Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Bad Tandem

 

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format  (B 15348)

May 25, 2012, 4:39 PM
Post #51 of 260 (3288 views)
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Re: [fifthfloyd] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...but I wish this hadn't have gotten out like it did.

"Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead".
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

Luckily all alive and no secrets.


LyraM45  (B 26378)

May 25, 2012, 8:58 PM
Post #52 of 260 (3140 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
If its cool and normal for longtime Joe Cool-"TI"s to board the plane with dangling harnesses [..]

Just look at the pics attached. The second one shows the dangling harness on the old lady, poor enough. BTW: Why the heck does her TI carry her cane? I bet he didn't take it with them into the plane so whom did he give it? Anyway...
Pic 1 is even more annoying to me. It's a rule at our DZ that the students - once they leave the hangar - are never to be left unattended. Have a look: There's a young girl with a pax harness (and also in a not really suitable outfit - i. e. no jumpsuit) that is completely on her own. You can see two other students not attended/guided by their TIs. I'd rather be told "This is not ConAir, please do not guide/carry your pax by grabbing his chest strap even when standing next to the door and rather grab one of the laterals" but to leave a student alone with the aircraft (and the prop running) close-by.

Just for German-speaking readers: I wonder when this shit is gonna hit the RTL/SAT.1 fan Crazy

Unfortunately this, and lots of other crazy stuff, is the norm at some DZ's..... some more than others. Crazy


PommyG  (F 715)

May 26, 2012, 12:04 AM
Post #53 of 260 (3050 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

As a tandem master in Australia I will say there never is, or ever will be, ANY excuse for leaving an aircraft with a student who says they do not want to jump. If they show any signs of refusal then you should be asking if they do not want to jump. This is what the TM should have been doing in this instance as the student was obviously having second thoughts. He was not in a position where not jumping would be dangerous, they were in a large aircraft where moving aside was a definite option. We jump from a 182 & only last week I had a guy change his mind. He was clearly terrified so we swapped around in a fully loaded 182 & we landed in the aircraft. No skin off my nose & certainly not worth risking a law suit for $40!
Does anyone know if any action has been taken against this reckless individual?
Glad to see that luckily no one was injured.....or worse.




redramdriver  (C License)

May 26, 2012, 3:10 AM
Post #55 of 260 (2993 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Looked this morning...now its on the front cover page of Yahoo.com


Squeak  (E 1313)

May 26, 2012, 3:48 AM
Post #56 of 260 (2975 views)
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Re: [redramdriver] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Looked this morning...now its on the front cover page of Yahoo.com
it was just screened on our national news service here in OZ


grimmie  (D 18890)

May 26, 2012, 5:33 AM
Post #57 of 260 (2920 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been in an airport access battle for just over two years. Just when I get a business license and lease agreement, now I am on my way to see the airport management company and explain things to them. The city attorney forwarded the video to them and wants some explaining to be done.


alec86  (C 109831)

May 26, 2012, 5:49 AM
Post #58 of 260 (2904 views)
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Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

just for the record and to clear this up to stop this leading the thread she was NOT forced out against her will...., if you disagree see link below...

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/...-harness-after-jump/


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 26, 2012, 6:32 AM
Post #59 of 260 (2855 views)
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Re: [aphid] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You silly foreign buggers. This is North America*, the Land of Free Enterprise. It's all about the money

Most DZs in the US have a policy that once the plane is taxiiing down the runway, the student has spent all of their money. It's explained to them ahead of time, and reinforced if they seem hesitant any at point before boarding the aircraft.

Every DZ I have worked at has always offered some consession to a jumper who backed out in the door. It was typically a chance to jump again for slot cost, or sometimes no cost at all.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

May 26, 2012, 7:42 AM
Post #60 of 260 (2801 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/...-harness-after-jump/

in the above link, she states that she wasn't pushed out nor resisting the TI. She says her knees gave out and she was trying to support herself.

She also explains she didn't know she was in any kind of predicament until she saw the video later. It was her sister that posted the video on Youtube so it could be shared with family members (according to the article and accompanying video)


BobMoore  (D 13136)

May 26, 2012, 8:04 AM
Post #61 of 260 (2778 views)
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Re: [DSE] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

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It was her sister that posted the video on Youtube so it could be shared with family members (according to the article and accompanying video)

I wonder why her sister waited so long to post it to YouTube so family members could see it, or is it only now that the world is aware of it?


accur8shot  (A License)

May 26, 2012, 8:36 AM
Post #62 of 260 (2744 views)
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Re: [fifthfloyd] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, the video IS great for the sport. I think it should be required viewing for all prospective tandem instructors. I doubt the video is going to scare away anyone who's been thinking about jumping. Nerves are one thing, but if a person is apprehensive to begin with, maybe they shouldn't be jumping in the first place.

You can learn as much from a bad example of something as you can from a good one.


excaza  (C License)

May 26, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #63 of 260 (2711 views)
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Re: [DSE] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
She also explains she didn't know she was in any kind of predicament until she saw the video later.
I don't believe that for a second.


isle

May 26, 2012, 9:43 AM
Post #64 of 260 (2694 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

You can fell out same way even from a properly tightened rig if your chute opens when you are in a sit fly position.


Skyflyer3  (D License)

May 26, 2012, 10:41 AM
Post #65 of 260 (2645 views)
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Re: [isle] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You can fell out same way even from a properly tightened rig if your chute opens when you are in a sit fly position.

1/3 of my passengers are in a sit position.
I've never lost one.


jclalor  (B 33202)

May 26, 2012, 10:56 AM
Post #66 of 260 (2623 views)
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Re: [alec86] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In reply to:
just for the record and to clear this up to stop this leading the thread she was NOT forced out against her will...., if you disagree see link below...

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/...-harness-after-jump/

Anyone that gives that much of an impression that they don't want to jump, should be left on the plane. I have never seen a tandem clutch at the door the way she did. Then again, according to her, the jump went fine.

I think she's being nice to the TI.


robinheid  (D 5533)

May 26, 2012, 10:57 AM
Post #67 of 260 (2622 views)
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Re: [grimmie] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have been in an airport access battle for just over two years. Just when I get a business license and lease agreement, now I am on my way to see the airport management company and explain things to them. The city attorney forwarded the video to them and wants some explaining to be done.

So explain it to them:

In almost 30 years of tandem jumps and approximately 30 MILLION tandem jumps, there have been two or three fall-out-of-harness fatalities, this one near miss, and 20-some (?) total tandem fatalities -- WORLDWIDE.

I'll let a math major figure out the stats, but that is a totally effing amazing safety record, though you'd never know it from the slobbering pseudo-whuffos spewing poop on this thread.

Another thing: Despite the mistakes leading up to the exit, the TI absolutely refused to let his passenger die; he solved a never-before-seen problem on the fly and they landed without injury on the DZ.

Really, people, whatever happened to the "any jump you can walk away from is a good jump"?

Yeah, it was kinda weird in the middle, but the end result was the same as 99.9999 percent of all tandem jumps; a safe landing and a satisfied customer.

44
Cool


seaweedknees

May 26, 2012, 11:47 AM
Post #68 of 260 (2581 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

I have never heard such a stupid comment. Look at the pic of her in the door, her leg straps were round her knees, its negligence.

To say the TI did a good job as dealt with a problem on the fly is just idiotic. Its the same as a plane crash when the out of control aircraft narrowly misses a school, kindergarten, hospital etc just because of the expert hero pilot. Utter BS.

He almost killed her and it was pure luck and luck alone that meant she could walk away. You can clearly see in the video there is nothing he can do so pulls. You think he could hold onto her during deployment? Not a chance, it was luck that her legs were hooked or her arm was caught or something that saved her from falling out completely.


Skyflyer3  (D License)

May 26, 2012, 12:00 PM
Post #69 of 260 (2564 views)
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Re: [seaweedknees] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

+ 1,000,000

Well said!
It was pure luck this didn't end with a fatality.


grimmie  (D 18890)

May 26, 2012, 12:04 PM
Post #70 of 260 (2560 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

I did.Mad

Check your stats on world wide tandem fatlities.Frown


format  (B 15348)

May 26, 2012, 1:25 PM
Post #71 of 260 (2506 views)
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Re: [accur8shot] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Actually, the video IS great for the sport. I think it should be required viewing for all prospective tandem instructors. I doubt the video is going to scare away anyone who's been thinking about jumping...

I showed the video to a 80 year old lady, who's been waiting to jump for two years now. She's been very excited to see it and wants to jump now even more then ever. She knows exactly whom with and is patient accordingly.
Coincidently, that TM uses 'Y' strap AND a knees_lifter strap for landing. He doesn't want cessna for her and not less than 4kts winds.


LyraM45  (B 26378)

May 26, 2012, 1:38 PM
Post #72 of 260 (2486 views)
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Re: [Skyflyer3] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
+ 1,000,000

Well said!
It was pure luck this didn't end with a fatality.

Another +1,000,000 from me!!!! Totally asinine to say that this guy did anything well or had anything to do with her surviving this jump. Homeboy got lucky!!


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

May 26, 2012, 7:04 PM
Post #73 of 260 (2268 views)
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Re: [LyraM45] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
+ 1,000,000

Well said!
It was pure luck this didn't end with a fatality.

Another +1,000,000 from me!!!! Totally asinine to say that this guy did anything well or had anything to do with her surviving this jump. Homeboy got lucky!!

Sometimes "Dumb Luck" is the best solution for "Outright Stupid".

Something that bothered me was the method used to move his student into the door. As her legs became pinned underneath her, the TI doesn't seem to realize it. That and the fact that (as seen in the door before exit) the harness is clearly not adjusted properly.


nigel99  (D 1)

May 26, 2012, 8:19 PM
Post #74 of 260 (2204 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
+ 1,000,000

Well said!
It was pure luck this didn't end with a fatality.

Another +1,000,000 from me!!!! Totally asinine to say that this guy did anything well or had anything to do with her surviving this jump. Homeboy got lucky!!

Sometimes "Dumb Luck" is the best solution for "Outright Stupid".

Something that bothered me was the method used to move his student into the door. As her legs became pinned underneath her, the TI doesn't seem to realize it. That and the fact that (as seen in the door before exit) the harness is clearly not adjusted properly.

How do you TI's deal with fragile elderly people? While this particular jump is screwed up beyond belief ,it's not that uncommon for people in their late 60's and older to do tandems. They aren't that flexible so how do you deal with them 'properly' in the aircraft?


pchapman  (D 1014)

May 26, 2012, 10:03 PM
Post #75 of 260 (2138 views)
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Re: [grimmie] Bad Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The city attorney forwarded the video to them and wants some explaining to be done.

Forward a picture of a car crash to the attorney and ask what the heck is up with all those "roads" and "cars" in the municipality. Demand an explanation!

(Of course I'm not being serious, unless you want to be like the DZ sending out "I love airplane noise" stickers to the opposition...)


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