Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Jeb's prototype Mirage

 

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nickfrey

Aug 21, 2012, 8:57 PM
Post #51 of 69 (3153 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

Whats the point of having a MiraJeb when you cant even get to the handles anyway?


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Aug 21, 2012, 9:08 PM
Post #52 of 69 (3150 views)
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Re: Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

I still don't see what's so special about it. Can't you freepack a BASE canopy into any skydiving rig that will fit it?


robinheid  (D 5533)

Aug 21, 2012, 9:41 PM
Post #53 of 69 (3139 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I still don't see what's so special about it. Can't you freepack a BASE canopy into any skydiving rig that will fit it?

Yes, but...

Most rigs that will fit a 260+ BASE canopy also have a very large reserve because, as I explain above, they're "big boy" rigs meant for larger and/or older jumpers who want or need a large main AND reserve.

Accordingly, the container system component relationships remain more or less constant; they're just scaled up.

As I understand the MiraJeb, its main container accommodates a "big boy" sized main but has a "normal" size reserve container.

Accordingly, this requires some re-engineering because the main contianer is scaled up but the reserve container isn't.

This kind of re-engineering can seem pretty simple on its face, but can create some serious unk-unks for the unwary.

A case in point, which I've described on other threads: Years ago, Rigging Innovations made a modified version of one of its rigs (the Talon, I think) with a narrower-than-standard reserve container to accommodate the gnerally narrower shoulders of women jumpers.

In so doing, they changed the reserve flap geometry and relationships a little -- just enough to increase the amount of pilot chute spring force required to push past the flaps.

This went unnoticed until Rose Karam had a hard pull on her main and the reserve wouldn't open when she "went silver."

Fortunately, she refused to die and clawed open the flaps and survived without injury.

More fortunately, they duplicated the failure on the packing table and then fixed the problem by upgrading the pilot chute spring.

So while the MiraJeb might appear to be a pretty standard Mirage, a lot of thought and tinkering probably went into making it BASE-canopy friendly without planting any landmines to be discovered later.

44
Cool


robinheid  (D 5533)

Aug 21, 2012, 9:53 PM
Post #54 of 69 (3133 views)
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Re: [nickfrey] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Whats the point of having a MiraJeb when you cant even get to the handles anyway?

So you can jump your BASE canopy from an airplane with a TSOed two-parachute rig that complies with FAA regulations -- none of which include any language about handle access.

Wink

Beyond that, even most BASE-specific wingsuits do have handle access.

44
Cool


nickfrey

Aug 21, 2012, 10:05 PM
Post #55 of 69 (3126 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Whats the point of having a MiraJeb when you cant even get to the handles anyway?

So you can jump your BASE canopy from an airplane with a TSOed two-parachute rig that complies with FAA regulations -- none of which include any language about handle access.

Wink

Beyond that, even most BASE-specific wingsuits do have handle access.

44
Cool

I get that, low profile rig that fits a large canopy. But why use it for base, just the fact that the risers run down the side and have to both clear the container evenly greatly increases the chances of line twists. Also, wouldn't this increase the chances of tension knots when half of the line set is pulled out of the tailpocket faster then the rest?


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Aug 21, 2012, 11:06 PM
Post #56 of 69 (3111 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, but why not just get a big boy rig? What's wrong with having a big reserve?


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Aug 22, 2012, 6:13 AM
Post #57 of 69 (3060 views)
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Re: [nickfrey] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

I know one very active base jumper who has been jumping a flick light 188 free packed into a mirage container for a while. Not sure of the reserve size but given that it is near identical in size of his other rig (packed with a storm 120) I would assume it is a normal sized reserve. Maybe he will chime in? ... so looking at jebs rig how is it new or interesting?


robinheid  (D 5533)

Aug 22, 2012, 9:18 AM
Post #58 of 69 (3003 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks, but why not just get a big boy rig?

Lots of people have and will continue to do so -- and for far fewer $$$. This is just another marketplace choice.

In reply to:
What's wrong with having a big reserve?
Absolutely effing nothing! My skydiving reserves are actually much bigger than my skydiving mains because, you know, they are lifesaving devices, not fashion accessories, so I want something that's gonna be able to do that job even if I can't help.


44
Cool


robinheid  (D 5533)

Aug 22, 2012, 9:32 AM
Post #59 of 69 (2997 views)
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Re: [nickfrey] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Whats the point of having a MiraJeb when you cant even get to the handles anyway?

So you can jump your BASE canopy from an airplane with a TSOed two-parachute rig that complies with FAA regulations -- none of which include any language about handle access.

Wink

Beyond that, even most BASE-specific wingsuits do have handle access.

44
Cool

I get that, low profile rig that fits a large canopy. But why use it for base, just the fact that the risers run down the side and have to both clear the container evenly greatly increases the chances of line twists.


Riser covers in and of themselves do not "greatly" increase the probability of line twists -- if they increase that probability at all. And as you may have noticed, many if not all modern single-canopy BASE rigs come with... riser covers.

Wingsuits increase the chances of line twists way more than riser covers.

Bad body position at deployment increases the chances of line twists way more than riser covers.


In reply to:
Also, wouldn't this increase the chances of tension knots when half of the line set is pulled out of the tailpocket faster then the rest?

Not necessarily, but somebody who's studied the whole tension knot thing will have to provide the details on this one.

44
Cool


voilsb  (D 30581)

Aug 22, 2012, 10:42 AM
Post #60 of 69 (2976 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

So it's kinda like a nice accuracy rig, that holds a 288 main and a 176 reserve ...


nickfrey

Aug 22, 2012, 12:00 PM
Post #61 of 69 (2967 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually was not referring to the riser covers. Which at least on my perigee are designed so that the tuck flap is all the way down at the large three ring providing little to no resistance to the risers during deployment.

I would be more concerned about the riser channel next to the reserve as it would have a much greater impact on loading over a greater length of the riser. Compounded by the use of wider risers and likely a big grab or maybe even WLO toggle.

During most wingsuit deployments you are a good distance from object strike and should have some time to deal with any issues. But the reserve will be of little to no use. So why bother with it in the BASE environment. I totally understand using it to skirt FAA requirements from aircraft for low altitude deployments in places where there are no restrictions on opening altitude, but the benefit seems to end there.

I wonder if it is equipped with a skyhook?


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Aug 22, 2012, 3:19 PM
Post #62 of 69 (2927 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Thanks, but why not just get a big boy rig?

Lots of people have and will continue to do so -- and for far fewer $$$. This is just another marketplace choice.

I reckon if anyone posted a pic of their big boy rig on the internet and claimed it was the future of wingsuit proxy they'd be ripped to pieces.


nigel99  (D 1)

Aug 22, 2012, 4:29 PM
Post #63 of 69 (2897 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks, but why not just get a big boy rig? What's wrong with having a big reserve?

It seems the reserve is there for legal compliance, not actual use. It makes sense if you are deploying too low for a reserve to be any good, why bother with the extra weight? May as well have a 20 square foot reserve Smile


Jojo89

Dec 30, 2013, 5:29 AM
Post #64 of 69 (1823 views)
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Re: Jeb's prototype Mirage Mirage W [In reply to] Can't Post

Bumping with a Picture Mirage published on Facebook.
Attachments: 1004915_560226227399667_601155627_n.jpg (50.4 KB)


DHemer  (B License)

Jan 1, 2014, 1:37 AM
Post #65 of 69 (1534 views)
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Re: [Jojo89] Jeb's prototype Mirage Mirage W [In reply to] Can't Post

From Jeb on the basejumper forum

Quote:
Actually the rig has a ultra light Flik 266 with 3 color redbull logos top and bottom. It also has a 106 optimum reserve and the rig is built for proximity flying wing-suits from aircraft. The rig is just a bit larger then my G4 built for a specter 150 with a 140 reserve.

Getting wavers for pull altitude can be done with a little work but getting permission to jump from aircraft legally without a reserve is very very very difficult to say the least. This rig is going to change the proximity flying movement in the USA and open it up to more European style proxy from aircraft legally. In Europe pilots do not seem to care about people jumping without a reserve as much as they do here in the USA.

If you do proximity flying professionally then this rig needed to happen in order to work in the USA. I have been dreaming about this rig for 15 years for many reasons and now it exists.

Thank you Mirage for looking into the future and seeing what's coming :) The legal events in the USA have only just begun and the only people that will be able to participate in the proximity events from aircraft will need a rig like this :)

Aimed at a very limited subset of jumpers involved in Helibase style jumping in countries that require a 2 parachute system for aircraft exits.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jan 1, 2014, 3:58 PM
Post #66 of 69 (1364 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Jeb's prototype Mirage [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Not necessarily, but somebody who's studied the whole tension knot thing will have to provide the details on this one.

44

The cause of tension knots can be attributed more to aspect ratio than anything else. It also is the main factor in line over with brake lines. There can be a lot of slack in the lines before complete inflation.

Sparky


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jan 1, 2014, 4:22 PM
Post #67 of 69 (1331 views)
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Re: [DHemer] Jeb's prototype Mirage Mirage W [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Getting wavers for pull altitude can be done with a little work but getting permission to jump from aircraft legally without a reserve is very very very difficult to say the least.

There is no "pull altitude" requirement in the US. What USPA says in the SIM has no force of law. They are just a private club not a branch of government.

The chances of getting a waiver from the FAA to jump a single canopy rig would be just about zero.

Sparky


nigel99  (D 1)

Jan 1, 2014, 11:56 PM
Post #68 of 69 (1226 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Jeb's prototype Mirage Mirage W [In reply to] Can't Post

mjosparky wrote:
Quote:
Getting wavers for pull altitude can be done with a little work but getting permission to jump from aircraft legally without a reserve is very very very difficult to say the least.

There is no "pull altitude" requirement in the US. What USPA says in the SIM has no force of law. They are just a private club not a branch of government.

The chances of getting a waiver from the FAA to jump a single canopy rig would be just about zero.

Sparky

It's interesting, funny how this is in the opposite direction to the recent USPA BSR change.

Frankly I prefer Jebs approach, he has an appropriate main canopy with a container designed to do the primary job well. Sure the reserve may as well be a bag of old laundry as he knows it is highly unlikely that a main malfunction would be survivable.

Overall to me it shows the folly in raising the main deployment altitude. Educate jumpers to choose appropriate equipment! Jumping an HP canopy, then deploy at a suitable altitude, doing wingsuit proximity different equipment, relative work or AFF requiring 'lower' deployments then different again. We've got all the tools available, but so far few people have the balls to not follow the herd.


evan85  (C 41367)

Jan 5, 2014, 3:48 AM
Post #69 of 69 (966 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Jeb's prototype Mirage Mirage W [In reply to] Can't Post

FYI: This month's parachutist, just inside the front cover, calls the Mirage W Series, "the first TSO'd dual parachute system designed specifically for wingsuit B.A.S.E."


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