The video is looking real choppy for me so its hard to see the exit. But something that has worked well for me and my teams is to have the OC launch their leg more up, than out.. think of kicking the propeller. Then the FF doesn't need to launch as hard because the OC's leg is closer to where they are launching from, which puts less rotational energy into the exit.
Also remind everyone at the mock up that it is EVERYONE's responsibility to stop the spin as soon as it starts.
Your IC also needs to get their hips through the door to enable tail to go on time. Right now your OC is doing a great job, but your IC is rolling out the door over his/ her knee, and tail is still on the step with OC already flying. This is where your rotation comes from.
As someone already said... Tail is late. Point is also early and that is not helping.
Tail should try to drop down and out, point should be the last person on the plane.
As point for my team, I can attest to the fact that Point needs to let the formation leave and launch toward the wing. Point DOES NOT dive out. It helps me if I keep my head up on exit too, not looking down like I think this Point was doing.
Oh, and yes, don't ride the wild dog if it's gettin' too funky!
I'm point, and what you pointed out is valid, until about 3 weeks ago. I'm keeping head high and looking over the formation keeping eye contact with tail at all times. I'm also trying to be last off the plane, with no outward force at all. You're about the Nth person (where N>>1) to say "launch toward the wing". To be honest, I don't know what you mean by that. Are you saying be aggressive and head towards the tip of the wing?
"launch toward the wing". To be honest, I don't know what you mean by that. Are you saying be aggressive and head towards the tip of the wing?
Normally, when I hear that tip, it's aimed at a team training out of a high-wing aircraft like a Caravan or Twin Otter. It means that you think about going 'up and out' not 'straight out' or 'down and out'.
I'm not a huge fan of using it as a coaching tip myself, but if it works for you, go for it :-)
Personally, when I'm trying to describe what point does on an E exit, I say "place yourself above your centers". To do that, think about a) leaving later than you think, b) presenting your hips to the wind, and c) not pushing too far out of the airplane. When the team's timing clicks, it can be quite the lazy exit for point.
Best of luck working it out; it can be a frustrating exit initially, but when it clicks it's heaps of fun.
Personally, when I'm trying to describe what point does on an E exit, I say "place yourself above your centers". To do that, think about a) leaving later than you think, b) presenting your hips to the wind, and c) not pushing too far out of the airplane. When the team's timing clicks, it can be quite the lazy exit for point.
This is exactly what I'm doing, and thinking. The exits are not rotating nearly as much as they used to, but we still get a bit. I believe our IC needs to get out the door faster. We are working on it.
The way I think of the IC exit, their goal is to get out of the door lower than the OC. That's an extremely difficult goal to achieve, but it's good to aim at. When thinking about the exit, I break it into three parts:
Exit position: Almost a hip-check through the rear of the door. Rather than exiting where OC is, they want to be low, compact, and going through the part of the door that Rear was occupying. IC needs to avoid leaving their feet in the airplane; they almost leave tucked in a ball. This means that ICs leg - which Rear is holding onto - leaves at the same time as their arms, and not later. Removes 90% of the remaining tension from the exit.
Setup: Personally - I'm 6'3" - when setting up in the door, I have to think about being low, on the balls of my feet, and almost facing forward rather than out. This allows me to get my legs out at the same time as my arms/head. The better IC is, the less this will matter. Great ICs can exit from almost anywhere.
Timing: Try to beat the OC off the airplane. You can't, but if you're aiming for that, you'll probably avoid being late .
It'll take some time for these to come together, but if Rear's grip on IC and IC's grip on Point don't have much tension, you're almost there.
All of this becomes a lot easier if Rear gets aggressively right-shoulder-down early, and OC gets hips up and square into the wind.
I have to think about being low, on the balls of my feet, and almost facing forward rather than out. This allows me to get my legs out at the same time as my arms/head. The better IC is, the less this will matter. Great ICs can exit from almost anywhere.
Timing: Try to beat the OC off the airplane. You can't, but if you're aiming for that, you'll probably avoid being late .
I like this a lot. I'm OC, and I have the count. On all the exits, I stay as far foward as possible to give my IC's big child bearing hips room to clear the door (the point can be entirely/mostly inside for most exits and it doesn't seem to hurt at all) I know things are going right when I see my IC clearing the door frame hips first and before or at the same time I'm calling GO
I know on some exits, my IC really is beating me off the plane (barely) - or at least, that's the feel the two of us go for and when it happens, those are fantastic exits.
Also, to assist the IC, the OC has to really try to launch forward into the prop blast and up a little bit. But that forward bit is huge for us. OC is living in prop blast, but the IC isn't - so that launch forward kind of cancels out the effect of us leaving with two different environments. (find and OC with a strong right leg )
(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jul 30, 2012, 7:08 AM)
The way I think of the IC exit, their goal is to get out of the door lower than the OC. That's an extremely difficult goal to achieve, but it's good to aim at. When thinking about the exit, I break it into three parts:
Exit position: Almost a hip-check through the rear of the door. Rather than exiting where OC is, they want to be low, compact, and going through the part of the door that Rear was occupying. IC needs to avoid leaving their feet in the airplane; they almost leave tucked in a ball. This means that ICs leg - which Rear is holding onto - leaves at the same time as their arms, and not later. Removes 90% of the remaining tension from the exit.
Setup: Personally - I'm 6'3" - when setting up in the door, I have to think about being low, on the balls of my feet, and almost facing forward rather than out. This allows me to get my legs out at the same time as my arms/head. The better IC is, the less this will matter. Great ICs can exit from almost anywhere.
Timing: Try to beat the OC off the airplane. You can't, but if you're aiming for that, you'll probably avoid being late .
It'll take some time for these to come together, but if Rear's grip on IC and IC's grip on Point don't have much tension, you're almost there.
All of this becomes a lot easier if Rear gets aggressively right-shoulder-down early, and OC gets hips up and square into the wind.
Most importantly, don't forget to have fun .
Good explanations, everybody! Guess we all have variations on how to describe the Point exit for an E. If I remember nothing else it is to not be early and to be above my centers looking down the line at my Tail flyer. :)
I'm point, and what you pointed out is valid, until about 3 weeks ago. I'm keeping head high and looking over the formation keeping eye contact with tail at all times. I'm also trying to be last off the plane, with no outward force at all. You're about the Nth person (where N>>1) to say "launch toward the wing". To be honest, I don't know what you mean by that. Are you saying be aggressive and head towards the tip of the wing?
Yea, I didn't mean be agressive, just let the IC move, get that hip down and present to the wing. Sounds like you're getting it down pretty good though.
Guess we all have variations on how to describe the Point exit for an E.
Yup. I think that's the fun of teaching/coaching. There's a ton of different ways to explain any given move, and you need to find the way that works for the person learning, not what works for the person teaching.
Hopefully the various descriptions have helped out Scooby's team somewhat. And hopefully rehmwa is still alive.
Scooby: it'd be great to see an updated video, if you have one lying around.
We're trying to get video from our camera guy. We've been using a dropbox arrangement, but that's having problems with the camera guys Mac. Once I get them onto my hard drive, I'll cut them up, and post an E exit. We're still having issues. Getting pretty frustrating...
We're still working on this. Have made improvements, and have also discovered that point is the least of the concerns here. OC basically needs to be head down out of the door, with his legs up the hill, so the point can stay head high. IC must be out of the door completely facing prop blast in a head high position. Basically, IC and OC must be acrobats. This is a very difficult thing to do... bob.dino's comments on IC actually make sense to me now.
(This post was edited by StreetScooby on Oct 22, 2012, 7:19 AM)
timing of the IC's hip check early vs the OC's actual departure helps reduce the 'acrobatic' aspect of their jobs, but you're right, those two really own eliminating that rotation
timing of the IC's hip check early vs the OC's actual departure helps reduce the 'acrobatic' aspect of their jobs, but you're right, those two really own eliminating that rotation
Thanks, rehmwa. I agree completely!
On another note, I won't see you at Nationals. My team disbanded after a couple injuries. Maybe another year.
On another note, I won't see you at Nationals. My team disbanded after a couple injuries. Maybe another year.
Tough guys, we only disbanded after the latest injury (a twisted knee in Paraclete last month - he's fine now). That's another trouble with us old guys. Great season though, scoring super high and we had a blast.
On another note, I won't see you at Nationals. My team disbanded after a couple injuries. Maybe another year.
Tough guys, we only disbanded after the latest injury (a twisted knee in Paraclete last month - he's fine now). That's another trouble with us old guys. Great season though, scoring super high and we had a blast.
Try 8way with a bunch of old farts. We went through 2 full time alternates, and a couple of ringers.
Thanks, rehmwa! Yesterday was 10 days since my surgery and I was out mowing my yard (albeit a little slowly). Not having groin pain like some people who have had hernia surgery. Maybe mine wasn't so bad after all. I really wanted to wait - because I had my invite to the Kaleidoscope Dives with BJ Worth - but my lower intestine was being strangulated and I was having weak spells. At least all that is gone now and I'm on the mend. :)
2012.06.30.E.0004.avi
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