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1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier?

 

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diablopilot  (D License)

May 2, 2012, 6:08 PM
Post #76 of 171 (1393 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
with tandems, max you can do is 3 in an hour, given that it goes up to 12.5.

with packing, max you can pack is 12 to 15 sport rig and 8-10 tandems.

at max pace all day long, unpacking tandem parachute is much easier than packing tandem parachute. IMO. You just sit there for 20 min and get out,throw drouge, pull drogue release, flair land, drop your gear and done.

while when the ti's get down from 20 min of sitting, your packer have just finished packing 3rd tandem rig.

You're doing it wrong.

I land from a tandem, debrief them and fill out their log book, greet my next student, suit and harness them and train them for the jump. Then I load them on the 100 degree non air conditioned airplane, and ride up to 9,000 feet while I scarf a snack or drink a gatorade, hook them up, train them again, shelp them to the door, exit, do turns, track, good with the camera flyer, and get them to pull. I them instruct them for the next 5 to 8 minutes on canopy control, do some turns, practice landings and talk them through a landing which they assist with. I then shelp the gear in while chit chatting and upselling the skydiving program and second training tandem, drop off the gear ungear them and debrief then and fill out their log book greet my next student, suit and harness them and train them for the jump. Then I load them on the 100 degree non air condit......

Yep. Just sitting around doing nothing for 20 minutes....


diablopilot  (D License)

May 2, 2012, 6:12 PM
Post #77 of 171 (1392 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

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I can't even really think of a more condescending remark.

I can. It was when you implied that anyone who charged extra for a heavy tandem was morally bankrupt for doing so when you have never been in their shoes. No one ever discounted your experience in the sport, simply that you had none in the area you were commenting on.


SansSuit  (D 21554)

May 2, 2012, 7:27 PM
Post #78 of 171 (1374 views)
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Re: [BobMoore] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How big are mediocre sized people? I'm dyin' to know.
I believe they are just a bit smaller (or larger) than extra medium people. Wink


DARK  (B 31685)

May 2, 2012, 8:50 PM
Post #79 of 171 (1355 views)
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Re: [bochen280] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

So everyone realises this is a troll right?

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I mean it doesn't help matters that I was both taller and heavier than my instructor by a significant amount...

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not a PLC (I didn't even know what that term was until much later when I read the SIM about types of landing techniques)
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There was a girl beside me doing tandem with another instructor and she had a stand up landing and I felt really bad about myself.

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stand up landings at the DZ all the time that morning when I first drove in..... it doesn't seem that difficult at all....

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I work in IT but definitely not a geek.

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This is going to sound weird, but even though I purchased the packaged that included everything, I specifically told them to put away the cameras and that I didn't want the camera man. I didn't go there to make "memories", and I don't think the "first time" is any different than the nth time

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didn't want the annoying camera jumper to be distracting me from the already short free fall time

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Are there any water landing DZ for AFF? There is nothing safer than a soft water landing right?

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I understand that at higher altitudes water is not "soft" and the impact is same as hitting concrete

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Ever since watching Point Break as a kid that's something I always wanted to do. (yes, I know the skydiving portrayed in that movie is not realistic) I have no problem swimming and would not drown.

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but seriously tandem is kinda gay for a guy to do... and it is not even a real skydiving...

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You know what Jackie Robinson? If we had you on our baseball team it may just be a little bit harder to deal with the press, you know, what with you being black and all. And it might be a little bit harder to sell tickets because, you know, people really aren't that used to a black person around here. So we are just going to go ahead and take a little off your salary to compensate for the harder work that we are going to have to do... I mean.. it is going to be a little tougher for us.. Because, well, you just aint the same.

I cant believe you are equating a fat tax to racism.

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It costs a different amount to treat people equal. Not debating that. It should be absorbed is what I'm saying. I've seen it absorbed by a small market Cessna drop one without putting them under.

the smaller the dropzone the easier it would be to absorb tbh. its the large tandem factories, doing hundreds and hundreds of jumps a week, who have to buy new gear yearly and perform 100 jump checks on gear every couple of weeks and are constantly changing kill lines and drogues and linesets, that need to pay careful attention to these things.

edit; for what its worth and so that you can just discount my opinion without further thought I believe airlines should charge a fat tax so I definitely have no problem with dropzones doing it although if I owned my own place I probably wouldnt charge one myself.


(This post was edited by DARK on May 2, 2012, 8:55 PM)


prada

May 3, 2012, 1:06 AM
Post #80 of 171 (1333 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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I am only a beginner, but what I think is, there is no relevant connection between fall rate and landing/flaring.
Except may be that the faster you come down the better the flaring actually works.


Prada
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Someone should tell the swoopers that they are killing themselves diving at the ground for no reason!


Lol - somehow I think you know exactly what I was trying to explain to the guy with the sprained ankle...
:-)


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 3:31 AM
Post #81 of 171 (1326 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

You were right about one thing Ron, I just couldn't let it go. I was going to, but that that big internet dick kept being shoved in my face.

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I land from a tandem, debrief them and fill out their log book, greet my next student, suit and harness them and train them for the jump. Then I load them on the 100 degree non air conditioned airplane, and ride up to 9,000 feet while I scarf a snack or drink a gatorade, hook them up, train them again, shelp them to the door, exit, do turns, track, good with the camera flyer, and get them to pull. I them instruct them for the next 5 to 8 minutes on canopy control, do some turns, practice landings and talk them through a landing which they assist with. I then shelp the gear in while chit chatting and upselling the skydiving program and second training tandem, drop off the gear ungear them and debrief then and fill out their log book greet my next student, suit and harness them and train them for the jump. Then I load them on the 100 degree non air condit......

I was going to type all that out, but I didn't feel the need because diablopilot already did. I knew all that. So what is left? I don't know how heavy the tandem rig is? Actually I do, because I carried them around on the ground a lot. I don't know what it it is like to move around in the plane with a student attached to you? Well I've been in the plane while it is being done and I have eyes and ears. It's really not that hard to imagine. I don't know how hard it is to flare with a student on you? Well I do know what it takes to flare some parachutes with some weight, so i can somewhat imagine the difference. Not withstanding, my TI did let me try to flare myself a couple times to see what it was like. So I have an idea. I'll assume that diablopilot just left all the gear checking and in flight handle checks out because he didn't feel like boring us with all the details. <--- that was a little humor to lighten the mood.

I have been in a job slinging 40lbs bags of chemicals around and dumping them into bins.. 75,000lbs of them in a shift by myself.

This "you have zero knowledge" thing is bullshit. I have a pretty fucking good idea of what it takes to do tandems. It's not rocket science. I just haven't done them. Get over yourself. I've never made a turkey dinner either, but I have a pretty good idea that it's a hell of a lot of work because I've seen my mom and wife do it a bunch of times. Never once said it was easy or that doing a 100lber is the same as doing a 250lber. You guys assumed that I'm an idiot and I know nothing and I must believe this to be true. If you can't understand how I actually do have an idea of how hard it is to do something without actually having to do it, then I guess our brains operate differently and I suppose we will just continue to chase our tail here.

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One big difference between us..... I have not tried to call you names. I have not tried to belittle your work , claiming to know more than you. I have not said you have bad morals (Well, in sarcasm to make a point).

A: I have never once tried to belittle your work
B: I have never once claimed to know more than you, I have just claimed to know more than ZERO.
C: If you are the one who decided it is OK to charge the fat tax, than yes. I do challenge your morals. That was my original point.

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Yet you have tried to claim that packing is harder.... Seeing that you have no relevant experience in one of the two.... Your opinion is not backed by data other than second hand.

I actually did a poll for my tandem instructor friends on my facebook account. Call it second hand, but I consider it better data than what you tell me, because I have no idea who the hell you are.

100% of them felt that packing all day is harder than doing tandems all day. Actually most of them said that doing tandems was WAY easier. Again, I've been around the dropzone enough. Done one, seen the other one done a lot. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. I bet doing tandems is harder than working manifest...

A couple of them felt that tandem instructors should get paid a little more for the harder work, however 0% of them felt that this should be passed on to the customer. And yes, a few of them have worked at DZ's that do charge customers for it.

1 of them said the bigger the better. More swoopage.

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This thread had NOTHING to do with the "fat tax" till you went off on your rant. You insulted anyone that does not agree with your views as "greedy" and that they "disgust" you.

My bad, should I have started a new thread. Greedy was probably a little offside because it isn't exactly a tonne of money, but discrimination does disgust me.

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I can't even really think of a more condescending remark.

Really? How about his one?
"swinging their inflated sky god ego around here for as long as I can remember"

condescending/&#716;knd&#601;&#712;sendiNG/
Adjective:

Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.
(of an action) Demonstrating such an attitude.

I never said that I was better than you or anyone else. I was merely stating (by using the term sky god, we all know what it means) that that is the attitude you demonstrate when you say I have done this and you haven't so you must have ZERO knowledge. I know what it takes to be a prep cook, yet I have never done it. I just worked in a restaurant long enough to know. And I have been around dropzone.com long enough to know who is a condescending "sky god" and who is not. I'm sure that diablopilot is intelligent enough to understand the irony of his own signature.

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Your morals are bankrupt.... You charge more for a tandem packjob knowing that it is the only way most people will ever get to jump... It is simple highway robbery. You should only charge what you would charge a solo jumper to pack the parachute.... Degree of difficulty and time it takes does not matter, all that matters is your selfish desire to make more money at the expense of tandem students who are not able to jump by themselves.

This sound foolish? Well, it is the SAME type of logic you are trying to use on TI's that do not agree with you.

Umm, no.

A single user rig brings $35 into the revenue stream of the dropzone.

A tandem rig brings $350 into the revenue stream of the dropzone.

Big difference. Two different products. Similar by nature, but different.

When you are doing a 150lb tandem, you are doing a tandem. When you are doing a 225lb tandem, you are still doing a tandem. If it's harder.. sure, let the DZ pay you a little more, fuck it I don't care. What I care about is passing that on to the customer.

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I know the DZ in question. I asked them why they charge more and the answers they gave me were:

1. They are more work for the TI
2. They put more wear on the gear
3. They have a higher risk of injury.

#'s 1 and 2 I didn't dispute.

#3 WTF? There is more of a chance somebody is going to get hurt, so we are just going to go ahead but charge you more money.

Really? Maybe I am stupid because It's not really complicated, but I still don't get it.



Moral of the story is that you are offering a product. You offer to person A for a different price than you offer it to person B because person B is well, lets just go ahead and call them fat.

Do what you want with compensating the TI's... but you are discriminating against the customer if you charge them for it. If you find that offensive to yourself. Well good.

I guess that's the way I intended it to sound.

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Point 4. If you find a measuring tape for me, we can finish this dick measuring competition.

I have just the right tool for you JP!
http://tinyurl.com/7buokph


Remster

That's funny. I like that guy.


(This post was edited by packerboy on May 3, 2012, 4:08 AM)


linebckr83  (D 30571)

May 3, 2012, 8:21 AM
Post #82 of 171 (1270 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Some really good points you made there.

Out of curiosity, what aircraft do you have out there? Is it a busy dropzone, or more of the 182 type?

I know the majority of my fatigue comes from crawling around a 182 with a 50lb rig and a student. And the rest comes from doing all the "staff" stuff that some TI's at bigger dropzones don't usually have to do since there are other people hired to do it.

So like the tandem packers out here, I basically don't stop moving from sunrise to sunset. Can we just call it a washout? Cool

In your defense, even though a big (read fat) person is harder to deal with in every aspect of the jump, from the climb to landing, I have always felt that it is a small price to pay to get the opportunity to take the cute 100lb blonde girl who keeps shooting me a look Laugh That makes the big ones worth it.


Abedy  (D 10153)

May 3, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #83 of 171 (1269 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I land from a tandem, debrief them...

+1! CoolWink


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #84 of 171 (1249 views)
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Re: [linebckr83] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Was 182/206 DZ for the most part up until they got a King Air last year...


Ron

May 3, 2012, 9:47 AM
Post #85 of 171 (1245 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

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Umm, no.

Uh, yeah,

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A single user rig brings $35 into the revenue stream of the dropzone.

A tandem rig brings $350 into the revenue stream of the dropzone.

Big difference. Two different products. Similar by nature, but different.

You are using ONE data point, and even that data point is flawed. So the only thing that matters is the amount of money the DZ gets? Doesn't that sound even worse since your only concern is money?

Guess what? The DZ makes more when they charge the fat tax as well... Using your own logic, then it is fine.

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This "you have zero knowledge" thing is bullshit. I have a pretty fucking good idea of what it takes to do tandems.

"Pretty fucking good" != to actual knowledge.

So if I claimed that since I have seen 20 sport packjobs in a day that I am experienced enough to know what packing 20 tandems is like... You would accept that? And if I then made the claim that packing 20 tandems is not nearly as difficult as say... cleaning a toilet, you would accept my "knowledge" of the subject?

I call BS.

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It's not rocket science. I just haven't done them. Get over yourself.

And that sentence speaks your attitude perfectly. You have not done it, but you THINK you know more than people who have, and if people do not agree with you, you insult them.

Again: One big difference between us..... I have not tried to call you names. I have not tried to belittle your work , claiming to know more than you. I have not said you have bad morals.

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I never said that I was better than you or anyone else. I was merely stating (by using the term sky god, we all know what it means) that that is the attitude you demonstrate when you say I have done this and you haven't so you must have ZERO knowledge.


Well the real definition of skygod is claiming you know more than you do.

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Moral of the story is that you are offering a product. You offer to person A for a different price than you offer it to person B because person B is well, lets just go ahead and call them fat.

And that is really simple...And the same reason you charge more for a tandem packjob. It is more work.

But again, I'll make the offer. YOU pick the time period and we BOTH will contribute to the charity of YOUR choice the difference between a tandem/sport packjob you do and a big/normal tandem jump that I do... Deal?

Wanna make it a year?


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 10:23 AM
Post #86 of 171 (1232 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

We are seemingly deadlocked with semantics. You've had pretty good rebuttals to this point, but none than I can really agree with, and it's just starting to get repetitive and boring.

I'll call it discrimination, you call it what you want. I'll take your points into consideration and not really change my opinion. You can call me a moron subtly without actually calling me a moron so you can say you've never called me moron and we just go see who can jump more cars on their skateboard and call it a day? That way we won't have to show Remster that not every dick can be measured with a micrometer. He doesn't need to know what he doesn't know. :)

Insert diablopilots signature line here--><---


(This post was edited by packerboy on May 3, 2012, 10:27 AM)


Ron

May 3, 2012, 10:46 AM
Post #87 of 171 (1222 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

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You can call me a moron subtly without actually calling me a moron so you can say you've never called me moron

Again unlike you, I have never called you a name, nor even hinted at it. I have simply said that logic dictates that you cannot be truly knowledgeable about something you have not done or experienced. I have asked you to admit that, which you have refused to do.

For you to claim that a bigger person is not more work enough to warrant a larger compensation would be the same level of argument if I claimed that a tandem packjob is not anymore difficult and therefore not worth the extra pay.

But again, I'll make the offer. YOU pick the time period and we BOTH will contribute to the charity of YOUR choice the difference between every tandem/sport packjob you do and a big/normal tandem jump that I do... Deal?

Wanna make it a year?



packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 12:51 PM
Post #88 of 171 (1189 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm quite prepared to make that deal. How's this one?


http://www.childhoodobesityfoundation.ca/

Here's how you make your donations. Address to send the cheque is at the bottom.

http://www.childhoodobesityfoundation.ca/donations


(This post was edited by packerboy on May 3, 2012, 3:33 PM)


mx19  (D License)

May 3, 2012, 2:39 PM
Post #89 of 171 (1158 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

were you charged extra to do a tandem when you started? is that what all this is about?

in my eyes the customer knows that they are paying more because they are fat... if they dont like it go to another dz (no one is making them jump there) or hit the gym, its really that easy!

Fwiw i havent worked at a dz that charges extra for people over the limit but wouldnt have any morality issues doing so.


Ron

May 3, 2012, 2:47 PM
Post #90 of 171 (1154 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Perfect, so how long of a period?


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 2:52 PM
Post #91 of 171 (1146 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

1 yr is fine.


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 3:13 PM
Post #92 of 171 (1139 views)
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Re: [mx19] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
were you charged extra to do a tandem when you started? is that what all this is about?

in my eyes the customer knows that they are paying more because they are fat... if they dont like it go to another dz (no one is making them jump there) or hit the gym, its really that easy!

Fwiw i havent worked at a dz that charges extra for people over the limit but wouldnt have any morality issues doing so.

I'll kill a few birds with this stone.

No I was not. The picture in my profile is me. I am clearly "mediocre" sized.

Black people knew they where sitting at the back of the bus because they were black too. Yes i did. I just compared it with racism again, because I feel that discrimination is discrimination.

I know when I went to do my first tandem they could've robbed me blind with extra fees, I was there and I wanted to do it bad. Thank god I didn't call Skyride. I'd still be paying off the loan.

Sometimes losing weight is really not THAT easy, although I cannot speak from experience because I'm not fat. Oh shit, I've gone and done it again.. ZERO knowledge to make that last comment. My take on losing weight means shit. My bad. Maybe if the tandem instructors can't handle the extra weight THEY should hit the gym.


(This post was edited by packerboy on May 3, 2012, 3:32 PM)


Ron

May 3, 2012, 5:07 PM
Post #93 of 171 (1103 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok so for 1 year:

I will forward any 'fat tax' payment and you will forward the difference between a sport pack and a tandem pack for every tandem pack you do?

Of course this depends on me still doing tandems (which I do) and you still packing them. Do you?


Austintxflight

May 3, 2012, 5:24 PM
Post #94 of 171 (1097 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

can we extend the fat tax argument to the tunnel. How about we weigh everyone and charge per pound multiplied by wind speed. So a fat guy flying on his belly might be the same cost per minute as a little girl doing head down.

Its obvious that people are not square pegs and each person may require more or less work than another and cause more wear and tear on equipment than others. I'm sure TI's have had tandem students who took alot more work than average students but had nothing to do with weight.

All jobs that have heavy customer service aspect have fluid amounts of work per customer. How you segment these populations and service them in terms of pricing is up to the DZ in this case to determine what makes the most financial sense while keeping customers happy. Also as with the OP there comes a safety level when someones weight or lack of mobility becomes an injury concern.

I believe an easy solution is to just hold firm to a max weight which you will not take a tandem customer and everything else is the same price.'

I do believe there is a difference in telling them they are too fat or heavy to jump vs saying they are too black or chinese or too gay to jump. Weight and fitness level have a definite effect on safety while those other things do not.


bochen280

May 3, 2012, 5:27 PM
Post #95 of 171 (1097 views)
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Re: [DARK] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So everyone realises this is a troll right?

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I mean it doesn't help matters that I was both taller and heavier than my instructor by a significant amount...

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not a PLC (I didn't even know what that term was until much later when I read the SIM about types of landing techniques)
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There was a girl beside me doing tandem with another instructor and she had a stand up landing and I felt really bad about myself.

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stand up landings at the DZ all the time that morning when I first drove in..... it doesn't seem that difficult at all....

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I work in IT but definitely not a geek.

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This is going to sound weird, but even though I purchased the packaged that included everything, I specifically told them to put away the cameras and that I didn't want the camera man. I didn't go there to make "memories", and I don't think the "first time" is any different than the nth time

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didn't want the annoying camera jumper to be distracting me from the already short free fall time

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Are there any water landing DZ for AFF? There is nothing safer than a soft water landing right?

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I understand that at higher altitudes water is not "soft" and the impact is same as hitting concrete

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Ever since watching Point Break as a kid that's something I always wanted to do. (yes, I know the skydiving portrayed in that movie is not realistic) I have no problem swimming and would not drown.

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but seriously tandem is kinda gay for a guy to do... and it is not even a real skydiving...

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You know what Jackie Robinson? If we had you on our baseball team it may just be a little bit harder to deal with the press, you know, what with you being black and all. And it might be a little bit harder to sell tickets because, you know, people really aren't that used to a black person around here. So we are just going to go ahead and take a little off your salary to compensate for the harder work that we are going to have to do... I mean.. it is going to be a little tougher for us.. Because, well, you just aint the same.

I cant believe you are equating a fat tax to racism.

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It costs a different amount to treat people equal. Not debating that. It should be absorbed is what I'm saying. I've seen it absorbed by a small market Cessna drop one without putting them under.

the smaller the dropzone the easier it would be to absorb tbh. its the large tandem factories, doing hundreds and hundreds of jumps a week, who have to buy new gear yearly and perform 100 jump checks on gear every couple of weeks and are constantly changing kill lines and drogues and linesets, that need to pay careful attention to these things.

edit; for what its worth and so that you can just discount my opinion without further thought I believe airlines should charge a fat tax so I definitely have no problem with dropzones doing it although if I owned my own place I probably wouldnt charge one myself.

I'm not sure why you think I'm a troll. All I can say is everything I have written is the truth (see att below) and if you don't believe me, well, what can I say... sometimes reality is stranger than fiction.

Also, some here have mistakenly thought I was charged a "fat tax"... this is incorrect. I stated very clearly in my original post that I was NOT charged a fat tax because I was NOT over the weight limit. I only mentioned the so-called "fat tax" in passing because this was my first experience with skydiving/tandem/etc and thought it was something novel and new to me. But my intent was not to complain about the extra fee, in any case no extra fee was incurred anyway.

I paid $409 for the tandem VIP package. I simply wanted a good skydiving experience and could care less (and thus avoided) the camera dude, the DVD disc of video and still shots, or the bottle of wine, etc... I had always wanted to go skydiving and simply never "got to it"... I realize that is my fault that I procrastinated in life, not the DZ's nor TI/TM's. This was a last minute thing and I was just thankful that they could get me up in the air at all... so I was more than happy to pay whatever cost. Ideally I would have liked a solo "real" skydiving experience, but due to the way business is ran the DZ only offers that on certain days of the weekend and even then arrangements would probably have to have been made in advance... thus, my only option was a tandem. So I settled for less than what I wanted. To me, the best part about skydiving is the free-fall experience. I could personally care less about the dingy little airplane with no seats and the parachute almost choking me alive on opening... or the bad landing and broken ankle for that matter... or the whole sub-"culture" that revolves around the sport. It is the activity itself that I love, not the regulation, the FAA, the USPA, the DZs, the other jumpers or the so called camaraderie.

The purpose of this post was to get perspective from more experienced jumpers what solo landing is like compared to tandem, not to "troll".


(images too large to attach to this site, I uploaded png pics to Amazon servers)

http://bochen280.s3.amazonaws.com/skydiving/001.PNG

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(This post was edited by bochen280 on May 3, 2012, 5:41 PM)


Ron

May 3, 2012, 6:02 PM
Post #96 of 171 (1081 views)
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Re: [bochen280] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

CA Dave is a super qualified instructor.

Havi g worked at SDD for 3 years I can tell you that in all my 19 years of skydiving you would be very hard pressed to find a more professional DZ. the student program there is the best I have ever worked in short of the military.

And the simple answer to your question is: No and yes.

No, you are just as likely to get hurt on a solo jump and maybe more likey to get hurt... My wife broke her ankle with something like 70 jumps. You just do not have the depth perception and timing yet... This is why we would put you on really big canopies that are more forgiving.

But, the fact of 4 legs trying to land at once... Well, that complicates things as well.

I'd bet that if you compared the number of tandem jumps to the number of solo student jumps.... You would find less broken tandem students


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 6:14 PM
Post #97 of 171 (1076 views)
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Re: [Austintxflight] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
can we extend the fat tax argument to the tunnel. How about we weigh everyone and charge per pound multiplied by wind speed. So a fat guy flying on his belly might be the same cost per minute as a little girl doing head down.

Its obvious that people are not square pegs and each person may require more or less work than another and cause more wear and tear on equipment than others. I'm sure TI's have had tandem students who took alot more work than average students but had nothing to do with weight.

All jobs that have heavy customer service aspect have fluid amounts of work per customer. How you segment these populations and service them in terms of pricing is up to the DZ in this case to determine what makes the most financial sense while keeping customers happy. Also as with the OP there comes a safety level when someones weight or lack of mobility becomes an injury concern.

I believe an easy solution is to just hold firm to a max weight which you will not take a tandem customer and everything else is the same price.'

I do believe there is a difference in telling them they are too fat or heavy to jump vs saying they are too black or chinese or too gay to jump. Weight and fitness level have a definite effect on safety while those other things do not.

Absolutely there is a difference when safety is involved. First and foremost every tandem instructor should reserve the right to refuse should they not feel that it is in the best interest of safety to go. Whether it is a student that is too large, out of shape, small in winds, drunk, or if the instructor is just plain too tired to perform at the level necessary or any other reason that the instructor feels that it is not safe.

Telling someone that they are too fat to safely jump is one thing. Telling them that they are too fat to pay the same price as the guy standing beside them IMO is the same as telling them they are too black, chinese or gay.

To the OP, I understand you were not charged this tax and I apologize for hijacking this thread. Hopefully you pick yourself up, and if you are in good shape great, if not , get in shape and come back. Ultimately the number one focus of any business should be treating your customers with respect and equality as a human being and doing what it takes to retain their future business. Hopefully your next DZ experience won't end up with a broken something.

IMO, and my disclaimer is that I am not an instructor. However I did work for one of the pioneers of the sport who invented IAD (Instructor Assisted Deployment, allegedly) as one of the safest mainstream training method for solo first time jumpers. He trains only by doing tandems first now. Tandem is still the way to go until you get accustomed to what your mind is going to go through when you are taken out of your element and put in a position where you are exiting an aircraft in flight. Everyone's response to this sort of sensory shock is different and you honestly don't know what it is going to be until you experience it. it is best to have someone with you that really knows what the hell they are doing and has their full wits about them in case something goes wrong. Because it can, and it sometimes does. Get a couple of those out of the way and you are on your way. 2 or 3 tandems in the grand scheme of things if you are going to become a jumper and do hundreds or thousands of jumps is really going to be a drop in the bucket and you will be glad to have done them. There are other roads to go down, but I think even Ron and Diablopilot would agree with me that tandem is the best. I'm sure they would disagree that it is gay too. Maybe.. I don't know what I don't know you know?

I'm sure either one of these dudes that I have been arguing with here would be a great choice as a tandem instructor. That have tonnes of jumps, they know their shit better than most and are extremely passionate about their sport. They probably have the best lame jokes out there too. I bet they are pretty awesome guys when they aren't behind a keyboard disagreeing with you. Of course I would've bet the Patriots were going to win the Superbowl too..

Good luck. Blue Skies.


crotalus01  (B 28932)

May 3, 2012, 6:34 PM
Post #98 of 171 (1066 views)
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Re: [bochen280] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

So, just curious if you are going to do AFF, and if so why? Doing solos gets boring very fast, and you state that you dont care for the culture or about jumping with other skydivers - or am I misinterpreting what you said?


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 6:36 PM
Post #99 of 171 (1063 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Gee, I was wondering when you were going to ask me that. Of course I don't. You think I'm going to give up thousands of dollars that I sweat my ass off for all summer just to call your bluff? How stupid do you think I am? Or were you wondering if I would just lie about it and not give up the money? That's not how I roll. I don't say things that I believe to be untrue. Not even on the internet to prove a point. That'd be a shit ass deal. I'm sure you wouldn't make much more than a few hundred off it in a summer. I know it's just principal to you and the money doesn't matter. I will give you that much respect.


bochen280

May 3, 2012, 8:21 PM
Post #100 of 171 (1042 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well as I said in an ideal world I wish newbies (myself, etc) would be allowed to rent / purchase gear, go to a DZ, sign whatever liability waivers, watch a comprehensive and interactive video course on skydiving and then let go at it.

I understand we do not and never will live in such ideal worlds... just as DZ IS a business, and like any other venture, it has to do what it has to do to turn a profit and strive... Skydiving is a privilege not a "right" so a "fat tax" would not be discrimination because unlike the example with Rosa Parks, falling out of an airplane - unlike bus transportation - is not a "public service" or a living necessity... The DZ can charge whatever they want and do the tier pricing if they wish, ultimately it is a business and they will adjust to supply/demand...

I've always been interested in all things flight, aviation, space related... whether it is general aviation, flight simulator, spacecraft and model rockets, or skydiving. For whatever reason(s) I just never really got to skydiving until now (the one tandem) I'm not a "sport" type of person at all, don't really work well in groups, no tattoos, don't drink, don't curse, don't smoke or do drugs, etc... and I definitely wouldn't "fit it" with the skydiving culture and said generalized archetypes. And of course as individual we all view things and life from different perspectives and angles... to me skydiving is something that is closer to flight/aviation than it is to a so called extreme sport. Two other related things that I've never tried and still want to do are the wind tunnel and the zero gravity ride... so you see I view skydiving along those lines... in fact for me it is all about the freefall... the parachute part is just an afterthought (but a necessary afterthought... lol) Sure wind tunnel kinda does the same, but without the scenery of course... I'm not trying to trivialize nor negate the fact that skydivers with D licenses worked their butt off through perseverance, dedication, skill, etc to get to their positions... and it is something I would like to continue doing (once my feet gets better) and at this point in my life I'm not married, no kids, no girlfriend, etc... so it is the ideal stage in my life to do skydiving (when you got nothing you got nothing to lose) because no matter what the statistics say, fact is skydiving IS a dangerous activity and it is not something I would continue to pursue if I had better things (or rather people) in my life to spend time with.


(This post was edited by bochen280 on May 3, 2012, 8:22 PM)


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