Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier?

 

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diablopilot  (D License)

May 2, 2012, 6:41 AM
Post #51 of 171 (1703 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've been present for the operations of thousands of tandem jumps.

I've DONE thousands, er 7,000.


In reply to:
I've been in a Cessna 182 hundreds of times with tandem pairs.

Yeah, me too.

In reply to:
I have packed probably close to a thousand tandem rigs and probably as many sport rigs.

Yeah, 2,000+


In reply to:
I've done 5 tandem jumps as a passenger.

Yeah, 57.

In reply to:
You are absolutely correct, I have absolutely NO CLUE because I have never ridden the back of a tandem passenger and have no right to an opinion that has absolutely NOTHING to do with how much more work a tandem jump with a heavier passenger is. I have never once said it isn't more work. I merely stated that charging someone more money for the exact same product based on their physical attributes is discrimination, and it stinks to high heaven. Feel free to continue discriminating because you make more money doing so. It's your right.

Point 1. You're welcome to your opinion.

Point 2. I'm welcome to mine.

Point 3. You invite me to express my opinion when you imply that people are dirtbags for charging more for more work.

Point 4. If you find a measuring tape for me, we can finish this dick measuring competition.


linebckr83  (D 30571)

May 2, 2012, 6:57 AM
Post #52 of 171 (1698 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Packing 40 tandem rigs in a day is sure as hell harder work than doing 15 tandem jumps.

You said you have a thousand tandem pack jobs right? I have close to 3 times that, all before I became a TI. I know what its like to pack tandem rigs all day. I also know what its like to jump with tandem students all day.

The most I've done is 10 tandems in a day, and I can assure you that on a hot humid day like it usually is here, that is considerably more work than packing parachutes. 15 would be even worse. Try not to make comparisons when you haven't experienced both sides.


Premier Remster  (C License)

May 2, 2012, 7:39 AM
Post #53 of 171 (1688 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Point 4. If you find a measuring tape for me, we can finish this dick measuring competition.

I have just the right tool for you JP!
http://tinyurl.com/7buokph


normiss  (D 28356)

May 2, 2012, 7:56 AM
Post #54 of 171 (1681 views)
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Re: [Remster] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

No pinch?


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 2, 2012, 8:04 AM
Post #55 of 171 (1678 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dick measuring contests are about ego. I'm really not sure where my ego came into it. I just threw a few numbers out there to try and point out that my experience is not completely baseless.

Alas, I digress. I know fuck all. I bow down to you sky gods. Enjoy your extra $10 or whatever.

I almost forgot that every thread on this fucking website is a dick measuring contest.

I hold my ground that charging someone who is 195lbs and someone who is 225lbs a different price for a tandem jump is tasteless.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

May 2, 2012, 8:06 AM
Post #56 of 171 (1678 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is no safer way for a student to make a jump than tandem... There is no more dangerous way for an instructor to make a jump.
Not sure that is true Ron. If I am not doing a tandem I am likely going big on my landing; probably more dangerous than my next tandem.


Ron

May 2, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #57 of 171 (1668 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Not sure that is true Ron. If I am not doing a tandem I am likely going big on my landing; probably more dangerous than my next tandem.

OK, it should of read:

There is no safer way for a student to make a jump than tandem... There is no more dangerous way for an instructor to make an *instructional* jump.


Ron

May 2, 2012, 8:39 AM
Post #58 of 171 (1664 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm really not sure where my ego came into it.

It came into it because you refuse to admit you do not have the relevant experience related to this subject.

Quote:
I just threw a few numbers out there to try and point out that my experience is not completely baseless.

How many jumps do you have as a TI?
How many jumps do you have as a TI with 200#+ students?

If the answer to both is ZERO, then you have no experience that is relevant.

The same goes with you claiming that 15 TI jumps is easier than packing 40 rigs. Since you have ZERO TI jumps, you just do not have the basis to make that call.

Quote:
I almost forgot that every thread on this fucking website is a dick measuring contest.

It most often becomes that when a person has strong opinions but no relevant data to back them up but still thinks they should be considered the final word anyway.

Quote:
I hold my ground that charging someone who is 195lbs and someone who is 225lbs a different price for a tandem jump is tasteless.

You have the right to that opinion, but you need to admit that you don't have the first clue how much more difficult a 225 pounder is than a 100 pound student.


normiss  (D 28356)

May 2, 2012, 9:27 AM
Post #59 of 171 (1657 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

^This.


theonlyski  (D License)

May 2, 2012, 9:33 AM
Post #60 of 171 (1653 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You have the right to that opinion, but you need to admit that you don't have the first clue how much more difficult a 225 pounder is than a 100 pound student.

At least they're less likely to try to kill you and they're stable!


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 2, 2012, 10:42 AM
Post #61 of 171 (1630 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

I will admit that I do not know how much harder to do a tandem with a 100lber than it is a 225lber. This much I give you. I have zero experience doing tandems. I do however get knowledge and opinions about skydiving related things from people who do. Real people, not just ones on the Internet. I have had this discussion with tandem instructors before in the flesh. It was mulled over at the drop zone and dismissed almost unanimously.

However. Once again. I NEVER said it wasn't harder. Not once. I said I felt it was wrong to charge extra. Seems like those who do not share my opinion (which is fine) are the ones who feel their ego as a sky god TI is in question. It is not. I test your morals not your ego, if you cannot discuss one without the other than that's your issue. Not mine.

I did say that it is harder to pack 40 tandems than it is to do 15 tandems. That comes from second hand information I got at 10:00pm with tandem instructors who have been packers standing around in the hangar on their 3rd beer while I finished up the half dozen or so pack jobs left after the last load.


(This post was edited by packerboy on May 2, 2012, 10:58 AM)


Ron

May 2, 2012, 11:34 AM
Post #62 of 171 (1618 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Seems like those who do not share my opinion (which is fine) are the ones who feel their ego as a sky god TI is in question. It is not. I test your morals not your ego, if you cannot discuss one without the other than that's your issue. Not mine.

Comments like that is why it becomes a dick measuring contest. You admit you have no idea how hard it is, yet you insult anyone that dares not agree with you.

Quote:
I NEVER said it wasn't harder. Not once. I said I felt it was wrong to charge extra.

And if I admitted that it might be harder to pack a tandem than a sport rig, but that you were morally wrong for charging more for a tandem just because you are robbing money from the tandem passengers and penalizing them for not being able to jump by themselves.... How much credibility would you give me?

Your morals are bankrupt.... You charge more for a tandem packjob knowing that it is the only way most people will ever get to jump... It is simple highway robbery. You should only charge what you would charge a solo jumper to pack the parachute.... Degree of difficulty and time it takes does not matter, all that matters is your selfish desire to make more money at the expense of tandem students who are not able to jump by themselves.

This sound foolish? Well, it is the SAME type of logic you are trying to use on TI's that do not agree with you.

Like it or not... More work should get more pay. It is more work to pack a tandem, you should get paid more. It is more work to jump with a big guy and the TI should get paid for that as well. Also, bigger people DO put more wear on gear and the owners of that gear should be compensated for it.

I know the DZ in question. I asked them why they charge more and the answers they gave me were:

1. They are more work for the TI
2. They put more wear on the gear
3. They have a higher risk of injury.

In fact they had data that showed that almost every tandem that was hurt out there was over a certain weight (I don't recall that weight). And due to that, they stopped taking people over that weight. Incidents dropped after that choice. Now, you may bash them for being insensitive for not taking big people.... But that is their RIGHT as a business owner.

But to make this all fair.... You start only charging normal solo rates for packing tandems and I will not take the fatty tax. In fact, you pick the time period and during that entire time we will BOTH send the difference to the charity of YOUR choice... Deal?


(This post was edited by Ron on May 2, 2012, 11:48 AM)


normiss  (D 28356)

May 2, 2012, 12:07 PM
Post #63 of 171 (1608 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Boom!


stayhigh  (F 111)

May 2, 2012, 12:34 PM
Post #64 of 171 (1595 views)
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Re: [linebckr83] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done both, doing tandems all day and packing all day.

and doing tandem all day is much easier than packing all day.

If doing tandem all day is harder on your body vs packing all day, you are doing it wrong.


normiss  (D 28356)

May 2, 2012, 12:44 PM
Post #65 of 171 (1590 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

or just the wrong rig?
Angelic


stayhigh  (F 111)

May 2, 2012, 12:53 PM
Post #66 of 171 (1584 views)
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Re: [normiss] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

with tandems, max you can do is 3 in an hour, given that it goes up to 12.5.

with packing, max you can pack is 12 to 15 sport rig and 8-10 tandems.

at max pace all day long, unpacking tandem parachute is much easier than packing tandem parachute. IMO. You just sit there for 20 min and get out,throw drouge, pull drogue release, flair land, drop your gear and done.

while when the ti's get down from 20 min of sitting, your packer have just finished packing 3rd tandem rig.


(This post was edited by stayhigh on May 2, 2012, 12:54 PM)


dorbie

May 2, 2012, 1:04 PM
Post #67 of 171 (1572 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm not fat or rotund, just heavy...

...that coupled with the fact that I've never been a very flexible person (in terms of legs, stretching, arms, etc).

In reply to:

So...you're overweight & out of shape.

...but then again,~

The harness was too tight, the helmet too small, the goggles too loose, the TM too short, the altitude to little -Shocked

~Lucky ya survived at all! WinkSly
For a student injured on his first tandem his attitude is pretty good I'd say.


(This post was edited by dorbie on May 2, 2012, 1:06 PM)


normiss  (D 28356)

May 2, 2012, 1:07 PM
Post #68 of 171 (1566 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Then I need to stop doing 4 an hour and find this magical DZ with 20 minute sit down cycles.
I spend mine with paperwork from previous jump and gearing up / training next tandem.

I also cannot slow down my pace at the end of the day and finish up after the aircraft shuts down.

Not to say packers aren't hard workers, I realize they are.
Back to back tandems all day is no day in the park either.


Austintxflight

May 2, 2012, 1:34 PM
Post #69 of 171 (1562 views)
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Re: [normiss] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

So going back to the OP, one thing to think about, if you're a little bigger and had some dexterity problems, landing solo in perfect conditions might be easier, but since you have some physical limitations that may decrease your ability to run out a landing or recover. So bottom line, the better shape and health you are in, will only be a positive for skydiving.

Secondly, you don't want to land in water, its really not that great. Being over water its tough to gauge height because the water is so uniform, (also the same over alot of sand like in a desert.) Once you get in the water, you either have to disconnect your rig, or swim out of it, not getting caught on lines or coming up for air under the fabric, then either leave your thousands of dollars worth of gear behind as you swim to safety or attempt to pull it ashore, and now your nice 220 SQ ft canopy is completely filled with water and weighs 5 times as much.

Once you get out of the water, you have possible electronics, or altimeters that could be water damaged, and you probably are not going to get another jump in that day on your gear. Or you can work to learn how to land better so you can land on terra firma and be on the next load with your friends.


Mickochet  (D 26656)

May 2, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #70 of 171 (1549 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

You obviously have no business experience. If you don't want to work at a dropzone that charges more money for a tandem based on weight then by all means don't. You are trying to say that it is discrimination when it is not that at all. Tandem gear is very expensive. Think about it this way. If you have a tandem rig that is only used for petite students and another tandem rig that is only used for the larger customers. Which one do you honestly think will need replacing sooner? At our dropzone the extra fee that the overweight customer is charged is divided equally between the T/I and the gear fund.


(This post was edited by Mickochet on May 2, 2012, 2:11 PM)


linebckr83  (D 30571)

May 2, 2012, 2:35 PM
Post #71 of 171 (1533 views)
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Re: [normiss] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Then I need to stop doing 4 an hour and find this magical DZ with 20 minute sit down cycles.
I spend mine with paperwork from previous jump and gearing up / training next tandem.

I also cannot slow down my pace at the end of the day and finish up after the aircraft shuts down.

Not to say packers aren't hard workers, I realize they are.
Back to back tandems all day is no day in the park either.

Same way out here. Land, nice long walk back to the hangar due to airport construction preventing a close landing, drop the rig and immediately start on the next groups paperwork/training, go edit videos, finish up with the prior group, head to the plane. The only time I do sit is in the plane, but being a 182 and being 6'2'' and Martin at 6'7" and 2 students its never a really comfortable ride up.

I remember the days packing tandems all day. It sucked too I remember. But besides my fingertips I never really hurt anywhere and had enough energy to go out on the town later. Maybe I'm just getting older Pirate but after a day of tandem jumps I am hurting all over, especially the legs, and want nothing more than to go to bed. Blush

The pay is definitely better upacking tandem rigs as opposed to packing them though! In all seriousness, I'm sure it has a lot to do with someone's physical level and experience doing either job. I doubt the OP wanted to read a debate on who works harder though.


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 2, 2012, 2:51 PM
Post #72 of 171 (1521 views)
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Re: [Ron] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

:
Quote
Seems like those who do not share my opinion (which is fine) are the ones who feel their ego as a sky god TI is in question. It is not. I test your morals not your ego, if you cannot discuss one without the other than that's your issue. Not mine.

Comments like that is why it becomes a dick measuring contest. You admit you have no idea how hard it is, yet you insult anyone that dares not agree with you.

I probably didn't word that right. What I meant is that the certain people who are the ones who have chosen to argue my point in this here forum seem to be the same ones who have been swinging their inflated sky god ego around here for as long as I can remember. I certainly did not mean that they are egotistical BECAUSE they disagree with my theory.


Actually, the dick measuring contest began when I was told that I have zero experience and I have no idea what I am talking about therefore my opinion holds no weight.

It isn't my comment that made it a dick measuring contest It was this one from diablpilot:


In Reply To
I'm not interested in becoming a tandem instructor.

Then your comments on the matter mean exactly shit.


I can't even really think of a more condescending remark. When I replied to this by stating that while I haven't personally done tandems, I didn't just start going to the dropzone last week. I've been around the dropzone for a little while and have eyes and ears. I don't need to whack down 7000 trees to understand that logging is hard work. And for the umpteenth time, I never said that doing heavy tandems isn't harder. My post about my experience was met by a post by someone who says well I'VE done this, and I'VE done this, and I'VE done this.. so your experience is shit and doesn't matter.

I didn't start the dick swinging contest. I just have the intelligence to see through the subtle ad hominem attack and chose to reply with a blunt, in your face "skygod" attack back. I admit that my response had nothing to do with the actual argument. But if some douchebag is going to try and refuse my argument by shoving his big internet dick down my throat, I certainly retain the right to spit it out as opposed to crawling into a corner and sucking on it.

I'll take the few positive responses I got for little support from those who smartly chose not to get involved in the whole trolling incident that I have regretfully been a part of and move on. But for what it's worth, when it comes to me and how much I do actually know ->ron, diablo, you don't know what you don't know.. right? I have never done tandems so I guess you know that I'm deaf and blind. I surprised your heads fit in the same room as the keyboard you spew your egotistical shit onto.

I will let it go now. There's really no point in trying to argue equality to someone who thinks the little box on the side which has bigger numbers on it makes him genetically superior.

I will take home some arguments from others who I believe have softened my opinion on the matter by throwing out some logical argument instead of their dick. Still haven't been pushed over the fence though.

Sorry for the poor formatting, most of these posts were from my phone.


stayhigh  (F 111)

May 2, 2012, 3:14 PM
Post #73 of 171 (1511 views)
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Re: [normiss] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

you sit while you go up the alititude, and you sit in the harness.

even back to back how do you manage to do 4 in an hour???
unless you've got king air.
I would love to do back to back all day.

so typical 10 hour work day in summer you make 40 jumps??


(This post was edited by stayhigh on May 2, 2012, 3:18 PM)


Ron

May 2, 2012, 3:15 PM
Post #74 of 171 (1510 views)
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Re: [packerboy] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I probably didn't word that right. What I meant is that the certain people who are the ones who have chosen to argue my point in this here forum seem to be the same ones who have been swinging their inflated sky god ego around here for as long as I can remember. I certainly did not mean that they are egotistical BECAUSE they disagree with my theory.

And I did word mine correctly... It is comments like yours above which make it a dick measuring contest. You have ZERO knowledge about the topic yet expect to be taken as the lord almighty when you speak your opinion?

Quote:
I can't even really think of a more condescending remark.

Really? How about his one?
"swinging their inflated sky god ego around here for as long as I can remember"

Quote:
And for the umpteenth time, I never said that doing heavy tandems isn't harder.

Yet you have tried to claim that packing is harder.... Seeing that you have no relevant experience in one of the two.... Your opinion is not backed by data other than second hand.

So, if I said: "Packing a tandem is simple, even though I have never done it myself, hell I have seen children do it" You would be 100% correct to call me out on that.

Quote:
I didn't start the dick swinging contest.

Um...Yeah, ya did. I'll even show you where.
"all I could think about was the fact that some dropzones still charge a "fat tax". Disgusting. If you are too big to jump, you are too big. If you are not too big to jump you should be treated just like everyone else, even if it takes a little more effort to do so. I can't get over the greediness of that..."

This thread had NOTHING to do with the "fat tax" till you went off on your rant. You insulted anyone that does not agree with your views as "greedy" and that they "disgust" you.

So yes by the very definition, you started the dick swinging.

Quote:
I'll take the few positive responses I got for little support from those who smartly chose not to get involved in the whole trolling incident that I have regretfully been a part of and move on

Hell, you STARTED it with the above quote. This thread had NOTHING to do with the fat tax till you spewed your rant all over it.

Quote:
I have never done tandems so I guess you know that I'm deaf and blind.

No, we have said you have no idea what it takes to do a tandem and no idea how much more it takes to do a heavy tandem.... and that is true. Quit trying to make yourself an innocent victim.

Quote:
I surprised your heads fit in the same room as the keyboard you spew your egotistical shit onto.

One big difference between us..... I have not tried to call you names. I have not tried to belittle your work , claiming to know more than you. I have not said you have bad morals (Well, in sarcasm to make a point).

Quote:
There's really no point in trying to argue equality to someone who thinks the little box on the side which has bigger numbers on it makes him genetically superior.

I doubt you will let it go. You have not let a lack of knowledge about a topic stop you yet.


diablopilot  (D License)

May 2, 2012, 6:00 PM
Post #75 of 171 (1467 views)
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Re: [Remster] 1st time tandem landing, broken ankle, would solo landing be easier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Point 4. If you find a measuring tape for me, we can finish this dick measuring competition.

I have just the right tool for you JP!
http://tinyurl.com/7buokph

You know I love you.

Just like in prison.


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