Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Tandem jump goes to sh*t...

 

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ShcShc11  (A 15638)

May 24, 2012, 5:21 PM
Post #76 of 230 (3860 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quite honestly the scariest thing I ever saw Crazy


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

May 24, 2012, 5:44 PM
Post #77 of 230 (3816 views)
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Re: [ShcShc11] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Video was taken down, but other poster put it here:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tmh024


ShcShc11  (A 15638)

May 24, 2012, 5:49 PM
Post #78 of 230 (3803 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Video was taken down, but other poster put it here:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tmh024

Thank goodness the youtube video is taken down. Would scare potential students imo.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

May 24, 2012, 6:59 PM
Post #79 of 230 (3706 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So I guess it was ok for Dause to have an unrated TI on the payroll take a tandem passenger up in an aircraft that didn't receive mandatory inspections without belting her in for takeoff?

Yeah, ol' Billy sure runs a tight ship alright.

New gear or not, IMO Lodi is an ongoing nightmare waiting to happen. The unrated TI almost proved it.

Where do you get that the TI was unrated? From the comments above he had his rating pulled after this event. There are other comments that he was not a USPA rated TI, but since The Parachute Centre is not a USPA DZ that is irrelevant. There is plenty to criticize here, but try not to make stuff up. Why not point to all the tandem fatalities that have occurred there over the last 30 years. It is a very high volume DZ so the odds must have caught up to them several times by now. Haven't they?


bclark  (D 22626)

May 24, 2012, 8:23 PM
Post #80 of 230 (3581 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't use this link unless you want your browser hijacked. Mad


dqpacker  (D 32043)

May 24, 2012, 8:25 PM
Post #81 of 230 (3590 views)
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Re: [ShcShc11] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Video was taken down, but other poster put it here:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tmh024

Thank goodness the youtube video is taken down. Would scare potential students imo.

quit typing and just read. that video needs to be shown to everyone.
reloaded to utube.
http://www.youtube.com/...40&feature=share


(This post was edited by dqpacker on May 24, 2012, 8:27 PM)


jbnote  (C 36083)

May 24, 2012, 9:09 PM
Post #82 of 230 (3546 views)
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Re: [lawrocket] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I am truly amazed that people pull off stunts like these in suehappy america....

Note to all in Cali - waivers won't cover "gross negligence," which is "an extreme departure from the ordinary standard of conduct." While I'm no tandem master, I think that a woman falling ass first out of a harness ON EXIT shows a pretty extreme departure. If something worse had happened, that video...
-------------------------------------------------------------
I beg to differ, every waiver I have ever signed at my home DZ or while traveling has the "gross negligence" clause in it. Search google for "tandem waiver" just to see a few generic ones and you'll find the clause in there.

I've even signed a waiver that stated I would not sue the DZ/DZO etc. in the event of "Extreme Gross Negligence" which I found somewhat amusing.

I am IN NO WAY defending ANY of what is on the video. Nor am I saying that the waiver would necessarily hold up in court. Any law student could punch holes in nearly all our waivers if they were paid well enough to do so. The U.S. is far too eager to sue, that's undeniable. Sometimes, it's justified, other times it isn't.

Had this tandem ended up turning into a fatality (which we all agree came within a hair's breadth of doing so) then it would have been a clear case of "Gross Negligence" - at least from my non-legalese point of view.

BTW - Laverne looks a bit like a dude.


livendive  (D 21415)

May 24, 2012, 10:57 PM
Post #83 of 230 (3463 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Is Mullins similarly maligned?

By some yes, but Mike is also a member of USPA. Bill is not. Huge difference. Your personal opinion of the GM program has no bearing on this situation.

Sparky

Ah, I didn't realize Dause was no longer an individual member either. That said, I don't see how your personal opinion of Craig's allegiance to Bill has any bearing on this tandem jump. Craig may or may not be a lackey, and I don't really care either way. While I'll agree that if Bill is not a member, he should have no say in USPA activities, if Craig agrees with him, he's no worse than any of the other DZO's who are running this trade organization.

Blues,
Dave


livendive  (D 21415)

May 24, 2012, 11:00 PM
Post #84 of 230 (3459 views)
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Re: [ShcShc11] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Video was taken down, but other poster put it here:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tmh024

Thank goodness the youtube video is taken down. Would scare potential students imo.

What's wrong with letting them make informed decisions? A very small fraction of instructors really are that bad, and I can't think of a good reason to hide that from prospective students. The trick is putting it in perspective. That can be difficult on youtube, where the 1% of bad videos get 1000 times more views than the 99% of non-descript Tom Petty tandem videos.

Blues,
Dave


agentsmith413  (B 36115)

May 25, 2012, 1:11 AM
Post #85 of 230 (3385 views)
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Re: [livendive] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been pretty desensitized thanks to the Internet over the years but this video fills me with all types of emotion. How someone can be so careless about an obviously scared tandem student to the point of almost killing them sickens me. This is the first video in a long time that has actually scared me and has been permanently been embedded in my head.

I certainly have mixed emotions about whether or not it's a good thing this is on the Internet. It could be good for new and experienced tandem instructors alike but could definitely scare new students away.

I don't feel bad for the TI at all and think he deserves to never skydive again no matter what kind of jump it is. He had a complete disregard for safety and compromised the integrity of this sport which we all love. I hope all TI's can learn from this idiot's major fuck up and something like this never happens again.


airtwardo  (D License)

May 25, 2012, 1:38 AM
Post #86 of 230 (3373 views)
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Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Just when ya think you've idiot proofed something...along comes a better idiot! Crazy
Attachments: 1.jpg (67.7 KB)
  2.jpg (70.3 KB)
  3.jpg (65.0 KB)


nigel99  (D 1)

May 25, 2012, 2:18 AM
Post #87 of 230 (3353 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Shit, seeing pic 1 It ias a miracle that she stayed in. Think she has joined Bill Cole and Travis as a chuteless jumper!


Hellis

May 25, 2012, 3:58 AM
Post #88 of 230 (3296 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

80 years old.
1 jump.

And gets about as much attention as Garry when he lands a wingsuit.
Tongue

I agree, looking at pic 1 is really disturbing.

But what strap is it that is dangeling at the shot when she is walking towards the plane?


stratostar  (Student)

May 25, 2012, 4:53 AM
Post #89 of 230 (3234 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ya know, I've seen a lot of in air rigging being done before, but I'll be damn if I've ever seen anyone try in an air harnessing of a student act........CrazyPirateMad


Now we can see why that never really took off as the "in thing" in student progressions.


livendive  (D 21415)

May 25, 2012, 5:42 AM
Post #90 of 230 (3175 views)
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Re: [Hellis] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But what strap is it that is dangeling at the shot when she is walking towards the plane?

Tough to be sure, but I think it's her backstrap. If so, it looks like it's below her butt, which would facilitate this sort of problem (exiting between the backstrap and the backpad).

Blues,
Dave


stratostar  (Student)

May 25, 2012, 6:01 AM
Post #91 of 230 (3144 views)
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Re: [livendive] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...ing-tandem-dive.html

Media has it now.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...ing-tandem-dive.html


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

May 25, 2012, 6:35 AM
Post #92 of 230 (3097 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post


Great.... UnsureThe BPA sure seems quick to say "this does not happen in the UK". This is just sad. Horrible for the sport!


agentsmith413  (B 36115)

May 25, 2012, 6:39 AM
Post #93 of 230 (3086 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

just seeing the pictures really pisses me off. I can't even watch this again because it infuriates me that someone could be so thoughtless and careless.


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
Moderator
May 25, 2012, 6:42 AM
Post #94 of 230 (3081 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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Great.... UnsureThe BPA sure seems quick to say "this does not happen in the UK". This is just sad. Horrible for the sport!

What do you mean by quick? The BPA didn't solicit this interview. Neither is it the first quote (not that the 'reporter' couldn't have reordered the quotes. Plus he didn't say "this does not happen" he said there had never been a similar incident (which is true, and before anyone says it, yes, of course we do less tandems than the US, ~ 30,000 p.a.) What should he say, that he didn't?


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

May 25, 2012, 6:54 AM
Post #95 of 230 (3060 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Great.... UnsureThe BPA sure seems quick to say "this does not happen in the UK". This is just sad. Horrible for the sport!

What do you mean by quick? The BPA didn't solicit this interview. Neither is it the first quote (not that the 'reporter' couldn't have reordered the quotes. Plus he didn't say "this does not happen" he said there had never been a similar incident (which is true, and before anyone says it, yes, of course we do less tandems than the US, ~ 30,000 p.a.) What should he say, that he didn't?

Sorry.... translation loss in typing... what I meant by that was they quickly said this has not happened in the UK and pointed out it has happened here before (similar anyway) not faulting him for those quotes.... I would have said the same thing. I meant that he was quick and rightfully so to try and protect skydiving in his country. My bad!


airsport  (D 12544)

May 25, 2012, 7:06 AM
Post #96 of 230 (3034 views)
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Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm numb... Most amazing monumental screw up.... So unbelievable she wasn't tossed out of the harness during the spin or opening.


feuergnom  (D License)

May 25, 2012, 7:09 AM
Post #97 of 230 (3026 views)
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crosspost from incidents-thread [In reply to] Can't Post

for all those not following the other thread:

i have been told that this vid was shown a skydive expo at the instructors meeting. attendants were told not to film it off the screen cause nobody wanted it to end up on youtube...
and yes, tjhis video is a year old...

my bottom line:
the whole things starts with sloppy initial training of tandem "instructors" - the whole instrucor thing uspa implemented is pretty worthless if something like this is actually happening. better to have a handpicked tandem-master that a jerk like that with an "I"-rating

next: even with the best initial training no I/E will change DZ-culture. If its cool and normal for longtime Joe Cool-"TI"s to board the plane with dangling harnesses and ride all the way up just to fasten everything up a minute before exit - well there your good intentions go out the door... and I know what I have been seeing the last ten years all over the place. And I am more than lucky to have the opposite attitude hammered into my head...

someone mentioned the y-mod: as much as I disliked having to use it I see why it was put into place: to protect unknowing students/passengers from the average droguechucking imbecile

do I have a suggestion how this could be solved? I know you won't like it: it's unannounced controls by the manufacturers of tandem gear if their rules are followed ( can anybody spell ramp-check?) - you are boarding the plane with a pax noit jumpready: There goes your rating... end of discussion, cause that is where the cash comes into the dz.


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
Moderator
May 25, 2012, 7:14 AM
Post #98 of 230 (3011 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Great.... UnsureThe BPA sure seems quick to say "this does not happen in the UK". This is just sad. Horrible for the sport!

What do you mean by quick? The BPA didn't solicit this interview. Neither is it the first quote (not that the 'reporter' couldn't have reordered the quotes. Plus he didn't say "this does not happen" he said there had never been a similar incident (which is true, and before anyone says it, yes, of course we do less tandems than the US, ~ 30,000 p.a.) What should he say, that he didn't?

Sorry.... translation loss in typing... what I meant by that was they quickly said this has not happened in the UK and pointed out it has happened here before (similar anyway) not faulting him for those quotes.... I would have said the same thing. I meant that he was quick and rightfully so to try and protect skydiving in his country. My bad!

Cool. My over defensive mind read it another way.

This is why the video didn't need to be public. Putting unnecessary fear into the public. Despite explanation from an expert in the article, the comments clearly demonstrate that large portions of the public don't understand what's being told to them. Plus people will be making money off this video from advertising and traffic to their site.

I'm looking forward to doing tandems this weekend Unsure


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

May 25, 2012, 7:36 AM
Post #99 of 230 (2970 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Great.... UnsureThe BPA sure seems quick to say "this does not happen in the UK". This is just sad. Horrible for the sport!

What do you mean by quick? The BPA didn't solicit this interview. Neither is it the first quote (not that the 'reporter' couldn't have reordered the quotes. Plus he didn't say "this does not happen" he said there had never been a similar incident (which is true, and before anyone says it, yes, of course we do less tandems than the US, ~ 30,000 p.a.) What should he say, that he didn't?

Sorry.... translation loss in typing... what I meant by that was they quickly said this has not happened in the UK and pointed out it has happened here before (similar anyway) not faulting him for those quotes.... I would have said the same thing. I meant that he was quick and rightfully so to try and protect skydiving in his country. My bad!

Cool. My over defensive mind read it another way.

This is why the video didn't need to be public. Putting unnecessary fear into the public. Despite explanation from an expert in the article, the comments clearly demonstrate that large portions of the public don't understand what's being told to them. Plus people will be making money off this video from advertising and traffic to their site.

I'm looking forward to doing tandems this weekend Unsure

Nah.... I just worded it poorly Crazy


matthewcline  (D 21585)

May 25, 2012, 7:37 AM
Post #100 of 230 (2970 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] crosspost from incidents-thread [In reply to] Can't Post

It is not proven yet if the T-I was a USPA Rated T-I, it is still being hashed out, the few who say they "Know" say he was NOT a USPA T-I and not actually rated by the Manufacturer either. My point- I do not think USPA bears any blame in this incident.

As a former I/E made sure all my Candidates understood- Get on the plane ready to exit! Never rig in flight and never trap your student to you by doubling up on the seat belt.

Matt


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