Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
what do if pilot becomes unconscious?

 


5.samadhi

May 7, 2012, 11:34 AM
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what do if pilot becomes unconscious? Can't Post

What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack. Lets say for sake of the situation that nobody knows how to fly a plane on board (that would change the situation entirely if somebody had their PL).


JohnRich  (D License)

May 7, 2012, 11:58 AM
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In reply to:
What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack. Lets say for sake of the situation that nobody knows how to fly a plane on board (that would change the situation entirely if somebody had their PL).

Is the pilot wearing an emergency bailout rig? If so, drag him out the door with you and pull his ripcord for him. Screw the airplane.

If you can keep the plane flying level, perhaps you can give him some time and see if he will regain consciousness long enough to land.

If he doesn't have a rig and stays unconscious, he's screwed - bail out and save yourself.

If someone wants to try and land the plane without having any pilot training, let 'em. It's their own life they're gambling with, to try and save another.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on May 7, 2012, 12:03 PM)


chrisward3  (B 6277)

May 7, 2012, 12:10 PM
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Personally...

I would evac the jumpers out of the plane, remove the pilot from the seat and proceed to guide the plane down. Being in close proximity to the airport means that little flying skill is necessary to keep the wings level as you coast the plane down. Throw the headset on and talk to anyone that will listen and may be able to provide assistance/get the emerg vehicles spun up.

A rough landing (albeit somewhat controlled) on or near the airport that poses some risk to yourself, but can potentially save the pilot, aircraft, and any innocent bystanders should the plane fly aimlessly with no one at the controls (if everyone minus the injured pilot bailed out) is a preferable solution to just letting the plane crash wherever it wants (surely killing the pilot if he was not already dead).

Thats my $0.02 in the what-if game (but i also have some experience flying)


airdvr  (D 10977)

May 7, 2012, 12:32 PM
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Re: [chrisward3] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless you know all of the characteristics of the aircraft you have a pretty good chance of augering yourself and any passengers. Be thankful you learned to skydive and use that equipment for what it was originally designed for...or not. If I'm in the plane with you I'll give you my best Dr. Rumack impersonation and say "good luck, we're all counting on you." as I exit. Wink


normiss  (D 28356)

May 7, 2012, 12:33 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do we have wingsuits on too?
Tongue


milehigheric  (C License)

May 7, 2012, 12:40 PM
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what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would land it....then hold a grudge against the pilot for having a heart attack and stopping me for jumping, well if he survived that is. I do have a PPL however.


stratostar  (Student)

May 7, 2012, 12:47 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would have others help me get him out of the seat and then fly the airplane, get everyone out and then land it. I'm not a PPL holder but have many, many, many hours right seat & some left seat in most jumpships out there from Totters to 182's.

YMMV


(This post was edited by stratostar on May 7, 2012, 12:47 PM)


f1freak  (C License)

May 7, 2012, 12:56 PM
Post #8 of 84 (4428 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

This...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScvG0r6Z2Ac
LaughLaughLaugh


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 1:31 PM
Post #9 of 84 (4392 views)
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Re: [f1freak] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post


now thats just fucking evil. but i couldnt help but laugh.

if the pilot passes out? I don't know how to land a plane, but I know how to make it gain altitude.... ill go up as high as I can, then bail with the pilot.


bochen280

May 7, 2012, 2:12 PM
Post #10 of 84 (4344 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack. Lets say for sake of the situation that nobody knows how to fly a plane on board (that would change the situation entirely if somebody had their PL).

Check first to see if the PNF is conscious first. If also not then...if the flightplan is already programmed into the FMS/FMC/CDU just make sure the appropriate annunciator lights are activated at the right times and that the aircraft is in the correct modes. Use autothrottle, fly the flight director or in VNAV/LNAV/etc modes and if aircraft has FBW systems you don't even have to worry about stuff like trimming, turn coordination, etc declare emergency, get clearance for landing and let the aircraft land and flare itself by using the systems by doing a ILS CAT III autoland. At decision height be prepared to do a TOGA if stuff goes south. Just make sure to capture localizer and glideslope prior to that and at 50ft radio altimeter callout bring throttles back to idle, reversers activated to full position once on ground, back to idle at 80knots.


(This post was edited by bochen280 on May 7, 2012, 2:15 PM)


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 7, 2012, 2:28 PM
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Re: [bochen280] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Check first to see if the PNF is conscious first. If also not then...if the flightplan is already programmed into the FMS/FMC/CDU just make sure the appropriate annunciator lights are activated at the right times and that the aircraft is in the correct modes. Use autothrottle, fly the flight director or in VNAV/LNAV/etc modes and if aircraft has FBW systems you don't even have to worry about stuff like trimming, turn coordination, etc declare emergency, get clearance for landing and let the aircraft land and flare itself by using the systems by doing a ILS CAT III autoland. At decision height be prepared to do a TOGA if stuff goes south. Just make sure to capture localizer and glideslope prior to that and at 50ft radio altimeter callout bring throttles back to idle, reversers activated to full position once on ground, back to idle at 80knots.

C'mon now.. did you see that on a video? LOL. jk! Laugh


I have to admit, I think I would probably make a sorry assed attempt to land it and kill myself and the pilot in the process. Screw the airport though, I wouldn't turn. Just trying and figure out how the flaps work and then gently ease forward on the yoke until I could figure out how to get it back to level from slight decline and then take her down nice and slow until I find a great big field and then put her down and shut the key off, More than likely doing a front flip into the dirt and ending it all for myself.


Edited to add:

On second thought, I would probably be more useful to jump out and run for help...


(This post was edited by packerboy on May 7, 2012, 2:30 PM)


theonlyski  (D License)

May 7, 2012, 2:47 PM
Post #12 of 84 (4311 views)
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Re: [bochen280] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack. Lets say for sake of the situation that nobody knows how to fly a plane on board (that would change the situation entirely if somebody had their PL).

Check first to see if the PNF is conscious first. If also not then...if the flightplan is already programmed into the FMS/FMC/CDU just make sure the appropriate annunciator lights are activated at the right times and that the aircraft is in the correct modes. Use autothrottle, fly the flight director or in VNAV/LNAV/etc modes and if aircraft has FBW systems you don't even have to worry about stuff like trimming, turn coordination, etc declare emergency, get clearance for landing and let the aircraft land and flare itself by using the systems by doing a ILS CAT III autoland. At decision height be prepared to do a TOGA if stuff goes south. Just make sure to capture localizer and glideslope prior to that and at 50ft radio altimeter callout bring throttles back to idle, reversers activated to full position once on ground, back to idle at 80knots.

All of that on a 182? I think not!


FWIW, I'd probably get the pilot out of the seat, get everyone to bail and try to land the plane... But I do have a few hours.

We have a pretty good size Class D right down the road with a nice long runway, I'm sure the owner of the plane would be happy to get it back in one piece and it might even be worth a few beers afterwords.


pchapman  (D 1014)

May 7, 2012, 2:49 PM
Post #13 of 84 (4309 views)
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Re: [bochen280] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Check first to see if the PNF is conscious first. If also not then...if the flightplan is already programmed into the FMS/FMC/CDU just make sure the appropriate annunciator lights are a

A totally joking answer! Smile

It is, right? But given that there's another thread where you show enthusiasm for learning skills off the internet and not through formal classes, one starts to wonder...Crazy


jdpml  (D 18680)

May 7, 2012, 2:59 PM
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Re: [pchapman] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would move his beer away from him and put his head gently on the bar so he would be ok to fly in the morning.
Sly


(This post was edited by jdpml on May 7, 2012, 3:10 PM)


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 3:53 PM
Post #15 of 84 (4261 views)
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Re: [jdpml] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

On another note, I'm sure we could fly the plane around 40 minutes until he wakes up....


/thread


theonlyski  (D License)

May 7, 2012, 4:00 PM
Post #16 of 84 (4252 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On another note, I'm sure we could fly the plane around 40 minutes until he wakes up....

Yup, because people just 'wake up' from heart attack/strokes.


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 4:02 PM
Post #17 of 84 (4250 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
On another note, I'm sure we could fly the plane around 40 minutes until he wakes up....

Yup, because people just 'wake up' from heart attack/strokes.

oh, i thought we were just talking about the pilot just passing out...


theonlyski  (D License)

May 7, 2012, 4:03 PM
Post #18 of 84 (4248 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack.


Didja even bother to read it?


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 4:12 PM
Post #19 of 84 (4239 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack.


Didja even bother to read it?

Yes, 6 hours ago. Forgot about the "massive heart attack" part.


airdvr  (D 10977)

May 7, 2012, 4:43 PM
Post #20 of 84 (4209 views)
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Re: [jdpml] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

LaughLaughLaugh
In reply to:
I would move his beer away from him and put his head gently on the bar so he would be ok to fly in the morning.
Sly
Laugh


jclalor  (B 33202)

May 7, 2012, 4:56 PM
Post #21 of 84 (4193 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Exit last, but first get his watch and wallet.Wink


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

May 7, 2012, 5:14 PM
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Re: [jclalor] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQbj9uvYL8I.....(skip the ad).....Tongue


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 7, 2012, 5:33 PM
Post #23 of 84 (4156 views)
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Re: [bochen280] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
if the flightplan is already programmed into the FMS/FMC/CDU

Not real familiar with jumpships, eh? How exactly do you program a wing-over followed by a 4000 fpm descent from 13k in to a FMS?

Unlike the majority of aircraft out there, paint, panel and interior are very low on the list of 'desireable' features in a jump plane. Jump planes are a different breed and operated in a different manner than most.


theplummeter  (C License)

May 7, 2012, 6:08 PM
Post #24 of 84 (4129 views)
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Re: [davelepka] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
if the flightplan is already programmed into the FMS/FMC/CDU

Not real familiar with jumpships, eh? How exactly do you program a wing-over followed by a 4000 fpm descent from 13k in to a FMS?

Collins ProLine or Universal UNS1? Sly


normiss  (D 28356)

May 7, 2012, 6:11 PM
Post #25 of 84 (4123 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Aim that shit at my ex-wife's house and bail the fuck out.
Tongue


cbennettjr  (C 33407)

May 7, 2012, 6:12 PM
Post #26 of 84 (1929 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Single prop Cessna? Drop the load and land it after declaring an emergency so EMS is there when we land. Otter or larger... point it out to see and get out. The Navy can shoot it down.


Austintxflight

May 7, 2012, 7:59 PM
Post #27 of 84 (1893 views)
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Re: [cbennettjr] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean Ill say what everyone is thinking. I'll eat the pilot if i have to to survive. I'm not ashamed to say it.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

May 8, 2012, 5:42 AM
Post #28 of 84 (1838 views)
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Re: [normiss] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Aim that shit at my ex-wife's house and bail the fuck out.
Tongue

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

Me and you would be arguing 'till the crash happened.

My ex!
No, mine!
My ex!
No, mine!
My ex!
No, mine!

LaughLaugh


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

May 8, 2012, 5:44 AM
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Re: [Austintxflight] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I mean Ill say what everyone is thinking. I'll eat the pilot if i have to to survive. I'm not ashamed to say it.

He's not gonna be happy when he wakes up and his cock is gone.
LaughLaughTongue


normiss  (D 28356)

May 8, 2012, 7:02 AM
Post #30 of 84 (1813 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

LaughLaughLaugh


5.samadhi

May 8, 2012, 7:02 AM
Post #31 of 84 (1813 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

This thread just got weird Laugh


Skyper

May 8, 2012, 7:03 AM
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Re: [popsjumper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

there was a "Myth Bastards" episode on NatGeo channel. They tried to land the Boeing 747 only by following the instructions from the ground. Of course they did this on the training model on the ground and both tries were successfull. I've also read in the news some times ago that one old lady landed some small aircraft after her husband had a hart attack during the flight. She had some previous flight experience however and was guided from the ground.

But anywayz, I would consider consuming the pilot, prior the bail out Laugh

@1.10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozlgei1-hWA

(This post was edited by Skyper on May 8, 2012, 7:29 AM)


Austintxflight

May 8, 2012, 7:52 AM
Post #33 of 84 (1757 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I mean Ill say what everyone is thinking. I'll eat the pilot if i have to to survive. I'm not ashamed to say it.

He's not gonna be happy when he wakes up and his cock is gone.
LaughLaughTongue

mmmm spotted dick.


grimmie  (D 18890)

May 8, 2012, 8:23 AM
Post #34 of 84 (1737 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Chimpanzees very rarely, if ever, have heart attacks.

Stop fretting...They get signed off by a vet after an exam at the dog and cat clinic.

And every skydiver I know thinks they can fly a jump plane better than the pilotTongueSly


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 8, 2012, 12:33 PM
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Re: [grimmie] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And every skydiver I know thinks they can fly a jump plane better than the pilot

You mean we can't?

Sparky


BIGUN  (D 23385)

May 8, 2012, 5:53 PM
Post #36 of 84 (1611 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
And every skydiver I know thinks they can fly a jump plane better than the pilot

You mean we can't?

Sparky

I was thinking something close to that, spark. I'm struggling to think when the last time I was on a 182 jump plane where there wasn't at least 1 other pilot on board.


loch1957

May 8, 2012, 7:48 PM
Post #37 of 84 (1565 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was going to go with John Rich statement untill you and Normiss came along. One or both of you married my X lol. Dont most drop zone have two planes ? oh wait we need three.


yarpos  (D 373)

May 10, 2012, 3:16 AM
Post #38 of 84 (1441 views)
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Re: [cbennettjr] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

i was on a load once where the pilot became ill and was semi conscious about half way to altitude ... the immediate response from a pom ( person from england) near the door was to say " I'm going for help!!" and bail. In the following 20 secs the remaining 7 out of 10 of us went for help (inc. me) ...2 of the more caring souls stayed with the pilot. A brave move I thought in an old Beech.


Bellyflier  (D License)

May 10, 2012, 6:22 AM
Post #39 of 84 (1385 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

This is pretty impressive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbJMzTKh5u8&feature=related


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 10, 2012, 8:51 PM
Post #40 of 84 (1286 views)
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Re: [Bellyflier] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related Wink

Sparky


dirtbox  (D 31759)

May 10, 2012, 8:57 PM
Post #41 of 84 (1298 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

put one of his shoes down his pants Cool


Skyper

May 11, 2012, 1:33 AM
Post #42 of 84 (1263 views)
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true, but she's not a skydiver Laugh


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
May 11, 2012, 4:30 PM
Post #43 of 84 (1167 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

The percentage of skydivers who can also fly an airplane is considerably higher than the average population. You have a better than average chance of somebody else on the plane being able to land it. If so, have that person take controls, declair an emergency and have some fun after you've bailed out. Meanwhile, said pilot can negotiate with the DZ for a party and a few free jumps for all involved and inconvenienced by the event before he actually lands; I mean why not?


theonlyski  (D License)

May 12, 2012, 3:09 AM
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In reply to:
Meanwhile, said pilot can negotiate with the DZ for a party and a few free jumps for all involved and inconvenienced by the event before he actually lands; I mean why not?

Exactly, get them by the short ones as a negotiation asset. LaughLaughLaugh


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 13, 2012, 10:35 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Depends if the plane is still flying straight and level.
If it isn't, I am snapping on my tandem student and bailing-out.
If the airplane is still flying straight and level, I would pull his lazy ass out of the pilot seat and take control. I would make one pass over the DZ and encourage everyone to jump, then land the plane the same way I have landed dozens of Cessna 172s and 182s ... after my passengers bailed on me.

Yes, I have a Private Pilot license, just forgot to renew my medical last year.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

May 14, 2012, 6:36 AM
Post #46 of 84 (962 views)
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Re: [cbennettjr] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Single prop Cessna? Drop the load and land it after declaring an emergency so EMS is there when we land. Otter or larger... point it out to see and get out. The Navy can shoot it down.

After a bit of thought (I really don't know if I would have thought of this at the time)...

I'd declare a medical emergency on board and then fly about 20 miles to the nearest major city, where I could have an ambulance waiting for me to take the pilot about 5 min to a well equipped hospital.
As opposed to landing at the DZ, waiting 15 min for tha ambulance to show up, then giving the pilot a 20 min ride to the (same) hospital.

Compare 15 min or less (10 min flight, 5 min ride) to 3/4 of an hour (5 min to land, 15 min wait, 20 min ride).


cbennettjr  (C 33407)

May 14, 2012, 6:59 AM
Post #47 of 84 (954 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought about this also... it isn't that far a flight to hit some Bravo airports from most of the DZs I jump. Better runways, full medical and a tower with a staff trained to deal with this type of crap.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

May 14, 2012, 8:41 AM
Post #48 of 84 (917 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'd declare a medical emergency on board and then fly about 20 miles to the nearest major city, where I could have an ambulance waiting for me to take the pilot about 5 min to a well equipped hospital.
As opposed to landing at the DZ, waiting 15 min for tha ambulance to show up, then giving the pilot a 20 min ride to the (same) hospital.

Compare 15 min or less (10 min flight, 5 min ride) to 3/4 of an hour (5 min to land, 15 min wait, 20 min ride).

and the jumpers can exit over any open safe area enroute

good for you - most posts are about saving the plane or getting a good spot for the jumpers. instead of saving the sick or dying pilot......


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

May 14, 2012, 3:21 PM
Post #49 of 84 (856 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I'd declare a medical emergency on board and then fly about 20 miles to the nearest major city, where I could have an ambulance waiting for me to take the pilot about 5 min to a well equipped hospital.
As opposed to landing at the DZ, waiting 15 min for tha ambulance to show up, then giving the pilot a 20 min ride to the (same) hospital.

Compare 15 min or less (10 min flight, 5 min ride) to 3/4 of an hour (5 min to land, 15 min wait, 20 min ride).

and the jumpers can exit over any open safe area enroute

good for you - most posts are about saving the plane or getting a good spot for the jumpers. instead of saving the sick or dying pilot......

Or the jumpers can ride the plane over to the other airport. I don't think I'd want to take the time to slow down to door speed.
I would fly the plane back to the DZ and could let them out on the trip back.


nebug  (C 7042)

May 14, 2012, 4:31 PM
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just had to respond to this. This actually happened back in 1973. The C-180 was coming back from an event with jumpers on board without their gear on but in the airplane. The pilot during the flight became too incapacitated (read drunk) to land the airplane. One of the jumpers who had some time in J-3s and Luscombes (taildragger) landed the 180 without a problem even thought he had never flown a C-180 before. No one injured. I don't remember the names of anyone involved though and I'll deny everything.


piisfish

May 15, 2012, 1:00 AM
Post #51 of 84 (1545 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I pull my cellphone out, video it, upload the vid on youtube, post it on my Facebook profile to make it viral... and then file a complain to the FAA in order to make medical checks more difficult.


Skyper

May 15, 2012, 2:40 AM
Post #52 of 84 (1540 views)
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Re: [piisfish] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I pull my cellphone out, video it, upload the vid on youtube, post it on my Facebook profile to make it viral... and then file a complain to the FAA in order to make medical checks more difficult.

I don't think that would be possible. Cell phone umts network can in extreme cases reach 1000m (3000ft). In most cases the network signal is non existant above 300m (1000ft).


piisfish

May 15, 2012, 2:55 AM
Post #53 of 84 (1532 views)
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Re: [Skyper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

that's in your country... not in mine Smile Over here we need cell phone coverage in the mountains too, so we can still be on the phone just before exiting. Plus you could always push on the yoke till you have decent 3g coverage Angelic


Skyper

May 15, 2012, 3:39 AM
Post #54 of 84 (1526 views)
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Re: [piisfish] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Plus you could always push on the yoke till you have decent 3g coverage Angelic

Smile

that's why I choose to bail out asap.


theonlyski  (D License)

May 15, 2012, 6:56 PM
Post #55 of 84 (1459 views)
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Re: [Skyper] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I pull my cellphone out, video it, upload the vid on youtube, post it on my Facebook profile to make it viral... and then file a complain to the FAA in order to make medical checks more difficult.

I don't think that would be possible. Cell phone umts network can in extreme cases reach 1000m (3000ft). In most cases the network signal is non existant above 300m (1000ft).

I've received/sent texts as high as 8k in jump planes, and I've actually held phone conversations around at least 2500' AGL. (my flight headset has a port to plug my iPhone into so... was talking hands free and all Tongue)


robinheid  (D 5533)

May 18, 2012, 10:52 AM
Post #56 of 84 (1384 views)
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Re: [nebug] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

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I just had to respond to this. This actually happened back in 1973. The C-180 was coming back from an event with jumpers on board without their gear on but in the airplane. The pilot during the flight became too incapacitated (read drunk) to land the airplane. One of the jumpers who had some time in J-3s and Luscombes (taildragger) landed the 180 without a problem even thought he had never flown a C-180 before. No one injured. I don't remember the names of anyone involved though and I'll deny everything.

Nebug brings up a good point. What do you do if the pilot is not unconscious but merely overwhelmed?

In the above case, impairment was the cause, but what if it's other circumstances?

Here's a survival story that's exactly the same except completely different:

Jumpers returning in a Cessna from a boogie. Pilot is VFR-rated.

Suddenly they are in unforecasted soup.

Zero-zero.

In mountains.

Rigs onboard but not on, and where would you go anyway?

Solution?

Pilot kept his eyes on the balls (wings level, tail straight)

Jumper #1 watched the vertical climb indicator.

Jumper #2 watched the heading.

Jumper #3 watched everything just in case somebody else missed something.

Result? They made it through the soup back to CAVU and the PIC handled it from there.

Lesson? Even if you aren't a pilot, you can still be part of the solution if you:
  • stay calm

  • keep thinking

  • get creative



44
Cool


5.samadhi

May 18, 2012, 3:44 PM
Post #57 of 84 (1334 views)
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Re: [robinheid] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

cool post Robin Smile


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

May 19, 2012, 3:51 AM
Post #58 of 84 (1296 views)
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Re: [robinheid] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Inadvertant IMC by committee. Never learned that one...


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 20, 2012, 8:00 AM
Post #59 of 84 (1247 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I pull my cellphone out, video it, upload the vid on youtube, post it on my Facebook profile to make it viral... and then file a complain to the FAA in order to make medical checks more difficult.

I don't think that would be possible. Cell phone umts network can in extreme cases reach 1000m (3000ft). In most cases the network signal is non existant above 300m (1000ft).

I've received/sent texts as high as 8k in jump planes, and I've actually held phone conversations around at least 2500' AGL. (my flight headset has a port to plug my iPhone into so... was talking hands free and all Tongue)

......................................................................

The real problem is that using a cell phone in an airplane ties up too many cell towers.

Nav Canada air traffic control) publishes control tower phone nmbers and encourages pilots to phone them if they experience radio problems in flight.


wayneflorida  (D 30566)

May 22, 2012, 9:31 AM
Post #60 of 84 (1175 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Inadvertant IMC by committee. Never learned that one...

Followed by CFIT by committee.Unsure


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2012, 7:15 AM
Post #61 of 84 (1101 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
... I've received/sent texts as high as 8k in jump planes, and I've actually held phone conversations around at least 2500' AGL. (my flight headset has a port to plug my iPhone into so... was talking hands free and all Tongue)
"

.......................................................................

The last time a jump-pilot did that over Chilliwack, B.C., he descended into clouds and it took three weeks to find the wreckage on a heavily-forested, steep, mountain-side.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

May 27, 2012, 9:14 AM
Post #62 of 84 (1071 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

All you jump pilots out there flying home from boogies, consider getting VFR flight following from ATC. We're there to help. And should you accidentally encounter bad weather, we can immediately assist you instead of having you blindly fly into a hillside. I've helped a number of VFR pilots who encountered IMC conditions. None of them lost their license or anything like that.

All you jumpers out there, start doubting you pilots a little and let them know it's okay to say "no" or to turn around and land safely short of the destination. "Get-home-itis" is one of the most deadly diseases in aviation. And if you have a cowboy pilot that does "fun" things with the airplane, esp. on take off, tell the DZO you're not jumping until they fire his a$$.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 27, 2012, 5:44 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack. Lets say for sake of the situation that nobody knows how to fly a plane on board (that would change the situation entirely if somebody had their PL).
If I wasn't deaf (which I am), I would make every effort to try to call up an air traffic control tower. Being "talked down" to a successful survivable landing, by a ground pilot, is possible. (In fact, Mythybusters confirmed it too.) .... Alternatively, if there was no response on the main radio, I'd try to see if some student skydiver has his radio and an instructor is on the ground, I might try to ask for somebody to get on the main radio. (If the student jumper already jumped a few times and didn't really need the radio, I'd ask for the radio before he/she bails!) I would ask for a pilot on the ground to give me all the data for the specific plane I was in (flap settings, throttle settings, feather settings, etc) to give me some quick over-the-air pilot instruction. I would then attempt to land it someplace where I had lots of safety overrun/underrun margin and few obstacles. Preferably on a runway, if I could successfully set up an approach to it. Assuming the plane has about three or four loads of fuel plus a safety margin, I'd be able to fly for a couple hours for practice, keeping an eye on whatever fuel gauge there was. If there was no radio response, then if the plane was flying level at high altitude without steering input, and I had a cellphone, I would try to text people at the dropzone to inform them that the pilot was gone/unconscious and that I would attempt to come back to land the airplane. Then put away the phone and focus. (exception to the cell phone rule. And the phone would keep reattempting to transmit the text, until successful. Notifying the dropzone to vacate/clear the dropzone, or suddenly scramble to try to raise me on VHF radio)

Being a skydiver, you have an advantage of knowing not to turn too hard at low altitude (it dives), and that you ideally prefer to flare before landing, as well knowing that adding flaps is like doing braked parachute flight, you are a bit ahead of a non-pilot (which can still be successfully talked down to a landing by a pilot on the ground).

I already know there are markers on some important indicators that you really need to pay attention to. Important one is the airspeed. Don't go below the minimum speed. There's usually a red marker on a number on the air speed indicator, such as 80 knots. Don't go below that airspeed, or you could stall. If I immediately notice stall danger, I'd push the steering down carefully to nose down to speed up (and I'd then also push the throttle too, if it's seems to be at a very low position). Things will interact (i.e. flaps affect stall speed, etc) so I'd be cautious.

Now, if it was all over farmland an the pilot has a bailout rig, damning the airplane to its destruction, is probably more attractive. But I also know it's possible to land an airplane survivably without being a pilot.

Non-pilots have landed small airplanes before in an emergency. Pilot has heart attack, passenger takes over, tower talks them down, plane survives (sometimes with collapsed nose wheel, etc). Examples include Helen Collins (80yo wife of hubby pilot that had heart attack)

For my situation, because I am deaf, it would be different. (If there was a radio, I'd try to keep announcing repeatedly on the radio about the pilot being down and then what I plan to do. I may keep intermittently repeating the word "mayday, mayday" on the radio just to be sure that someone is clear that I'm an airplane in distress, with no traffic control guidance capability, and you'd better clear the damn hell out of my way.) I may try to attempt to fly/learn the plane for almost an hour, and then try to land it back the dropzone airstrip if I knew where it was and there was sufficient runway margin. Or the nearest huge flat opening I could find, such as a freshly plowed farm field or big grass field, or quiet beach, or even calm water, or nearby towerless (aka VFR-only) quiet municipal airport field, etc...


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on May 27, 2012, 6:04 PM)


theonlyski  (D License)

May 28, 2012, 4:34 PM
Post #64 of 84 (988 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd also like to point out, it would probably be a good idea in this situation to squawk 7700 (for people scratching their heads, this is basically telling ATC that you have an emergency, ask your pilot to show you how to use your transponders, but keep that for emergency use ONLY!)

John - in Marks description above, being deaf... would he be better off squawking 7600 or 7700? I'd tend to think 7700 so the controllers know there's something wrong other than the radio not working... and they can anticipate that it could include radio failure or inability to use it.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 28, 2012, 4:46 PM
Post #65 of 84 (986 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
John - in Marks description above, being deaf... would he be better off squawking 7600 or 7700?
Can I squawk both? 7700, then 7600, then back to 7700. Signalling a 7600 would be useful because I am deaf. But then again, a non-responding 7700 would be pretty automatically probably mean a mayday anyway and that ATC should clear the hell out of my path when they see a 7700 flying random paths non-responsively on their screens...

It's almost definitely never going to happen, I'm sure, but that little tidbit of sqawk knowledge is interesting.

BTW, on the topic of non-pilot flying airplanes, another non-pilot, Colton-Harris Moore stole and crash-landed several airplanes. I think some of us would be able to fy better that, even with somewhat less Flight Simulator experience than he did, having observed more actual pilots flying their airplanes, and some practical basic piloting knowledge from the parachute.


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on May 28, 2012, 4:54 PM)


theonlyski  (D License)

May 28, 2012, 4:51 PM
Post #66 of 84 (980 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Aviate
Navigate
Communicate

Wink


IMO: The less things ya got going on the better, I'd rather get the wings level, maintaining altitude, figure out where I am/need to be, THEN dick with the radios. I'd probably attempt to contact the local approach freq, flight watch, anyone in the area that'll hear me... then squawk 7600/7700 if unable to communicate... at that point depending on the situation, I may just stick on 7600... but I do have a little experience in the left seat of small Cessnas/Mooneys...


Edit: I didn't post the meaning of the squawk codes because I want people to go look for themselves, the more you know type of thing. Angelic


(This post was edited by theonlyski on May 28, 2012, 4:55 PM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 28, 2012, 6:31 PM
Post #67 of 84 (968 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hell just squak 7500, that will get theri attention.

Sparky


theonlyski  (D License)

May 28, 2012, 7:57 PM
Post #68 of 84 (950 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hell just squawk 7500, that will get their attention.

Sparky

Yup, that passed out pilot will become the least of your problems.


(This post was edited by theonlyski on May 28, 2012, 8:58 PM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

May 28, 2012, 11:22 PM
Post #69 of 84 (931 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
John - in Marks description above, being deaf... would he be better off squawking 7600 or 7700?
Can I squawk both? 7700, then 7600, then back to 7700. Signalling a 7600 would be useful because I am deaf.
Actually alternating between the two is appropriate and recommended in some situations. I think yours would be one of those. Laugh


NickDG  (D 8904)

May 29, 2012, 12:17 AM
Post #70 of 84 (928 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sort of happened to me once. I was JM with a load of static line students in a C-182. We lined up for T/O and a few moments after the pilot put the power to A/C he passed out cold. I pulled the throttle back, pushed the student that was up against the panel to the side, and reached down with my hands to work the rudder and brakes. We ran off the RWY but I managed to get it stopped before we hit anything . . .

NickD
:)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

May 29, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #71 of 84 (895 views)
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Re: [NickDG] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sort of happened to me once. I was JM with a load of static line students in a C-182. We lined up for T/O and a few moments after the pilot put the power to A/C he passed out cold. I pulled the throttle back, pushed the student that was up against the panel to the side, and reached down with my hands to work the rudder and brakes. We ran off the RWY but I managed to get it stopped before we hit anything . . .
Holy $hit. Nice work, Nick. CoolCool


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

May 29, 2012, 1:21 PM
Post #72 of 84 (867 views)
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Re: [NickDG] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sort of happened to me once. I was JM with a load of static line students in a C-182. We lined up for T/O and a few moments after the pilot put the power to A/C he passed out cold..............
NickD
:)

Wow! Very nicely done. I'm guessing most jumpers wouldn't even know which one of those peddles were the brakes? Wink


normiss  (D 28356)

May 29, 2012, 7:22 PM
Post #73 of 84 (838 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Right next to the clutch!
Tongue


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 30, 2012, 8:28 AM
Post #74 of 84 (802 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate
Good one. Like pull/pull at altitude/pull at altitude while stable.

Obviously, I'd be making sure the plane was level in stable flight with nothing alarming ahead. I don't know the frequencies on the main radio though, so I'd probably call up on the current frequency and stay on it, unless there was a button labelled "EMERG" or other convenient method of accessing a memorized frequency.
Quote:
Hell just squak 7500, that will get theri attention.
If I get a fighter jet escort, I'll know I've accidentally squawked the wrong frequency, radioed the wrong guy, or flew somewhere I shouldn't have.

Fighter jet escort flies alongside. (Pilot waves sternly at me) Me? You're pointing at me? Me? (pilot points ahead) Down? At this big military runway over there? OK. Gulp. At least I'll be crash-landing on something big. Wink


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on May 30, 2012, 8:33 AM)


Amyr  (C License)

Jun 1, 2012, 2:27 PM
Post #75 of 84 (741 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have seen all the AIRPLANE movies and have discussed in great detail to my pilot at my dropzone if he was to eat a bad tuna sandwich that I felt I needed to be properly trained to land the plane.

He still wont let me even steer the damn thing!


theonlyski  (D License)

Jun 1, 2012, 2:47 PM
Post #76 of 84 (580 views)
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Re: [Amyr] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have seen all the AIRPLANE movies and have discussed in great detail to my pilot at my dropzone if he was to eat a bad tuna sandwich that I felt I needed to be properly trained to land the plane.

He still wont let me even steer the damn thing!

Heh, I may have seen a tandem student steer the Cessna once... reaching past the pilot and hand on yoke.

That's if I DID see it, which depends who's asking.


hackish  (No License)

Jun 20, 2012, 6:08 AM
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Re: what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

Simple single engine aircraft are not that difficult to fly and land. Short of ground effect that we don't really get with landing a parachute, skydivers are already familiar with many of the concepts.

Yes you could bail but worry about how far the AC will go before it crashes into something (school, hospital, uninhabited soccer field?) Spin the roulette wheel...

I think the majority of skydivers would be successful on getting the AC on the runway. (It may not be pretty and may not fly again). However, calling mayday will get you priority and emergency vehicles. Doing a forced landing in a farmer's field is far less desirable because it could be 1/2h before anyone gets there to help.

If the pilot has had an MI or stroke he/she may not survive anyway. Who cares about the AC, it's the lives of those on board (yours) and the lives of those where it might crash.

-Michael


FreefallSnoopy

Jun 23, 2012, 9:58 AM
Post #78 of 84 (428 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What would you do on board the plane if the pilot became unconscious and did not respond to attempts to revive? For instance if he/she were having a massive heart attack. Lets say for sake of the situation that nobody knows how to fly a plane on board (that would change the situation entirely if somebody had their PL).

DOOR!


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 23, 2012, 10:40 AM
Post #79 of 84 (418 views)
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Re: [hackish] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Simple single engine aircraft are not that difficult to fly and land. Short of ground effect that we don't really get with landing a parachute, skydivers are already familiar with many of the concepts.

Yes you could bail but worry about how far the AC will go before it crashes into something (school, hospital, uninhabited soccer field?) Spin the roulette wheel...

I think the majority of skydivers would be successful on getting the AC on the runway. (It may not be pretty and may not fly again). However, calling mayday will get you priority and emergency vehicles. Doing a forced landing in a farmer's field is far less desirable because it could be 1/2h before anyone gets there to help.

If the pilot has had an MI or stroke he/she may not survive anyway. Who cares about the AC, it's the lives of those on board (yours) and the lives of those where it might crash.

-Michael

First priority would be getting enough altitude to get everyone out and on their mains if possible.

Yes single engine aircraft are not real hard to fly if you have the basic concept...landing one fully loaded with restless meat-bombs is another story.

Not advisable.

Picture a fully loaded 182 or 206 with the jumper dumper vapor-locking, strapped in behind the the yoke.
Getting people out is step 1...if one person has the chops to stay behind, put the diver-driver on the deck and try to land ~ then go for it. Cool

Or the last man standing could try to AFF the incapacitated pilot after shutting off the fuel and turning off the key...quite a handful at altitude much less down & dirty.

Personally as a self-centered old fart...if I'm by the door it would be MY duty to make room for someone else to play John Wayne. C-YA! DevilSly


dninness  (D 19617)

Jun 23, 2012, 1:34 PM
Post #80 of 84 (399 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have a PPL, but I have enough bootleg time in aircraft over the years (including some landings) that you might even be able to use the airplane for the next load after you get the deadbeat pilot out of the way.Unsure

Although honestly I'd opt for the larger muni 6 miles north of the DZ, since they have a firestation with paramedics right on the airfield, and of course, the runway is wider and longer.

Even the Otter. Damn plane ain't that hard to fly.


5.samadhi

Jun 23, 2012, 2:56 PM
Post #81 of 84 (391 views)
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Re: [dninness] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

well I hope you're on board because if just me and Airtwardo are on board looks like we're doing an AFF jump with the pilot Unimpressed


theonlyski  (D License)

Jun 23, 2012, 3:27 PM
Post #82 of 84 (388 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
well I hope you're on board because if just me and Airtwardo are on board looks like we're doing an AFF jump with the pilot Unimpressed

I think you misread twardo's post.

Looks like it will be a one sided AFF jump, if yer lucky, he might be around for outside video though. Tongue


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 23, 2012, 3:38 PM
Post #83 of 84 (383 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
well I hope you're on board because if just me and Airtwardo are on board looks like we're doing an AFF jump with the pilot Unimpressed

I think you misread twardo's post.

Looks like it will be a one sided AFF jump, if yer lucky, he might be around for outside video though. Tongue

Yup....I'm going for help! Laugh


5.samadhi

Jun 24, 2012, 9:56 AM
Post #84 of 84 (357 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] what do if pilot becomes unconscious? [In reply to] Can't Post

your posts are instant classics Cool



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