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anyone pay for packing class during A license training

 


firematic47

Apr 24, 2012, 6:51 AM
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anyone pay for packing class during A license training Can't Post

Hello,
Im curious if anyone paid for a packing class during their training before? I have two dropzone to choose from that are equal distance to me. One is a club that only operates on the weekend and has kind of a bnad rep for accidents. the other is a business that operates all wk, but charges for a packing class (2hrs for $75) and makes everyone go to 20 min tunnel training in another state. Anyone hear of a training program like this?


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Apr 24, 2012, 7:07 AM
Post #2 of 33 (2798 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes. Many dropzones include tunnel training, and many charge for their packing classes.

Edit to add: I paid for an actual packing class, but all the additional hands-on packing assistance/teaching that I got after that from packers, instructors, and other jumpers was free. Cool


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Apr 24, 2012, 8:38 AM)


JohnnyMarko

Apr 24, 2012, 7:11 AM
Post #3 of 33 (2791 views)
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Anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

To answer the thread title question, no I did not pay for my packing class during my A training. (small 182 dropzone)


Southern_Man  (C License)

Apr 24, 2012, 7:14 AM
Post #4 of 33 (2785 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

I paid for a packing class but it was not a mandatory part of the training. If you could learn to pack another way and could pass the "pack with assistance" and "pack without assistance" jumps through another means (usually an experienced jumper showing you how to pack) then you did not have to take or pay for a course.


5.samadhi

Apr 24, 2012, 8:18 AM
Post #5 of 33 (2749 views)
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Re: anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

The tendency for a dz to charge for a packing class goes up the bigger the dz is, in my observational experience. I have worked at multiple dropzones packing and I have always had time out of the unpacked tandems hitting the packing mat to teach beginners the principles of packing. Whether thats showing them as I pack a sport rig (slower than normal to walk them through it) or whether thats giving them pointers while THEY pack.

I have visited a couple big dropzones and overheard paying for packing classes...this is because they have so many students come through that it becomes hard to manage and you need to pay somebody to manage it (its more work compared to a student or three every weekend to teach when its 10 students each weekend that need to learn).

peace


chrisward3  (B 6277)

Apr 24, 2012, 9:07 AM
Post #6 of 33 (2717 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

cost me a bottle of 18yr old scotch...welllll worth it!


hillson  (D 33134)

Apr 24, 2012, 9:36 AM
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

I considered it a tip as it went directly to the packer as he not only assisted but watched like a hawk while I packed without assistance several times Money well spent IMHO.


DougH  (D License)

Apr 24, 2012, 9:48 AM
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Re: [hillson] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

If you take a staff member away from jumping whose sole income is from making work jumps why shouldn't that individual get compensated for their time. They are providing a service and they are a professional, totally fair for them to get compensated.

I will gladly give free packing lessons if time allows for it, but I don't pay my bills with work jumps.

What I have seen which pisses me off is jumpers having to pay for packing lessons but after the lesson they aren't cleared to pack their student gear. The DZ then charges them a packing fee for having one of their packers "supervise", even if the jumper is perfectly capable of packing unsupervised.

That chaps my ass. If the packing class is worth paying for then a fair number of the students should be able to pack after it is done. Granted, some questions remain after the class but most students shouldn't need full supervision after the class.

If that isn't the case you need to overhaul your packing lesson, or you need to say that all student gear gets packed by packers only, but the above seems exploitative.


shattenjager  (C 41561)

Apr 24, 2012, 10:07 AM
Post #9 of 33 (2667 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello,
I did pay $80 last year but it was not mandatory to take a class, if you learned by yourself that would be acceptable as well.
For me was a one to one training, plus I could practice packing student rigs all day under the rigger supervision.


Morrison79  (C 37447)

Apr 24, 2012, 10:22 AM
Post #10 of 33 (2653 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

It costs me a few cases of beer.


hillson  (D 33134)

Apr 24, 2012, 11:05 AM
Post #11 of 33 (2625 views)
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Re: [DougH] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

i was writing quickly on my phone...it was all done in the context of the packing class.

students can pack their own rental rigs after the class. so do, some dont. the only time it is an issue is if it is really busy and there are more students than gear.


Ron

Apr 24, 2012, 11:24 AM
Post #12 of 33 (2608 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

You seem to have several questions.... I'll answer each as best I can.

1. Anyone paid for a packing class during their training before?

The answer personally for me is that I didn't pay for a packing class, but it is quite normal to charge for a packing class. I didn't pay for my class because I learned at a small DZ 19 years ago and it was a weather day. But most DZ's I have worked at charge for the class.

2. Which of the two DZ's?

Well, you answered it with, "has kind of a bnad rep for accidents". If true, then I would avoid the place till you know if the rumors are true. I'd have to ask how did you get this information and how do you know that it is valid?

3. Ever hear of a training program that uses tunnel?

Yes, I have taught many versions of AFF/tunnel both military contract and civilian. It works very well if done correctly.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Apr 24, 2012, 11:46 AM
Post #13 of 33 (2581 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

No, I did not.

I'd charge people for that. Free things seem to have no value.
1-4 jump tickets might provide enough attention.


gzimmermann  (D 31852)

Apr 24, 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #14 of 33 (2570 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

A friend of mine just recently paid 80 USD. She packed 3 times under coaching, more or less 4 hours work. Rather cheap if the instructor does a good job if you ask me.
I heard that in other countries almost every spare minute is spent with practicing packing on the way to the license. Unlike in the US where you can pay a few bucks for a packjob and progress to the B or 80 jumps without having a real clue of packing (like myself). I was happy - and also a little regretful - to learn how to properly check for lineovers and some tricks to get regular on-heading openings (body position given) only after some 500 pack jobs from a good friend having suffered from proper packing training in his starting days...


Austintxflight

Apr 24, 2012, 12:50 PM
Post #15 of 33 (2528 views)
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Re: [gzimmermann] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

20 Minutes of Tunnel time is nice early on, really helps you pass your jumps which in the end saves you money.

I paid for a packing class, but you can also find a packer willing to teach you and negotiate something on the side.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Apr 24, 2012, 12:59 PM
Post #16 of 33 (2519 views)
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Re: [Austintxflight] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

The owner of the DZ was happy to teach me how to pack! I later found out that I was to become a "packer". I spent the rest of the summer flaking T-10's and PC's. Packers today have it easy!! Tongue


lookoutbelow  (A 63826)

Apr 24, 2012, 4:57 PM
Post #17 of 33 (2430 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't pay for a class, but my local DZ does offer one. One of my instructors was kind enough to get me started free of charge during a moment of downtime and I also paid the DZ packers a little extra a few times to let me shadow them. That and a lot of personal practice in between. That being said, I would have gladly paid for the course they offer. Everyone deserves to make a living.


strife  (D 5457)

Apr 25, 2012, 2:06 AM
Post #18 of 33 (2352 views)
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Re: [lookoutbelow] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

Simliar my DZ doesnt offer specific class but provides recommendation of a couple of packers that run one or two on one classes. Did mine last Sunday for a couple hours was great to go more indepth over the rig and canopy, ask some questions get some tips and a bit of ROTE learning. Lounge room now the packing room.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Apr 25, 2012, 2:55 AM
Post #19 of 33 (2341 views)
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Re: [strife] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

 I've trained all my students from jump number 1 to pack, if they hung around. Since I was Instructor, JM and main student canopy packer, it made sense to show them how to do things one step at a time...first laying out the canopy, then the line check, then setting brakes, then flaking the canopy. etc etc. Small, easy steps that took no extra time....

It really helped speed up my packing for the next load...

Once I was happy that they knew how to pack, they were allowed to jump only their own, (or my) pack job.

I always had a couple of old U/S canopies and harnesses lying around that they could practise on.

For their A licence I would tangle the old canopy up real good and they had to untangle and pack it all on their own, with unlimited time to do so. It was hated, but everybody loved it when they passed, and everyone could untangle and pack anything with complete confidence.....

I also taught them how to disconnect and reconnect the main, and also how to do a prejump inspection of a rig, and a proper pincheck before loading the aircraft. also stressed the importance of routines and what to particularly watch out for, both during packing. and kitting up.

They also had to learn to spot.

It was all just part of the job of teaching skydivers how to look after themselves and others. I wanted a bunch of self reliant people around me ASAP, because I was too busy to nursemaid everyone, and wanted my main focus to be on the noobs....

To me, proper packing skills is something that should be a standard requirement for anyone who obtains an A licence, anywhere.

When we had paid packers for the tandems, the TM's insisted that all packers had to pass that packing test if they hadn't already come through my training course...

And once they'd passed, they LOVED watching the next A licence candidate swearing, cursing and scratching their heads.


(This post was edited by obelixtim on Apr 25, 2012, 4:23 AM)


DougH  (D License)

Apr 25, 2012, 5:40 AM
Post #20 of 33 (2292 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've trained all my students from jump number 1 to pack, if they hung around. Since I was Instructor, JM and main student canopy packer, it made sense to show them how to do things one step at a time...first laying out the canopy, then the line check, then setting brakes, then flaking the canopy. etc etc. Small, easy steps that took no extra time....

It really helped speed up my packing for the next load...

Once I was happy that they knew how to pack, they were allowed to jump only their own, (or my) pack job.

I always had a couple of old U/S canopies and harnesses lying around that they could practise on.

For their A licence I would tangle the old canopy up real good and they had to untangle and pack it all on their own, with unlimited time to do so. It was hated, but everybody loved it when they passed, and everyone could untangle and pack anything with complete confidence.....

I also taught them how to disconnect and reconnect the main, and also how to do a prejump inspection of a rig, and a proper pincheck before loading the aircraft. also stressed the importance of routines and what to particularly watch out for, both during packing. and kitting up.

They also had to learn to spot.

It was all just part of the job of teaching skydivers how to look after themselves and others. I wanted a bunch of self reliant people around me ASAP, because I was too busy to nursemaid everyone, and wanted my main focus to be on the noobs....

To me, proper packing skills is something that should be a standard requirement for anyone who obtains an A licence, anywhere.

When we had paid packers for the tandems, the TM's insisted that all packers had to pass that packing test if they hadn't already come through my training course...

And once they'd passed, they LOVED watching the next A licence candidate swearing, cursing and scratching their heads.

We need more instructors willing to put in that amount of time and effort. A+ in my book!


mircan  (D 32291)

Apr 25, 2012, 5:51 AM
Post #21 of 33 (2287 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No, I did not.
I'd charge people for that. Free things seem to have no value.

I`m with you on that. It seems that most of the people pay more attention when paying for something, than when it`s free.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Apr 25, 2012, 5:57 AM
Post #22 of 33 (2282 views)
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Re: [DougH] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

 In fact it did not take a lot of extra time and effort. When packing its easy to explain it as I do each bit.

I think it actually saved me a lot of time, as in packing during the day, and in time not spent dealing with incidents that might of resulted from a lack of understanding normal safe practices....

As they say: "an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure"....


obelixtim  (D 84)

Apr 25, 2012, 6:01 AM
Post #23 of 33 (2279 views)
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Re: [mircan] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
No, I did not.
I'd charge people for that. Free things seem to have no value.

I`m with you on that. It seems that most of the people pay more attention when paying for something, than when it`s free.

NOT when you make them jump their own pack job!!!!.


mircan  (D 32291)

Apr 25, 2012, 6:08 AM
Post #24 of 33 (2271 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I`m with you on that. It seems that most of the people pay more attention when paying for something, than when it`s free.

NOT when you make them jump their own pack job!!!!.

Oh, you are right. Forgot about that one.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Apr 25, 2012, 6:35 AM
Post #25 of 33 (2255 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
No, I did not.
I'd charge people for that. Free things seem to have no value.

I`m with you on that. It seems that most of the people pay more attention when paying for something, than when it`s free.

NOT when you make them jump their own pack job!!!!.
I've seen rookies struggling with new canopies.....but still pay no attention.


firematic47

Apr 25, 2012, 7:48 AM
Post #26 of 33 (574 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, lots of good info guys thank you for letting me know. My ground school is scheduled for the end of the month :) im pretty excited and nervous at the same time


fcajump  (D 15598)

Apr 25, 2012, 10:00 AM
Post #27 of 33 (557 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

Not me, but it will depend greatly on the people around and the nature of the DZ.

I can see great value to a packing class if it is run well.

I see great value to getting training/experience from instructors/riggers/packers at your local club.

I think the best might be found at a class being offered (optional) at a DZ where you can learn for free as people have time to assist you... The instructor has insentive to be focused on just teaching (not between jumps, not while teaching other things) and (s)he will know that, since you paid for it you expect to get your money's worth...

A manditory (paid) class may not be that focused on getting you your monies worth as much as just checking off the box.

Personally - when I've got time, I don't mind helping teach/give pointers... even 1/2 taught a packer I had hired to pack my own main (he was new, my back was sore and I still wanted to jump).

JW


virgin-burner

Apr 25, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #28 of 33 (532 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

it was part of my AFF, so i probably paid for it one way or another. once i finished up AFF, i was cleared to pack unsupervised..


Birdguy  (B 6555)

Apr 25, 2012, 2:05 PM
Post #29 of 33 (524 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

A packing endorsement is required by the CSPA in order to get your "A" Licence in Canada. At my home DZ they offer a Packing Course that cost about 60-65 dollars. It involves doing 10 supervised Pack Jobs with a "Mess test "on the 11th unsupervised. Supervised packs have 5 check points where a RA,JM,SSI or C2 must check before moving on to the next step.
Alot of People take the course as they will be packers for the DZ and earn money for jumping.


JENNR8R  (D 29001)

Apr 25, 2012, 2:48 PM
Post #30 of 33 (512 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Apr 25, 2012, 9:47 PM
Post #31 of 33 (466 views)
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Re: [Morrison79] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It costs me a few cases of beer.

Same here, just cost me beer. Wink


dragon2  (D 101989)

Apr 26, 2012, 9:06 AM
Post #32 of 33 (414 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

Over here it's 25 euro for a packing class if you're not a member (AFF students are automatic members the year of their FJC). Packing courses are free if you're a member.
The packing class is a half-day supervised show-and-tell type of deal + some supervised packjobs.

If you just need a checkpoint check later on, that's always free. As is the mess test to get signed off.


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 3, 2012, 4:27 PM
Post #33 of 33 (324 views)
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Re: [firematic47] anyone pay for packing class during A license training [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I went at it backasswards. I learned how to pack to pay for my freefall course. Trying to get the course done and packing rental rigs 2 minutes after landing while jacked up on adrenaline didn't work great though. Packed 2 locked up break "malfunctions" while doing it. Missed the ring on the daisy chain and the toggles wouldn't unstow. Dude chopped it twice. Probably not worthy of a chop but I sure felt like an asshole watching him land under reserve twice that weekend because I made the same mistake. Had a lot of beers in his trailer that weekend...

Probably a lot different at a small dropzone since every student is a potential staff member coming down the pipe, and was worth a bit of a push start in learning how to do these things.



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