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Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor)

 


43_echo

Mar 4, 2012, 7:49 PM
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Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) Can't Post

This my first post and sorry it had to be about a purchase through the classified ads but want to bring about an awareness so it doesn't happen to you.

I looked at an ad in mid January about a canopy for sale. Ad stated: For Sale Sabre II 170

Price 1,600.00 usd

Canopy is in great condition. No tears and patches. Never wet, always landed on grass and packed indoors. Bought new canopy has 200 jumps.

After a few emails to the seller I purchased the canopy and received it about the 23rd. I opened the box when it arrived but never fully examined the canopy as I was planning on having my local dropzone rigger examine it. I sent him an email and stated that I haven't had it checked out but did appreciate that he kept all the lines on the slinks and I was going to take it to my rigger for the check.

Turns out that I finally had the chance to have someone at the local DZ check the canopy. At first when removing it from the box it looked nice but upon spreading the canopy out it was very visable that the top skin had a stain or UV damage going from the 2nd cell to the center cell. When you opened the nose you could see the color faded from top to inside. The person who inspected the canopy was Don Kellner of Above the Poconos skyding center. He told me to either ask for a refund or at the least get $600.00 back as that was all the canopy was worth.

I contacted the seller who says that I did the damage and when he sent it it was fine! BS! I kept in my walk-in closet and there are no windows and was kept in the box that it was sent to me in. I had a Para-Commander rig from the 70's that was red, white & blue kept in the same closet and never had any discoloration to it.

The seller now has refused to compromise with me so that I can send it to PD to have the needed repairs done or the money back for the canopy.

To think for $600.00 more dollars I could have had a brand new canopy.......

I am posting this so that people here don't make the same mistake as I and if you buy anything......have it sent to your local DZ and inspected before any money changes hands. If the seller refuses then that is the first signal to not buy it. Jude


(This post was edited by 43_echo on Mar 4, 2012, 8:01 PM)


ShcShc11  (A 15638)

Mar 4, 2012, 8:34 PM
Post #2 of 80 (3408 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the post.
Would help people like me in the future Smile


stratostar  (Student)

Mar 4, 2012, 9:01 PM
Post #3 of 80 (3384 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

First let me say that I'm sorry for your problem. However a good deal of blame is on you for not doing a brokered deal with the seller. If your not sure what I'm talking about, it's this.... You should have checked out the seller via their DZO where they claim to jump. Then you should have set the deal up to go through your dzo or rigger, so that after an inspection, IF everything is cool the third party then releases/sends the money to them. Or you could send the money to their DZO on condition that the gear will be inspected and once passing inspection the DZO could release the money.

Any honest person and or DZO or Rigger would be happy to help you and do a deal like that, it covers all parties in most cases. Anyone who won't work with you on a deal like that you need to stay away from.

It also sounds like this canopy might have been jumped in the SW, places like Eloy & Perris will trash a canopy pretty fast when jumped out there and they often look like what your talking about.

You should have never sat on the canopy and waited to inspect it as well, day one you inspect it, I'm pretty sure if you got a PC in storage, you can tell a new canopy with 200 jumps on it from a trashed one.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Mar 4, 2012, 9:05 PM)


stayhigh  (F 111)

Mar 4, 2012, 9:01 PM
Post #4 of 80 (3382 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Needs name of the seller and what dz.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Mar 4, 2012, 9:40 PM
Post #5 of 80 (3356 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Needs name of the seller and what dz.

+1


Squeak  (E 1313)

Mar 5, 2012, 1:12 AM
Post #6 of 80 (3300 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Needs name of the seller and what dz.
+1

why? you have one persons view of the deal and an unknown poster at that.
Far to many people on here seem to like witch hunting.


(This post was edited by Squeak on Mar 5, 2012, 1:12 AM)


43_echo

Mar 5, 2012, 3:38 AM
Post #7 of 80 (3274 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Squeak, I may be a unknown poster here but I think I have had dealings with SereJumper. In fact I think he was the person I sold that Para-Commander I spoke about aprox. 2 years ago?

I could have exposed the person I dealt with here and am a patient person who is still giving this person time to come clean and at least give me the $600.00 back so I can have the canopy fixed.


43_echo

Mar 5, 2012, 3:46 AM
Post #8 of 80 (3266 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

stratorstar, I agree with you and mentioned that in my first post. This is just my bad experience being shared here to maybe help some other person.

Funny you should mention that this sounds like a canopy from the SW! That is exactly what Don said. No it came from the State of Massachuetts.

As I mentioned when I first opened the box the canopy appears to be in a newer condition. It even sounds very crisp. Being it was in a packed state and the lines rigger rolled, the majority looked fine IO felt it was in good condition. I work over 60 hours a week and with the weather we have been having in PA. the DZ for the most part has been closed. I jnow I should have called but the feel and sound of the canopy lead me to believe that the rest of it was in good condition too. I did drive to the DZ on 2 different occasions but no one was there.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Mar 5, 2012, 3:52 AM
Post #9 of 80 (3264 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Squeak, I may be a unknown poster here but I think I have had dealings with SereJumper. In fact I think he was the person I sold that Para-Commander I spoke about aprox. 2 years ago?

I could have exposed the person I dealt with here and am a patient person who is still giving this person time to come clean and at least give me the $600.00 back so I can have the canopy fixed.
My post was never directed towards you nor was it intented for you to be portrayed in a negative way. I was merely highlighting some peoples over zealous nature in burning others at the virtual stake without sufficient "evidence" or information


(This post was edited by Squeak on Mar 5, 2012, 3:53 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 5, 2012, 4:09 AM
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Caveat emptor is all I can say up to this point, but in terms of what to do now, I have a couple ideas.

I would place a call to the sellers home DZ and explain the situation. See if they have any input or ideas, and see if they know who the sellers rigger is. if there was damage to the canopy, there's a chance that the rigger or someone at the DZ would have known about it. If the canopy is as you described, crispy and new except for some localized damage, that would something that a jumper might show people at the DZ looking for input/info.

In terms of that damage, it might have been due to a cutaway and spending some time 'lost' and sitting in the sun. If just one part of the canopy was exposed to the sun for a couple days, that's the damage that would occur. Again, the rigger might have a record of an 'unscheduled' repack, and the DZ might remember spending some time looking for a cutaway main.

Beyond that, I would stay on the seller to make good. Maybe agree to split the cost of an inspection at PD where they can give you a hard price for the repairs, and then you can proceed from there, at least you would know where you stand.

If they guy wants to stonewall you, post up his name, user name and location. Again, you might find that someone out there knows the guy and the canopy and might be able to back up your story that there's something wrong with the canopy.

A note to others - PD is an awesome company who is really easy to work with. If you're looking to buy a used PD canopy, have the seller ship it to PD for an inspection and have them copy you on all the emails between them and PD. Once the canopy passes, you can pay the seller, and they can inform PD to ship the canopy to you. Nice and easy.


Ron

Mar 5, 2012, 6:29 AM
Post #11 of 80 (3176 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Dave gave you the best advice.....

Do brokered deals unless you personally know the person or can see the item before money changes hands.

That being said, I would offer the seller to cancel the deal and him refund your money. If he refuses, I would post his name.


43_echo

Mar 5, 2012, 7:31 AM
Post #12 of 80 (3107 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In reply to:
Caveat emptor is all I can say up to this point, but in terms of what to do now, I have a couple ideas.

I would place a call to the sellers home DZ and explain the situation. See if they have any input or ideas, and see if they know who the sellers rigger is. if there was damage to the canopy, there's a chance that the rigger or someone at the DZ would have known about it. If the canopy is as you described, crispy and new except for some localized damage, that would something that a jumper might show people at the DZ looking for input/info.

In terms of that damage, it might have been due to a cutaway and spending some time 'lost' and sitting in the sun. If just one part of the canopy was exposed to the sun for a couple days, that's the damage that would occur. Again, the rigger might have a record of an 'unscheduled' repack, and the DZ might remember spending some time looking for a cutaway main.

Beyond that, I would stay on the seller to make good. Maybe agree to split the cost of an inspection at PD where they can give you a hard price for the repairs, and then you can proceed from there, at least you would know where you stand.

If they guy wants to stonewall you, post up his name, user name and location. Again, you might find that someone out there knows the guy and the canopy and might be able to back up your story that there's something wrong with the canopy.

A note to others - PD is an awesome company who is really easy to work with. If you're looking to buy a used PD canopy, have the seller ship it to PD for an inspection and have them copy you on all the emails between them and PD. Once the canopy passes, you can pay the seller, and they can inform PD to ship the canopy to you. Nice and easy.

Dave, It was also said to me that it may also be damage from a cutaway and was hanging in a tree for awhile. I mentioned that to him and the seller balked at that, saying it was never cut away.

On a side note he had a facebook page and now I see it is down! Hmmm


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Mar 5, 2012, 8:03 AM
Post #13 of 80 (3070 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

What was the duration of time between shipping acceptance and rigger inspection?


In other words, how long did it sit in the closet until you had it inspected?


(This post was edited by BIGUN on Mar 5, 2012, 8:03 AM)


43_echo

Mar 5, 2012, 8:12 AM
Post #14 of 80 (3054 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

It was delivered January 23, 2012 and had it inspected March 4, 2012.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Mar 5, 2012, 8:36 AM
Post #15 of 80 (3024 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It was delivered January 23, 2012 and had it inspected March 4, 2012.

Absent of anything written - The reasonable time to inspect is usually two weeks.

The buyer didn't technically even have to address your allegations. All s/he had to do was say, "You had more than a reasonable amount of time to inspect the gear. When I didn't hear from you after two weeks, I was left with the assumption that you had accepted the gear."

In this case, had you had it inspected the week it was received and told the same story...

This is why stuff needs to be written out before any money exchanges hands. Courts are filled with contracts that are pages long. To think that not writing anything down is going to result in an amicable transaction given our now community of 30,000+ is a mistake. Both sides can have the best of intentions, it's now a matter of which side is more wrong.


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Mar 5, 2012, 8:48 AM
Post #16 of 80 (3005 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It was delivered January 23, 2012 and had it inspected March 4, 2012.

Wow, as a seller I would be very hard pressed to find that period of time reasonable. I usually stipulate a 7 calendar day period that starts the day the product is received.

Since we haven't heard from the seller I want to mention that I very much agree with the possibility that davelepka presented - a cutaway resulting in a sunfade spot. I am also attaching a few pics of an all-blackberry canopy that had under 30 jumps when was cutaway and left in the tree for a few weeks.

Unfortunately in the almost 6 weeks time lots of things could have happened (all these are hypotheticals) - a cat could have peed on the canopy and that too can result in an uneven fade spot, as can leaving the canopy unpacked in your sunroom.

Since this is brought out in public, it would be super interesting to hear from the seller, as every story has at least two sides.
Attachments: IMG_8239.JPG (119 KB)
  IMG_8242.JPG (154 KB)


43_echo

Mar 5, 2012, 9:08 AM
Post #17 of 80 (2989 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

I know you can only hear one side of the story but I didn't even receive the container I ordered for this canopy as of yet. I was a Military rigger and know about UV effecting nylon. It was store in a dark walk-in closet 10' X 12' with no windows and sealed in the 10" cube box he shipped it in. Being he knew about the damage and sold it that way is wrong. I don't care what anyone says. He knew it was damaged but sold it as almost new. It was never in any sumlight as I first looked at it at work in my back office which again has no windows and then yesterday laid out on the packing mat. Basically even though I had to wait to have it looked at, it still was sold to me under the wrong impression.

Now being his facebook site is removed, that tells me he is covering his tracks. But that again is my problem and I do have an attorney in the family. Selling gear to use in skydiving that may be flawed is very low. Then not disclosing it......I sent him my last email stating that I wanted a refund and that I would hand the canopy over to my local DZ and as soon as they receive the money I paid, they will send him the canopy back. If I don't hear from him I will post his info.


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 5, 2012, 9:34 AM
Post #18 of 80 (2960 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Basically even though I had to wait to have it looked at...I was a Military rigger and know about UV effecting nylon.

In reply to:

I know hindsight is 20/20, but you were a rigger & know about material degradation, ya 'should' have been on that thing the day it arrived.

I had a brand new reverve hung up and went over it with a flashlight & a magnifying glass the day it arrived, if there would have been a problem it looks better if you say:

'It arrived this morning ~ I just pulled this P.O.S. outta the box and...'


Just wondering...if it's on the top-skin only...and he used a packer exclusively....maybe he didn't know it was discolored? Wink

I mean, I know guys that don't know what color their pilot-chute is! Crazy


43_echo

Mar 5, 2012, 9:42 AM
Post #19 of 80 (2950 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, I see he has now removed his personal info from this site.

The guy who sold this to me was kdrivas1989.


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Mar 5, 2012, 9:56 AM
Post #20 of 80 (2926 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

googling his username reveals this : http://www.justguys.net/kdrivas1989

ha !


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 5, 2012, 9:56 AM
Post #21 of 80 (2925 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Re: kdrivas1989

You may need to say more about who it was (or apparently was). That handle does show up on google in the email address of a skydiving jumpsuit dealer, complete with name and location. One wouldn't want to accuse the wrong person.


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 5, 2012, 10:04 AM
Post #22 of 80 (2912 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Re: kdrivas1989

You may need to say more about who it was (or apparently was). That handle does show up on google in the email address of a skydiving jumpsuit dealer, complete with name and location. One wouldn't want to accuse the wrong person.

Since the OP stated where it came from, this search leads to who it probably is...

http://www.hookit.com/members/kdrivas1989/


43_echo

Mar 5, 2012, 10:16 AM
Post #23 of 80 (2900 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
googling his username reveals this : http://www.justguys.net/kdrivas1989

ha !

That is the dude! I have his full address too.


(This post was edited by 43_echo on Mar 5, 2012, 10:18 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 5, 2012, 10:21 AM
Post #24 of 80 (2887 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
googling his username reveals this : http://www.justguys.net/kdrivas1989

ha !

That is the dude! I have his full address too.

Bad news is~ 22 year old college student, you money is GONE!

Good news is~ he appears to be a proficient skydiver, competitions etc...your money MAY not be gone once it's explained/understood that this is a rather small community and ya don't wanna be known as a ripper offer if ya want to stay in it Wink


Ron

Mar 6, 2012, 7:39 AM
Post #25 of 80 (2666 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It was delivered January 23, 2012 and had it inspected March 4, 2012.

Ah, that is too long to wait. A lot can happen in a month and the seller can easily think you might have caused the damage.

In the future, YOU inspect it as soon as you open it. And get it to a rigger to inspect it before two weekends have passed.

If during your inspection you find something out of order, email the seller that second (use email that way you have a record) and get it to a rigger to look at ASAP.

After a month.... It is going to be difficult to prove it came that way.


43_echo

Mar 6, 2012, 9:25 AM
Post #26 of 80 (2292 views)
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Re: [Ron] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Being it was stored as received in a 10" cube box, the only UV damage was to the top cells (not all and uneven). As I said before but may have been taken out of text was that I was a rigger in the U.S. Army and know how sunlight can damage nylon. I surely didn't have it laid out as some type of cover or in any sunlight period. It was store as I mentioned before in a walk-in closet in the box.

Yes, I did wait a little more than a month but being I am not a FAA certified rigger and this time of year in the N.E. our skydiving club is usually closed due to winds and other weather.

I am to blame for not making a phone call and maybe try to schedule it to be looked at but then again, if the damage was DISCLOSED before I purchased it I would have made sure that I didn't pay top dollar for a canopy that wasn't worth it and made sure itr was checked out. Looking at it when it first arrived it was placed in a Walmart bag and then in the box. I did remove the canopy from box and bag but being the lines were daisy-chained I really couldn't see the difference in color until it was fully opened up. Here is a picture once it was opened and you can see the UV discoloration.

It is still jumpable and that is not my complaint. It is that I paid much more than it was really worth.


(This post was edited by 43_echo on Mar 6, 2012, 9:26 AM)
Attachments: canopy.jpg (268 KB)


devildog  (C 40302)

Mar 6, 2012, 9:45 AM
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Re: [Ron] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
It was delivered January 23, 2012 and had it inspected March 4, 2012.

Ah, that is too long to wait. A lot can happen in a month and the seller can easily think you might have caused the damage.

In the future, YOU inspect it as soon as you open it. And get it to a rigger to inspect it before two weekends have passed.

If during your inspection you find something out of order, email the seller that second (use email that way you have a record) and get it to a rigger to look at ASAP.

After a month.... It is going to be difficult to prove it came that way.

This was my first gut reaction. Assume that the seller honestly thought it was tip top, and was unaware of the damage, and now 6 weeks later the person he sold it too says, "Hey! This thing is messed up!" it's easy to see how an honest mistake on his part is now being viewed as a buyer trying to rip him off. (not that you are or aren't, but the situation isn't very cut and dry anymore)

just my .02


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 6, 2012, 10:23 AM
Post #28 of 80 (2243 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Is that all supposed to be the same color? What did it start off as, Royal Blue?

If that's the topskin and it's next to the inside of the cells, there's clearly a problem. It looks closer to a faded Navy Blue than anything that started off as Royal.

Given the type of damage, your location, and the time of year, I'd say you have a pretty good case for fraud. That's not a tear or broken seam that you could have caused, even with one jump. That's severe fading that would take a signigficant amount of time to develop, so unless you left it out in the sun for a couple weeks, there's no way you could have caused that damage.

Beyond that, who out there in the great Northeast knows Kevin whats-his-face? Seems like a guy with enough jumps and time in the sport that he's got to have some friends, and some of them have to be on here on DZ.com. Anyone know where he jumps?

If not a friend, anyone know him casually from the DZ? Let's start to circle the wagons and get this guy's attention. This clearly looks like a bad deal, and for the guy to just try and vanish on the buyer is downright shady.


SStewart  (D 10405)

Mar 6, 2012, 10:40 AM
Post #29 of 80 (2227 views)
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Re: [Ron] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

I tend to agree with Ron a months seems like a bit too long to wait to inspect it and complain. I buy and sell lot's of gear on dropzone.com every year and I guarantee everything I sell. I have never had anyone ask for a refund or a return yet but if a buyer was not happy I would certainly take it back. I believe two weeks is plenty enough time to have a rigger look at it or even test jump it.

That said it is not worth my reputation as a seller and a rigger to have an unhappy customer so I would have given the refund anyway. Maybe in the future I will set a time limit for returns so the buyer won't wait a month before having it inspected.


43_echo

Mar 6, 2012, 12:09 PM
Post #30 of 80 (2182 views)
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Re: [SStewart] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Selling something that is not what your claim it to be is fraud. Not disclosing a flaw is fraud. The canopy was never listed with any disclaimer saying "as is". Again, being I am not a FAA licensed rigger, I opened the package to verify that there was a canopy in it and found the Date of Man. tag being the canopy looked as if it was just removed from a D-bag and put into the box. Tag was right in view. Being it was still folded I couldn't see the color variation as compared to the underside skin so the fading wasn't noticeable. The lines were daisy chained and just wanted to keep it that way until it was examined. There was never any indication of flaws. Before I posted here I had made contact with seller to renegociate the price as I was told it was worth about $1,000.00 instead of the $1,600.00 I paid. At first I never asked for a full refund just the $600.00. He denied that it was UV damaged so I then just asked for a refund. He kept asking for pics and I sent him the one posted here and now he just disappeared.


Ron

Mar 6, 2012, 12:43 PM
Post #31 of 80 (2150 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Yes, I did wait a little more than a month but being I am not a FAA certified rigger and this time of year in the N.E. our skydiving club is usually closed due to winds and other weather.

That damage is easy for a layperson to notice and you said you were a rigger in the Service. There is ZERO reason for you to not have really looked at it as soon as it showed up. This is even MORE important if it is going to be awhile till you can get a rigger to look at it.

None of what I am writing is removing the seller from promising "X" and delivering "Y". Nothing. I have already said that you should ask for a refund and if that does not happen out the person.

All I am doing is showing you what you and others need to do in the future.

1. Use a broker
2. Inspect it personally as soon as reasonably possible... 12 hours or less.
3. If there is anything you are unsure or unhappy about, contact that person IMMEDIATELY.
4. Have the item inspected as soon as is reasonably possible.... Two weeks is normal.

But by waiting a month, the money is most likely gone and the seller has a reasonable argument that it was not like that when he sent it out.

He could easily argue that you opened it up in your living room and left it in the corner near the window.

YOU claim it was in perfect storage conditions and it arrived that way, but there is NO WAY to verify that. But if left sitting in the sun for a month, that damage could easily have happened.

HE claims it was perfect when he shipped it, but there is NO WAY to verify that either.

If you had responded within a day of receiving the item, then it would be easy to prove it was not done by you. As it is.... there is no way to prove you are right.

You have done everything you really can at this point... you have contacted him and offered two resolution options (600 bucks back, or negate the deal).... Knowing how most people are living paycheck to paycheck.... I'd bet your money is long since been spent.

So you can try to circle the wagons and get the lynch mod after him.... But I'll play devils advocate here state that we only have your side of the story.

If he had come onto DZ.com and posted, "I sold a guy a PERFECT canopy with 200 jumps on it and now a month later he is claiming that it was damaged and is demanding 600 dollars back! I bet they guy left it in his car and then saw the damage!"

He would have exactly the same *proof* as you. But if you had waited 1 hour instead of one month.... you would have him dead to rights.


43_echo

Mar 6, 2012, 4:28 PM
Post #32 of 80 (2090 views)
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Re: [Ron] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, where is Kevin? About 2 years ago I sold a vintage 1972 Paracommander with a 26' Stong Lopo reserve to (I am almost positive) SEREJumper. It was stored in the same closet as the Sabre II since 1983. That was a chute that I had't jumped in a long time and they both were still airworthy with 0% UV damage. At least there is one person who knows how I take care of equipment.

I hope one would think that I wouldn't store q canopy opened up in direct sunlight to ruin it and then try and get my money back nor want to do that to a canopy I paid $1,600.00 for and planned on jumping it.

I work over 60 hours a week and time sometimes goes by faster than I realize. That is no excuse but for anyone who thinks I would be stupid enough to ruin a canopy is wrong. In fact I just ordered a brand new QuasarII to put this canopy in. The only reason I purchased a used main was that down the road I wanted to down size and felt I could sell it being it was suppose to be in great condition. I should be getting it this week.

Fraud is fraud and personally knowing that I had nothing to do with the condition of this canopy is good enough reason to persue by any means to get a refund. I didn't post this problem here to start a witch hunt but being the seller started to cover his tracks shows me who I was dealing with. When he had his ad running here I looked up his personal info as would any buyer. Now he cleaned it up. I do have some leads and will be persuing them.

From the support I have received in PM's I just want to thank you. I owe you guys one!


stratostar  (Student)

Mar 6, 2012, 4:56 PM
Post #33 of 80 (2075 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Look man,

We all know it's bullshit you got ripped off and burned like that, there is no excuse for that period. Also no one is saying you can't take care of gear.

However, what is being said is here is, FACT: you dropped the ball in many ways on this deal and you need to own up to that fuck up and for the most part you have. But bottom line is you dropped the ball by not using a broker or fully opening up the canopy and doing a full inspection the day that it showed up or drop shipping to your rigger or PD for inspection, a little homework goes a long way. Because in the past other people have been burned on here buying from people they don't know and from states away.

A quick search on here would have shown you there is a lot of good advice on here about buying from DZ.com and people you don't know. I have done transactions on here a number of times and never got burned or burned anyone else, when I buy or sell I check out that person via a call to the dz they claim to jump at for many reasons, one of those being to make sure I'm not selling to someone who has no business jump it.

I'm a rigger, but not being a rigger is no excuse for not doing your own inspection ASAP, more so when you have rigging experience in the past, had you done so this matter may have turned different, however I lean towards the seller being a low life who knew he sold you over priced shit and burned you.

Let this be a lesson to anyone else who is seeking to buy used gear from those they don't know. I hope you find a resolve to this matter, but sadly I think your screwed.


43_echo

Mar 7, 2012, 4:13 AM
Post #34 of 80 (1996 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

stratostar,

Thank you for your reply. My first post on this thread was basically what you said, never pay for anything first - broker a deal. At least go through Paypal with buyer protection.

Looking the way Kevin handled this after I did get it examined, I really don't think it would have turned out any different if I had it inspected the same day I received the canopy. He would have never returned any money for a refund. Yes, broker a deal.

In a way, I actually feel sorry for him. He knows what he pulled.


(This post was edited by 43_echo on Mar 7, 2012, 4:15 AM)


stratostar  (Student)

Mar 7, 2012, 5:09 AM
Post #35 of 80 (1974 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

43 echo,

The most important thing I hope you take away form this is that not all people in this sport are low life scum bags who will rip you off. 90% of the skydiving world are great people, but there is the 10% out there. I hope you are not soured on the sport now and can find resolve and go on to be a happy jumper with nice gear and do your part to pass on the lessons (all of them) that you learn the hard way to the next batch of up and coming jumpers in your neck of the woods, you'll be a better person for it and the sport will be better for it too.

Best of luck to you and always remember to drive fast, take chances and date your rigger wife.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Mar 7, 2012, 5:11 AM)


DougH  (D License)

Mar 7, 2012, 6:16 AM
Post #36 of 80 (1941 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is my take:

I highly doubt a change in the canopy's condition occured between when you received the canopy and when you stored it. It was stored in a closed closet, in a box.

There is obviously a difference in opinion between how the seller views the condition of the canopy and how you and your rigger view the condition of the canopy.

The seller can probably get away with telling you to pound sand, you waited a long time to inspect.

I think it would be best for the seller to return you your money less shipping, and for you to give the seller the canopy back.

If the canopy is really worth 1600 he will be able to sell it for that same amount again, the seller is made whole.

If the canopy is worth less that 1600 he will get what it is worth down the road. You didn't contribute the canopy's current condition.

It just appears to be a much better solution that asking for a partial refund. Just start from scratch for both of you.

I don't think he is trying to screw you, I think he has a completely different understanding of the condition of the canopy. If you were the seller you would be equally suprised.


(This post was edited by DougH on Mar 7, 2012, 6:19 AM)


kdrivas1989  (Student)

Mar 7, 2012, 9:06 AM
Post #37 of 80 (1883 views)
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Re: [DougH] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

As the seller of this canopy...when I sent the canopy to you it was in good condition, you could hook it up on to risers and jump it, there was no discoloration, nor stain. I sent the canopy to you, you received the canopy and thanked me for keeping the lines together. You had the canopy for a month and a week, I had not heard from you, I figured everything was alright and I purchased a new canopy because I was downsizing. I have no way of knowing what you did with the canopy in that month and week, you claim it was in a box, you could have left it out near a window, a cat could have urinated on it etc. etc. I'm sorry you feel this way but I have done nothing wrong. That canopy was in good condition when I shipped it to you. As far as what happened while it was in your possession, I unfortunately can't say.
In reply to:


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 7, 2012, 9:39 AM
Post #38 of 80 (1864 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

As the seller of this canopy...when I sent the canopy to you it was in good condition, you could hook it up on to risers and jump it, there was no discoloration, nor stain. I sent the canopy to you, you received the canopy and thanked me for keeping the lines together. You had the canopy for a month and a week, I had not heard from you, I figured everything was alright and I purchased a new canopy because I was downsizing. I have no way of knowing what you did with the canopy in that month and week, you claim it was in a box, you could have left it out near a window, a cat could have urinated on it etc. etc. I'm sorry you feel this way but I have done nothing wrong. That canopy was in good condition when I shipped it to you. As far as what happened while it was in your possession, I unfortunately can't say.



```````````````````````````````````````````````````

What's your home drop-zone?

Any way the OP can get in touch with your rigger and verify through them that the canopy had no discoloration the last time HE/SHE saw it?

I think with a little detective work it would be pretty easy to PROVE who's pulling a fast one, not saying it's YOU...but don't you kinda wanna show that if you can?

Just sounds a bit fishy that you come on here claiming word for word what people have speculated you would say...IMHO

The Skydiving world is a small tight community, you guys should try to work this out so there is no grief on either side, it WILL pay off in the long run trust me! Cool


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Mar 7, 2012, 9:40 AM)


kdrivas1989  (Student)

Mar 7, 2012, 9:50 AM
Post #39 of 80 (1842 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Just waiting for her to reply to my email


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 7, 2012, 10:02 AM
Post #40 of 80 (1827 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just waiting for her to reply to my email

Or ~ ya could let the OP contact her via telephone, it's done all the time I'm told! Wink


kdrivas1989  (Student)

Mar 7, 2012, 10:03 AM
Post #41 of 80 (1829 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Just waiting for her to reply to my email

Or ~ ya could let the OP contact her via telephone, it's done all the time I'm told! Wink

What's the OP


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Mar 7, 2012, 10:11 AM
Post #42 of 80 (1819 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there any particular reason you have removed you profile information from here and other web sites? Going stealth doesn’t help your credibility.

Sparky


dragon2  (D 101989)

Mar 7, 2012, 10:18 AM
Post #43 of 80 (1809 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

What's the OP

Original Poster (the person who starts a forum thread)


kdrivas1989  (Student)

Mar 7, 2012, 10:21 AM
Post #44 of 80 (1802 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is there any particular reason you have removed you profile information from here and other web sites? Going stealth doesn’t help your credibility.

Sparky

Yes she is bad mouthing my name for something that isn't true, why wouldn't I change it?


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 7, 2012, 10:23 AM
Post #45 of 80 (1799 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Just waiting for her to reply to my email

Or ~ ya could let the OP contact her via telephone, it's done all the time I'm told! Wink

What's the OP

The 'Original Poster'...the ex-military rigger who understands UV degradation and how to prevent it, they person you sold the canopy to who is claiming they kept in the box in a dark temperature controlled environment. Angelic

Why not give the OP the rigger's contact information and let that person follow up?


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Mar 7, 2012, 10:24 AM)


nolan358  (Student)

Mar 7, 2012, 10:38 AM
Post #46 of 80 (1783 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't change it because hopefully your home drop zone is filled with friends and people who know you that would stand up for you as being an honest reliable stand up guy. Removing your info appears like you have something to hide rather than dealing with the issue.

just my .02

edited to correct some of my terrible spelling mistakes


(This post was edited by nolan358 on Mar 7, 2012, 10:40 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 7, 2012, 10:46 AM
Post #47 of 80 (1769 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Is there any particular reason you have removed you profile information from here and other web sites? Going stealth doesn’t help your credibility.

Sparky

Yes she is bad mouthing my name for something that isn't true, why wouldn't I change it?


Ron

Mar 7, 2012, 11:07 AM
Post #48 of 80 (1751 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well, where is Kevin?

Seems he has posted here. But I'll be honest, if you had started a thread about me and started bashing me... I doubt I'd respond to you. Especially when some of the other posters are talking about a lynch mob.

But lets flip the situation.... Lets say you sold the canopy to him. Then 5 weeks later he calls to tell you it is messed up and starts a thread on here bashing him.

And after 5 weeks you already used that money to buy a new canopy. Would you be in a hurry to try and defend yourself against an online lynch mob?

Quote:
Fraud is fraud and personally knowing that I had nothing to do with the condition of this canopy is good enough reason to persue by any means to get a refund

And you should be smart enough to know that after 5 weeks your position is nowhere as strong as if you had brought it up in 5 hours.

No one is saying that you should not try.... Just that after waiting 5 weeks your position is weaker than if you had acted faster. If you had posted "I took it home and looked at it and saw a weird discoloration and I called him".... Well, this whole issue might have been avoided because he might have then agreed to refund your money. And if he didn't, then it would be EASY to prove you had nothing to do with the damage.

As a final note to you on this topic..... Just because we are all "brothers and sisters" in the sky.... Does not mean that there are no crooks. People get all romantic thinking "a skydiver would never do that to another skydiver".... But that is just romantic bull shit. Brothers murder each other and skydiving is an activity that draws all types of people into it. But just like any other activity, you can't just go trusting everyone just because you think you share something "special"..... A felon can a drug addict can learn to jump out of a plane just as easily as Mother Superior.


Ron

Mar 7, 2012, 11:13 AM
Post #49 of 80 (1744 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Well......
There are three possible truths here:

1. You are trying to screw the buyer and knew your canopy had the damage.

2. They are trying to screw you.

3. Your idea of "Good condition" and theirs is not the same.

I'd bet my money on #3. The seller thinks the item is great and wants to get as much as he can, the buyer wants to think they got a good deal. This is a normal reaction and process.

The buyer in this case made a clear mistake by not inspecting the canopy as soon as they got it. You BOTH made a mistake by not using a broker.

So, what are you going to offer to make the buyer happy?


faulk04  (D 32457)

Mar 7, 2012, 11:20 AM
Post #50 of 80 (1737 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

out of curiosity how many pictures did you get or ask for before you bought the canopy?


tmccann  (A 61009)

Mar 7, 2012, 11:29 AM
Post #51 of 80 (1646 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Is there any particular reason you have removed you profile information from here and other web sites? Going stealth doesn’t help your credibility.

Sparky

Yes she is bad mouthing my name for something that isn't true, why wouldn't I change it?

If it isn't true, what do you have to worry about? Pulling your info makes you look like you have something to hide.

Your reputation isn't something you take out of your trophy room every once and a while, polish up, and show off. You carry it with you every day, and it'll serve you as well as you serve it...

Nobody has a dog in this fight but the two of y'all. Everyone is just giving you both the benefit of their outside viewpoint.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 7, 2012, 1:50 PM
Post #52 of 80 (1587 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

>At first when removing it from the box it looked nice but upon spreading the canopy
>out it was very visable that the top skin had a stain or UV damage going from the
>2nd cell to the center cell.

Has the discoloration affected the porosity or strength of the fabric?


43_echo

Mar 7, 2012, 3:32 PM
Post #53 of 80 (1545 views)
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Re: [faulk04] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

No Pictures......except for the original photo on the ad. BTW, I am a he not a she.

Kevin resumed contact with me through email. So far he told me he contacted PD and wants me to send the canopy to them to have them check it out.

Strangely enough, I came into work this morning with the boxed canopy and was about to do the same thing. I plan on sending it down there tomorrow.
Jude


43_echo

Mar 7, 2012, 3:36 PM
Post #54 of 80 (1541 views)
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Re: [kdrivas1989] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Is there any particular reason you have removed you profile information from here and other web sites? Going stealth doesn’t help your credibility.

Sparky

Yes she is bad mouthing my name for something that isn't true, why wouldn't I change it?

Kevin, I started this post after I contacted you and you balked at the idea that you sent it to me that way. Your info was already gone from here. That is why I decided to post to warn others about not brokering deals.

I did make a copy of it (your registration info) on January 20, 2012 after I sent you the money.


(This post was edited by 43_echo on Mar 7, 2012, 3:37 PM)


43_echo

Mar 7, 2012, 3:39 PM
Post #55 of 80 (1536 views)
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Re: [billvon] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

It would have to be tested. I plan on sending it to PD.


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Mar 7, 2012, 7:53 PM
Post #56 of 80 (1471 views)
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Re: [Ron] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Seems he has posted here. But I'll be honest, if you had started a thread about me and started bashing me... I doubt I'd respond to you. Especially when some of the other posters are talking about a lynch mob.

I would think if someone attacked your integrity Ron you wouldn't need to say much as lots of folks would be defending you even folks that disagree with you.
I personally would never ever have let something like this get out of hand. My word is the only thing I truly own in this word and is most valuable asset no way would I let something like this have people questioning it.
P.S. I don't send anything without payment or to a broker. My word and reputation should be enough not because I'm special but because I can easily be vetted. I also wouldn't buy from someone that couldn't be vetted and am happy to pay more from someone I know then save a buck gambling on the unknown.


DiverMike  (C 40024)

Mar 8, 2012, 5:29 AM
Post #57 of 80 (1416 views)
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Re: [catfishhunter] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

I do wonder how often people get ripped off. I don't think it is really that often. I have purchased basically everything I have on DZ.com from at least a half dozen sellers and everything has worked out well. For major purchases, I asked more questions and requested references from a DZO or S&TA at the seller's dropzone.

I guess I have been lucky counting on the honesty of strangers.


43_echo

Mar 8, 2012, 6:55 AM
Post #58 of 80 (1376 views)
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Re: [DiverMike] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Well here goes $90.00 more into this for shipping fees. Off to PD.


(This post was edited by 43_echo on Mar 8, 2012, 6:57 AM)
Attachments: canopy2.jpg (120 KB)


skydiveaddict  (C 35615)

Mar 8, 2012, 6:56 AM
Post #59 of 80 (1373 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

I am one of the riggers who has worked on Kevin's gear. If the OP would like to have a discussion he/she can pm me.


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Mar 8, 2012, 7:37 AM
Post #60 of 80 (1350 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well here goes $90.00 more into this for shipping fees. Off to PD.

Why ship using next day air for 90 bucks when ground would get it there in 2-3 days for under $30 ?

Not to mention that gettting it there on Friday wont really do anything different than getting it there on Monday as PD closes at noon on Fridays.


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 8, 2012, 7:52 AM
Post #61 of 80 (1340 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Well here goes $90.00 more into this for shipping fees. Off to PD.

Why ship using next day air for 90 bucks when ground would get it there in 2-3 days for under $30 ?

Not to mention that getting it there on Friday wont really do anything different than getting it there on Monday as PD closes at noon on Fridays.


Next day air is damn pricey! Shocked


I send EVERYTHING by Ox-Cart-Express, I gotta whole lot more time than money! Sly


Premier Remster  (C License)

Mar 8, 2012, 8:16 AM
Post #62 of 80 (1321 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Well here goes $90.00 more into this for shipping fees. Off to PD.

Why ship using next day air for 90 bucks when ground would get it there in 2-3 days for under $30 ?

Not to mention that getting it there on Friday wont really do anything different than getting it there on Monday as PD closes at noon on Fridays.


Next day air is damn pricey! Shocked


I send EVERYTHING by Ox-Cart-Express, I gotta whole lot more time than money! Sly

Wow... Considering how old you are, you must be living in the poor-house... Unimpressed

Do you at least use corrugated cardboard boxes when you set up your new pad?

Wink


43_echo

Mar 8, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #63 of 80 (1316 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

likestojump, thank you for the heads-up on that they (PD) close at noon Friday's. I switched the tag for 2nd day air which saved me almost half!


faulk04  (D 32457)

Mar 8, 2012, 9:12 AM
Post #64 of 80 (1289 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No Pictures......except for the original photo on the ad. BTW, I am a he not a she.


Out of curiosity why didn't you ask for more photos? When I buy something off DZ.com I ask for tons of pictures plus random ones


(This post was edited by faulk04 on Mar 8, 2012, 9:13 AM)


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Mar 8, 2012, 10:44 AM
Post #65 of 80 (1248 views)
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Re: [skydiveaddict] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am one of the riggers who has worked on Kevin's gear. If the OP would like to have a discussion he/she can pm me.

So did he chop and lose the canopy in the trees for a couple of weeks?


Ron

Mar 8, 2012, 12:21 PM
Post #66 of 80 (1191 views)
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Re: [catfishhunter] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I would think if someone attacked your integrity Ron you wouldn't need to say much as lots of folks would be defending you even folks that disagree with you.

Maybe, and I would hope so... But I have what 10k+ posts and have been around 18+ years, worked at 6+ DZ's...Etc.

But when faced with a controversy you have two real public options:

1. Say nothing.
2. Take positive action like Tylenol did during the 1982 murders.

#2 is easy if you have the funds and KNOW you are wrong (or will be seen as wrong). In this case I can see how the guy is not 100% sure he is guilty and he spent the money already. That makes #2 difficult.

If I were him, I'd offer a refund minus shipping costs, or offer the 600 bucks back. But I can write a check for it and I am betting he can't.


43_echo

Mar 8, 2012, 12:35 PM
Post #67 of 80 (1181 views)
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Re: [Ron] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

I have received emails from Kevin. He told me he called PD and they told him the usual fee of $25.00 for inspection and then possibly an additional fee of $25.00 for futher testing should the canopy need it. I have it packaged and is ready to ship today.

I am hoping once PD gives their recommendations we can agree and more on. I am also asking what they would value this as being sold as is to see what they say.


JanuszPS  (D 568)

Mar 8, 2012, 1:56 PM
Post #68 of 80 (1135 views)
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Re: [faulk04] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Out of curiosity, do you get what you ask for?

I also ask and very often what is get is couple of bad quality camcorder made screen shots.

For whatever reason, very often sellers don't send pictures...

It's not an excuse, but a reason of not getting valid information and big disappointment while opening a box.

In terms of the buyer, in my opinion it doesn't really matter if the canopy waited a month for inspection. Is winter, most likely canopy wouldn't be jumped in that time, so there wouldn't be any valid reason for "exposing" the canopy to any damaging environment (in common sense).

I also agree that in this case there is a difference in definition/understanding of "good condition".

j.


kallend  (D 23151)

Mar 8, 2012, 2:21 PM
Post #69 of 80 (1119 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

I've bought 2 canopies through DZ.COM. In each case I asked someone I knew at the seller's DZ for a reference, and the seller agreed that the third party could hold my check until the canopy arrived. In each case what I got was exactly what the seller had described, and we were both happy with the outcome.


faulk04  (D 32457)

Mar 8, 2012, 2:49 PM
Post #70 of 80 (1104 views)
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Re: [JanuszPS] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Out of curiosity, do you get what you ask for?

I also ask and very often what is get is couple of bad quality camcorder made screen shots.

For whatever reason, very often sellers don't send pictures...




j.

Most people send what I ask. If they aren't good I'll ask for more. If they don't want to provide them, I'll buy from someone else.


43_echo

Mar 8, 2012, 3:25 PM
Post #71 of 80 (1086 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have received emails from Kevin. He told me he called PD and they told him the usual fee of $25.00 for inspection and then possibly an additional fee of $25.00 for futher testing should the canopy need it. I have it packaged and is ready to ship today.

I am hoping once PD gives their recommendations we can agree and more* on. I am also asking what they would value this as being sold as is to see what they say.

*move on.


Ron

Mar 20, 2012, 7:27 AM
Post #72 of 80 (897 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Any satisfactory conclusion to this?


43_echo

Mar 20, 2012, 4:51 PM
Post #73 of 80 (820 views)
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Re: [Ron] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I thought there would be......Kevin emailed me that he didn't have the money to give me a refund. He called PD and then emailed me to send the canopy there and have it checked out by them. He said he would work with me on a fair conclusion to this transaction.

Turns out that the canopy had fading but not any real damage. That was the good news.....bad news is that the trim is out little over 3 inches and needs a reline. It also has some puncture holes somewhere on the tail but PD said there would not warrant a repair yet.

I am now asking that he pay me $310.00 and we call it even although I made a seriously bad mistake here and could have had a new canopy for the money spent. If I was told it needed a reline I know I would never have paid $1,600.00 for it and passed.

PD is relining the canopy for me.

I emailed him and am still waiting for a reply. Keeping my fingers crossed..................


(This post was edited by 43_echo on Mar 20, 2012, 4:52 PM)


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Mar 20, 2012, 4:53 PM
Post #74 of 80 (815 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

3" out of trim and needing a reline surely does not sound like the claimed 200 jumps ..

sounds like you should have gotten a gallon jug of KY with your purchase :(


PiLFy  (A License)

Mar 20, 2012, 5:25 PM
Post #75 of 80 (795 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

It needs a reline after only his claimed 200 jumps? There are punctures in the skin? This, in addition to the UV damage? I'd stick w/the $600 demand. TBH, I still wouldn't want it.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 20, 2012, 7:37 PM
Post #76 of 80 (359 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I am now asking that he pay me $310.00 and we call it even

In the OP, you wrote that the ad said '200 jumps, I bought the canopy new'. Given what PD is reporting, there's no way it has 200 jumps.

I would stick to your original request of a bigger refund, even if he has to make payments. He says he bought it new? Ask for the name of the dealer he got it from to prove it. I don't think he can because there's no way he did. Better yet, ask PD which dealer sold the canopy originally and when, bet it doesn't match the sellers story.

Imagine what would happen to PD if canopies went that far out of trim in 200 jumps. Nobody would ever buy their stuff because they couldn't afford to keep them in trim, and the service dept would be backed up for over a year.


ShcShc11  (A 15638)

Mar 20, 2012, 9:16 PM
Post #77 of 80 (326 views)
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Re: [43_echo] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well, I thought there would be......Kevin emailed me that he didn't have the money to give me a refund. He called PD and then emailed me to send the canopy there and have it checked out by them. He said he would work with me on a fair conclusion to this transaction.

Turns out that the canopy had fading but not any real damage. That was the good news.....bad news is that the trim is out little over 3 inches and needs a reline. It also has some puncture holes somewhere on the tail but PD said there would not warrant a repair yet.

I am now asking that he pay me $310.00 and we call it even although I made a seriously bad mistake here and could have had a new canopy for the money spent. If I was told it needed a reline I know I would never have paid $1,600.00 for it and passed.

PD is relining the canopy for me.

I emailed him and am still waiting for a reply. Keeping my fingers crossed..................


eeee....ouch.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Mar 20, 2012, 10:14 PM
Post #78 of 80 (310 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
3" out of trim and needing a reline surely does not sound like the claimed 200 jumps ..

3" out of trim doesn't sound too out of line to me.

After 500 jumps on my Stiletto 120 the outer lines had shrunk 6" which was 4.5" more than the inner lines. A bigger canopy with longer lines would have had more shrinkage.

I couldn't speak to when PD considers a canopy out of trim enough that they'd want to correct it.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Mar 20, 2012, 10:16 PM)


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Mar 20, 2012, 10:32 PM
Post #79 of 80 (301 views)
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Re: [DrewEckhardt] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
3" out of trim and needing a reline surely does not sound like the claimed 200 jumps ..

3" out of trim doesn't sound too out of line to me.

After 500 jumps on my Stiletto 120 the outer lines had shrunk 6" which was 4.5" more than the inner lines. A bigger canopy with longer lines would have had more shrinkage.

I couldn't speak to when PD considers a canopy out of trim enough that they'd want to correct it.

let me rephrase using exact terms :

a canopy with 200 jumps should not need a reline
a canopy with 200 jumps should not be 3" out of trim


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 20, 2012, 10:43 PM
Post #80 of 80 (294 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Dropzone.com purchase (Caveat Emptor) [In reply to] Can't Post

>a canopy with 200 jumps should not be 3" out of trim

A large one might well be. We've seen much smaller Spectra-lined Sabre II's 8" out of trim with <1000 jumps on them. (Still being jumped happily by the owner BTW)



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