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Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga)

 

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Andy9o8  (D License)

Jun 27, 2012, 5:59 PM
Post #26 of 59 (619 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] Fatal landing incident S. GA? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So what do you call someone who what's to make something so without any supporting evidence?

A clergyman.








airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 27, 2012, 6:14 PM
Post #30 of 59 (610 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Fatal landing incident S. GA? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So what do you call someone who wants to make something so without any supporting evidence?

A clergyman.


A woman? Angelic








nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 27, 2012, 8:52 PM
Post #34 of 59 (578 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

Guys for what it is worth as an outsider you are largely arguing over the same thing.

Chris clarified his position, but some of you are reading things into what he said that he didn't say.

I think the general point is. When doing a jump 'off dz' the mental issues and challenges are the same or similar to a demo. But that does not make it a demo jump.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jun 28, 2012, 2:43 AM
Post #35 of 59 (559 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Guys for what it is worth as an outsider you are largely arguing over the same thing.

Chris clarified his position, but some of you are reading things into what he said that he didn't say.

I think the general point is. When doing a jump 'off dz' the mental issues and challenges are the same or similar to a demo. But that does not make it a demo jump.

Yeah, we know. But we love to watch him fume over silly sh*t. Sly

He's been dragging that dead horse for a dozen posts now.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 28, 2012, 3:10 AM
Post #36 of 59 (553 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Guys for what it is worth as an outsider you are largely arguing over the same thing.

Chris clarified his position, but some of you are reading things into what he said that he didn't say.

I think the general point is. When doing a jump 'off dz' the mental issues and challenges are the same or similar to a demo. But that does not make it a demo jump.

Yeah, we know. But we love to watch him fume over silly sh*t. Sly

He's been dragging that dead horse for a dozen posts now.

Well I'll just break out the popcorn and watch.

Here's estion though. Saturday I am catching the ferry flight from 1 dz to another. I haven't jumped at the destination dz before. How does this fit the risk profile?
If I jump from the ferry that is.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jun 28, 2012, 3:19 AM
Post #37 of 59 (551 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Guys for what it is worth as an outsider you are largely arguing over the same thing.

Chris clarified his position, but some of you are reading things into what he said that he didn't say.

I think the general point is. When doing a jump 'off dz' the mental issues and challenges are the same or similar to a demo. But that does not make it a demo jump.

Yeah, we know. But we love to watch him fume over silly sh*t. Sly

He's been dragging that dead horse for a dozen posts now.

Well I'll just break out the popcorn and watch.

Here's estion though. Saturday I am catching the ferry flight from 1 dz to another. I haven't jumped at the destination dz before. How does this fit the risk profile?
If I jump from the ferry that is.

Always watch the horizon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEE2NFPDezM








Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 28, 2012, 10:02 AM
Post #41 of 59 (503 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] Fatal landing incident S. GA? [In reply to] Can't Post

Chris, Chuck - enough. This isn't speaker's corner.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 28, 2012, 10:11 AM
Post #42 of 59 (497 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

>If I jump from the ferry that is.

Interesting question.

The first set of risks are the usual risks that come from jumping at any new DZ - new hazards, new windbreaks, new traffic patterns (aircraft and parachute) new telltales of bad weather coming in, new sightpicture etc.

The second set of risks come from the somewhat unusual risks of not arriving at the DZ on foot. Which means you don't get to see it from the ground, you don't get a feel for where people land and where the plane loads, you don't get a briefing, you don't see the aerial picture, you don't talk to people on the ground beforehand etc. On all the demos we've done we've walked the area beforehand, because you can learn a lot more about the landing area from 5 feet than you can from 12,500. You won't know what the wind was before takeoff, so getting ATIS or the equivalent from the DZ is important.

The third set come from the ferry flight itself. Ferry flights longer than about 20 minutes are unusual and people often do unusual things - take their rigs off for a while (or make themselves unusually comfortable by loosening things), stowing gloves, helmets etc so you can wear a headset (which now means it's possible to lose them.) Your gear can also do strange things, like altimeters resetting after they have been at 5000 feet for an hour. Pilot chutes are often exposed to more of the aircraft so the odds of partly extracted PC's, popped pin and riser covers and snags go up. If the flight is high you will be at much greater risk for hypoxia; you'll be more hypoxic after a ferry flight at 10,000 feet than you will be during a jump from 12,500.

The fourth set come from being an unexpected arrival, which many ferry flights entail. You're going to appear over a DZ that's not expecting a load to drop. This generally isn't a problem as long as they know to expect you sometime (and do not do things like fly kites or let whuffos run their dogs around the DZ.)


DaVinciflies

Jun 28, 2012, 10:36 AM
Post #43 of 59 (489 views)
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Re: [billvon] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>If I jump from the ferry that is.

Interesting question.

The first set of risks are the usual risks that come from jumping at any new DZ - new hazards, new windbreaks, new traffic patterns (aircraft and parachute) new telltales of bad weather coming in, new sightpicture etc.

The second set of risks come from the somewhat unusual risks of not arriving at the DZ on foot. Which means you don't get to see it from the ground, you don't get a feel for where people land and where the plane loads, you don't get a briefing, you don't see the aerial picture, you don't talk to people on the ground beforehand etc. On all the demos we've done we've walked the area beforehand, because you can learn a lot more about the landing area from 5 feet than you can from 12,500. You won't know what the wind was before takeoff, so getting ATIS or the equivalent from the DZ is important.

The third set come from the ferry flight itself. Ferry flights longer than about 20 minutes are unusual and people often do unusual things - take their rigs off for a while (or make themselves unusually comfortable by loosening things), stowing gloves, helmets etc so you can wear a headset (which now means it's possible to lose them.) Your gear can also do strange things, like altimeters resetting after they have been at 5000 feet for an hour. Pilot chutes are often exposed to more of the aircraft so the odds of partly extracted PC's, popped pin and riser covers and snags go up. If the flight is high you will be at much greater risk for hypoxia; you'll be more hypoxic after a ferry flight at 10,000 feet than you will be during a jump from 12,500.

The fourth set come from being an unexpected arrival, which many ferry flights entail. You're going to appear over a DZ that's not expecting a load to drop. This generally isn't a problem as long as they know to expect you sometime (and do not do things like fly kites or let whuffos run their dogs around the DZ.)

There is also a risk involved with things like altimeter readings and AAD settings if there is a significant altitude difference between the two DZs.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 28, 2012, 12:58 PM
Post #44 of 59 (471 views)
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Re: [billvon] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Bill some interesting points. I knew about dz elevation differences but some other aspects I hadn't thought of.

Pretty sure it will be a hop and pop. Dzo is only letting B licenses and above on the plane. Jumping is subject to how we stow the bagage. It looks like there will be 3 of us in a Navajo.

It is tempting to jump as it is half the price of a jump ticket, but maybe I'll save jumping for the return leg on Sunday.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 28, 2012, 1:07 PM
Post #45 of 59 (467 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks Bill some interesting points. I knew about dz elevation differences but some other aspects I hadn't thought of.

Pretty sure it will be a hop and pop. Dzo is only letting B licenses and above on the plane. Jumping is subject to how we stow the baggage. It looks like there will be 3 of us in a Navajo.

It is tempting to jump as it is half the price of a jump ticket, but maybe I'll save jumping for the return leg on Sunday.



It's only Skydiving...what's the worse that could happen?! SlyWink


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 28, 2012, 2:23 PM
Post #46 of 59 (449 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Thanks Bill some interesting points. I knew about dz elevation differences but some other aspects I hadn't thought of.

Pretty sure it will be a hop and pop. Dzo is only letting B licenses and above on the plane. Jumping is subject to how we stow the baggage. It looks like there will be 3 of us in a Navajo.

It is tempting to jump as it is half the price of a jump ticket, but maybe I'll save jumping for the return leg on Sunday.



It's only Skydiving...what's the worse that could happen?! SlyWink

Being the only guy on plane, with a couple of hot chicks and then chickening out of the jump because it's a strange dz?Unsure


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 28, 2012, 2:25 PM
Post #47 of 59 (448 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

 

It's only Skydiving...what's the worse that could happen?! SlyWink
Being the only guy on plane, with a couple of hot chicks and then chickening out of the jump because it's a strange dz?Unsure

Egos heal much faster than bones! Wink


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jun 28, 2012, 2:50 PM
Post #48 of 59 (442 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

It's only Skydiving...what's the worse that could happen?! SlyWink

Being the only guy on plane, with a couple of hot chicks and then chickening out of the jump because it's a strange dz?Unsure

Egos heal much faster than bones! Wink
Fuck that. Chicks did scar and Titanium. Go big, Nigel... Wink


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 28, 2012, 3:22 PM
Post #49 of 59 (432 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

>It's only Skydiving...what's the worse that could happen?

One of the scariest jumps I almost did:

World Team 2004. Last day of the event. No record and it's pouring out. BJ has a plan:

"OK so here's what we're going to do. We're going to load up, take off, fly an hour west to beat the storm, fly over this abandoned Vietnam-era airbase, drop everyone from 26,000+ feet, get the record, land, load up the planes, then fly back. The landing area is huge. It'll be fine*."

Normally I think we would have been talked into such a plan, since to get on such records you have to be the kind of person who's willing to weather any adversity to get on the loads. But after a sketchy demo into downtown Bangkok that put a few people in the hospital there was a lot of apprehension over such schemes. Many people (me included) complained to team captains and organizers.

Finally a compromise was reached - we would go there, land, check out the landing areas, have breakoff and landing briefings, dirt dive and then go up. This was still a bit sketchy, combining a new landing area with the pressure everyone was under, but we agreed to it. We went there, landed, discovered the big area that had an antenna that was really more like a field of five foot spikes, took off and got the record. And even had time to do one more jump before the weather (and night) came in.

(* - because it wasn't a demo of course.)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 28, 2012, 3:24 PM
Post #50 of 59 (432 views)
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Re: [Remster] Demo vs "off DZ jump" (was: Fatal/S Ga) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

It's only Skydiving...what's the worse that could happen?! SlyWink

Being the only guy on plane, with a couple of hot chicks and then chickening out of the jump because it's a strange dz?Unsure


Egos heal much faster than bones! Wink
Fuck that. Chicks did scar and Titanium. Go big, Nigel... Wink
Unknown LZ's and Bimbos have something in common as far as jumping...when in doubt ~ Safer to Pull Out! Cool


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