Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Relative Work:
Rotating Meeker exits...

 


StreetScooby

Jul 6, 2012, 3:10 PM
Post #1 of 47 (3830 views)
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Rotating Meeker exits... Can't Post

Any ideas how to stop the rotation on our Meeker exits? This video is pretty grainy. I had to limit its size to 300KB.
Attachments: 2012.06.30.E.0004.avi (299 KB)


UKFSChick

Jul 6, 2012, 7:10 PM
Post #2 of 47 (3788 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tail is late. Fix that, no more rotation. If you are still having issues consider aiming to take it out on a 45. Good luck.


PatrickDugan  (D 29129)

Jul 6, 2012, 7:11 PM
Post #3 of 47 (3787 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

I asked Jack Jefferies that same question once. His answer was, "Key it."

For real.


StreetScooby

Jul 6, 2012, 7:19 PM
Post #4 of 47 (3783 views)
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Re: [PatrickDugan] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
His answer was, "Key it."

IC is doing that, 180 degrees into the turn.


UKFSChick

Jul 6, 2012, 7:41 PM
Post #5 of 47 (3779 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

well, make sure your camera flyer's had time to get the formation before you do that Tongue


Travman  (E License)

Jul 6, 2012, 7:54 PM
Post #6 of 47 (3777 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

The video is looking real choppy for me so its hard to see the exit. But something that has worked well for me and my teams is to have the OC launch their leg more up, than out.. think of kicking the propeller. Then the FF doesn't need to launch as hard because the OC's leg is closer to where they are launching from, which puts less rotational energy into the exit.

Also remind everyone at the mock up that it is EVERYONE's responsibility to stop the spin as soon as it starts.


UKFSChick

Jul 6, 2012, 8:41 PM
Post #7 of 47 (3775 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Your IC also needs to get their hips through the door to enable tail to go on time. Right now your OC is doing a great job, but your IC is rolling out the door over his/ her knee, and tail is still on the step with OC already flying. This is where your rotation comes from.


StreetScooby

Jul 7, 2012, 5:43 AM
Post #8 of 47 (3761 views)
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Re: [UKFSChick] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Great feedback everyone! Thanks!


StreetScooby

Jul 7, 2012, 6:37 AM
Post #9 of 47 (3754 views)
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Re: [Travman] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The video is looking real choppy for me so its hard to see the exit.

Sorry about that, but I had to trim the bitrate quite a bit in order to get the file under 300KB, which is the limit on uploads.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jul 8, 2012, 4:35 AM
Post #10 of 47 (3717 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

You could upload it to youtube, limt its access to invitation-only (if you so choose), and then post the link here.


StreetScooby

Jul 8, 2012, 5:58 AM
Post #11 of 47 (3713 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you.


Ron

Jul 9, 2012, 10:30 AM
Post #12 of 47 (3625 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

As someone already said... Tail is late. Point is also early and that is not helping.

Tail should try to drop down and out, point should be the last person on the plane.


StreetScooby

Jul 9, 2012, 11:56 AM
Post #13 of 47 (3617 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As someone already said... Tail is late. Point is also early and that is not helping.

Tail should try to drop down and out, point should be the last person on the plane.

Thank you.


Ron

Jul 9, 2012, 12:28 PM
Post #14 of 47 (3612 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh and like someone else already said... Key it and it will stop. Wink


elightle  (D 5966)

Jul 27, 2012, 10:54 AM
Post #15 of 47 (3358 views)
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Re: [Ron] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As someone already said... Tail is late. Point is also early and that is not helping.

Tail should try to drop down and out, point should be the last person on the plane.

As point for my team, I can attest to the fact that Point needs to let the formation leave and launch toward the wing. Point DOES NOT dive out. It helps me if I keep my head up on exit too, not looking down like I think this Point was doing.

Oh, and yes, don't ride the wild dog if it's gettin' too funky! Cool


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jul 27, 2012, 11:11 AM
Post #16 of 47 (3354 views)
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Re: [elightle] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

It helps for both Point and IC (everybody really) to remember that the center of their body is near their junk - not located at their face.

It really does. Motion on exit needs to initiate at center of mass - not the center of 4 of their 5 senses.


StreetScooby

Jul 27, 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #17 of 47 (3348 views)
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Re: [elightle] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...and launch toward the wing.

I'm point, and what you pointed out is valid, until about 3 weeks ago. I'm keeping head high and looking over the formation keeping eye contact with tail at all times. I'm also trying to be last off the plane, with no outward force at all. You're about the Nth person (where N>>1) to say "launch toward the wing". To be honest, I don't know what you mean by that. Are you saying be aggressive and head towards the tip of the wing?


StreetScooby

Jul 27, 2012, 11:56 AM
Post #18 of 47 (3347 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It helps for both Point and IC (everybody really) to remember that the center of their body is near their junk - not located at their face.

Very true, and well said. All of "my guys" can turn in place, so we are aware of this.


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jul 28, 2012, 12:32 AM
Post #19 of 47 (3319 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"launch toward the wing". To be honest, I don't know what you mean by that. Are you saying be aggressive and head towards the tip of the wing?

Normally, when I hear that tip, it's aimed at a team training out of a high-wing aircraft like a Caravan or Twin Otter. It means that you think about going 'up and out' not 'straight out' or 'down and out'.

I'm not a huge fan of using it as a coaching tip myself, but if it works for you, go for it :-)

Personally, when I'm trying to describe what point does on an E exit, I say "place yourself above your centers". To do that, think about a) leaving later than you think, b) presenting your hips to the wind, and c) not pushing too far out of the airplane. When the team's timing clicks, it can be quite the lazy exit for point.

Best of luck working it out; it can be a frustrating exit initially, but when it clicks it's heaps of fun.


StreetScooby

Jul 28, 2012, 5:17 AM
Post #20 of 47 (3313 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Personally, when I'm trying to describe what point does on an E exit, I say "place yourself above your centers". To do that, think about a) leaving later than you think, b) presenting your hips to the wind, and c) not pushing too far out of the airplane. When the team's timing clicks, it can be quite the lazy exit for point.

This is exactly what I'm doing, and thinking. The exits are not rotating nearly as much as they used to, but we still get a bit. I believe our IC needs to get out the door faster. We are working on it.

Thanks.


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jul 28, 2012, 10:38 PM
Post #21 of 47 (3297 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

The way I think of the IC exit, their goal is to get out of the door lower than the OC. That's an extremely difficult goal to achieve, but it's good to aim at. When thinking about the exit, I break it into three parts:

Exit position: Almost a hip-check through the rear of the door. Rather than exiting where OC is, they want to be low, compact, and going through the part of the door that Rear was occupying. IC needs to avoid leaving their feet in the airplane; they almost leave tucked in a ball. This means that ICs leg - which Rear is holding onto - leaves at the same time as their arms, and not later. Removes 90% of the remaining tension from the exit.

Setup: Personally - I'm 6'3" - when setting up in the door, I have to think about being low, on the balls of my feet, and almost facing forward rather than out. This allows me to get my legs out at the same time as my arms/head. The better IC is, the less this will matter. Great ICs can exit from almost anywhere.

Timing: Try to beat the OC off the airplane. You can't, but if you're aiming for that, you'll probably avoid being late Tongue.

It'll take some time for these to come together, but if Rear's grip on IC and IC's grip on Point don't have much tension, you're almost there.

All of this becomes a lot easier if Rear gets aggressively right-shoulder-down early, and OC gets hips up and square into the wind.

Most importantly, don't forget to have fun Smile.


StreetScooby

Jul 29, 2012, 4:33 AM
Post #22 of 47 (3292 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks!


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jul 30, 2012, 7:06 AM
Post #23 of 47 (3252 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have to think about being low, on the balls of my feet, and almost facing forward rather than out. This allows me to get my legs out at the same time as my arms/head. The better IC is, the less this will matter. Great ICs can exit from almost anywhere.

Timing: Try to beat the OC off the airplane. You can't, but if you're aiming for that, you'll probably avoid being late Tongue.

I like this a lot. I'm OC, and I have the count. On all the exits, I stay as far foward as possible to give my IC's big child bearing hips room to clear the door (the point can be entirely/mostly inside for most exits and it doesn't seem to hurt at all) I know things are going right when I see my IC clearing the door frame hips first and before or at the same time I'm calling GO

I know on some exits, my IC really is beating me off the plane (barely) - or at least, that's the feel the two of us go for and when it happens, those are fantastic exits.

Also, to assist the IC, the OC has to really try to launch forward into the prop blast and up a little bit. But that forward bit is huge for us. OC is living in prop blast, but the IC isn't - so that launch forward kind of cancels out the effect of us leaving with two different environments. (find and OC with a strong right leg Laugh)


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jul 30, 2012, 7:08 AM)


StreetScooby

Jul 30, 2012, 10:48 AM
Post #24 of 47 (3240 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm forwarding this feedback to my team mates.
Thanks!


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jul 31, 2012, 12:07 AM
Post #25 of 47 (3211 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... to give my IC's big child bearing hips room to clear the door

I think your life expectancy just decreased.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Aug 1, 2012, 10:23 AM
Post #26 of 47 (1038 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
... to give my IC's big child bearing hips room to clear the door

I think your life expectancy just decreased.

@Bill I've printed this statement to show around at the DZ ... Looks like we'll be having "free fireworks" this weekend.

I just love stirring the pot. Tongue


(This post was edited by skyjumpenfool on Aug 1, 2012, 4:03 PM)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Aug 1, 2012, 10:36 AM
Post #27 of 47 (1036 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
... to give my IC's big child bearing hips room to clear the door

I think your life expectancy just decreased.

@Bill I've printed this statement to show around at the DZ ... Looks like we'll be having "free firewoks" this weekend.

I just love stirring the pot. Tongue

It's a standing joke, and I'm out of state this weekend - enjoy Laugh

"firewoks"? is that Star Wars meets the Last Air Bender?


elightle  (D 5966)

Aug 1, 2012, 1:19 PM
Post #28 of 47 (1025 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The way I think of the IC exit, their goal is to get out of the door lower than the OC. That's an extremely difficult goal to achieve, but it's good to aim at. When thinking about the exit, I break it into three parts:

Exit position: Almost a hip-check through the rear of the door. Rather than exiting where OC is, they want to be low, compact, and going through the part of the door that Rear was occupying. IC needs to avoid leaving their feet in the airplane; they almost leave tucked in a ball. This means that ICs leg - which Rear is holding onto - leaves at the same time as their arms, and not later. Removes 90% of the remaining tension from the exit.

Setup: Personally - I'm 6'3" - when setting up in the door, I have to think about being low, on the balls of my feet, and almost facing forward rather than out. This allows me to get my legs out at the same time as my arms/head. The better IC is, the less this will matter. Great ICs can exit from almost anywhere.

Timing: Try to beat the OC off the airplane. You can't, but if you're aiming for that, you'll probably avoid being late Tongue.

It'll take some time for these to come together, but if Rear's grip on IC and IC's grip on Point don't have much tension, you're almost there.

All of this becomes a lot easier if Rear gets aggressively right-shoulder-down early, and OC gets hips up and square into the wind.

Most importantly, don't forget to have fun Smile.

Good explanations, everybody! Guess we all have variations on how to describe the Point exit for an E. If I remember nothing else it is to not be early and to be above my centers looking down the line at my Tail flyer. :)


elightle  (D 5966)

Aug 1, 2012, 1:25 PM
Post #29 of 47 (1023 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
...and launch toward the wing.

I'm point, and what you pointed out is valid, until about 3 weeks ago. I'm keeping head high and looking over the formation keeping eye contact with tail at all times. I'm also trying to be last off the plane, with no outward force at all. You're about the Nth person (where N>>1) to say "launch toward the wing". To be honest, I don't know what you mean by that. Are you saying be aggressive and head towards the tip of the wing?

Yea, I didn't mean be agressive, just let the IC move, get that hip down and present to the wing. Sounds like you're getting it down pretty good though. Smile


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Aug 5, 2012, 3:05 AM
Post #30 of 47 (997 views)
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Re: [elightle] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Guess we all have variations on how to describe the Point exit for an E.

Yup. I think that's the fun of teaching/coaching. There's a ton of different ways to explain any given move, and you need to find the way that works for the person learning, not what works for the person teaching.

Hopefully the various descriptions have helped out Scooby's team somewhat. And hopefully rehmwa is still alive.

Scooby: it'd be great to see an updated video, if you have one lying around.


StreetScooby

Aug 27, 2012, 6:07 AM
Post #31 of 47 (880 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

We're trying to get video from our camera guy. We've been using a dropbox arrangement, but that's having problems with the camera guys Mac. Once I get them onto my hard drive, I'll cut them up, and post an E exit. We're still having issues. Getting pretty frustrating...


elightle  (D 5966)

Aug 27, 2012, 10:18 AM
Post #32 of 47 (871 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We're still having issues. Getting pretty frustrating...

Same here for D exits. Unsure


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Oct 15, 2012, 1:52 PM
Post #33 of 47 (740 views)
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Re: [PatrickDugan] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I asked Jack Jefferies that same question once. His answer was, "Key it."

For real.

So since this thread was posted, I've found myself as IC on a last-minute casual 4-way team prepping for Nationals.

I swear every single time our Meeker exits rotated this weekend, the first thought that came into my head was "Key it!"

LaughLaughCool


StreetScooby

Oct 22, 2012, 7:19 AM
Post #34 of 47 (670 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

We're still working on this. Have made improvements, and have also discovered that point is the least of the concerns here. OC basically needs to be head down out of the door, with his legs up the hill, so the point can stay head high. IC must be out of the door completely facing prop blast in a head high position. Basically, IC and OC must be acrobats. This is a very difficult thing to do... bob.dino's comments on IC actually make sense to me now.


(This post was edited by StreetScooby on Oct 22, 2012, 7:19 AM)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Oct 22, 2012, 11:58 AM
Post #35 of 47 (657 views)
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Re: [StreetScooby] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

you got it.

timing of the IC's hip check early vs the OC's actual departure helps reduce the 'acrobatic' aspect of their jobs, but you're right, those two really own eliminating that rotation


elightle  (D 5966)

Oct 24, 2012, 8:59 AM
Post #36 of 47 (638 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
timing of the IC's hip check early vs the OC's actual departure helps reduce the 'acrobatic' aspect of their jobs, but you're right, those two really own eliminating that rotation

Thanks, rehmwa. I agree completely!

On another note, I won't see you at Nationals. My team disbanded after a couple injuries. Maybe another year. Frown


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Oct 24, 2012, 11:21 AM
Post #37 of 47 (634 views)
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Re: [elightle] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On another note, I won't see you at Nationals. My team disbanded after a couple injuries. Maybe another year. Frown

Tough guys, we only disbanded after the latest injury (a twisted knee in Paraclete last month - he's fine now). That's another trouble with us old guys. Great season though, scoring super high and we had a blast.


Ron

Oct 24, 2012, 1:10 PM
Post #38 of 47 (627 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Now you are not going?


elightle  (D 5966)

Nov 6, 2012, 2:26 PM
Post #39 of 47 (523 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, rehmwa. I had to have emergency hernia surgery last week. Good timing as far as jump season goes though. Just hope I heal up 100%. Unimpressed


Premier Remster  (C License)

Nov 6, 2012, 2:43 PM
Post #40 of 47 (520 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
On another note, I won't see you at Nationals. My team disbanded after a couple injuries. Maybe another year. Frown

Tough guys, we only disbanded after the latest injury (a twisted knee in Paraclete last month - he's fine now). That's another trouble with us old guys. Great season though, scoring super high and we had a blast.

Try 8way with a bunch of old farts. We went through 2 full time alternates, and a couple of ringers.


monkycndo  (D License)

Nov 6, 2012, 2:48 PM
Post #41 of 47 (518 views)
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Re: [Remster] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Try 8way with a bunch of old farts. We went through 2 full time alternates, and a couple of ringers.

And that was just for the guy that collected all the walkers in the loading area once the team was on the plane.Shocked


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Nov 6, 2012, 3:09 PM
Post #42 of 47 (515 views)
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Re: [monkycndo] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Try 8way with a bunch of old farts. We went through 2 full time alternates, and a couple of ringers.

And that was just for the guy that collected all the walkers in the loading area once the team was on the plane.Shocked

but there is an up side - most of them get all their farts out early by just climbing the ladder during loading


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Nov 6, 2012, 3:11 PM
Post #43 of 47 (513 views)
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Re: [elightle] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hey, rehmwa. I had to have emergency hernia surgery last week. Good timing as far as jump season goes though. Just hope I heal up 100%. Unimpressed

recover fast, Ed


Premier Remster  (C License)

Nov 7, 2012, 7:07 AM
Post #44 of 47 (497 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Try 8way with a bunch of old farts. We went through 2 full time alternates, and a couple of ringers.

And that was just for the guy that collected all the walkers in the loading area once the team was on the plane.Shocked

but there is an up side - most of them get all their farts out early by just climbing the ladder during loading

You would think, wouldn't you... UnimpressedUnsure


elightle  (D 5966)

Nov 12, 2012, 12:30 PM
Post #45 of 47 (453 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, rehmwa! Yesterday was 10 days since my surgery and I was out mowing my yard (albeit a little slowly). Not having groin pain like some people who have had hernia surgery. Maybe mine wasn't so bad after all. I really wanted to wait - because I had my invite to the Kaleidoscope Dives with BJ Worth - but my lower intestine was being strangulated and I was having weak spells. At least all that is gone now and I'm on the mend. :)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Nov 12, 2012, 2:32 PM
Post #46 of 47 (445 views)
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Re: [elightle] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not having groin pain like some people who have had hernia surgery.

it's my understanding that when you are really old and married, that most of the sensation in that area is gone anyway -

so that's a plus


elightle  (D 5966)

Nov 13, 2012, 8:39 AM
Post #47 of 47 (425 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Rotating Meeker exits... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...it's my understanding that when you are really old and married, that most of the sensation in that area is gone anyway -

so that's a plus

haha! Yes, but when I can't jump I wanna hump, even at my age! :)



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