Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Tandem jump goes to sh*t...

 

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SpectreDriver  (D 26287)

May 27, 2012, 3:41 AM
Post #176 of 230 (3120 views)
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Re: [wetrock] tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Perfect timing on this video, too. Right in the middle of Memorial Day weekend, one of my busiest. Sunday's tandems will be arriving in a few hours-- or not.

As someone mentioned earlier, I think the exit had a LOT to do with this. By rolling OVER her he basically peeled the harness right off!

Nobody's mentioned this TIs name?? I'd like to know. As would other DZOs who get a dozen resumes a year from self-proclaimed SkyGods we don't know from Adam...


TitaniumLegs  (D 19246)

May 27, 2012, 8:54 AM
Post #177 of 230 (3027 views)
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Re: [markbdaniels] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
According to Laverne, she was not pushed out - http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/...-harness-after-jump/ Shocked
In reply to the question what's next on her bucket list...
"Well I never have ridden in a race car"
Good for her.

Lucky for them.


TitaniumLegs  (D 19246)

May 27, 2012, 9:00 AM
Post #178 of 230 (3021 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Every FAA official I have worked with - and there have been many - asked that we follow the rules as written, nothing more, nothing less.
Ditto.
All the FAA guys I've dealt with have been extremely helpful. Generally nicer people than some airport managers, and even a few DZOs.


bclark  (D 22626)

May 27, 2012, 9:33 AM
Post #179 of 230 (3011 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don`t know why it`s banned, but here is Sendspace link

If you were foolish, unlucky, or desperate enough to try to use this link to watch the video during the brief time it was unavailable on youtube (like me), you may have had your web browser hijacked by "searchnu.com/406."

Here is a link to a page to help you get your stuff straight again: http://deletemalware.blogspot.ca/...uninstall-guide.html.

Sorry to get off topic, but I know at least a few others had this happen to them.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2012, 9:41 AM
Post #180 of 230 (3005 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
... Folks at Arnstadt were planning on chartering a Beech and TIs talked about how to get out the door and folks who have already jumped from one said that a sitting exit is the most sensible one. ...
"

.....................................................................

The best way to take tandem students out of King Airs is to sit them on a bench similar to .. the King Air in the video.
Tell students to cross their arms across their chests, and put their toes on the door sill.
The quicker you can get them out the door the better.
The worst thing you can do is fumble in the door as long as the TI in the video.

Aside: I have done about 2,000 tandems out of King Airs, but will never fly in another King Air in this lifetime.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2012, 9:48 AM
Post #181 of 230 (3003 views)
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Re: [livendive] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, but I have only sewn Y-straps onto 20 Strong tandem harnesses and I am not familiar with UPT Y-straps.
The Strong Y-strap is sewn to the diagonal back straps inside the back pad. Part of it goes straight down the spine, then it splits below the lower, horizontal back-strap to connect with the leg straps.
So there is a direct load path - down the center of the spine - from the shoulder snaps to the leg straps.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2012, 10:20 AM
Post #182 of 230 (2973 views)
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Re: [ufk22] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
...
As a sidelight, it puzzles me that as an I-E, I can issue ratings but have no ability to suspend them. USPA ratings can only be suspended (temporary) by an S&TA (rating by appointment) or board member (position by election) but not by an I-E (earned rating)???
"

......................................................................

As a Strong Tandem Examiner, all I have to do is write an angry letter to the (Strong) factory, and they will lose their (Strong) TI rating.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2012, 10:29 AM
Post #183 of 230 (2959 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
... I don't believe FAA involvement would create a backlash on the rest of us. It's pretty well demonstrated that Lodi is a bad apple. The feds - like them or not - seem pretty good about separating unsafe operations from everyone else.
...
"

........................................................................

The Workman's Compensation Board of British Columbia, Canada is suing Bill Dause.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2012, 10:49 AM
Post #184 of 230 (2940 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
... I didn't realize the PVC pipe was an option on Sigma drogues? ...
'

........................................................................

PVC pipe was standard on Vector drogues.


livendive  (D 21415)

May 27, 2012, 12:27 PM
Post #185 of 230 (2884 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sorry, but I have only sewn Y-straps onto 20 Strong tandem harnesses and I am not familiar with UPT Y-straps.
The Strong Y-strap is sewn to the diagonal back straps inside the back pad. Part of it goes straight down the spine, then it splits below the lower, horizontal back-strap to connect with the leg straps.
So there is a direct load path - down the center of the spine - from the shoulder snaps to the leg straps.

The UPT mod is pretty much the same. I was incorrect on that count in my previous post.

Blues,
Dave


AlRedler  (D 6021)

May 27, 2012, 11:36 PM
Post #186 of 230 (2702 views)
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Re: [livendive] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

The video is on the ipad version of the Times newspaper in the UK this morning. It is linked to an article about Felix's altitude record attempt rather inappropriately.


ufk22  (D 16168)

May 28, 2012, 4:17 AM
Post #187 of 230 (2617 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"
In reply to:
...
As a sidelight, it puzzles me that as an I-E, I can issue ratings but have no ability to suspend them. USPA ratings can only be suspended (temporary) by an S&TA (rating by appointment) or board member (position by election) but not by an I-E (earned rating)???
"

......................................................................

As a Strong Tandem Examiner, all I have to do is write an angry letter to the (Strong) factory, and they will lose their (Strong) TI rating.
From the USPA side of things, shouldn't the person who has the authority to issue the rating also have the ability to suspend it (pending board review) ?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
May 28, 2012, 7:05 AM
Post #188 of 230 (2547 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

FAA investigates:

http://www.avweb.com/...7-1.html?CMP=OTC-RSS


FAA Investigates Tandem Skydiving Scare
Email this article |Print this article

By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief

The FAA has paid a visit to a California skydiving company after video of some unplanned excitement vaulted it to Internet stardom earlier this week. It's been more than a year since an 80-year-old grandmother identified only as Laverne took a bucket-list tandem jump with the Parachute Center in Acampo, Calif., that may have got her a little closer to her maker than she bargained for. Laverne is seen having second thoughts in the aircraft door before she is encouraged to join the fun by her tandem partner and the cameraman. Laverne somehow slips out of her harness and makes most of the journey earthward in an undignified position in the grip of her partner. At one point during the freefall the cameraman moves in to help keep hold of Laverne. They landed none the worse for wear and that was the end of the story until the video hit theChive.

The video caught the attention of the networks and the Parachute Center has fielded numerous requests for comment with a variation of the statement made to the New York Daily News, which quoted an unnamed employee. "No one got hurt," the employee said. "The equipment worked properly." The FAA decided to check that out and spent part of Saturday interviewing staff and going over records.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 28, 2012, 8:04 AM
Post #189 of 230 (2494 views)
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Re: [livendive] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Sorry, but I have only sewn Y-straps onto 20 Strong tandem harnesses and I am not familiar with UPT Y-straps.
The Strong Y-strap is sewn to the diagonal back straps inside the back pad. Part of it goes straight down the spine, then it splits below the lower, horizontal back-strap to connect with the leg straps.
So there is a direct load path - down the center of the spine - from the shoulder snaps to the leg straps.

The UPT mod is pretty much the same. I was incorrect on that count in my previous post.

Blues,
Dave

.....................................................................

After many of the student harnesses had been retro-fitted with Y-straps, Strong Ent. admitted that they may have panniced.
After too many students complained that Y-straps prevented them from lifting their legs for landing, Strong said "just leave the Y-straps slack."
Hint: most of the complaining students looked like they had not done a sit-up in this century!
Hah!
Hah!

UPT took a different tack, waiting longer before introducing their version of a Y-strap, and made their Y-strap slightly better. UPT added some bungee cord from dangling if the TI forgot to tighten it. UPT claims that their bungee cord removes some of the jolt when a student "bottoms out" (yes, I know it is a bad pun) on the Y-strap.

In the end, both tandem manufactures admit that Y-straps are redundant. Y-straps will only matter if a TI forgets to tighten all the other straps ... and are cheap insurance compared with the foolishness that started this thread.


Wags  (D 18288)

May 28, 2012, 1:02 PM
Post #190 of 230 (2321 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Nobody could say for sure, but I wonder what would have happened if he would have done side spin recovery techniques? I never even saw him put his hands out to attempt an arch on exit.
Maybe this was discussed earlier, sorry, I didnít read the entire thread.

Iíve had two tandems that started into side spins, and I went fetal (on our backs) to get control of the student, then pulled them into the arch, and we flipped nicely in to a stable face to earth position, and I deployed the drogue into clean air.

Going on your back intentionally in a tandem is something that seems very unnatural, and counterproductive, but in a side spin, the worst thing to do is keep a hard arch as the student further separates from you. The hard arch from the instructor at this time will further add to the propeller effect, and the speed of the spin. This is what killed the people before side spins were studied and solutions were found. This TI dumped his drogue, and was lucky it didnít snag on anything, that would have made a bad situation, even worse.

I am not in any way saying I could have handled this better, but just want to know what others think.
The key to good side spin recovery is to act fast, not sure if he could have gone fetal quick enough, but it does help to get control of your student. If you are able to capture their legs, you are golden!

Here is a link to a video of one of my side spins. I am sure some will think I did the wrong thing, I am not posting here so I can be flogged, but for the added discussion on the topic. I am sure many out there have seen the side spin training videos, and I was following what they suggest to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET9jfZtcQsU

Wags


pookieland  (Student)

May 28, 2012, 1:27 PM
Post #191 of 230 (2299 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

INSANE MAN!!!


wetrock

May 28, 2012, 1:53 PM
Post #192 of 230 (2278 views)
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Re: [Wags] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wags

This would not have worked for granny as she was out of her harness before she left the plane.


skydiverek  (C 952)

May 28, 2012, 2:28 PM
Post #193 of 230 (2257 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Made the front-page headlines in the main Polish newspaper (its online edition)...:

http://deser.pl/..._Prawie_wypadla.html


Wags  (D 18288)

May 28, 2012, 4:08 PM
Post #194 of 230 (2196 views)
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Re: [wetrock] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wags

This would not have worked for granny as she was out of her harness before she left the plane.

Agreed, she was sliding out, but just out of the plane they were not separated enough where he couldnít have captured her.

I think he could have gone on to his back, (her now in his burble) and pulled her up, capture her legs, and arch. It would have been some work, but I think it could have been done. Again, going on your back in a tandem seems like a bad position to be in, but it gives you an adavantage.

Obviously the best thing would have been to have the harness tight to start with. I have had several students tell me that I have the rig uncomfortably tight just before the jump, but they later say that it didnít feel tight in free-fall.

Wags


robinheid  (D 5533)

May 28, 2012, 5:03 PM
Post #195 of 230 (2162 views)
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Re: [DSE] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
when people are already cancelling tandems because of the video, then it was unnecessarily further damaging the sport. ... not to mention Lodi's owner saying "the TI did a good job" in a news interview.

Is there any documented case of someone canceling a tandem because of this video? Unimpressed

Two separate groups showed up today specifically _because_ of the video; they wanted to see what it really looked like. Both ended up booking, one jumped. The other would have jumped had it not been for weather.

It's demonstrable; skydiving interest increases after any incident reported in the news.

It may not be the kind of 'marketing' that is good for the sport, but it does spark awareness that often turns to more business.

+1

Kinda funny how the whuffos get it but not the skgods.

44
Cool


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 28, 2012, 6:28 PM
Post #196 of 230 (2112 views)
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Re: [Wags] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice job of recognizing and controlling.

Sparky


NotASalmon  (D 21412)

May 30, 2012, 1:55 PM
Post #197 of 230 (1662 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Am I the only one who sees tandem exit flips as reckless? What ever happened to a stable exit and quick drogue deployment? Of the 5 or 600 tandems I did back in the day, I never exited in a fetal position. If memory serves, such exits are highly frowned upon by the manufacturers. Sure would like to see a replay of this jump with a stable exit, drogue side up...you know...the way we were all trained...2 cents...


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 30, 2012, 3:08 PM
Post #198 of 230 (1602 views)
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Re: [NotASalmon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

>Of the 5 or 600 tandems I did back in the day, I never exited in a fetal position.

We used to exit that way out of the King Air, mainly for snag prevention. (That was a very small door for a big tandem to fit out.) It was usually possible to get stable head-to-earth pretty quickly though, akin to a late diving exit on a bigway.


NotASalmon  (D 21412)

May 30, 2012, 4:41 PM
Post #199 of 230 (1558 views)
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Re: [billvon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure, same as a 206 cargo door exit. Student would sit on my lap, all legs outside the door, roll out into hard arch, drogue out quick. It's the fetal roll I don't get. If Houdini were to escape from a tandem harness, five'll get you ten he'd do it in a fetal position. Never had a problem launching out of King Air's. Student squats or sits, my left foot in the door jam, roll out slow and once clear, launch with the left foot, big arch, drogue out.


bigdad510  (D 29900)

May 31, 2012, 10:08 PM
Post #200 of 230 (1298 views)
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Re: [Wags] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

WAGS,
Just posted on your youtube. I'll tell you, for as many times as I watch the side-spin videos, having a more "recent" video is even more reassuring that the technique works for getting out of them. Thanks for the post!


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