Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
So I want to swoop...

 

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Premier skybytch  (D License)

Aug 23, 2012, 6:15 AM
Post #51 of 88 (4889 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Please don't tell me or anyone else that I need more 'experience' or 'x amount of jump numbers' to start swooping.

Well, heck. Why bother asking then? Just go buy a Velo and start swooping. How hard can it be?

If you want to swoop and survive, first go reread what AggieDave posted. Five or six times. Buy Brian Germain's book. Read it every night. Find a canopy coach and give them lots of money to teach you the finer points. Jump, jump, jump, jump.

And keep the attitude that comes across in the above quote to yourself. Most very experienced jumpers (ie ones who you probably don't like cuz they're just trying to keep you down) will happily find someone else to help once they realize that you have no respect for the years and money they put into learning the things they could teach you.


DivingWombat  (B License)

Aug 23, 2012, 7:51 AM
Post #52 of 88 (4870 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think there is nothing to add on this thread.
AggieDave explained you more than well how to progress within the next 100-300 jumps. That should be THE answer on your question.
Your post about "experience" and "holding you back" was useless and you put yourself in the corner.

I really hope you will find the right way to progress without the need of a wheelchair.


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Aug 23, 2012, 10:32 AM
Post #53 of 88 (4842 views)
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Re: [DivingWombat] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Reading through this thread, there seems to be a number of people who think I want to be swooping now. It's all very well telling me to listen to advice, but I'm not going to listen to people who won't even read my posts first, sorry. These are very much the reactions I would have expected in a 'look at me I'm really good at swooping' thread. Telling me I'm going to kill myself if I continue jumping a Triathlon 210 doesn't really make sense either.


hokierower  (B 36150)

Aug 23, 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #54 of 88 (4821 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Reading through this thread, there seems to be a number of people who think I want to be swooping now. It's all very well telling me to listen to advice, but I'm not going to listen to people who won't even read my posts first, sorry. These are very much the reactions I would have expected in a 'look at me I'm really good at swooping' thread. Telling me I'm going to kill myself if I continue jumping a Triathlon 210 doesn't really make sense either.

Seriously? First off dude, the subject of this thread that YOU created is "So I want to swoop...". Secondly, you ask in the OP for things to occupy for the next 100 or so jumps. Dave gave a FULL and COMPLETE list of things for you to look into and several posters applauded him and thanked him for it (I missed out...thanks Dave, awesome list). You responded to one of those responses by literally flipping everyone the bird and telling us that "experience needed" is bullshit and that advanced manuevers don't require experience.

And you think that Dave, Dave, Fast, & DocPop are the assholes? Take a fucking chillpill and look in the mirror.

Personally, I'm sitting at about 230 jumps right now. I jump a Sabre2 150. I jumped from full altitude for the first time in two months last weekend. Before that I was only doing low passes because I feel it's selfish to try and work on HP manuvers when there's a sky full of people. I've been to two multiple day coaching courses this year alone, the first in March with Greg Windmiller and the second in July with Jessica Edgeington & Flight-1. The course with Greg literally blew my mind. I learned things that I would never have picked up on using trial and error and I bet he literally saved me a hundred jumps of "figuring it out". Jessica watched me for two (TWO) HP landings and gave me pointers which I'm still working on. She told me to bump up my IP by 20' because my canopy was recovering low. It looked fine to me as I was coming in, but I don't have the EXPERIENCE to properly judge it. I tried it her way the next time and I got a better and CLEANER swoop because I was letting my canopy naturally recover.

In my canopy progression, at the moment the turn isn't even my main concern at this point. Trying to nail down a solid pattern and being able to adjust it based upon wind conditions is hard as shit. Adjusting my turn to base due to a crosswind or stretching/shrinking my downwind because of a tailwind/headwind are more difficult than you can imagine because they are something that requires EXPERIENCE to build a proper sight picture. I know my IP and try to hit it religously, but if something doesn't feel right, I abort. I can perform my 90, get a righteous swoop, and feel awesome as soon as I hit the ground, but I instantly start critiquing myself because of the crappy pattern I may have flown.

Listen, you don't know what you don't know, but we've all been in that position. Take the list Dave gave you, and work on it. I'm in construction management and know how important a strong foundation is when building something down the road.


(This post was edited by hokierower on Aug 23, 2012, 11:59 AM)


trigger  (D 101390)

Aug 23, 2012, 12:00 PM
Post #55 of 88 (4816 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Your a UK jumper. BPA system achieve Canopy Handling 1 then 2.
after that, like others have said seek professional instruction/coaching.
1.No fast track other than around 500+jumps a year mininum.
2.You will make mistakes,just hope you are react approproately and walk away from them, hence coaching.

Don't know where you are but Chris Lynch could help you out here.

Sorry for all the Bold don't flame meBlush


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Aug 24, 2012, 5:48 AM
Post #56 of 88 (4766 views)
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Re: [hokierower] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Excellent post sir, but you are wasting your time.

I have stroked this guys ego (maybe a mistake but I believe in dreams) by telling him he could be the best in the world (his own stated goal) if he takes the time early to build the right foundation, which AggieDave generously gave him.

He chosses not to listen because it isn't what he wants to hear. No one told him he was going to die under his Triathlon, but look at his last post. Explaining that swoopers by nature push the envelope and to take it slow, to him equals "you are going to die."

His bullshit statement about "experience" and people "holding him back" says it all.

I am done wasting my time with him. He will learn, unfortunately probably the HARD way. I just hope he gets it on video. Wink


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Aug 24, 2012, 6:06 PM
Post #57 of 88 (4708 views)
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Re: [EFS4LIFE] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's unfortunate that I have seen many replies as abrasive, and I'm sorry, I didn't come into this forum to act like an arse. I have no large ego. Nobody is holding me back, and people with true experience really do know better. It's a shame that so many people now believe that I'm one of these reckless young people who will die by downsizing too fast and hooking it in. I apologize for my previous posts but I don't think I made my point properly. Oh well, it's not the end of the world that I didn't win an internet argument.


richardw38  (B License)

Aug 26, 2012, 4:50 PM
Post #58 of 88 (4634 views)
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Re: [EFS4LIFE] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I would highly recommend you search for Sangi in the incidents forum. Watch the links to his videos. After that, drill in to your head that if I take it too fast this WILL happen to me!

http://youtu.be/tF578oSkrKk

http://youtu.be/9YZHpdtQVMw

Wow, I just did a search for Sangi, read a load of posts and watched a couple of videos. Thats pretty damn sobering. I cant imagine what his emotions must be. Getting hurt in this sport, because of an accident is one thing, but ending up a paraplegic because of a silly decision you made must be pretty hard to deal with. His crash video is pretty harsh, 10 seconds from decision to cripple. F*%K!


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 26, 2012, 5:08 PM
Post #59 of 88 (4627 views)
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Re: [richardw38] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I would highly recommend you search for Sangi in the incidents forum. Watch the links to his videos. After that, drill in to your head that if I take it too fast this WILL happen to me!

http://youtu.be/tF578oSkrKk

http://youtu.be/9YZHpdtQVMw

Wow, I just did a search for Sangi, read a load of posts and watched a couple of videos. Thats pretty damn sobering. I cant imagine what his emotions must be. Getting hurt in this sport, because of an accident is one thing, but ending up a paraplegic because of a silly decision you made must be pretty hard to deal with. His crash video is pretty harsh, 10 seconds from decision to cripple. F*%K!

That is what guys like me are fighting against. Trying to break through those attitudes to prevent this from happening again. If you make it in this sport for very long you'll see this exact same scenario play out more than a few times. Sometimes it is injury, sometimes it is death, never does it end well.


richardw38  (B License)

Aug 26, 2012, 5:19 PM
Post #60 of 88 (4625 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thankfully, and with a certain degree of luck, I made it through my teens/20's doing other "extreme" sports to sufficiently decent level to realize that you can't act like a pro until you aren't trying to act like a pro.

ps thanks for the great post earlier. I'm not really interested in swooping, but they are great tips for canopy flight.


(This post was edited by richardw38 on Aug 26, 2012, 5:21 PM)


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Aug 26, 2012, 8:03 PM
Post #61 of 88 (4587 views)
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Re: [richardw38] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
ps thanks for the great post earlier. I'm not really interested in swooping, but they are great tips for canopy flight.
Quote:


The post Dave gave should be a sticky and should be practiced by every single jumper, whether a potenial future swooper or not. We ALL pilot canopies to survive, and those basic skills he mentioned are essential, swooping or not.


jackjbradford  (D 109070)

Aug 31, 2012, 1:28 AM
Post #62 of 88 (4448 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

On a slightly more practical note...

I'm trying to organise some form of canopy coaching at every BCPA event this year. I already have a flight-1 course booked in at the Hib event in March and I'm hoping to get something lined up for Freshers in November too.

I'll let you know as soon as I open registration for the courses (without sounding creepy, I know who you are Wink)


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Sep 1, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #63 of 88 (4366 views)
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Re: [jackjbradford] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Awesome Jack, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE TOO.


Dean358  (D 28881)

Sep 1, 2012, 4:20 PM
Post #64 of 88 (4327 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGBe-Rh7o4U


(This post was edited by Dean358 on Sep 1, 2012, 4:21 PM)


richardw38  (B License)

Sep 2, 2012, 3:22 AM
Post #65 of 88 (4292 views)
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Re: [Dean358] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

my god thats fricken hilarious!!


shibu  (C 42074)

Oct 12, 2012, 4:36 AM
Post #66 of 88 (3996 views)
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Re: [excaza] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Take some canopy courses.

+1 on this. I just took my first Canopy Control Course & I read a few books & saw a couple of videos on canopy control so I was expecting to just get a better understanding of what I read or saw briefly. I learned alot more than that. Some techniques I had never heard of before (or I had heard of but completely misunderstood). I'm sure I will be busy repeating the new techniques I learned for some time.

Liked it so much I think I am going to take another basic canopy course in the future.


uberchris  (A License)

Oct 12, 2012, 2:28 PM
Post #67 of 88 (3898 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm going to take your post seriously and see where it goes.

You can learn to swoop. It isn't hard and it isn't anything 1,000 jumps won't teach you. Sound like a lot? Well, you can probably cut out about 20 of those jumps with some canopy coaching.

First of all, you have to realize that swooping is 100% about learning to fly the canopy you have to the absolute limits of what that canopy is able to achieve. That doesn't mean yoinking on risers or downsizing too quickly, since that is actually the exact opposite of what an accomplished swooper strives for.

Would you rather be on a Katana 120 and be scary or be on a Sabre2 170 and out swoop the assholes on smaller canopies? Personally I would rather be on the big "slow" canopy and out swoop the others. That shows true skill and understanding. Anyone can go fast on a small canopy, not everyone can swoop the piss out of a bigger canopy. Only a real canopy pilot can do that.

A real canopy pilot understands that the landing pattern is the foundation a swoop is built on. With out accuracy in the pattern, a swoop can not happen consistently. Who wants to be the guy who throws an air-ball sunset pond swoop? Not me, that's for sure! I want to be the guy who goes dirt-water-dirt while tossing a ghostrider blindman.

So you can go get coaching on the canopy you have and be the king of your DZ swoopers or you can downsize too quickly and "walk" with a wheelchair the rest of your life (and have a limp dick because of it). Your choice.

i just took my very first canopy course at chicks rock, not because i thought i should get canopy training, but because i wanted to get my canopy proficiency card........

one day, 4 hop n pops and a day spent with our instructor, and i feel like i have literally been reborn under canopy. EVERYTHING, and i mean EVERYTHING i was doing (except landing and walking away) has been wrong. in my whopping 200ish jumps i was thinking i had it together because lately ive been able to land within a few feet of my target, but with severe and low input on fronts/rears..............

i have been shown a whole new world, and though ive got nothing but time and practice to go (because i suck ass), i had no idea how important the holding, setup, and entering into your downwind/base/final really was at the right altitudes/spots. we were actually shown that you need to swoop, in several stages (at least for our bigger canopies and mild wingloadings) to land efficiently. before this course i really paid no mind to the term "recovery"..... i am unbelievably excited over this new mindframe.

and even though i have a million years of work to do, im actually feeling like im learning how to use my canopy in full flight to stop the vertical altitude loss, plane out, and burn the horizontal before finishing my flare. i cannot WAIT to continue to take canopy courses and do coaching, and i suggest for anyone in the OPs situation or anyone who hasnt actually taken any canopy courses: DO IT!!!!

thanks for your wisdom dave


shibu  (C 42074)

Oct 13, 2012, 3:50 AM
Post #68 of 88 (3829 views)
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Re: [Dean358] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post


Laugh lmao


yakirtosh

Oct 27, 2012, 2:43 PM
Post #69 of 88 (3585 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Yea I don't know.

I completely agree with dave and others but personally i believe you should simply jump normally with one parachute you feel comfortable with, you will need at least 100-150 jumps to even start thinking about swooping. Get to know your canopy, get the feeling for when it stalls, how it acts in high winds, low winds, how fast/slow it turns, play with front/rear risers in high alt to learn the differences. Then you move on and learn to land with your rear risers only, and when you have all that, get a coach that will teach you how to plan your swoop approach, which is normally without turns in the beginning. Simply both front risers down to max to gain speed, rear risers to cover, lean a bit forward and use toggles to break when losing alt and speed during the swoop. You will also have to go through training on how to use your legs properly when landing in high (higher) speed. You can injure yourself (or even die) just by crashing during you swoop.

I dont say Im a pro or know any better, but I have my own experience, and I was rather quick in learning than many others who prefer to take it easy and do swoops and alike only after 1000+ jumps. I was downsizing rather quick from 190 to 170 to 150 to 130 to 110 to currently JVX 99 all within 400 jumps! I consider myself lucky to have some of my best friends to be instructors at my home dropzone and helping me out to improve everyday and with every jump. I'm a curious mother-effer and I don't try new things unless I've asked all possible questions to the right people about my next move. So with a bit over 500 jumps im swooping the shh out of my JVX 99.

It def is a very dangerous sport all in all but the most dangerous approach within this sport is obviously the swoop. And to be honest I have more respect to people taking it easy and learning over the long way than people like me who need to have quick progress ;-)

Anyhow, the best way to go for you is def just jump as many times as possible, learn your canopy and when you feel safe underneath it, continue progressively. Plus, your canopy may not be suitable for swooping, you may wanna look for a canopy that has easy input to front and back risers and that 'dives' properly. Practically you can make any canopy dive into a swoop but you will need a hell-of-alota power in your arms for some of the canopies out there.

Also, take a good look in the fatalities section on dropzone.com, just so you see how many people die taking a wrong approach in attempt to swoop (hard landing deaths). Its very easy to watch all these pros on youtube doing their swoops. Just remember they all have above 2000 jumps and know what they're doing :-) You need only one stupid mistake and a split second to give up your life...

Good luck to you!!

Cheers,
Yako


yakirtosh

Oct 27, 2012, 3:08 PM
Post #70 of 88 (3573 views)
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Re: [yakirtosh] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Just seen the last couple posts haha. Shit, didn't know the guy was actually complaining about telling him he needs experience Cool

It's ALL about EXPERIENCE. Experience is what defines your knowledge about a particular subject. We're not talking about soccer and basketball. This is the most dangerous sport there is!

Like the others said, nobody cares if you out swoop them, its not a competition. It's about having fun and surviving in order to jump again.

Go ahead, buy a comp velo and swoop it, let's see if you survive it.

All these people here are trying to help you and are very concerned about you surviving. You better take their advices.

Good luck!


IMGR2  (D 21089)

Oct 27, 2012, 3:12 PM
Post #71 of 88 (3570 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

This thread is awesome. Classic DZ.com.

Quag, you can choose swooping as a discipline right now and there is no problem with that.

No one and I repeat NO ONE will learn to swoop from another person typing you a freaking book to read.

I personally have learn from the school of hard knocks. No coaches when I started skydiving.

All I have to say is learn absolutely everything a canopy can do, this includes crew.

And go find you someone near you that will help you and talk you through things you are not familiar with.

You will never learn the dynamics of swooping from the internet.


trigger  (D 101390)

Oct 27, 2012, 3:37 PM
Post #72 of 88 (3563 views)
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Re: [yakirtosh] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Swooping the shit out of a JVX 99 at 500jumps
Video please


craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 27, 2012, 5:03 PM
Post #73 of 88 (3545 views)
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Re: [yakirtosh] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I was downsizing rather quick from 190 to 170 to 150 to 130 to 110 to currently JVX 99 all within 400 jumps!

... next post ...

Quote:
It's ALL about EXPERIENCE. Experience is what defines your knowledge about a particular subject. We're not talking about soccer and basketball. This is the most dangerous sport there is!


Good stuff.


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Oct 27, 2012, 6:10 PM
Post #74 of 88 (3527 views)
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Re: [craigbey] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone please delete this thread.


OneJumpWally  (A License)

Oct 28, 2012, 8:19 AM
Post #75 of 88 (3463 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] So I want to swoop... [In reply to] Can't Post

HEY GUYS ! I just did my first tandem and I want to be the best swooper in the world. Any advise from the guys with thousands of jumps?....Experience ? that's bullshit. You guys are just afraid I will become the most badass swooper in the universe and destroy you all....
Dude. I sincerely hope you SLOW DOWN so you don't die. I'm pretty sure the majority of fatalities skydiving now are swooping accidents Crazy


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