Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Bad Tandem

 

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normiss  (D 28356)

Jun 5, 2012, 7:32 AM
Post #151 of 260 (5089 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

That's what I see in the video as well.
Quite the draw on luck with the lateral causing the backpad to fold under and catch her head like it did.


TheCaptain  (D License)

Jun 5, 2012, 7:52 AM
Post #152 of 260 (5077 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

You sure that is not a diagonal?

There does seem to be a loose strap coming from the left hip junction and flapping up past the Primary/Instructor Drogue Release Handle.

The Student Warning panel is so distorted over her left shoulder that I think the right Diagonal is what might have saved her.

Matt
I would find it hard to believe that it is a loose diagnol strap. It truely appears like the backstrap, to me anyways. While the top of the harness is all contorted the bottom isn't and that strap behind her head appears to be to run from hip connecting point to hip connecting point. Also the loose strap seen while she is walking to the plane could be the kind of tightened back strap with the extra not stowed.


(This post was edited by TheCaptain on Jun 5, 2012, 7:59 AM)
Attachments: badtandem.JPG (31.0 KB)


Skyflyer3  (D License)

Jun 5, 2012, 7:58 AM
Post #153 of 260 (5067 views)
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Re: [TheCaptain] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

You sure that is not a diagonal?

There does seem to be a loose strap coming from the left hip junction and flapping up past the Primary/Instructor Drogue Release Handle.

The Student Warning panel is so distorted over her left shoulder that I think the right Diagonal is what might have saved her.

Matt
I would find it hard to believe that it is a loose diagnol strap. It truely appears like the backstrap.

It also looks like she's holding onto the TI's chest strap or the PAX harness pack pad. There's no way her neck alone would have held up to the opening shock.

That's why I don't buy her story that she didn't know she was in any danger or that the TI didn't force her out of the plane. I'm positive she was payed off.




matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jun 5, 2012, 9:28 AM
Post #155 of 260 (5002 views)
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Re: [TheCaptain] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

You sure that is not a diagonal?

There does seem to be a loose strap coming from the left hip junction and flapping up past the Primary/Instructor Drogue Release Handle.

The Student Warning panel is so distorted over her left shoulder that I think the right Diagonal is what might have saved her.

Matt
I would find it hard to believe that it is a loose diagnol strap. It truely appears like the backstrap, to me anyways. While the top of the harness is all contorted the bottom isn't and that strap behind her head appears to be to run from hip connecting point to hip connecting point. Also the loose strap seen while she is walking to the plane could be the kind of tightened back strap with the extra not stowed.

I would have found it hard to believe some one would make an Instructional Jump adjusted like this, but it happened.

We would need a real large frame, slow high res play back, then maybe we can see what saved her life, but we know it wasn't the T-I ("I" used very loosely).

Matt








gowlerk  (C 3196)

Jun 5, 2012, 7:27 PM
Post #159 of 260 (4705 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

     Ok, everyone is quite upset at this event, and all kinds of things have been said about the TI. Obviously this is about as close to disaster as it gets without death. But I'm not completely convinced that the harness was all that loose.

Just for fun try harnessing a small person. Then have them sit on the floor and tuck their knees up to their chin and watch the legstraps slide up to their knees. I believe that is what happened in the door. This was likely a somewhat loose harness, but not too bad. Then in the struggle to exit when her bum went down and her knees went up she slid nearly out, and the TI did not notice.

This was caused by the usual chain of small events building up to near disaster. The lessons I take are that even a little loose is too loose. Also I suspect that the hip junction was too high, which may make the loop formed by the legstrap larger than it needs to be, allowing the sitting passenger to slide out even though the system may have appeared tight when she was standing, or even seated. And of course most of all this shows the need to be aware of what is going on even when you are busy in the door trying to exit. This is a tough one, but if the TI had seen what the harness was doing just before exit, he never would have left the aircraft.

I would encourage every TI to try and see what a harness can do when a passenger goes fetal like that. You may learn something. I'm sure the one in question here did.

Ken


brofromanomo  (D License)

Jun 7, 2012, 3:31 PM
Post #160 of 260 (4246 views)
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Re: [Skyflyer3] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

It also looks like she's holding onto the TI's chest strap or the PAX harness pack pad. There's no way her neck alone would have held up to the opening shock.

That's why I don't buy her story that she didn't know she was in any danger or that the TI didn't force her out of the plane. I'm positive she was payed off.

It definitely appears as though she is holding on to a strap while the TI & Videographer were attempting to readjust her leg straps.

As for her statement that she didn't know she was in any danger, I too find that VERY hard to believe. She had to feel like she was literally about ready to fall out the harness, it looks like she is holding on to a strap fro dear life, and she had to realize something was wrong when she was skydiving face-up. That being said, Bill Dause is both cheap and arrogant. "Bill has never made a mistake in all his life." I thus find it equally hard to believe that Bill Dause thinks HE or the drop zone did anything wrong which would require paying her off. So perhaps she is just in denial?

~Timmy


Skyflyer3  (D License)

Jun 7, 2012, 9:28 PM
Post #161 of 260 (4198 views)
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Re: [brofromanomo] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
That being said, Bill Dause is both cheap and arrogant. "Bill has never made a mistake in all his life." I thus find it equally hard to believe that Bill Dause thinks HE or the drop zone did anything wrong which would require paying her off. So perhaps she is just in denial?

~Timmy

Yet another possibility.
In the end it doesn't matter.
The video speaks for itself.


swoopgaz  (E 1964)

Jun 8, 2012, 10:30 PM
Post #162 of 260 (3935 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ok, everyone is quite upset at this event, and all kinds of things have been said about the TI. Obviously this is about as close to disaster as it gets without death. But I'm not completely convinced that the harness was all that loose.

Just for fun try harnessing a small person. Then have them sit on the floor and tuck their knees up to their chin and watch the legstraps slide up to their knees. I believe that is what happened in the door. This was likely a somewhat loose harness, but not too bad. Then in the struggle to exit when her bum went down and her knees went up she slid nearly out, and the TI did not notice.

This was caused by the usual chain of small events building up to near disaster. The lessons I take are that even a little loose is too loose. Also I suspect that the hip junction was too high, which may make the loop formed by the legstrap larger than it needs to be, allowing the sitting passenger to slide out even though the system may have appeared tight when she was standing, or even seated. And of course most of all this shows the need to be aware of what is going on even when you are busy in the door trying to exit. This is a tough one, but if the TI had seen what the harness was doing just before exit, he never would have left the aircraft.

I would encourage every TI to try and see what a harness can do when a passenger goes fetal like that. You may learn something. I'm sure the one in question here did.

Ken

That's my take on what happened here.

Once a student is in a feotal position where their knees are up at their chest like that, a properly adjusted harness can pull straight order the student like that, the student falls out the bottom. Properly
attached to the tandem master at the side adjusters will minimise this.

This is why bungees started appearing on sports rigs and now the 'Y' mod on student harnesses, to stop the leg straps moving forward to the knees creating a big hole in the back of the harness for the person to fall out through.

IMO With the passenger stuck in the door, knees at her chest the tm has inadvertently pull the harness over her head trying to roll her out the door. Remember she wasn't refusing in the door.


hangdiver  (D License)

Jun 9, 2012, 8:48 AM
Post #163 of 260 (3851 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
I would encourage every TI to try and see what a harness can do when a passenger goes fetal like that. You may learn something. I'm sure the one in question here did.

+1...I also encourage TIs to try this with an experienced jumper...you might be surprised...

I can take off any sport rig I've ever jumped in 1 second going fetal...over my head...it freaks people out.
you can fall out of most any harness under the right/wrong conditions...I'm not making excuses for this TI...but a disaster is only one jump away for all of us...what can...will go wrong...

eta: once the leg straps go up the legs to the knees all bets are off...period!

hangdiver


(This post was edited by hangdiver on Jun 9, 2012, 8:52 AM)


dride

Jun 11, 2012, 9:40 AM
Post #164 of 260 (3517 views)
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Re: [swoopgaz] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

"Remember she wasn't refusing in the door."

That's a load of BS. You clearly see her say "NO" several times. I dont care what she says on the ground in her post interview. She was scared shitless and didn't want to jump. The TI forced her out of the door...period.


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Oct 6, 2012, 7:06 AM
Post #165 of 260 (3077 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.ktvu.com/...y-woman-nearl/nSTgz/

"LODI, Calif. More than a year and half has passed since a video of the skydiving grandmother who nearly fell out of her harness went viral on YouTube, and now a Northern California professional parachutist is now being fined.

In May, 2011, 80-year-old Laverne Everett went skydiving in Lodi for her birthday and though she was attached to a professional parachutist, the video shows her legs slipping out of the harness.
The Federal Aviation Administration told KTVU that the skydiving professional, Dennis McGlynn, is being fined $2,200 for violating federal aviation regulations, namely improperly fitting the harness and exiting the aircraft improperly.
To this day, Everett maintains she was not injured and didn't blame anyone, but after a relative uploaded the video to the Internet a year later, the video went viral.
Not only was the incident not suppressed by the company, it was recorded on video by another person and Everett was given her own copy of it. The video didn't surface on the Internet until a year later.

After the incident, many people, including Everett, said it was being overblown.

"She didn't have any idea what was going on," said Bill Dause of the Parachute Center. "(She) had a very good time and still is interested in jumping again at some point in time."

"They thought I was very brave, but it's just something I've wanted to do for a long time," Everett said. "Once you get on that edge that's another story. My upper harness came off. You know, it just slipped down."

Dause said the incident made kind of a big splash. "Unfortunately some of the information was misleading or incorrect," he said.

Everett even said she wasn't forced out of the airplane, Dause said, and there was no way she could have fallen out the harness or she would have."


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 6, 2012, 10:21 AM
Post #166 of 260 (2983 views)
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Re: [ltdiver] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
and there was no way she could have fallen out the harness or she would


Horse Shit!!!


DougH  (D License)

Oct 6, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #167 of 260 (2877 views)
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Re: [ltdiver] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Dause said the incident made kind of a big splash. "Unfortunately some of the information was misleading or incorrect," he said.

Everett even said she wasn't forced out of the airplane, Dause said, and there was no way she could have fallen out the harness or she would have."

Mr. Dause you are a filthy fucking liar.


dorbie

Oct 11, 2012, 3:11 PM
Post #168 of 260 (2268 views)
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Re: [ltdiver] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Dause said, and there was no way she could have fallen out the harness or she would have."

If he said that and he believes that then he should sell his rigs and take up bowling. Maybe he can run a bowling alley instead.


NSEMN8R  (D 26397)

Oct 11, 2012, 4:18 PM
Post #169 of 260 (2217 views)
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Re: [ltdiver] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The Federal Aviation Administration told KTVU that the skydiving professional, Dennis McGlynn, is being fined $2,200 for violating federal aviation regulations, namely improperly fitting the harness and exiting the aircraft improperly.

Same dude that used to make the Vision Velcro container? Or just the same name?


Liemberg  (Student)

Oct 11, 2012, 4:27 PM
Post #170 of 260 (2209 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Since I have a lousy memory and no gusto whatsoever to re-read the whole thread, please enlighten me on the sequence of things: In the past a paraplegic and an obese woman fell out of a tandem-passengers harness on two seperate occasions. Was this BEFORE or AFTER granny went skydiving at Bill Dause's fine establishment?

Were there not improvements mandatory installed in the passengers harness of at least one tandem-manufacturer and available for equipment from other manufacturers, including the system that was used in the jump in question?

Being on another side of an ocean and myself retired from the skydiving business I can fully sympathize with anyone willing to run an asylum for decades in a row before the lunatics take over so I don't have an axe to grind with mr. Dause but it is my opinion that once you have to resort to plain stupidity in explaining things to the press you tend to lose your credibility and more important: your integrity.

Not a pleasant thing to watch.


The_Don  (B License)

Oct 11, 2012, 6:17 PM
Post #171 of 260 (2131 views)
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Re: [Liemberg] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Both before granny.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 11, 2012, 8:33 PM
Post #172 of 260 (2059 views)
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Re: [NSEMN8R] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The Federal Aviation Administration told KTVU that the skydiving professional, Dennis McGlynn, is being fined $2,200 for violating federal aviation regulations, namely improperly fitting the harness and exiting the aircraft improperly.

Same dude that used to make the Vision Velcro container? Or just the same name?

I think the answer is Yes, same guy. Why? what is the relevance?

Matt


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 12, 2012, 12:03 PM
Post #173 of 260 (1740 views)
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Re: [NSEMN8R] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The Federal Aviation Administration told KTVU that the skydiving professional, Dennis McGlynn, is being fined $2,200 for violating federal aviation regulations, namely improperly fitting the harness and exiting the aircraft improperly.

This may be a bit off topic, but.....
What power does the FAA have to enforce this fine or to collect? Just courious?Cool


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 12, 2012, 3:35 PM
Post #174 of 260 (1642 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The Federal Aviation Administration told KTVU that the skydiving professional, Dennis McGlynn, is being fined $2,200 for violating federal aviation regulations, namely improperly fitting the harness and exiting the aircraft improperly.

This may be a bit off topic, but.....
What power does the FAA have to enforce this fine or to collect? Just courious?Cool

I'm guessing they could yank his medical certificate.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 12, 2012, 4:18 PM
Post #175 of 260 (1618 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
The Federal Aviation Administration told KTVU that the skydiving professional, Dennis McGlynn, is being fined $2,200 for violating federal aviation regulations, namely improperly fitting the harness and exiting the aircraft improperly.

This may be a bit off topic, but.....
What power does the FAA have to enforce this fine or to collect? Just courious?Cool

I'm guessing they could yank his medical certificate.

They file a suit in court, he then loses far more than 2500~ bucks.

Matt


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