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Tandem jump goes to sh*t...

 

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normiss  (D 28356)

May 24, 2012, 12:16 PM
Post #51 of 230 (4119 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought she simply couldn't move her legs out with his body weight on top of her.
But the harness WAS more than clearly improperly fitted.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

May 24, 2012, 12:20 PM
Post #52 of 230 (4110 views)
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Re: [normiss] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I thought she simply couldn't move her legs out with his body weight on top of her.
But the harness WAS more than clearly improperly fitted.

That's what I thought as well and thought maybe she was trying to tell him that but you are 100% correct about the harness... I still cannot believe what I watched.


bdazel  (D License)

May 24, 2012, 12:25 PM
Post #53 of 230 (4100 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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Quote:
Yeah, I'm glad it's out there too.

I'm torn on this. On one hand, it may help to educate some new instructors. It may cause reckless instructors to rethink their behavior. It may also motivate some to expose reckless instructors or DZs and cause them to go away or change their behavior.

On the other hand, I can see this blowing up all over the web and causing otherwise interested students to stay away from the sport due to a fear that this type of recklessness is prevalent within the sport or that tandem harnesses are simply unsafe and waiting to dump students. After watching that video, I can't say that I'd blame them. There is no accompanying information with the video to mitigate inaccurate assumptions.

It's one thing for a prospective student to go on Youtube and watch a sport jumper do something stupid and get hurt. It's a whole different thing to watch a tandem student narrowly escape death by managing to cling to the harness in that way. That is the type of nightmare that many students must overcome just to make the jump in the first place.


tonyhays  (D 26336)

May 24, 2012, 12:33 PM
Post #54 of 230 (4066 views)
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Re: Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

As I've read through these posts, I am sorry to see a few posters expressing support for the camera guy trying to intervene. Seriously, WTF could he possibly do to help the situation????

IMO, all he is doing was transforming a potentially single fatality situation into a potentially triple fatality situation.


Southern_Man  (C License)

May 24, 2012, 12:38 PM
Post #55 of 230 (4048 views)
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Re: [tonyhays] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

That's one of the scariest fucking things I've ever seen.


Andy9o8  (D License)

May 24, 2012, 12:43 PM
Post #56 of 230 (4023 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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Quote:
This whole jump is just FUBAR but she may have not been saying no. I kind of thought it looked like she was having an issue with her legs
My dad made a jump at 85, and the TM peeled his hands off. But Dad told me later that he just didn't have his harness held exactly as the TM had said he wanted it (when you're old, you're not always all that flexible), he wasn't saying no.

But it only took 2 tries to peel him off -- this was way past that, never mind all the other appalling stuff in the video. Yeah, I'm glad it's out there too. Wendy P.

I am, too.
Pardon me if I sound "traitorous" or piss some of you off, but a few of the comments in here could be construed to endorse a cover-up mentality. Bad idea on a couple levels, IMO.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on May 24, 2012, 12:53 PM)


Decodiver  (D License)

May 24, 2012, 1:12 PM
Post #57 of 230 (3942 views)
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Re: [Southern_Man] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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That's one of the scariest fucking things I've ever seen.

If that was my mother I would kick the living shit out of the TM, what a fucking twat!


braden.smith  (D License)

May 24, 2012, 1:25 PM
Post #58 of 230 (3914 views)
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SkydiverDZO  (D 29918)

May 24, 2012, 1:27 PM
Post #59 of 230 (3897 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

All I can say is wow. What part of the harness fitting did this guy miss out on in training? The student should be fitted with the harness adjusted properly so that she is ready to jump before boarding the plane. WTF?


disastercake

May 24, 2012, 1:30 PM
Post #60 of 230 (3880 views)
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Re: [braden.smith] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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I have spent a decent amount in Lodi and I still havn't seen Tandem Equipment that was nicer. All the rigs are practically new (Less than a season or two,) not to mention their main rigger is one of the best in the business IMO. I wouldn't blame this on Lodi or Bill. This is the TI's fault. This is not anyone else's fault. I don't give a fuck about his tandem rating he should never jump again even if it's by himself. He's bound to hurt anyone he's in the air with. That poor women jesus. She didn't sign up for that shit.

When a TI is working at a DZ, whether it's regularly or as a fill-in, it's the DZO's responsibility to know who is working for him, therefore the actions and negligence of any TI at a DZ IS the "fault" of the DZO who is allowing them to work there. It's the same in any other job/business. It's the DZO's responsibility to ensure the safety of the students and instructors, and uphold the integrity of his business as well as the sport as a whole.


feuergnom  (D License)

May 24, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #61 of 230 (3850 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
Quote:
This whole jump is just FUBAR but she may have not been saying no. I kind of thought it looked like she was having an issue with her legs
My dad made a jump at 85, and the TM peeled his hands off. But Dad told me later that he just didn't have his harness held exactly as the TM had said he wanted it (when you're old, you're not always all that flexible), he wasn't saying no.

But it only took 2 tries to peel him off -- this was way past that, never mind all the other appalling stuff in the video. Yeah, I'm glad it's out there too. Wendy P.

I am, too.
Pardon me if I sound "traitorous" or piss some of you off, but a few of the comments in here could be construed to endorse a cover-up mentality. Bad idea on a couple levels, IMO.

could you elaborate on this?????


chuckakers  (D 10855)

May 24, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #62 of 230 (3851 views)
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Re: [braden.smith] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have spent a decent amount in Lodi and I still havn't seen Tandem Equipment that was nicer. All the rigs are practically new (Less than a season or two,) not to mention their main rigger is one of the best in the business IMO. I wouldn't blame this on Lodi or Bill. This is the TI's fault. This is not anyone else's fault. I don't give a fuck about his tandem rating he should never jump again even if it's by himself. He's bound to hurt anyone he's in the air with. That poor women jesus. She didn't sign up for that shit.

So I guess it was ok for Dause to have an unrated TI on the payroll take a tandem passenger up in an aircraft that didn't receive mandatory inspections without belting her in for takeoff?

Yeah, ol' Billy sure runs a tight ship alright.

New gear or not, IMO Lodi is an ongoing nightmare waiting to happen. The unrated TI almost proved it.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

May 24, 2012, 1:44 PM
Post #63 of 230 (3842 views)
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Re: [braden.smith] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

If Bill walked up to the TM and punched and fired him the instant he saw this video (which a good employee would have immediately shown him), then maybe he gets some benefit of the doubt.

Wendy P.


marks2065  (D 18925)

May 24, 2012, 1:47 PM
Post #64 of 230 (3829 views)
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Re: [disastercake] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
I have spent a decent amount in Lodi and I still havn't seen Tandem Equipment that was nicer. All the rigs are practically new (Less than a season or two,) not to mention their main rigger is one of the best in the business IMO. I wouldn't blame this on Lodi or Bill. This is the TI's fault. This is not anyone else's fault. I don't give a fuck about his tandem rating he should never jump again even if it's by himself. He's bound to hurt anyone he's in the air with. That poor women jesus. She didn't sign up for that shit.

When a TI is working at a DZ, whether it's regularly or as a fill-in, it's the DZO's responsibility to know who is working for him, therefore the actions and negligence of any TI at a DZ IS the "fault" of the DZO who is allowing them to work there. It's the same in any other job/business. It's the DZO's responsibility to ensure the safety of the students and instructors, and uphold the integrity of his business as well as the sport as a whole.

I had 601 tandems and 2 said no, we stayed in the plane and landed with the plane. I was no big deal to me because everyone got what they wanted. I was also acused of having the harness to tight on my students, but I never had anything like the crap that has come out over the last 6-7 years happen to my students. This video is just another example of an instructor / DZ that forgot what a student jump is about. A fun, safe, and exilerating experience for the student, this is not any of those.This is about the student not the instructor's fun and money. Any instructors that can't forget about thier wants and desires should turn in their ratings.


-ftp-

May 24, 2012, 1:49 PM
Post #65 of 230 (3823 views)
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Re: [braden.smith] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have spent a decent amount in Lodi and I still havn't seen Tandem Equipment that was nicer. All the rigs are practically new (Less than a season or two,)

Good equipment is only worth a shit when its used properly. I mean seriously, what the hell does the quality of the equipment have to do with this?

If I was a DZO, number 1 an un-rated TI wouldn't be working for me.

Besides that, you think this is the first harness mistake this moron has made? If the DZO hasnt noticed, or he chose to ignore it, either way he has no place running a DZ. period end of conversation.


livendive  (D 21415)

May 24, 2012, 2:25 PM
Post #66 of 230 (3715 views)
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Re: [bdazel] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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On one hand, it may help to educate some new instructors. It may cause reckless instructors to rethink their behavior. It may also motivate some to expose reckless instructors or DZs and cause them to go away or change their behavior.

This. It seems to me that, at least on UPT gear, there have developed a couple models for how students are harnessed, the UPT way, and the way that looks a lot more like this...where it's easier to slide leg straps down after opening, the chest strap is virtually non-existent, and the whole thing (especially above the hips) is loose walking to the plane. I've tried to discourage the second type because it just doesn't look safe, regardless of how many "cool" TI's use that approach. Personally, I get in the plane ready to exit. The only adjustment I do once in the plane is further tightening the uppers after hooking up.

Blues,
Dave


BillyVance  (D 18895)

May 24, 2012, 2:27 PM
Post #67 of 230 (3709 views)
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Re: [lawrocket] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
I am truly amazed that people pull off stunts like these in suehappy america....

Note to all in Cali - waivers won't cover "gross negligence," which is "an extre.

Wasn't there a double fatality at Lodi some years ago where it was discovered that the TI was "drug-impaired" and did enough things wrong that resulted in a double malfunction, dooming the pair? The family of the deceased student sued, and I think, won the case.


uberchris  (A License)

May 24, 2012, 3:32 PM
Post #68 of 230 (3581 views)
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Re: [normiss] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

first thing i noticed was that her left shoulder strap was hanging halfway off her shoulder. im no TI, so i dont know if this is common practice when gearing up for exit......

2:05 she cleary says the word NO (but im no lip reader)

2:24 she starts screaming for her life.....

this was painful to watch


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

May 24, 2012, 3:47 PM
Post #69 of 230 (3545 views)
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Re: [tonyhays] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As I've read through these posts, I am sorry to see a few posters expressing support for the camera guy trying to intervene. Seriously, WTF could he possibly do to help the situation????

IMO, all he is doing was transforming a potentially single fatality situation into a potentially triple fatality situation.

Tony,

I do not disagree with you and in this situation the video flyer could not do anything but I was commenting on him flying in after there was "stability" to see if he could help. I guess with a FUBAR situation like this you never know. He may have been able to do something although not likely so I do get your point but in a situation like that I cannot fault him for coming in for a few seconds to see if he could. I think he realized there was nothing he could do and he backed off. Maybe I am completely wrong and if I am I have no problem being told that and learning from it.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 24, 2012, 3:58 PM
Post #70 of 230 (3528 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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At what point will someone run Dause and his ilk out of town? And this is the home DZ for the USPA Regional Director for that area. Even though The Parachute Center isn't a USPA DZ, it seems to me that a Director jumping there is a pretty ringing endorsement of the place.

That's as "unfuckingbelievable" as anything else in all of this.

The problem is USPA does not have the horse power to do anything about this type of situation. If the FAA gets involved the back lash could affect everyone.

As for RD that jumps at Bills place he is a lackey that gives Bill a vote on the BOD without even being a member.

Sparky


livendive  (D 21415)

May 24, 2012, 4:07 PM
Post #71 of 230 (3506 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I am truly amazed that people pull off stunts like these in suehappy america....

Note to all in Cali - waivers won't cover "gross negligence," which is "an extre.

Wasn't there a double fatality at Lodi some years ago where it was discovered that the TI was "drug-impaired" and did enough things wrong that resulted in a double malfunction, dooming the pair? The family of the deceased student sued, and I think, won the case.

I suspect you're thinking of an incident at Skydance. There was a double mal tandem fatality there in which the instructor popped on post mortem. It was later determined to likely be just residuals, and not indicative of impairment at the time of the incident.

Blues,
Dave


livendive  (D 21415)

May 24, 2012, 4:13 PM
Post #72 of 230 (3490 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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As for RD that jumps at Bills place he is a lackey that gives Bill a vote on the BOD without even being a member.

What's with the fuss about an RD jumping at a dropzone that isn't a group member? Is Mullins similarly maligned? Personally, I either consider that a positive attribute or a non-factor, but certainly not negative. Of course, given the option, I'd choose a non GM dz over one that supports that stupid program too.

Blues,
Dave


Andy9o8  (D License)

May 24, 2012, 4:20 PM
Post #73 of 230 (3474 views)
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Re: [livendive] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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Is Mullins similarly maligned?

Does he deserve to be (in particular: by comparison)? Let that be your guide.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on May 24, 2012, 4:24 PM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 24, 2012, 4:48 PM
Post #74 of 230 (3433 views)
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Re: [livendive] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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Is Mullins similarly maligned?

By some yes, but Mike is also a member of USPA. Bill is not. Huge difference. Your personal opinion of the GM program has no bearing on this situation.

Sparky


chuckakers  (D 10855)

May 24, 2012, 5:08 PM
Post #75 of 230 (3407 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
At what point will someone run Dause and his ilk out of town? And this is the home DZ for the USPA Regional Director for that area. Even though The Parachute Center isn't a USPA DZ, it seems to me that a Director jumping there is a pretty ringing endorsement of the place.

That's as "unfuckingbelievable" as anything else in all of this.

The problem is USPA does not have the horse power to do anything about this type of situation. If the FAA gets involved the back lash could affect everyone.

As for RD that jumps at Bills place he is a lackey that gives Bill a vote on the BOD without even being a member.

Sparky

I don't believe FAA involvement would create a backlash on the rest of us. It's pretty well demonstrated that Lodi is a bad apple. The feds - like them or not - seem pretty good about separating unsafe operations from everyone else.

For as long as I can remember people have feared that enforcement where it's warranted would lead to harassment where it's not, but that has yet to happen. How many times have we heard "if we don't clean up our act the feds will?"

Every FAA official I have worked with - and there have been many - asked that we follow the rules as written, nothing more, nothing less.


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