Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Tandem jump goes to sh*t...

 

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sky4meplease  (D 30360)

Jun 1, 2012, 5:00 AM
Post #201 of 230 (3013 views)
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Re: [bigdad510] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

When I watched this video I thought the TI was going to break granny's legs trying to force her out of the aircraft.

It seemed to me he felt rushed. Plane full of jumpers behind him, jump run being strung out, camera guy filming from outside the jump ship.

Maybe they should have taken a step back to regroup.

Most tandem students are scared to shit and will act unpredictably in the face of that fear. Knowing when that fear may affect the safety of the jump is the mark of a true instructor. Once you think you have seen it all.... it's time to find a new discipline or sport.

All students are different, there is no magically safe tandem exit and skydiving is dangerous. That's what makes being a tandem instructor so awesome!


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jun 1, 2012, 7:47 AM
Post #202 of 230 (2955 views)
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Re: [sky4meplease] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is the FULL interview with her:

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/...ess-while-skydiving/


(This post was edited by skydiverek on Jun 1, 2012, 7:47 AM)


NotASalmon  (D 21412)

Jun 1, 2012, 8:19 PM
Post #203 of 230 (2799 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow...what a grand lady...I'd be proud to take her on her 85th birthday...What'd she weigh, 90lbs?...easy exit, quick drogue release...too bad a junior TI was chosen' to do a mans job..


(This post was edited by NotASalmon on Jun 1, 2012, 8:27 PM)


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jun 1, 2012, 8:41 PM
Post #204 of 230 (2789 views)
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Re: [NotASalmon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wow...what a grand lady...I'd be proud to take her on her 85th birthday...What'd she weigh, 90lbs?...easy exit, quick drogue release...too bad a junior TI was chosen' to do a mans job..

So, a TI with 3000 tandems to his credit is a junior TI? Crazy


NotASalmon  (D 21412)

Jun 1, 2012, 9:09 PM
Post #205 of 230 (2780 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

If he tumbles out in a fetal...Yup. Go ahead and explain it away...Ever read the manual?...Seems like we used to have rules to LIVE by...


(This post was edited by NotASalmon on Jun 1, 2012, 9:17 PM)


NotASalmon  (D 21412)

Jun 1, 2012, 9:30 PM
Post #206 of 230 (2771 views)
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Re: [NotASalmon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Name me one discipline in skydiving where an unstable exit is acceptable for a first time jumper, and I'll be done here.

My name is Scott Jennings...D-21412


(This post was edited by NotASalmon on Jun 1, 2012, 10:16 PM)


bakerjan

Jun 3, 2012, 12:46 PM
Post #207 of 230 (2577 views)
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Re: [NotASalmon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Name me one discipline in skydiving where an unstable exit is acceptable for a first time jumper, and I'll be done here.

My name is Scott Jennings...D-21412

What are you trying to say. There are no disciplines for first time jumpers just a first jump.


NotASalmon  (D 21412)

Jun 3, 2012, 6:30 PM
Post #208 of 230 (2472 views)
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Re: [bakerjan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Static line (old days), AFF, AFP. Sorry, I guess I didn't word that correctly. First time jumps are exciting enough, no need for the somersaults and delayed drogue toss.


normiss  (D 28356)

Jun 3, 2012, 7:07 PM
Post #209 of 230 (2461 views)
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Re: [NotASalmon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not defending the hammerhead that tried to kill this lovely lady.....BUT.....we are taught unstable exits for a reason, no?
Surely an elderly student needs a radical exit every now and then!
Angelic


(This post was edited by normiss on Jun 3, 2012, 8:53 PM)


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 3, 2012, 7:28 PM
Post #210 of 230 (2453 views)
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Re: [normiss] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not defending the hammerhead that tried to kill this lovely lady.....BUT.....we are taught unstable exits for a reason, no?
Surely an elderly student needs a radical exit every now any then!
Angelic

Well if she is going to learn to free fly she should at least have been wearing a gopro. Everybody knows you're not a real free flier till you wear a cameraTongue


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jun 3, 2012, 8:54 PM
Post #211 of 230 (2418 views)
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Re: [NotASalmon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If he tumbles out in a fetal...Yup. Go ahead and explain it away...Ever read the manual?...Seems like we used to have rules to LIVE by...

That jump just proved that it doesn't matter how many fucking tandems you've done. If you get complacent even once, like this guy did, shit will get fucked up.

He had 3000 tandems and still fucked up. Still inexcusable, but it doesn't make him a junior TI. Hell, I've never heard of anybody being called a junior TI. Laugh New, or inexperienced, yeah.


NotASalmon  (D 21412)

Jun 4, 2012, 9:54 PM
Post #212 of 230 (2149 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
If he tumbles out in a fetal...Yup. Go ahead and explain it away...Ever read the manual?...Seems like we used to have rules to LIVE by...

That jump just proved that it doesn't matter how many fucking tandems you've done. If you get complacent even once, like this guy did, shit will get fucked up.

He had 3000 tandems and still fucked up. Still inexcusable, but it doesn't make him a junior TI. Hell, I've never heard of anybody being called a junior TI. Laugh New, or inexperienced, yeah.

Complacent? What the hell is that? 3000 tandems and he's become complacent? 3000 lives saved, and he's become "complacent". Bullshit.

As long as I live, they live. Complacency doesn't factor. Professionalism does. He's a junior TI.

What's his name? Give us his USPA number. I don't believe for a minute that he had anywhere near 3000 tandems. Complacent...that's funny...Don't want to smirch his good record...In all my 100's of tandem videos I've shot, I've never witnessed that kind of...complacency.

This TI wasn't complacent. He was either poorly trained, or chose to ignore said training. That's it. If this was the first time he fucked up...I'll eat my drogue.


NotASalmon  (D 21412)

Jun 4, 2012, 10:45 PM
Post #213 of 230 (2134 views)
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Re: [NotASalmon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey guys, sorry for hijacking this thread. I'm out of the business, just butting in. Blue skies folks, carry on, no offense intended. I hope the day never comes that I can't see my brothers and sisters popping canopies somewhere.
Again, Bue Skies from the heart.


packerboy  (C 34282)

Jun 24, 2012, 6:35 AM
Post #214 of 230 (1673 views)
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Re: [Wags] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Nobody could say for sure, but I wonder what would have happened if he would have done side spin recovery techniques? I never even saw him put his hands out to attempt an arch on exit.
Maybe this was discussed earlier, sorry, I didnt read the entire thread.

Ive had two tandems that started into side spins, and I went fetal (on our backs) to get control of the student, then pulled them into the arch, and we flipped nicely in to a stable face to earth position, and I deployed the drogue into clean air.

Going on your back intentionally in a tandem is something that seems very unnatural, and counterproductive, but in a side spin, the worst thing to do is keep a hard arch as the student further separates from you. The hard arch from the instructor at this time will further add to the propeller effect, and the speed of the spin. This is what killed the people before side spins were studied and solutions were found. This TI dumped his drogue, and was lucky it didnt snag on anything, that would have made a bad situation, even worse.

I am not in any way saying I could have handled this better, but just want to know what others think.
The key to good side spin recovery is to act fast, not sure if he could have gone fetal quick enough, but it does help to get control of your student. If you are able to capture their legs, you are golden!

Here is a link to a video of one of my side spins. I am sure some will think I did the wrong thing, I am not posting here so I can be flogged, but for the added discussion on the topic. I am sure many out there have seen the side spin training videos, and I was following what they suggest to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET9jfZtcQsU

Wags


That was awesome! A true expert shown in action! Hats off.


raff

Jun 26, 2012, 5:38 AM
Post #215 of 230 (1520 views)
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Re: [sky4meplease] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... That's what makes being a tandem instructor so awesome!The main thing "awesome" about being a TI is the responsibility. Once one loses sight of that, things can go to hell in a hurry.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jun 26, 2012, 8:39 AM
Post #216 of 230 (1486 views)
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Re: [raff] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
.... That's what makes being a tandem instructor so awesome!
The main thing "awesome" about being a TI is the responsibility. Once one loses sight of that, things can go to hell in a hurry.
The truth.

Matt


robinheid  (D 5533)

Jun 26, 2012, 9:25 AM
Post #217 of 230 (1465 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
.... That's what makes being a tandem instructor so awesome!
The main thing "awesome" about being a TI is the responsibility. Once one loses sight of that, things can go to hell in a hurry.

The truth.

Matt
+1

Funny story on that score. The Bush twins made tandem jumps at a SoCal DZ in July 2001, and the same TI was tasked with taking them both because he was the DZ's best.

So I asked him afterward how it felt to have the lives of the President's daughters in his hands. His reply:

"I just kept saying to myself, 'Don't hurt the President's daughters or the IRS will audit you for life. Don't hurt the President's daughters or the IRS will audit you for life.'"

44
Cool


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jun 26, 2012, 9:42 AM
Post #218 of 230 (1456 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the T-I's that took their Grandfather on his Tandems told me a similar story, but his was with a CIA van and long lost lands.

Matt


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Jun 26, 2012, 10:21 AM
Post #219 of 230 (1436 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
One of the T-I's that took their Grandfather on his Tandems told me a similar story, but his was with a CIA van and long lost lands.

Matt

I think the word you're looking for is "Rendition".


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jun 26, 2012, 10:31 AM
Post #220 of 230 (1424 views)
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Re: [Skydivesg] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
One of the T-I's that took their Grandfather on his Tandems told me a similar story, but his was with a CIA van and long lost lands.

Matt

I think the word you're looking for is "Rendition".

What do you mean, I'm now an enemy combatant?????

Sly


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jun 26, 2012, 10:44 AM
Post #221 of 230 (1417 views)
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Re: [Skydivesg] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
One of the T-I's that took their Grandfather on his Tandems told me a similar story, but his was with a CIA van and long lost lands.

Matt

I think the word you're looking for is "Rendition".

Maybe, there was an IRS agent, SS Agent, and a dude from NASA too.

Matt


av8rdav  (C 24395)

Oct 9, 2012, 10:22 PM
Post #222 of 230 (1029 views)
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Re: [-ftp-] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

The instructor didn't, in a way, force her out the door. Search for the Today Show video and you can hear from her the story. You are all judging the instructor without knowing the full story. Video does not always reveal everything that was going on at the time.


(This post was edited by av8rdav on Oct 9, 2012, 10:23 PM)


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Oct 10, 2012, 1:47 AM
Post #223 of 230 (998 views)
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Re: [av8rdav] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The instructor didn't, in a way, force her out the door. Search for the Today Show video and you can hear from her the story. You are all judging the instructor without knowing the full story. Video does not always reveal everything that was going on at the time.

Or, she was bribed to say so. Unimpressed


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 10, 2012, 5:50 AM
Post #224 of 230 (947 views)
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Re: [av8rdav] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The instructor didn't, in a way, force her out the door. Search for the Today Show video and you can hear from her the story. You are all judging the instructor without knowing the full story. Video does not always reveal everything that was going on at the time.

The problem with listening to what she says is that's way after the fact. This jump happened sometime last year, and the video didn't go viral until one of her relatives posted it online.

So you have a woman who made a jump, was unharmed, and felt like she had a good time and was well taken care of. In her minds eye, everything went according to plan, and she held those beliefs for a year.

How many tandem students have you seen who are scared shitless in the door, and only end up jumping because they are too scared to even protest the process of moving to the door and exiting? These same jumpers will land, and then proclaim that they had a great time and that they loved every minute of it. There's something about standing safely on terra-firma that tends to 'alter' their veiw of how it all went down.

Forget about the interview on the Today show, or anything else you heard about this jump. Let's say that the woman did fall out of the harness, so all you had to go by was the video. Does it appear that she is a willing participant at the time of exit?


DougH  (D License)

Oct 10, 2012, 6:36 AM
Post #225 of 230 (926 views)
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Re: [av8rdav] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The instructor didn't, in a way, force her out the door. Search for the Today Show video and you can hear from her the story. You are all judging the instructor without knowing the full story. Video does not always reveal everything that was going on at the time.

Another one of Dause's faithful followers? We know you love Bill and his cheap jump tickets at all costs.

It doesn't matter what she says on the Today Show, I am inclined to think that the drop-zone fed her a whole line of bullshit puppies and flowers. It doesn't even matter if she ACTUALLY wanted to jump.

1st and foremost her harness was not adjusted properly. Her willingness is irrelevant here. Here tandem instructor flushed her safety down the drain before they even boarded the plane.

2nd even if she wasn't refusing to go in the door, that exit was absolute shit. The instructor should have backed up and re-evaluated the exit. Instead he barreled over grandma, effectively stripping the poorly fitted harness off of her. If he put more effort on correcting the exit in the door, instead of rushing out, we probably never would have known what a shit job he did on the harness!


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