Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
what do if pilot becomes unconscious?

 

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piisfish

May 15, 2012, 1:00 AM
Post #51 of 84 (1686 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I pull my cellphone out, video it, upload the vid on youtube, post it on my Facebook profile to make it viral... and then file a complain to the FAA in order to make medical checks more difficult.


Skyper

May 15, 2012, 2:40 AM
Post #52 of 84 (1681 views)
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Re: [piisfish] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I pull my cellphone out, video it, upload the vid on youtube, post it on my Facebook profile to make it viral... and then file a complain to the FAA in order to make medical checks more difficult.

I don't think that would be possible. Cell phone umts network can in extreme cases reach 1000m (3000ft). In most cases the network signal is non existant above 300m (1000ft).


piisfish

May 15, 2012, 2:55 AM
Post #53 of 84 (1673 views)
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Re: [Skyper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

that's in your country... not in mine Smile Over here we need cell phone coverage in the mountains too, so we can still be on the phone just before exiting. Plus you could always push on the yoke till you have decent 3g coverage Angelic


Skyper

May 15, 2012, 3:39 AM
Post #54 of 84 (1667 views)
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Re: [piisfish] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Plus you could always push on the yoke till you have decent 3g coverage Angelic

Smile

that's why I choose to bail out asap.


theonlyski  (D License)

May 15, 2012, 6:56 PM
Post #55 of 84 (1600 views)
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Re: [Skyper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I pull my cellphone out, video it, upload the vid on youtube, post it on my Facebook profile to make it viral... and then file a complain to the FAA in order to make medical checks more difficult.

I don't think that would be possible. Cell phone umts network can in extreme cases reach 1000m (3000ft). In most cases the network signal is non existant above 300m (1000ft).

I've received/sent texts as high as 8k in jump planes, and I've actually held phone conversations around at least 2500' AGL. (my flight headset has a port to plug my iPhone into so... was talking hands free and all Tongue)


robinheid  (D 5533)

May 18, 2012, 10:52 AM
Post #56 of 84 (1525 views)
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Re: [nebug] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just had to respond to this. This actually happened back in 1973. The C-180 was coming back from an event with jumpers on board without their gear on but in the airplane. The pilot during the flight became too incapacitated (read drunk) to land the airplane. One of the jumpers who had some time in J-3s and Luscombes (taildragger) landed the 180 without a problem even thought he had never flown a C-180 before. No one injured. I don't remember the names of anyone involved though and I'll deny everything.

Nebug brings up a good point. What do you do if the pilot is not unconscious but merely overwhelmed?

In the above case, impairment was the cause, but what if it's other circumstances?

Here's a survival story that's exactly the same except completely different:

Jumpers returning in a Cessna from a boogie. Pilot is VFR-rated.

Suddenly they are in unforecasted soup.

Zero-zero.

In mountains.

Rigs onboard but not on, and where would you go anyway?

Solution?

Pilot kept his eyes on the balls (wings level, tail straight)

Jumper #1 watched the vertical climb indicator.

Jumper #2 watched the heading.

Jumper #3 watched everything just in case somebody else missed something.

Result? They made it through the soup back to CAVU and the PIC handled it from there.

Lesson? Even if you aren't a pilot, you can still be part of the solution if you:
  • stay calm

  • keep thinking

  • get creative



44
Cool


5.samadhi

May 18, 2012, 3:44 PM
Post #57 of 84 (1475 views)
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Re: [robinheid] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

cool post Robin Smile


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

May 19, 2012, 3:51 AM
Post #58 of 84 (1437 views)
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Re: [robinheid] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Inadvertant IMC by committee. Never learned that one...


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 20, 2012, 8:00 AM
Post #59 of 84 (1388 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I pull my cellphone out, video it, upload the vid on youtube, post it on my Facebook profile to make it viral... and then file a complain to the FAA in order to make medical checks more difficult.

I don't think that would be possible. Cell phone umts network can in extreme cases reach 1000m (3000ft). In most cases the network signal is non existant above 300m (1000ft).

I've received/sent texts as high as 8k in jump planes, and I've actually held phone conversations around at least 2500' AGL. (my flight headset has a port to plug my iPhone into so... was talking hands free and all Tongue)

......................................................................

The real problem is that using a cell phone in an airplane ties up too many cell towers.

Nav Canada air traffic control) publishes control tower phone nmbers and encourages pilots to phone them if they experience radio problems in flight.


wayneflorida  (D 30566)

May 22, 2012, 9:31 AM
Post #60 of 84 (1316 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Inadvertant IMC by committee. Never learned that one...

Followed by CFIT by committee.Unsure


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2012, 7:15 AM
Post #61 of 84 (1242 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
... I've received/sent texts as high as 8k in jump planes, and I've actually held phone conversations around at least 2500' AGL. (my flight headset has a port to plug my iPhone into so... was talking hands free and all Tongue)
"

.......................................................................

The last time a jump-pilot did that over Chilliwack, B.C., he descended into clouds and it took three weeks to find the wreckage on a heavily-forested, steep, mountain-side.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

May 27, 2012, 9:14 AM
Post #62 of 84 (1212 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

All you jump pilots out there flying home from boogies, consider getting VFR flight following from ATC. We're there to help. And should you accidentally encounter bad weather, we can immediately assist you instead of having you blindly fly into a hillside. I've helped a number of VFR pilots who encountered IMC conditions. None of them lost their license or anything like that.

All you jumpers out there, start doubting you pilots a little and let them know it's okay to say "no" or to turn around and land safely short of the destination. "Get-home-itis" is one of the most deadly diseases in aviation. And if you have a cowboy pilot that does "fun" things with the airplane, esp. on take off, tell the DZO you're not jumping until they fire his a$$.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 27, 2012, 5:44 PM
Post #63 of 84 (1185 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack. Lets say for sake of the situation that nobody knows how to fly a plane on board (that would change the situation entirely if somebody had their PL).
If I wasn't deaf (which I am), I would make every effort to try to call up an air traffic control tower. Being "talked down" to a successful survivable landing, by a ground pilot, is possible. (In fact, Mythybusters confirmed it too.) .... Alternatively, if there was no response on the main radio, I'd try to see if some student skydiver has his radio and an instructor is on the ground, I might try to ask for somebody to get on the main radio. (If the student jumper already jumped a few times and didn't really need the radio, I'd ask for the radio before he/she bails!) I would ask for a pilot on the ground to give me all the data for the specific plane I was in (flap settings, throttle settings, feather settings, etc) to give me some quick over-the-air pilot instruction. I would then attempt to land it someplace where I had lots of safety overrun/underrun margin and few obstacles. Preferably on a runway, if I could successfully set up an approach to it. Assuming the plane has about three or four loads of fuel plus a safety margin, I'd be able to fly for a couple hours for practice, keeping an eye on whatever fuel gauge there was. If there was no radio response, then if the plane was flying level at high altitude without steering input, and I had a cellphone, I would try to text people at the dropzone to inform them that the pilot was gone/unconscious and that I would attempt to come back to land the airplane. Then put away the phone and focus. (exception to the cell phone rule. And the phone would keep reattempting to transmit the text, until successful. Notifying the dropzone to vacate/clear the dropzone, or suddenly scramble to try to raise me on VHF radio)

Being a skydiver, you have an advantage of knowing not to turn too hard at low altitude (it dives), and that you ideally prefer to flare before landing, as well knowing that adding flaps is like doing braked parachute flight, you are a bit ahead of a non-pilot (which can still be successfully talked down to a landing by a pilot on the ground).

I already know there are markers on some important indicators that you really need to pay attention to. Important one is the airspeed. Don't go below the minimum speed. There's usually a red marker on a number on the air speed indicator, such as 80 knots. Don't go below that airspeed, or you could stall. If I immediately notice stall danger, I'd push the steering down carefully to nose down to speed up (and I'd then also push the throttle too, if it's seems to be at a very low position). Things will interact (i.e. flaps affect stall speed, etc) so I'd be cautious.

Now, if it was all over farmland an the pilot has a bailout rig, damning the airplane to its destruction, is probably more attractive. But I also know it's possible to land an airplane survivably without being a pilot.

Non-pilots have landed small airplanes before in an emergency. Pilot has heart attack, passenger takes over, tower talks them down, plane survives (sometimes with collapsed nose wheel, etc). Examples include Helen Collins (80yo wife of hubby pilot that had heart attack)

For my situation, because I am deaf, it would be different. (If there was a radio, I'd try to keep announcing repeatedly on the radio about the pilot being down and then what I plan to do. I may keep intermittently repeating the word "mayday, mayday" on the radio just to be sure that someone is clear that I'm an airplane in distress, with no traffic control guidance capability, and you'd better clear the damn hell out of my way.) I may try to attempt to fly/learn the plane for almost an hour, and then try to land it back the dropzone airstrip if I knew where it was and there was sufficient runway margin. Or the nearest huge flat opening I could find, such as a freshly plowed farm field or big grass field, or quiet beach, or even calm water, or nearby towerless (aka VFR-only) quiet municipal airport field, etc...


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on May 27, 2012, 6:04 PM)


theonlyski  (D License)

May 28, 2012, 4:34 PM
Post #64 of 84 (1129 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd also like to point out, it would probably be a good idea in this situation to squawk 7700 (for people scratching their heads, this is basically telling ATC that you have an emergency, ask your pilot to show you how to use your transponders, but keep that for emergency use ONLY!)

John - in Marks description above, being deaf... would he be better off squawking 7600 or 7700? I'd tend to think 7700 so the controllers know there's something wrong other than the radio not working... and they can anticipate that it could include radio failure or inability to use it.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 28, 2012, 4:46 PM
Post #65 of 84 (1127 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
John - in Marks description above, being deaf... would he be better off squawking 7600 or 7700?
Can I squawk both? 7700, then 7600, then back to 7700. Signalling a 7600 would be useful because I am deaf. But then again, a non-responding 7700 would be pretty automatically probably mean a mayday anyway and that ATC should clear the hell out of my path when they see a 7700 flying random paths non-responsively on their screens...

It's almost definitely never going to happen, I'm sure, but that little tidbit of sqawk knowledge is interesting.

BTW, on the topic of non-pilot flying airplanes, another non-pilot, Colton-Harris Moore stole and crash-landed several airplanes. I think some of us would be able to fy better that, even with somewhat less Flight Simulator experience than he did, having observed more actual pilots flying their airplanes, and some practical basic piloting knowledge from the parachute.


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on May 28, 2012, 4:54 PM)


theonlyski  (D License)

May 28, 2012, 4:51 PM
Post #66 of 84 (1121 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Aviate
Navigate
Communicate

Wink


IMO: The less things ya got going on the better, I'd rather get the wings level, maintaining altitude, figure out where I am/need to be, THEN dick with the radios. I'd probably attempt to contact the local approach freq, flight watch, anyone in the area that'll hear me... then squawk 7600/7700 if unable to communicate... at that point depending on the situation, I may just stick on 7600... but I do have a little experience in the left seat of small Cessnas/Mooneys...


Edit: I didn't post the meaning of the squawk codes because I want people to go look for themselves, the more you know type of thing. Angelic


(This post was edited by theonlyski on May 28, 2012, 4:55 PM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 28, 2012, 6:31 PM
Post #67 of 84 (1109 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hell just squak 7500, that will get theri attention.

Sparky


theonlyski  (D License)

May 28, 2012, 7:57 PM
Post #68 of 84 (1091 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hell just squawk 7500, that will get their attention.

Sparky

Yup, that passed out pilot will become the least of your problems.


(This post was edited by theonlyski on May 28, 2012, 8:58 PM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

May 28, 2012, 11:22 PM
Post #69 of 84 (1072 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
John - in Marks description above, being deaf... would he be better off squawking 7600 or 7700?
Can I squawk both? 7700, then 7600, then back to 7700. Signalling a 7600 would be useful because I am deaf.
Actually alternating between the two is appropriate and recommended in some situations. I think yours would be one of those. Laugh


NickDG  (D 8904)

May 29, 2012, 12:17 AM
Post #70 of 84 (1069 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sort of happened to me once. I was JM with a load of static line students in a C-182. We lined up for T/O and a few moments after the pilot put the power to A/C he passed out cold. I pulled the throttle back, pushed the student that was up against the panel to the side, and reached down with my hands to work the rudder and brakes. We ran off the RWY but I managed to get it stopped before we hit anything . . .

NickD
:)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

May 29, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #71 of 84 (1036 views)
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Re: [NickDG] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sort of happened to me once. I was JM with a load of static line students in a C-182. We lined up for T/O and a few moments after the pilot put the power to A/C he passed out cold. I pulled the throttle back, pushed the student that was up against the panel to the side, and reached down with my hands to work the rudder and brakes. We ran off the RWY but I managed to get it stopped before we hit anything . . .
Holy $hit. Nice work, Nick. CoolCool


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

May 29, 2012, 1:21 PM
Post #72 of 84 (1008 views)
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Re: [NickDG] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sort of happened to me once. I was JM with a load of static line students in a C-182. We lined up for T/O and a few moments after the pilot put the power to A/C he passed out cold..............
NickD
:)

Wow! Very nicely done. I'm guessing most jumpers wouldn't even know which one of those peddles were the brakes? Wink


normiss  (D 28356)

May 29, 2012, 7:22 PM
Post #73 of 84 (979 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Right next to the clutch!
Tongue


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 30, 2012, 8:28 AM
Post #74 of 84 (943 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate
Good one. Like pull/pull at altitude/pull at altitude while stable.

Obviously, I'd be making sure the plane was level in stable flight with nothing alarming ahead. I don't know the frequencies on the main radio though, so I'd probably call up on the current frequency and stay on it, unless there was a button labelled "EMERG" or other convenient method of accessing a memorized frequency.
Quote:
Hell just squak 7500, that will get theri attention.
If I get a fighter jet escort, I'll know I've accidentally squawked the wrong frequency, radioed the wrong guy, or flew somewhere I shouldn't have.

Fighter jet escort flies alongside. (Pilot waves sternly at me) Me? You're pointing at me? Me? (pilot points ahead) Down? At this big military runway over there? OK. Gulp. At least I'll be crash-landing on something big. Wink


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on May 30, 2012, 8:33 AM)


Amyr  (C License)

Jun 1, 2012, 2:27 PM
Post #75 of 84 (882 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have seen all the AIRPLANE movies and have discussed in great detail to my pilot at my dropzone if he was to eat a bad tuna sandwich that I felt I needed to be properly trained to land the plane.

He still wont let me even steer the damn thing!


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