 5:17 PM
Post #8 of 81 (4853 views)
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     Re: [Mr_Polite] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

And the funny thing is that I never said I was the swoop king or that I can go farther etc... Actually, I never even mentioned myself at all. He needed to tell everyone how much of a skygod he is and I simply gave him the opportunity by creating a thread in the swooping forum.

And considering I've never jumped a Velo, I don't doubt that he would beat me. But if he was going against anyone who had an opportunity to mildly familiarize themselves with that Velo, there's not a chance in hell that Fast and his magical Sabre2 120 would come out on top. At least he can sleep tonight knowing that he can beat someone who has zero experience on a wing and 1/6th the number of jumps. I'd be pretty proud too (or not).


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 23, 2012, 5:30 PM
Post #9 of 81 (4845 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

A couple of years ago I started shooting video with a Sabre2 170 for something I was calling "The Everyday Canopy Project." Unfortunately I only got one weekend of footage shot from the jumper's perspective doing some stalls, flat turns and swoops and never got to shooting the footage for the outside perspective. The point was to show what you can do on a normal canopy.

I firmly believe that a "normal" canopy flown at the top of its ability can out perform an open nose 9-cell flown as many jumpers fly them. 9-cells like XF2s and Katanas.

A Sabre2 loaded at 1.7-1.9 won't out swoop a Velo loaded at 2.5 in the right hands. However, I believe you can firmly embarrass many of the wanna-be swoopers who downsized too fast and are behind their canopy's flight.


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Aug 23, 2012, 6:55 PM
Post #10 of 81 (4828 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Cool story.


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Aug 23, 2012, 7:26 PM
Post #11 of 81 (4817 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Here's a couple on a Sabre2 135 loaded at 2:1

http://www.youtube.com/...qcI&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/...oJo&feature=plcp


dragon2  (D 101989)

Aug 24, 2012, 12:33 AM
Post #12 of 81 (4756 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I've seen Bruno Brokken swoop a spectre (120 ?) further than some velos, so yeah, if ya got the skills, Smile


trigger  (D 101390)

Aug 24, 2012, 1:02 AM
Post #13 of 81 (4750 views)
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     Re: [dragon2] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Me to.
Point of contention. At what wing loadingCrazydoes a canopy become hp.
1.4 imo


hillson  (D 33134)

Aug 24, 2012, 5:54 AM
Post #14 of 81 (4707 views)
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     Re: [dragon2] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I've seen Bruno Brokken swoop a spectre (120 ?) further than some velos, so yeah, if ya got the skills, Smile

Tony Hathaway can swoop the shit of of a Spectre, too. The pilot makes the wing etc etc.

Me? I just like watching top pilots do their thing. Laugh


NealFitz  (C 106601)

Aug 24, 2012, 6:22 AM
Post #15 of 81 (4695 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

i watched my FS coach swoop my old Electra 170. had about 12000swoops under his belt. fastest i ever saw that canopy go Laugh


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 24, 2012, 7:56 AM
Post #16 of 81 (4661 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Oh and:

Quote:
I likely can out swoop you on a saber 2 120, even if you were jumping a velocity 120

You and I both know that this is a load of crap, but feel free to keep trying to convince people on the interwebz of your uber skillz.

I'm not trying to prove anything. See the other thread about swooping, I could care less who can swoop better or worse than me, I'm just here trying to have fun. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything there, it's just statements of fact.

With a highly skilled pilot who is equally competent on both canopies, of course they are going to get more performance out of a velocity. No one is arguing that at all. (And that is the point I was making).


Now, if you compare two different people, who are starting out as noobs, at 300 jumps both of them decide to learn swooping. One sticks with the saber2 he has been jumping and downsizes to a 120 and the other switches to a velocity, the guy who sticks with saber class canopy is likely to learn faster and in a much safer manner.

If they both stick with the same canopy, eventually the guy on the velocity is gonna be out swooping him, if he lives that long w/o breaking himself, etc.

It looks something like the attached image.

FWIW, I don't have any jumps on a saber 2 120 either, I just picked that size cause it's the biggest velocity that they make.

You said that you're just asking for video, then claim that I am on here acting Skygod and whatever, trying to prove my uber skills, but clearly you came to this thread with some kind of chip on your shoulder. I mean, I know - I'm an experienced skydiver, we really are just trying to keep everyone down all the time, so that's a lot to compete with. What can I say (/sarcasm/kidding/etc).

Also, I don't actually "know that this is a load of crap" because I generally don't come on the internet to make stuff up, I actually believe in what I was writing.

My wife owns a saber2 120 - I'll see if it fits in my rig. She doesn't swoop so I can't show you any of her hot swoop video. Tongue


(This post was edited by Fast on Aug 24, 2012, 7:57 AM)
Attachments: lc.jpg (17.4 KB)


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 24, 2012, 7:58 AM
Post #17 of 81 (4659 views)
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     Re: [NealFitz] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Thanks so far everyone. I think we can all agree that it's completely possible to bust out a wicked swoop on a "reasonable" canopy.

I'm wondering how willing the pro swoopers would be to film them landing on various canopies. That way, when a noob says, My Spectre is garbage so I want to buy a Stiletto, we they can see that their "landings" are garbage as compared to a swooper on the same canopy.

I really like the videos of the 230's and stuff, but a reasonable canopy loaded above 1.5 really isn't reasonable anymore. We wouldn't tell a student that the canopy is great, but you have to load it at 2.0 to get a wicked swoop. I want to see some pro's swooping the 170+ sizes.

I must say that Scott Miller on the Navigator 230 (220?) was pretty badass.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 24, 2012, 8:12 AM
Post #18 of 81 (4650 views)
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     Re: [Fast] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Thanks Fast, now I will completely agree with you. I agree, in principle, that someone who really learns to fly a reasonable canopy before upgrading will generally do better in the long run. There are some huge factors to consider such as currency, aptitude, and instruction but in principle...yes. As far as friendly competition goes, I would love to duel it out. You on a Sabre 120 and me on a Velo 120. The only difference would be wingloading. I'd load a Velo 120 at 1.25 which I'm certain would result in pretty poor performance.

All I was getting at was that you came on and tried to prove yourself as an awesome swooper (which I don't doubt that you are), but the thread wasn't about who can do what, it was about finding videos that noobs can see which will lead them away from downsizing too quickly.

All this to say, I would LOVE to see a comparison video of your swoops. Seeing what a high performance canopy nets you, with the same jumper on the same size "sport" canopy. I know it will not be the same, but I suspect that it will be pretty impressive. I honestly hope you are able to get this and post some video.


BMFin

Aug 24, 2012, 5:45 PM
Post #19 of 81 (4532 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I agree with Fast. Learning all the fundamentals on a "larger" canopy is recommendable. For example I have seen someone taking all the juice out of a Vengeance 120 and then move straight to Xaos 83 and pretty much start nailing the swoops after a brief adjustment. Someone here might think this sort of downsize is too agressive. However, IMO if you really spend the time to learn that 120, its no problem at all.

IMO if one learns all the principles of swooping with a slower canopy, they can transalate that all later on pretty easily. Then you will have the tool set you need for that canopy.


(This post was edited by BMFin on Aug 24, 2012, 5:47 PM)


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Aug 25, 2012, 8:49 AM
Post #20 of 81 (4472 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

http://youtu.be/xrLAL8jXnak

Not too bad either


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 25, 2012, 9:28 AM
Post #21 of 81 (4468 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Earl Davis Jr just schooled a ton of people on his Sabre 2 120 at Pink Open in Klatovy loaded around 1.8

Super impressed with his skills on a 'big' canopy at a very high level meet.


Decodiver  (D License)

Aug 26, 2012, 2:44 PM
Post #22 of 81 (4325 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hey man, I didn't ask you to prove that your dick is bigger, I just asked for some videos of people jumping bigger canopies. There is a tonne of threads on here that tell some noob that they shouldn't downsize, or buy an elliptical because if they learn to fly what they have, they will be better and will be able to "outswoop" a real swooping canopy because they "know how to fly it better". I'm not trying to condone downsizing or buying a velo after 100 jumps, I'm trying to gather some videos so when noobs complain that they've gotten all they can out of their Sabre2 150...they can find this thread, and these videos and be proven that they have not.

I'd love to see Jay M, tear a Sabre2 150 a new asshole...but you know what. It doesn't exist yet we still try to convince noobs that it really is "just as good". Let's show them the capability so they have something to agree with.



Oh and:

Quote:
I likely can out swoop you on a saber 2 120, even if you were jumping a velocity 120

You and I both know that this is a load of crap, but feel free to keep trying to convince people on the interwebz of your uber skillz.

Yawn..................


frost  (D 25011)

Aug 27, 2012, 9:04 AM
Post #23 of 81 (4229 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy27ORjYBt4

A 270 swoop with a superman thrown in for a good count under a 9 cell Magellan 120 (equivalent of a Sabre-2) @ 2:1. While wearing a wingsuit (extra drag). The camera was set up to film the deployment, hence the unusual POV.

Yes, you CAN outswoop a mediocre swooper on a tiny elliptical by learning how to fly a "normal" canopy well. It's been done many times before.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 6:52 AM
Post #24 of 81 (4031 views)
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     Re: [frost] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

That looks pretty damn impressive, but we're also well beyond a standard sport canopy loading. 2:1 is nothing that a new'ish jumper would be considering (in most cases i hope).

But wait? No one went out this weekend and got a video of them on a Sabre2 150 busting a 600+ foot swoop? I'm shocked!

There seems to be a lot of claims in this thread but no proof that I would consider competition for an average person who downsized too quickly and didn't learn. Yes, there have been videos posted of large canopies swooping, but nowhere near the distance/speed that seems to be claimed.

What exactly are people trying to convince new jumpers of? That they can swoop just as far as the world record if they just learn the canopy? Or that they can simply bust out a swoop in general on any canopy? or that they should be able to swoop 250ft on a regular canopy? Are we just saying that they'll be a little safer?What are we trying to compare here?


(This post was edited by Chris-Ottawa on Aug 28, 2012, 6:56 AM)


excaza  (C License)

Aug 28, 2012, 7:06 AM
Post #25 of 81 (4022 views)
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     Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quite an axe to grind.


frost  (D 25011)

Aug 28, 2012, 7:22 AM
Post #26 of 81 (2419 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
But wait? No one went out this weekend and got a video of them on a Sabre2 150 busting a 600+ foot swoop? I'm shocked!

You shouldn't be. There is a hand full of people IN THE WORLD capable of doing that, even in a competition setting (with all the new canopies, RDS, weights and wingloadings). Your everyday Joe Swooper would be lucky to get 300 feet of swoop - on any given day, on any x-braced canopy, at any wingloading. Still shocked?

In reply to:
What exactly are people trying to convince new jumpers of? That they can swoop just as far as the world record if they just learn the canopy? Or that they can simply bust out a swoop in general on any canopy? or that they should be able to swoop 250ft on a regular canopy? Are we just saying that they'll be a little safer?What are we trying to compare here?

Maybe you need to clearly state your requirements and questions. People are telling you that there are many great pilots who fly larger wings that can and have out swooped mediocre pilots under small high performance wings. If you havent seen that yet, well... look around, jump a little more, get some more knowledge and experience. Come back to this thread in 5 years, post what you've found out.

But meanwhile, here is a personal invite for you and the like-minded to join SoFPiDaRF - the best canopy school in the world, where we tell you EXACTLY what you want to hear. Why? Cause you're a grown ass man and can make your own decisions. Nobody knows your skills better than you.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 28, 2012, 7:35 AM
Post #27 of 81 (2411 views)
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     Re: [frost] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
here is a personal invite for you and the like-minded to join SoFPiDaRF

Power is safety, and always trust your rears. Wink


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 28, 2012, 7:37 AM
Post #28 of 81 (2409 views)
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     Re: [Remster] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

*cough*

* Power first
* Control second
* Safety, a distant 3rd.

NEVER give up the gates, and always trust your rears.

You may now carry on, corrected Smile


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 28, 2012, 8:12 AM
Post #29 of 81 (2396 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I was paraphrasing... Tongue

Jackass! Wink WTF do you know about canopy piloting anyway? Sly


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 28, 2012, 8:19 AM
Post #30 of 81 (2393 views)
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     Re: [Remster] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
Jackass!

Tell me something I don't know Smile


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 28, 2012, 8:21 AM
Post #31 of 81 (2391 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
That looks pretty damn impressive, but we're also well beyond a standard sport canopy loading. 2:1 is nothing that a new'ish jumper would be considering (in most cases i hope).

But wait? No one went out this weekend and got a video of them on a Sabre2 150 busting a 600+ foot swoop? I'm shocked!

There seems to be a lot of claims in this thread but no proof that I would consider competition for an average person who downsized too quickly and didn't learn. Yes, there have been videos posted of large canopies swooping, but nowhere near the distance/speed that seems to be claimed.

What exactly are people trying to convince new jumpers of? That they can swoop just as far as the world record if they just learn the canopy? Or that they can simply bust out a swoop in general on any canopy? or that they should be able to swoop 250ft on a regular canopy? Are we just saying that they'll be a little safer?What are we trying to compare here?

Sorry, some of us have to work to pay for skydives. I did tandems all weekend. I fully intend to work on this concept at some point - but I'm gone at a boogie all weekend and there are too many lunatics at boogies for this kind of thing. Next weekend I have to organize a wingsuit state record (and do tandems), maybe I'll get to it after that.

Sheesh, sorry I couldn't drop everything to impress some dude on the internet with no patience (clearly haha).

Anyways - what is your axe to grind here. The man been keeping you down or something? It looks like you're only doing 125 jumps a year which isn't exactly the type of super currency that I would recommend for people learning to swoop.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 9:08 AM
Post #32 of 81 (2370 views)
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     Re: [Fast] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I have no axe to grind, I just think it's funny to see people telling new jumpers that they don't need a super high performance canopy at jump 10 to impress people. I just wanted to take that one step farther and gather some videos so they can see and think: Damn, that guy with 1000 jumps on that Sabre 2 150 just ripped a huge swoop. I'm gonna try to build to that, and if I'm not coming anywhere close, I'm nowhere near "maxing" out my canopy skills on that canopy.

Basically, one "more" reason to say, you know...if you can't do even remotely this with your canopy...you don't really need to downsize.


As far as "I" go...I admittedly fit into the "downsized too early" category, however I believe that I've taken it slowly and have progressed reasonably well. I make no claim that I am a bad-ass swooper (nor am I trying to be), but I'm happy with my reasonably good "recreational" swooping skills.
*Not that this is ultra impressive, but for someone that was on a Cobalt 105 at 117 jumps, and a Katana 97 at 275, I think I'm doing reasonably well. This video was taken when I had about 360 jumps, (less than 100 on the Katana) and no formal canopy training.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFTc5o1V__Q


(This post was edited by Chris-Ottawa on Aug 28, 2012, 9:09 AM)


d100965  (D 100965)

Aug 28, 2012, 10:06 AM
Post #33 of 81 (2352 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I'm sorry, I can't take it. I didn't want to get involved but I almost bust a rib laughing at your last post.

It took 32 posts on the thread you created before we actually got to the point you wanted to make.

All this just so you could post a video of how awesome you think you were in 2009 doing a downwinder in massive ~5knt winds on a Katana 97 loaded at 1.45. And at only 360 jumps with no coaching.

So basically you are just trying to find out if other videos exist of regular jumpers, on regular canopies busting the swoop as cool as you, so you can show everyone how amazingly talented you think you were and think you still are.

Do you have any videos of your current swoops?

To be fair though, you have bust your own criteria. Even though you are low jumps on a non cross brace at a low-ish wing loading, you are still however jumping a sub 100. (And you had to do it downwind).

If you want to improve your swoop distance then just carry on increasing your wing loading by jumping with that massive chip on your shoulder :-)

I'm guessing people are starting to notice you, hence the massive chip and the axe to grind.

Just to be fair though and to show that I'm a nice guy, here is a video of Brian Vacher swooping a reserve. I hope that's kinda what you were looking for:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3PElZVM9oo


(This post was edited by d100965 on Aug 28, 2012, 10:21 AM)


Bluhdow  (B 37052)

Aug 28, 2012, 10:27 AM
Post #34 of 81 (2340 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
Basically, one "more" reason to say

What?

Quote:
As far as "I" go...

Are you trying to suggest that you aren't really yourself?

I don't think you know how to properly use quotation marks.

That's the only input I have.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 11:50 AM
Post #35 of 81 (2311 views)
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     Re: [d100965] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I was going to write you a nice wordy reply, but then I realized I'd be wasting my time since you clearly can't comprehend what I would have written anyways, so this is all you get. I suggest that you go back and read the whole thread before you make more dumb assumptions. I do however appreciate how threatened/jealous you are of my super massive downwind swoop!

PS: It was ~5kph, not ~5knt...Just saying.


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 28, 2012, 12:41 PM
Post #36 of 81 (2308 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I do however appreciate how threatened/jealous you are of my super massive downwind swoop!

PS: It was ~5kph, not ~5knt...Just saying.

CrazyLaughShockedUnsurePirateSlyUnimpressedAngelicTongueSmileWinkFrownBlushMad *gasp* *choke* (trying to catch my breath here) CoolBlushFrownWinkTongueSmileAngelicShockedLaughSlyPirate

really?


Also - haha at PS....


Anyways - regardless of the inane nature of your bravado, the good that will come from this is that I like the idea and still hope to get some more video of at least me, a not so pro, average dz swooper showing what you can do with basic canopies. if I get around to it anyways Angelic


d100965  (D 100965)

Aug 28, 2012, 12:42 PM
Post #37 of 81 (2306 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Please go ahead and write me a nice wordy reply,
I would certainly welcome the chance to try and comprehend it.
Please don't deny others the chance to read it simply because I have ruined it for myself by making dumb assumptions.
My bad.

p.s. Here's another video for you:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUvCsJTVbG8


5kph=3.10mph=2.7knots, is that right? Tongue


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 12:49 PM
Post #38 of 81 (2299 views)
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     Re: [d100965] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

It's not worth my time to reply to that. Like I said, feel free to go back and read the whole thread.

But back on topic with the thread, that was actually a great clip of the Sabre 210. Thanks!


Oh and Fast...if you didn't realize that was sarcasm...WOW!


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 28, 2012, 12:55 PM
Post #39 of 81 (2293 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Oh and Fast...if you didn't realize that was sarcasm...WOW!

Hey man, it's the internet - sarcasm on here goes over about as well as a bucket full of lead floats. It never ceases to amaze me what people are willing to say.


d100965  (D 100965)

Aug 28, 2012, 1:32 PM
Post #40 of 81 (2274 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I read the whole thread again. I obviously completely misunderstood who you were.
My bad again.

Anyway, here's another video to use as material for the Chris Saindon Canopy School:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv0zEWDYtbc


(This post was edited by d100965 on Aug 28, 2012, 1:36 PM)


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 28, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #41 of 81 (2263 views)
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     Re: [d100965] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

If I ignore you, do you just go away?


d100965  (D 100965)

Aug 28, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #42 of 81 (2249 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I've done everything you've asked,
I read the whole thread again and I've posted you 3 links to videos with content you were asking for.

Ah man, you've hurt my feelings.

OK, I won't post anymore. This is the last one.

OK. No bad feelings eh?
Here's another video for you to keep the thread on track:- (think you may know this one already though)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFTc5o1V__Q


DcloudZ  (B 37320)

Aug 28, 2012, 4:44 PM
Post #43 of 81 (2198 views)
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     Re: [d100965] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
p.s. Here's another video for you:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUvCsJTVbG8


Haha that's my mentor at my home DZ Laugh


Morav  (B 10806)

Aug 28, 2012, 10:18 PM
Post #44 of 81 (2147 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

http://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be


I just started 270s this past weekend.
Sabre 2 150 @ 1.37. No intention to down size until I can max this baby out, and improve accuracy.
Cool

I consider my progression already aggressive. Downsizing quicker or changing to a more elliptical canopy would drastically increase the risk, and at what cost? That's the point the experienced guys are trying to make.

You can't swoop broken, and how do you expect to compete ever if you never learned to max out that ol sabre 2.


(This post was edited by Morav on Aug 28, 2012, 10:34 PM)


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 29, 2012, 4:11 AM
Post #45 of 81 (2107 views)
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     Re: [Morav] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Pretty good examples, thanks for sharing! The wingloading is still a bit higher than the average beginner, but within a range which still shows potential on the canopy.

I understand the point that the experienced guys are trying to make, I'm just asking for examples. If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree. I'm just asking for samples for people to see of some decent swoops on a relatively large, lightly loaded canopy. And there are some pretty good examples in this thread now.

I'd still love to see a pro class swooper bust out a swoop on a Sabre/Pilot/Spectre etc with a wingloading within a new jumper range (ie: 1:1 to 1:2).

*I also have no intent to compete at this point, I do it purely for my enjoyment.


(This post was edited by Chris-Ottawa on Aug 29, 2012, 4:12 AM)


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 29, 2012, 4:32 AM
Post #46 of 81 (2100 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
*I also have no intent to compete at this point, I do it purely for my enjoyment.

I said that once.

I also promised my S&TA that I would never do a "hook turn" after a guy hooked it in right before my third jump.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 29, 2012, 5:22 AM
Post #47 of 81 (2090 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree

Thats because you have no idea what goes into being a good canopy pilot. You're entitled to that opinion, however wrong it may be.

Ian


5.samadhi

Aug 29, 2012, 5:28 AM
Post #48 of 81 (2086 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree

Thats because you have no idea what goes into being a good canopy pilot. You're entitled to that opinion, however wrong it may be.

Ian
reread his post, Ian, pretty sure he is saying that he doesnt have the experience to really determine whether its true or not so he'll go along with what the experienced people are saying.

You know, and I am not singling you out by any means Ian, but posters in this forum have a real problem with actually reading posts people are making and responding to the content in the post, rather than laying some template over the person behind the post and misreading them as a result.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Aug 29, 2012, 5:50 AM
Post #49 of 81 (2076 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree. I'm just asking for samples for people to see of some decent swoops on a relatively large, lightly loaded canopy.

You're making several assumptions and errors in your thought process. Nobody is suggesting that anyone learn to swoop from beginning to end on a 'huge' canopy. The suggestion that has been made is that people take their time in downsizing, and that you don't need to be at 'x' WL to start learing to swoop.

The operative word there is 'start' learning to swoop. The suggestion about WL is made with the caveat that the jumper will also follow the proper route to swooping, which involves time spent on pattern work, then straight in landings with some double-front risers, followed by 90 degree turns. All of the above should take several hundred jumps before you have really given it it's due consideration, and all of the above can be done on any size canopy.

There will come a point in your swooping progression where the degree of turn will go up, and a higher WL will become an asset. Lightly loaded canopies don't like to dive or react to riser input as well as a more loaded canopy, and that can present problems with trying to do bigger turns, like 180 or 270+.

The catch is that by the time you get to that point, you should have a couple hundred non-swooping jumps, and a couple hundred jumps split between double-fronts and 90s, and that you would be ready for a canopy better suited toward more advanced swooping.

Quote:
I'd still love to see a pro class swooper bust out a swoop on a Sabre/Pilot/Spectre etc with a wingloading within a new jumper range (ie: 1:1 to 1:2).

Not going to happen for any reason more than just a joke. The reason being that even pro level swoopers know that it takes time to dial in any canopy, and that you cannot expect to be able to just pick up and do a big turn on a new-to-you canopy, especially one that's so far out of the WL range you're used to.

The whole point of this thread appears to be a misunderstanding on your part. While it might be technically possible to swoop a big canopy, the circumstances surroudning it make it unlikely at best. In terms of training, and learning to swoop, a big canopy has it's place for new jumpers who really should be on a big canopy. Provided you have enough experience to begin learning to swoop, and that you follow a sensible progression, your skills and experience will build along the way so your canopy and WL can match your place along the road to high-level swooping.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 29, 2012, 6:28 AM
Post #50 of 81 (2063 views)
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     Re: [5.samadhi] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

You are correct - I totally misread his post.

My apologies, Chris.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Aug 29, 2012, 7:30 AM
Post #51 of 81 (2466 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Hey Dave,

I'm not saying at all that anyone should stay on a large canopy for ever. I was just hoping to come up with some videos to "prove" to newer jumpers that figure they NEED to downsize/go elliptical in order to swoop. I wanted to be able to come up with some videos that showed average people swooping average canopies (at reasonable wingloadings) to give them something to work towards. A reason NOT to downsize sooner.

I have no idea how this has turned into me calling out swoopers saying that they "can't" swoop a large canopy. I'm very simply asking them to share it for the benefit of newer jumpers.

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with me trying to change anything about me. I'm on a small canopy, and I don't forsee myself changing that at this point. I just hate reading thread after thread where experienced jumpers try to convince new jumpers that their Sabre2 170 will last them 500 jumps and they should be able to rip an awesome swoop before even remotely considering downsizing. I'm not saying it won't last them 500 jumps, I'm just saying that we should be able to show them that their swoops really aren't anything more than a quick landing, and it will encourage them to work harder at learning to fly the canopy before downsizing.

I'm trying to do some good, but it seems to keep being turned around on me that I'm trying to indicate that I'm some sort of prodigy and the rules don't apply to me. I am not AT ALL trying to do any of that. I realize I'm not an ace swooper, I'm an average joe that downsized quickly and I am nothing more that that.

Does anyone understand what I'm trying to get out of this thread or is it completely off the wall?

@Ian - It's all good...


DocPop  (C License)

Aug 29, 2012, 8:57 AM
Post #52 of 81 (2438 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I don't think many people do what you are looking for (ie. want to swoop but stay on a big canopy until they are ripping 270s) partly because it is the wrong tool for the job.

Don't get me wrong - it is VITAL to learn the basics (flying a pattern, flare timing, use of all control inputs) on a bigger, more forgiving canopy, but once people start getting into 180+ turns, there is something to be said for using a canopy, and a WL, that the manufacturers have designed for the job.

None of the above means that it is not possible to swoop a bigger, more docile wing - I am just saying that if people want more speed, it is much easier to obtain through downsizing and most people go that route.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Aug 29, 2012, 9:03 AM
Post #53 of 81 (2437 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The age old argument that "You can outswoop a swooper on a tiny elliptical by learning how to fly your normal canopy"



I've never heard that - and I'm age old.


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 29, 2012, 2:39 PM
Post #54 of 81 (2383 views)
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     Re: [DocPop] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I don't think many people do what you are looking for (ie. want to swoop but stay on a big canopy until they are ripping 270s) partly because it is the wrong tool for the job.

I stayed on my old Heatwave 170 well into the 270 deg turn progression. Sold it after a few hundred jumps on it and bought a XF2 149, was doing 270s on that until I sold it after another few hundred jumps and bought a Velo 120. Same thing until I bought a Velo 111.

I will tell you with the Heatwave and also with Stilettos I was jumping of the same size, you can max out the speed of the canopy to where it won't fly flat in the swoop any more. It'll actually climb out after the dive. Although I will admit that it was a peculiar case since I loaded the 170 at 1.7.

I don't have any video of it, but I do have this picture from 2002-ish on that canopy.

The point is there are people out there making larger turns on big canopies, even though it isn't the norm.


(This post was edited by AggieDave on Aug 29, 2012, 3:03 PM)
Attachments: swooooooop-2.jpg (32.2 KB)


DocPop  (C License)

Aug 29, 2012, 5:17 PM
Post #55 of 81 (2351 views)
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     Re: [AggieDave] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
I don't think many people do what you are looking for (ie. want to swoop but stay on a big canopy until they are ripping 270s) partly because it is the wrong tool for the job.

I stayed on my old Heatwave 170 well into the 270 deg turn progression. Sold it after a few hundred jumps on it and bought a XF2 149, was doing 270s on that until I sold it after another few hundred jumps and bought a Velo 120. Same thing until I bought a Velo 111.

I will tell you with the Heatwave and also with Stilettos I was jumping of the same size, you can max out the speed of the canopy to where it won't fly flat in the swoop any more. It'll actually climb out after the dive. Although I will admit that it was a peculiar case since I loaded the 170 at 1.7.

I don't have any video of it, but I do have this picture from 2002-ish on that canopy.

The point is there are people out there making larger turns on big canopies, even though it isn't the norm.

That is kind of an exceptional case due to your loading, but kind of proves my point really. You learned 270s on an elliptical loaded at 1.7 - that's what I am doing but mine happens to be a KA120 which would be regarded (these days at least) as more of a swooping canopy.

Nice pic BTW - certainly gives an impression of the speed!


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 29, 2012, 5:34 PM
Post #56 of 81 (2343 views)
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     Re: [DocPop] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
That is kind of an exceptional case due to your loading, but kind of proves my point really. You learned 270s on an elliptical loaded at 1.7 - that's what I am doing but mine happens to be a KA120 which would be regarded (these days at least) as more of a swooping canopy.

Nice pic BTW - certainly gives an impression of the speed!

A 170 loaded at 1.7 is a different animal than a 120 loaded at 1.7. Drag and line length, etc.

Still a no-shit wingloading no matter if it is a 120 or a 320.


DocPop  (C License)

Aug 29, 2012, 5:45 PM
Post #57 of 81 (2340 views)
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     Re: [AggieDave] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
A 170 loaded at 1.7 is a different animal than a 120 loaded at 1.7. Drag and line length, etc.

Still a no-shit wingloading no matter if it is a 120 or a 320.

Totally agree.


Martini  (D 23756)

Aug 29, 2012, 5:56 PM
Post #58 of 81 (2336 views)
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     Re: [AggieDave] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
I will tell you with the Heatwave and also with Stilettos I was jumping of the same size, you can max out the speed of the canopy to where it won't fly flat in the swoop any more. It'll actually climb out after the dive.

Otherwise known as a pop-n-drop.


5.samadhi

Aug 29, 2012, 8:32 PM
Post #59 of 81 (2312 views)
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     Re: [DocPop] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I don't think many people do what you are looking for (ie. want to swoop but stay on a big canopy until they are ripping 270s) partly because it is the wrong tool for the job.

Don't get me wrong - it is VITAL to learn the basics (flying a pattern, flare timing, use of all control inputs) on a bigger, more forgiving canopy, but once people start getting into 180+ turns, there is something to be said for using a canopy, and a WL, that the manufacturers have designed for the job.

None of the above means that it is not possible to swoop a bigger, more docile wing - I am just saying that if people want more speed, it is much easier to obtain through downsizing and most people go that route.
Chriss, this is the kind of poster that you are attempting to target - ie novice swooper - and look how quickly he disregarded the persuasion or 'force' of the video evidence.

All that hard work in this thread for nothing Sly


f94sbu  (D 16017)

Aug 30, 2012, 11:45 AM
Post #60 of 81 (2213 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
Jackass!

Tell me something I don't know Smile

How many jumps a competition lineset can handle? Cool


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 30, 2012, 12:35 PM
Post #61 of 81 (2195 views)
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     Re: [f94sbu] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

Well played, sir Smile


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Aug 30, 2012, 12:36 PM)


f94sbu  (D 16017)

Aug 30, 2012, 1:35 PM
Post #62 of 81 (2178 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Thank you, Sir!


Guinness_fr  (D 109579)

Aug 31, 2012, 7:20 AM
Post #63 of 81 (2078 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Totally off topic but this reminds me that I wanted to ask if anyone had already measured the number of Gs that we are pulling in competition during our turns and compared them with the Gs we can get on very soft openings (hop & pop right out the door of a slow flying PAC750 for example).

I'm asking because imagine that you had had a very very soft opening on that particular jump and that the lines got actually stressed during the turn (or the recovery), I would have hated to witness what you experienced lower to the ground Pirate scary stuff...


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 31, 2012, 7:51 AM
Post #64 of 81 (2072 views)
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     Re: [Guinness_fr] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Quote:
I'm asking because imagine that you had had a very very soft opening on that particular jump and that the lines got actually stressed during the turn (or the recovery), I would have hated to witness what you experienced lower to the ground Pirate scary stuff...

Marat went through that a couple of years ago, but he had seriously worn 300 HMA lines and a higher exit weight. He got hurt but he got lucky too in that he wasn't more hurt than he was.

That is also why I never went to 300 HMA lines, with my exit weight I stayed with the 500s. Using empirical measurements I think my exit weight is roughly 2.25 Ian Drennans or roughly .85 Big Steves.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 31, 2012, 8:00 AM
Post #65 of 81 (2067 views)
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     Re: [Guinness_fr] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

While always a concern (breaking in a turn) the lines are far, far more likely to break on opening.

That said it did happen to Marat who, like Dave said, had extremely worn lines.

I knew the line replacement time was drawing close, and tried to squeak one last comp out of them (Poor decision on my part in retrospect) but I attribute my breakage to older lines and also having 2 REALLY REALLY hard openings the day before. I think those openings were the beginning of the end for them.

Ian


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Aug 31, 2012, 8:00 AM)


DocPop  (C License)

Aug 31, 2012, 9:34 AM
Post #66 of 81 (2043 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I attribute my breakage to older lines and also having 2 REALLY REALLY hard openings the day before. I think those openings were the beginning of the end for them.

Ian

Do you think the hard openings had anything to do with worn lines?

I am not sure if that happens with HMA, but I'd be interested in your opinion.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 31, 2012, 11:24 AM
Post #67 of 81 (2011 views)
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     Re: [DocPop] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I honestly have no idea. I've never seen my openings deteriorate with line age (just with my shitty packing) :)


cocheese  (D 24000)

Sep 1, 2012, 5:38 PM
Post #68 of 81 (1922 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I try not to laugh when people compliment my shitty swoops on my 150. I know it's a loud tuna boat, but it floats my fat ass to a happy ending. I swear I get ground effect some times.Cool


Morav  (B 10806)

Sep 3, 2012, 1:03 PM
Post #69 of 81 (1828 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Hey Chris,

I think the reason you are getting flamed is because you are missing the point.

Staying on a larger canopy allows you to build survival skills and good habits that are needed to have a successful jumping career on smaller more HP canopies. Comparing swoops between normal canopies and HP ones is pointless. A Sabre or Safire load at X WL has terminal velocity, they can only go so fast. Learning how to tap into that speed *safely*, and having consistent accuracy is where you really start learning. Things happen relatively slower on "normal" canopies which allow you to figure out how to make them go faster By skipping steps you really increase the risk, and it's likely the canopies flying you, and you'r just hanging on!

I've been trying to fly the shit of of my Sabre2 150 to the point my arms are hurting right now typing, and I still feel there's tonnes to learn.

And to prove my point I flew a Katana 120 loaded about about 1.71 and did a 90 on my first jump. :P What did I learn? They're built to go fast! and if I owned one I'd really increase my chance of getting hurt.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LypjMvZrrbs
Flame away.


(This post was edited by Morav on Sep 3, 2012, 6:22 PM)


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Sep 4, 2012, 1:14 PM
Post #70 of 81 (1701 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I learned almost all of what I know about swooping on a sabre2 170 and 150 it can be done. That being said since I know fly a 109 and 96 (when I am around) my muscle memory is a bit rusty on the bigger canopies... But there was quite a while where I embarrassed some velo pilots at the local dz (not the ranch) by out swooping their velos with a 129 Xfire 2.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Sep 7, 2012, 11:31 AM
Post #71 of 81 (1569 views)
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     Re: [Morav] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I'm not even going to try and explain myself for the 6th time. I'm not missing the point, the readers are missing the point. I'm not after any form of approval for anything I'm doing, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but you're completely missing 'MY" point. Everyone is too caught up in trying to shit on people on dz.com to actually try to read what is being written.

Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled program. I think there's a couple new posts for the canopy nazi's to try and fight over who gets the first post. Hurry along!


5.samadhi

Sep 7, 2012, 8:48 PM
Post #72 of 81 (1498 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

^ its a bit like hitting your head against a brick wall isnt it?

My advice for you Chris: Just have fun in this forum and talk about what canopy is good or whatever. Don't try to have any substantive conversation its pretty much worthless.

Don't you spend enough time talking to retarded people through work and life in general to get your fill? I know I do! Sly


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Sep 8, 2012, 12:06 AM
Post #73 of 81 (1481 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

No, thanks for posting - some of the video responses were cool. Smile


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Sep 8, 2012, 9:18 AM
Post #74 of 81 (1449 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

I don't need to post a fucking video. I swooped professionally on the PST tour for five years, but I routinely swap back and forth from my AFF/swoop/work rig with a Xaos 27 80 and my wingsuit rig with a Sabre2 97 with HMA and a full RDS. I can tell you, without hesitation, that my best freestyle canopy is the Sabre2. It's much more controllable for one-handed tricks and it opens good. I land it to a complete stop 90% of the time on rears only.

Chuck


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Sep 8, 2012, 6:43 PM
Post #75 of 81 (1388 views)
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     Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

[GOLFCLAP]You sir just made the greatest case of how egotistical skydivers can be. [/GOLFCLAP]

Pro swoop tour for 5 years, a Sabre2 with HMA AND a FULL RDS, I'm truly impressed! Not just a removable slider, but a full RDS! I stand down...you sir are the most bestest swooper in the world!

As much as I'd like to let your ego stew in itself, I figure I should break the bad news. The thread never asked you to prove anything. It's asking for you to post videos to help NEW jumpers from wanting to downsize so soon. You know...help others and help the sport?

Nothing personal Chuck, but you've gotta honestly admit, you're post was pretty "self proclaiming" for no reason. Maybe stopping at 5 years on the PST would have sufficed, but going on about your Sabre2 97 with HMA and a FULL RDS, your 80sq ft AFF/work/swoop rig and your one handed rear riser 90% of the time completely stopped landings...that makes me giggle. Completely unnecessary for anything other than making a point of how great you are on the interweb.

Come on people...read the thread instead of just pouncing for no reason. This isn't about me or you, it's to help newer jumpers.


AggieDave  (D License)

Sep 8, 2012, 7:07 PM
Post #76 of 81 (767 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Some day you're going to recall this dick swinging contest of a thread and be really embarrassed about how you acted.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Sep 8, 2012, 7:25 PM
Post #77 of 81 (763 views)
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     Re: [AggieDave] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Hey man...if someone makes a post like that and can't handle the fallout, it's not my problem. Chuck completely missed the point of the thread and opted to post his resume for everyone to oogle instead. I called it, that's all.

But it's ok for the pro swoopers to shit on everyone with less jumps than them because they know anyone with under 8 million jumps has no respect on the internet. To me...that's a good thing. I'm ok without being "that guy that everyone on the internet knows". You know?


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Sep 8, 2012, 7:43 PM
Post #78 of 81 (759 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hey man...if someone makes a post like that and can't handle the fallout, it's not my problem. Chuck completely missed the point of the thread and opted to post his resume for everyone to oogle instead. I called it, that's all.

But it's ok for the pro swoopers to shit on everyone with less jumps than them because they know anyone with under 8 million jumps has no respect on the internet. To me...that's a good thing. I'm ok without being "that guy that everyone on the internet knows". You know?

I hope you are tall, so it's even funnier when chuck kicks your ass.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Sep 8, 2012, 8:03 PM
Post #79 of 81 (754 views)
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     Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Ok everyone. That's enough.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Sep 9, 2012, 7:29 AM
Post #80 of 81 (717 views)
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     Re: [ianmdrennan] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

Fucking idiots. No WONDER I quit being a moderator after eight years of this drivel. PS: my resume is outstanding and I don't have any metal in my legs, IAN.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Sep 9, 2012, 8:32 AM
Post #81 of 81 (701 views)
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     Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Put your money where your mouth is - Swooping "Normal" canopies [In reply to]  

And now I'm locking the thread.

Chuck check your attitude as well.



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