Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ??

 


hhhyyrt

Mar 6, 2012, 3:58 AM
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katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? Can't Post

my dads trying to decide on weather to get a katana 120 or a crossfire 2 119 he wants the canopy for hp landings. hes 42 yrs of age and has a few old injurys and doesnt want to run the landings out as hes a bit of a bad back. he likes his crossfire 139 because he only has to take a couple of steps in nill wind days at the end of his flair he is worried that he will have to run it out on the katana 120 because he has heard that the katanas bottom end flair isnt as good as the crossfire. can any body that owns a katana 120 please comment on my post his WL would be 1.8


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 6, 2012, 4:42 AM
Post #2 of 57 (3683 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
hes 42 yrs of age and has a few old injurys and doesnt want to run the landings out as hes a bit of a bad back.

In that case, he should avoid a 120 anything, and really not get involved in HP landings. Unless you're VERY good at it, it's almost impossible to avoid running, sliding across the ground, ot taking some lumps and bumps when you push a canopies performance toward the upper end.


DaVinciflies

Mar 6, 2012, 5:12 AM
Post #3 of 57 (3668 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
he wants the canopy for hp landings.
In reply to:
hes 42 yrs of age and has a few old injurys and doesnt want to run the landings out as hes a bit of a bad back.
In reply to:
his WL would be 1.8

These things don't add up. I think there is some misunderstanding going on somewhere here. If he wants to jump these canopies in low/nil or downwind conditions there will be some running/sliding involved.

I load my Katana 120 at 1.75.


piisfish

Mar 6, 2012, 5:16 AM
Post #4 of 57 (3660 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
These things don't add up.
I don't generally think like DaVinci, but he is very correct on that one.
Maybe he should go with a 139 Safire2. Or bigger.
Or hit the pond, so he doesn't have to run.Angelic


Fast  (D 28237)

Mar 6, 2012, 8:54 AM
Post #5 of 57 (3600 views)
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Re: [davelepka] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
hes 42 yrs of age and has a few old injurys and doesnt want to run the landings out as hes a bit of a bad back.

In that case, he should avoid a 120 anything, and really not get involved in HP landings. Unless you're VERY good at it, it's almost impossible to avoid running, sliding across the ground, ot taking some lumps and bumps when you push a canopies performance toward the upper end.

Agreed


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Mar 6, 2012, 9:02 AM
Post #6 of 57 (3591 views)
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Re: [Fast] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

for that matter, these two canopies have very different design and performance goals, narrowing it down to those two seems to mean he doesn't yet know what type of flight and landings he's really looking for yet

A lot more thought is needed on his selection still

actually,,,,,it sounds like he likes his current wing just fine

nothing's wrong with a 1.5-1.6 loading. nothing at all.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Mar 6, 2012, 9:05 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 6, 2012, 10:59 AM
Post #7 of 57 (3553 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Both are good canopies. The Safire will get him back a little better from bad spots (reduction in off-field landiings.) He will have to run out both. I load my Crossfire2 at about 1.9 to 1 and I have to either run or slide landings in no wind. It takes 8-10kts of wind before I can "walk it out."

>he likes his crossfire 139 because he only has to take a couple of steps in nill wind
>days at the end of his flair

Sounds like a Crossfire2 139 is a very good choice for him, then.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Mar 6, 2012, 1:01 PM
Post #8 of 57 (3524 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
at the end of his flair

it's like a flare, but with more attitude

or at least buttons


hhhyyrt

Mar 6, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #9 of 57 (3501 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

can u please tellme what the two diferent preformance goals are, there both ment for turf surfing. even in light downwinders he doesnt have to run too hard.


hhhyyrt

Mar 6, 2012, 2:02 PM
Post #10 of 57 (3498 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry i replyed to the wrong post :/


5.samadhi

Mar 6, 2012, 3:33 PM
Post #11 of 57 (3471 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am also curious to hear rehmwa expound on the different performance goals between katana and crossfire2. thought they were both pretty high performance canopies with relatively long recovery arcs designed for swooping.


craigbey  (C 31991)

Mar 6, 2012, 4:57 PM
Post #12 of 57 (3448 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
my dads trying to decide on weather to get a katana 120 or a crossfire 2 119 he wants the canopy for hp landings. hes 42 yrs of age and has a few old injurys and doesnt want to run the landings out as hes a bit of a bad back.

That's just crazy talk! 42 is too old to even think about HP landings.
Wink

Seriously, if your old man really has such concerns, downsizing -- and skipping 1 size in the process -- is not a safe plan.


virgin-burner

Mar 6, 2012, 7:17 PM
Post #13 of 57 (3409 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
he wants the canopy for hp landings.
In reply to:
hes 42 yrs of age and has a few old injurys and doesnt want to run the landings out as hes a bit of a bad back.
In reply to:
his WL would be 1.8

These things don't add up. I think there is some misunderstanding going on somewhere here. If he wants to jump these canopies in low/nil or downwind conditions there will be some running/sliding involved.

I load my Katana 120 at 1.75.

so, how many 100's of jumps did you make since "you learned your lesson" since august last year, DocPop!?


stayhigh  (F 111)

Mar 6, 2012, 7:36 PM
Post #14 of 57 (3395 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Katana has way better bottom end flair vs crossfire.

all canopies slows down to about the same speed.

even if i have to come straight in without any front riser input I much rather fly katana or crossfire vs sabre2 or safire 2.


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 6, 2012, 9:55 PM
Post #15 of 57 (3368 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Im the 42 yo Dad and think that I should clear the running thing up. I dont mind a VERY fast jog. Its running flat out that I want to avoid. I have a Xfire 2 139 WL 1.6 which I enjoy landing in no wind,crosswind. I have had coaching to extend the distance of my turfsurfing but I want a bit more.After reading the comments I think I might be looking at either an Xfire 129 or katana 135.So people what would be the choice out of those two ?


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 6, 2012, 10:03 PM
Post #16 of 57 (3363 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Im leaning toward the katana 135 after reading the comments. I maybe wrong but think PD had some problems with the openings on the 135 and ended up putting a band of mesh running chord wise either side of the slider. Does anyone know someone that has a 135 and know that they are happy with the canopy.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Mar 6, 2012, 11:13 PM
Post #17 of 57 (3342 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Im leaning toward the katana 135 after reading the comments. I maybe wrong but think PD had some problems with the openings on the 135 and ended up putting a band of mesh running chord wise either side of the slider. Does anyone know someone that has a 135 and know that they are happy with the canopy.
Hi Dale, why not throw a weight belt on and UP your WL a little and see how you go with that for a while. It's WAY cheaper than a new canopy.


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 6, 2012, 11:48 PM
Post #18 of 57 (3335 views)
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Re: [Squeak] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice comment, Ill do that with my hop n pops for sure .


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Mar 7, 2012, 8:43 AM
Post #19 of 57 (3255 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am also curious to hear rehmwa expound on the different performance goals between katana and crossfire2. thought they were both pretty high performance canopies with relatively long recovery arcs designed for swooping.

I'm going on various posts from people I respect here. I'm just a hack. But one might talk to a good PD rep and have them explain the diff between the Katana and the Stiletto and why each was designed that way. Lots of searches here too. As I understand it, though, the crossfire is more like a stiletto than a katana. But really experienced guys like AggieD or others will correct me if I'm wrong. (and I'm glad to learn anytime those guys talk).

(I also like to consider the entire flight, including the opening, dynamics in flights, ground hungry vs not, etc etc. not just the last bit of the landing - so maybe this is not the audience that cares on those bits...)

Edit: frankly, I like the recommendation to weighting up on the 139 first. Then I'd just tell him to demo both canopies and decide for himself. Everyone has their own opinions, but in the end, it's up to Dale and his preferences.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Mar 7, 2012, 8:47 AM)


Fast  (D 28237)

Mar 7, 2012, 12:27 PM
Post #20 of 57 (3196 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I am also curious to hear rehmwa expound on the different performance goals between katana and crossfire2. thought they were both pretty high performance canopies with relatively long recovery arcs designed for swooping.

I'm going on various posts from people I respect here. I'm just a hack. But one might talk to a good PD rep and have them explain the diff between the Katana and the Stiletto and why each was designed that way. Lots of searches here too. As I understand it, though, the crossfire is more like a stiletto than a katana. But really experienced guys like AggieD or others will correct me if I'm wrong. (and I'm glad to learn anytime those guys talk).

(I also like to consider the entire flight, including the opening, dynamics in flights, ground hungry vs not, etc etc. not just the last bit of the landing - so maybe this is not the audience that cares on those bits...)

Edit: frankly, I like the recommendation to weighting up on the 139 first. Then I'd just tell him to demo both canopies and decide for himself. Everyone has their own opinions, but in the end, it's up to Dale and his preferences.

I have jumped all these canopies reasonably extensively. I wouldn't really compare a crossfire to a stilleto. The only real comparison is that the crossfire has more of a positive natural recovery than a katana which doesn't really recover that way. But a stilleto is substantially more positive and substantially shorter than a crossfire.

If I was gonna compare a crossfire to anything PD makes it would be the katana, but you're right they are different.


Bryan2  (D 83154)

Mar 7, 2012, 12:56 PM
Post #21 of 57 (3185 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I owned a Katana 135, a Crossfire2 119 and jump now a Katana 120. Wingload 2 to 1 with the 120.

My experience: The flarepower of the Katana is a little better then the Crossfire2. In zero wind conditions I can walk/run out the Katana easily, the Crossfire2 mades me run faster.

The Katana is also a hotter canopy, more dive, longer recovery arc. Openings of the Crossfire2 are absolutly best in class, but I like the Katana 120 openings also. The Katana 135 opens more off-heading on me and I had a reserve ride with the 135. I don't know why, but the Katana 120 opens really better then the 135. They have different sliders, so apparently that is for a reason, but did not solve the "problem" entirely.


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 7, 2012, 4:13 PM
Post #22 of 57 (3131 views)
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Re: [Bryan2] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for your comment, you especially and other people have been very helpfull. I now know what I have to do to make a good decision. I will ask to jump a mates xfire 119 and if thats fine,no and cross wind, I know the katana will be better.My DZ is at sea level so Im quietly confident that the katana 120 will be my choice.If I have to go bigger well maybe the xfire 129. Can you tell me what it is that is not quite sorted out with the 135s openings.


DaVinciflies

Mar 7, 2012, 5:05 PM
Post #23 of 57 (3119 views)
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Re: [Bryan2] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't know why, but the Katana 120 opens really better then the 135.

That was my experience, too, and that of a couple of friends.

Had some funky off heading openings with the 135. Never hard, in fact it was almost the opposite - it was like they took so long to inflate that any asymmetry could lead to significant yaw and a dive/turn.

The story I heard was that during development the larger sizes didn't scale up to well and they tried 20 or more slider solutions to sort the openings out before arriving at the semi-mesh slider. PD released sizes up to and including the 120 initially and then added on 135, 150 and 170 at a later date, IIRC.

Of course, others will say body position!! Cool


virgin-burner

Mar 7, 2012, 8:48 PM
Post #24 of 57 (3088 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

but you're still DocPop, right!?


5.samadhi

Mar 8, 2012, 9:55 AM
Post #25 of 57 (3014 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for your comment, you especially and other people have been very helpfull. I now know what I have to do to make a good decision. I will ask to jump a mates xfire 119 and if thats fine,no and cross wind, I know the katana will be better.My DZ is at sea level so Im quietly confident that the katana 120 will be my choice.If I have to go bigger well maybe the xfire 129. Can you tell me what it is that is not quite sorted out with the 135s openings.

hey dale why are you taking 20 square feet off your current canopy size and going to a 119 when there is an intermediate step made by icarus you could take (129)? Just curious to your thinking, not chastising you or anything I sincerely am just curious how you decided to drop 20 square feet at a time.


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 8, 2012, 2:55 PM
Post #26 of 57 (1690 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
but you're still DocPop, right!?

What's up, VB?

You got a crush on me or what? Laugh


virgin-burner

Mar 8, 2012, 3:31 PM
Post #27 of 57 (1680 views)
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Re: [DocPop] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

nope, sorry to disappoint you, just find it funny you're hiding behind another username, that's all! Wink


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 8, 2012, 4:49 PM
Post #28 of 57 (1666 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Its fine 5.samadhi hope this eleviates your curiosity.If I were on a 129, I would not make the same decison to drop 20sqft. My DZCI and DZSO are fine with it and have read in the Parachute and it's Piot by Brian Germain that it's acceptable and Im comfortable with the idea. I have a 42 year old brain( so I realise Im only water proof not bullet proof ) and my style of HP landing is a carving turn. If I were getting stuck deep in the corner on the odd occasion, I would not be making the decision to drop 20 sqft. I see myself as a safe predictable pilot as does evreyone else at my DZ.Finally I want the biggest turf surfs that I can get safely.I will be test jumping a xfire 119 first and if I can get my hands on a demo katana 120 ( I wont hold my breath being in Australia but Im about 10 months off ordering so we will see ).Like I said earlier, if I have to run too hard then a 129 or 135 will bee my choice.


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 8, 2012, 7:25 PM
Post #29 of 57 (1647 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

@ 5.samadhi PS, When I say getting the biggest turf surf safely, I mean at my skill level. Thought I better clear that one up before all the comments start. Again thanks everyone for your imput. Im off to buy some lead !


nigel99  (D 1)

Mar 8, 2012, 8:48 PM
Post #30 of 57 (1632 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
@ 5.samadhi PS, When I say getting the biggest turf surf safely, I mean at my skill level. Thought I better clear that one up before all the comments start. Again thanks everyone for your imput. Im off to buy some lead !

Katana's and Crossfires are pretty HP. I don't know where in Oz you are, but I find the winds make landing my 170 'feel' like I am back on a C9!

Most people believe that a fully elliptical canopy should only be jumped with more than 500 jumps. So going into that territory early is not 'conservative'. You haven't posted jump numbers so I am assuming you haven't made the grade for E or F licenses yet. Sorry if that is wrong.


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 9, 2012, 1:15 AM
Post #31 of 57 (1614 views)
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Re: [nigel99] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

@ nigel99, Im not sure what you mean by your comment on the winds and a C9 ( if its something about landings being more difficult get some coaching. Hell get some more coaching anyway,getting swoop tuition best thing Ive done.) The 500 jumps thing is a guide.I will say one thing and thats that I am glad that I jumped a stiletto for a while before getting a xfire. I didnt say that a crossfires or katanas were conservative. I dont enjoy flying conservative canopies and thats why I jump a xfire 139. Let me put the (safely comment) another way. Getting the biggest turf with an apropriate wing loading for my ability.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 9, 2012, 4:20 AM
Post #32 of 57 (1596 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The 500 jumps thing is a guide.

When you say it that way, it makes it sound like you don't have 500 jumps yet, is that the case?

Even if you're right at 500 jumps, that's still a very low number for an x-fire or Katana loaded at 1.8, that would be something more appropriate for a jumper with 800 or 1000 jumps.

If you are in the (or below) 500 jump range, those canopies, that WL, skilpping sizes all while not being a fan of 'running' and having back problems are all that much worse. You're playing a dangerous game that's not likely to end well.


nolan358  (Student)

Mar 9, 2012, 7:04 AM
Post #33 of 57 (1564 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


Well at least it's not the JFX this time


skyshimas  (D 29263)

Mar 9, 2012, 1:14 PM
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Forgetting all should you shouldn't you..
I owned xf2 139 and xf2 119 and have hundreds of jumps on them. I can say with certainty that I love xf2. Everything about it: worry free openings, nice riser pressure that gives you a good feed back in a dive, swooping capabilities, long spots not a problem, good flare, all in all sexyness.
At the same time I new I wanted to be on Velo one day because it was the baddest wing on the market. Heard people saying katana route is best if you want to be on velo and xf if on vx. So I borrowed my friends katana 120 and also demoed same size. It felt very aggressive but what I call 'dumb aggressiveness' always tried to twist up on openings, riser pressure was wussy light, no feedback in a dive, long spot worries, and actually didn't enjoy the flare too much either. Maybe I was biased towards it since I had hundreds of jumps on xf's already but I am all up for them and transition to velo if you elect to take this route someday is not difficult.
Hope this helps a bit.


nigel99  (D 1)

Mar 9, 2012, 2:21 PM
Post #35 of 57 (1515 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
@ nigel99, Im not sure what you mean by your comment on the winds and a C9

No a C9 is a round canopy (I used to jump long ago). The steady winds here in Perth make landing a Sabre 170 descent more vertical than forward. Previously I had sworn that I would never downsize below 170, the change to a sea-level dz with constant winds is making me think twice.

Regardless, have fun I and keep safe.


5.samadhi

Mar 9, 2012, 6:09 PM
Post #36 of 57 (1487 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Its fine 5.samadhi hope this eleviates your curiosity.If I were on a 129, I would not make the same decison to drop 20sqft. My DZCI and DZSO are fine with it and have read in the Parachute and it's Piot by Brian Germain that it's acceptable and Im comfortable with the idea. I have a 42 year old brain( so I realise Im only water proof not bullet proof ) and my style of HP landing is a carving turn. If I were getting stuck deep in the corner on the odd occasion, I would not be making the decision to drop 20 sqft. I see myself as a safe predictable pilot as does evreyone else at my DZ.Finally I want the biggest turf surfs that I can get safely.I will be test jumping a xfire 119 first and if I can get my hands on a demo katana 120 ( I wont hold my breath being in Australia but Im about 10 months off ordering so we will see ).Like I said earlier, if I have to run too hard then a 129 or 135 will bee my choice.

ok so just so I be clear about my question, why again are you dropping to a 119 then without jumping a 129 for a season? Why are you set on rushing the transition and taking two steps down in canopy size? It just doesnt make sense to me that you would want to make that big of a jump down.

Sorry if my tone is not coming across, I'm not trying to be condescending to you, I'm just trying to understand you're thinking (no inflammatory/disrespectful talk here I hope thats clear).

others: Am I being too prudent here???


stayhigh  (F 111)

Mar 9, 2012, 9:10 PM
Post #37 of 57 (1459 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

you only have like 100 something jumps, jump 500 more and see if downsizing 20 sq is big deal.


3331  (D 3331)

Mar 9, 2012, 9:13 PM
Post #38 of 57 (1457 views)
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Re: [hhhyyrt] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

What you Dad should look at is the Firebolt. http://jumpshack.com/

Soft openings and easy landings. It's the best all around main canopy I've ever jumped.
And it will get you back from a bad spot.

Cool


5.samadhi

Mar 10, 2012, 4:38 AM
Post #39 of 57 (1441 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
you only have like 100 something jumps, jump 500 more and see if downsizing 20 sq is big deal.

so you're saying somebody going from a 139 to a 129 instead of a 119 is being too prudent and shouldnt worry that much about the downsize?

I think you are wrong, but OK I'll see if I change when I get 500 more jumps. I do not think I will though! :)

why rush a progression when you can stretch it out and maximize learning at each stage?


DaVinciflies

Mar 10, 2012, 2:18 PM
Post #40 of 57 (1407 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
you only have like 100 something jumps, jump 500 more and see if downsizing 20 sq is big deal.

so you're saying somebody going from a 139 to a 129 instead of a 119 is being too prudent and shouldnt worry that much about the downsize?
........
why rush a progression when you can stretch it out and maximize learning at each stage?

Why then are you planning a 30 sq ft downsize (from a 150 to a 120 according to your profile) if you have a cutaway on your next jump?

That's a much more serious downsize for a number of reasons.


(This post was edited by DaVinciflies on Mar 10, 2012, 2:19 PM)


craigbey  (C 31991)

Mar 10, 2012, 5:34 PM
Post #41 of 57 (1392 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4286438#4286438

Quote:
If people are forced to slow down, they will have more time to master all aspects of their canopy flight on one canopy, rather than downsizing for more performance while never taking the time to truly learn all aspects of a canopy. It takes a bunch of jumps to really master a canopy - something that many people in a desperate rush for more performance never learn how to do.

That's how you get people with a thousand jumps on a fast canopy scared to land off, scared to do braked approaches, scared to land any way but into the wind.. Take the time to truly learn.


5.samadhi

Mar 11, 2012, 7:32 AM
Post #42 of 57 (1341 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
you only have like 100 something jumps, jump 500 more and see if downsizing 20 sq is big deal.

so you're saying somebody going from a 139 to a 129 instead of a 119 is being too prudent and shouldnt worry that much about the downsize?
........
why rush a progression when you can stretch it out and maximize learning at each stage?

Why then are you planning a 30 sq ft downsize (from a 150 to a 120 according to your profile) if you have a cutaway on your next jump?

That's a much more serious downsize for a number of reasons.
because I have jumped 120 7 cells (albeit mains not reserves) for about 60 jumps and feel comfortable on them :) So your argument is not sound because the premise is false leading to a false conclusion.


(This post was edited by 5.samadhi on Mar 11, 2012, 7:33 AM)


DaVinciflies

Mar 11, 2012, 8:35 AM
Post #43 of 57 (1324 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
because I have jumped 120 7 cells (albeit mains not reserves) for about 60 jumps and feel comfortable on them :) So your argument is not sound because the premise is false leading to a false conclusion.

My argument that you will instantly downsize from a 150 to a 120 is exactly right according to your profile. Give me a good reason to fly a smaller reserve than your main. One good reason. That's all I ask.

I'd say your judgement is demonstrably fucked up and your assertions in this thread are therefore best ignored.

Well played.


(This post was edited by DaVinciflies on Mar 11, 2012, 8:40 AM)


5.samadhi

Mar 12, 2012, 2:34 PM
Post #44 of 57 (1244 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
because I have jumped 120 7 cells (albeit mains not reserves) for about 60 jumps and feel comfortable on them :) So your argument is not sound because the premise is false leading to a false conclusion.

My argument that you will instantly downsize from a 150 to a 120 is exactly right according to your profile. Give me a good reason to fly a smaller reserve than your main. One good reason. That's all I ask.

I'd say your judgement is demonstrably fucked up and your assertions in this thread are therefore best ignored.

Well played.

haha harsh man, well played indeed Wink

good vibes all around Tongue


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 15, 2012, 6:15 PM
Post #45 of 57 (1167 views)
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Re: [craigbey] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll make just one more post as I have the info I need.Do you really think that because I choose to drop 20 sqft that I will now be to scared to land in brakes,on rears, off DZ crosswind or downwind? I may choose to slide a downwinder in on my ass with a 120 or 119 but I doesnt make it scary. If I went the Katana route, Im thinking you would most likely suggest a 135 before the 120. Your right DiVinciflies I should have just ignored the post but I have written a comment and cant delete it.


(This post was edited by daleskydive on Mar 15, 2012, 6:33 PM)


daleskydive  (E License)

Mar 15, 2012, 6:56 PM
Post #46 of 57 (1150 views)
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Re: [nolan358] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well nolan358, I hope you feel big. You have just shown your true character for everyone to see. If you were an instructor, you would be the guy to berate a student in front of everyone for a mistake instead of quietly taking them aside so they didnt feel embarassed. I would rather feel a bit silly than do what you have just done. Congratulations


daleskydive  (E License)

May 22, 2012, 9:50 AM
Post #47 of 57 (936 views)
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Re: [Squeak] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tried jumping with 15 to 18 lbs of lead but was tweaking my back and knees didnt like it so I ended up with a katana 120 and will hopefully go to a VX in about 400 jumps if my mentor reckons Im OK . I love my mentor, he said bite of more than you can chew and chew like f..k. All depends on how bad my arthritis gets in the mean time. If I have to upsize so be it. MY WL 1.8. Thanks for the advice, pitty it didnt work out with the lead


daleskydive  (E License)

May 22, 2012, 10:03 AM
Post #48 of 57 (924 views)
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Re: [Fast] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi I have owned a couple of xfires and they are nothing like a stiletto. Have gone for a katana 120 as adding lead to my xfire just tweaked my knees and back. As long as Im not running flat out I should be sweet WL 1.8


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 22, 2012, 10:16 AM
Post #49 of 57 (911 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I ended up with a katana 120

MY WL 1.8.

All depends on how bad my arthritis gets

Of course

Quote:
he said bite of more than you can chew and chew like f..k.

I would ask why you think this is good advice, considering your age, experience, and physical limitations, but I'm sure it's a waste of my time.


Scrumpot  (D License)

May 22, 2012, 10:33 AM
Post #50 of 57 (895 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

So, May 1, you say:
Quote:
I have already said Im sticking with the 139 for another couple of 100 jumps.

(Ref: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4311937;page=unread#unread

Now, just 2 short weekend's later, THIS? You really are a "piece of work", aren't you? - Seriously. ...And you get offended when ANYONE really says ANYTHING at all (or even really tries) to you. Crazy

Your "game" on here, whatever it is - is truly, tiresome. Honestly not looking forward to seeing your "Sangi-esque" scheme unfold. But whatever. You're an adult right? Please just don't either take out, or hurt anyone else with your endeavors is all.


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on May 22, 2012, 1:10 PM)


craigbey  (C 31991)

May 22, 2012, 8:15 PM
Post #51 of 57 (775 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
hopefully go to a VX in about 400 jumps

Why? What about the VX makes it THE next canopy for you?


daleskydive  (E License)

May 24, 2012, 8:57 PM
Post #52 of 57 (678 views)
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Re: [piisfish] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Saw your and just wanted to say that I have ha two saffire 2s and they flare like shit compared to a xfire. I am not bagging you . The stronger the flare the easier it is to land and time the flare to end up at the slowest possible speed at the end of the flare.


Waldschrat

May 24, 2012, 9:40 PM
Post #53 of 57 (667 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Saw your and just wanted to say that I have ha two saffire 2s and they flare like shit compared to a xfire. I am not bagging you . The stronger the flare the easier it is to land and time the flare to end up at the slowest possible speed at the end of the flare.

Yeah thats because the xfire is elliptical. 1,8 WL? That is brave.....


(This post was edited by Waldschrat on May 24, 2012, 9:43 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 25, 2012, 11:18 AM
Post #54 of 57 (593 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Saw your and just wanted to say that I have ha two saffire 2s and they
>flare like shit compared to a xfire.

I've flown both quite a bit, and neither flares like shit. If you aren't getting a good flare out of an appropriately loaded Safire - get some canopy coaching.


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 25, 2012, 11:33 AM
Post #55 of 57 (585 views)
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Re: [billvon] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If you aren't getting a good flare out of an appropriately loaded Safire - get some canopy coaching.

Back off Bill, he has a mentor advising him. In Dale's own words - "I love my mentor, he said bite of more than you can chew and chew like f..k".


daleskydive  (E License)

Jun 4, 2012, 6:03 AM
Post #56 of 57 (500 views)
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Re: [craigbey] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have had a change of mind. Im flying the katana now and its a lot more full on than I thought it would be. I have heard that Michale Vaughn is running a canopy course for us, so I will jump on that course too and not have a predetmined jump number figure but a skill level to achieve before thinking about another canopy. To tell you the truth the next canopy is not in my mind anymore Im having sooo much fun on the katana..Ohhh and guess what Im not as good as what I thought I was. OK Im ready for bagging session now ! PS Im not a hyporchrit I just change my mind a bit is all


craigbey  (C 31991)

Jun 4, 2012, 5:38 PM
Post #57 of 57 (437 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] katana 120 VS crossfire 2 119 ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
OK Im ready for bagging session now !

Bagging session? That sounds dirty. Can we just talk about canopies?



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