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Harness and bartack machine thoughts

 

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RoryJ  (D 28873)

Feb 5, 2012, 5:48 PM
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Harness and bartack machine thoughts Can't Post

It is time to break down and get a harness machine after getting my master ticket.

I have my eye on two different Singer 7-34s. I do not plan to be a full time harnessing man, but want to have it available. Does anyone have any thoughts of why it would be a bad machine to add to my arsenal or alternate machines that I should consider? I have read through and saw about Jerry's 132K6 and the Consew updates, but not sure if I feel like springing $7K right now.

And I am looking to update my Singer 69-8 to something programmable. I have been leaning toward a Juki 1900A HS, but also like how the Brother 430E worked, and considered waiting around for a 434 to be cool like PD.
Any users out there have particular favourites that they could say the Juki or the Brother is markedly better for one application or another? I will mainly be using it for installing line sets, possibly using it for container repairs, and if I ever get saucy enough for building line sets.

Used search for both, but seeing if what current thoughts are on all these.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Feb 5, 2012, 7:10 PM
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Re: [RoryJ] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Rory,

Quote:
about Jerry's 132K6

About 6-7 yrs ago, this guy had them for $1200:

Sewing Machine Sales Co.
7922 Hill Avenue
P. O. Box 544
Holland, OH 43529

419-866-5558
800-449-0835

JerryBaumchen

PS) I've recently been PM'ing Rob Cooper ( on here as: cooperf1 ) as he seems to be buying a 132K6 machine. You might aalso consider checking with him about them.


parachutist  (D 25468)

Feb 6, 2012, 1:00 AM
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Re: [RoryJ] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

 
About 9 months ago I bought a 1900AHS. I'm happy with the Juki because it was easy to get skydiving-specific patterns on a memory chip (from Skyworks), plug those into the machine and I was off and running. It's been very hassle-free so far, after recovery from Juki sticker shock of course. I don't have any experience with the Brother for comparison.

Chris


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Feb 6, 2012, 4:33 AM
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Re: [RoryJ] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I have my eye on two different Singer 7-34s. I do not plan to be a full time harnessing man, but want to have it available. Does anyone have any thoughts of why it would be a bad machine to add to my arsenal or alternate machines that I should consider? I have read through and saw about Jerry's 132K6 and the Consew updates, but not sure if I feel like springing $7K right now.

Rory,
The 132K is an OK machine IF you are working on a H/C that has the minimal amount of webbing.

In other words, if you get a modern day H/C that has plastic stifferners and multiple layers of webbing, the 132k probably is not the machine to use. it simply will struggle to pull the bobbin thread up properly. The reason is mostly the smaller presser bar spring.

I owned a Consew SK-6 which is a exact copy of the 132K and the above is what I found to be true.

For the small price differental of the class 7 machines over the 132K, I would take the hit, buy a 7 class and never have to worry if the job is too big or not.

With regards to bartackers, Juki is the way to go.

I have owned both Brother and Juki and the Juki wins hands down .

The Juki knife system works better, programming is way easier, basically no maintenance to speak of, and the machine just runs smoother than the Brother.

The 434 is Brother's move to get closer to the Juki design.

The reason that most factories used Brother tackers in the first place was that they had a large bobbin and Juki had a standard size.

Now Juki has an option for installing a large hook and bobbing case for about $300 more.
Now you can get the best of both worlds!

If you need more info on these, feel free to contact me.

Cheers,
MEL


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Feb 6, 2012, 4:45 AM
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Re: [parachutist] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
.....I'm happy with the Juki because it was easy to get skydiving-specific patterns on a memory chip ......
Quote:

Chris,
We have some updates coming with added programs, a complete PDF with photos, and descriptions of all of the tacks used on different canopies.

It should be complete in about two weeks.

Cheers,
MEL


WGore  (D 3379)

Feb 7, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Re: [RoryJ] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

  I had a 7-34 when I was building gear and the only downside to it is that it has the small bobbin. For what you are going to do with it the standard should work just fine.


RoryJ  (D 28873)

Feb 7, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Re: [WGore] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

And I just found three 7-34s for $4,400 with table and motor, fully refurbed and a Consew 733R2 for 5K a few miles away from me.

And a Juki 1900 for $1000 off. And a heavier duty Juki for a reasonable price. This stuff is maddening.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 8, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Re: [RoryJ] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Moderators, please split this into two separate threads: the first thread about bar-tackers, and the second thread about harness machines.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Feb 8, 2012, 1:11 PM
Post #9 of 32 (2574 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Rob, there really is no way to cleanly do that.

I am looking forward to seeing bartack options...


dpreguy  (D 835)

Feb 9, 2012, 8:47 AM
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Re: [RoryJ] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Thee are several models (cams = stictch length, etc)of the 69-8's but if it is the right one (correct cam) I may know someone who wiould buy your 69-8.


SpeedPhreak  (D 24050)

Feb 23, 2012, 2:00 PM
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Re: [masterrigger1] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
.....I'm happy with the Juki because it was easy to get skydiving-specific patterns on a memory chip ......
Quote:

Chris,
We have some updates coming with added programs, a complete PDF with photos, and descriptions of all of the tacks used on different canopies.

It should be complete in about two weeks.

Cheers,
MEL

Hey Mark;

What is the status on this? I would be very interested in this data/info...


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Feb 23, 2012, 2:08 PM
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Re: [SpeedPhreak] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


.....I'm happy with the Juki because it was easy to get skydiving-specific patterns on a memory chip ......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Chris,
We have some updates coming with added programs, a complete PDF with photos, and descriptions of all of the tacks used on different canopies.

It should be complete in about two weeks.

Cheers,
MEL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hey Mark;

What is the status on this? I would be very interested in this data/info...


Should be any day now for the EProms to come in from the manufacturer.

I just added a Box "X" and also a 53 stitch double
throw pattern to the exsisting patterns.


BS,
MEL


SpeedPhreak  (D 24050)

Feb 23, 2012, 2:39 PM
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Re: [masterrigger1] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice.

I'm assuming the box x requires special clamp foot/feed plates? What working size?

They do it by eeprom? I just recently picked up the machine from government auction and I hadn't really looked into it (I had assumed SD card...). I don't have the optional IP-410 control panel.

What are you looking at as a price for these? PM me if you want.


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Feb 23, 2012, 4:27 PM
Post #14 of 32 (2375 views)
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Re: [SpeedPhreak] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm assuming the box x requires special clamp foot/feed plates? What working size?

Yep, just remove 1 screw for the feedplate and 1 screw for the clamp assembly and swap the clamp out in about 3-4 minutes.
We also have on the EProm a double 42 stitch center start - center stop bartack that places both tacks in the same clamping operation.

If you look at the Icarus tandem canopies you will see it on the line attachments,
It too uses a different clamp.

Lastly, all the other tacks can be run E-W or N-S.
Just need the standard E-W clamp or a N-S clamp.

Cheers,
MEL


parachutist  (D 25468)

Feb 24, 2012, 3:09 AM
Post #15 of 32 (2331 views)
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Re: [masterrigger1] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

 

MEL,

There's one pattern I'd like to have that I haven't seen yet. Precision uses it on their tandem reserves for tacking lines to the stabilizer. It looks like 2 patterns overlapping each other. Have you added that one to the chip by any chance?

thanks,
Chris


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Feb 24, 2012, 4:15 AM
Post #16 of 32 (2322 views)
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Re: [parachutist] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There's one pattern I'd like to have that I haven't seen yet. Precision uses it on their tandem reserves for tacking lines to the stabilizer. It looks like 2 patterns overlapping each other. Have you added that one to the chip by any chance?

Chris,
If it is on your EProm, it should show up as pattern #80.
It is a 84 stitch, CS-CS tack.

BS,
MEL


SpeedPhreak  (D 24050)

Mar 17, 2012, 10:18 AM
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Re: [masterrigger1] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Mark!

Any update on this? If you've got the new eprom's in shoot me some ordering information and I'll take one off your hands...

Thanks!


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 18, 2012, 12:46 AM
Post #18 of 32 (2162 views)
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Re: [dpreguy] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Thee are several models (cams = stictch length, etc)of the 69-8's but if it is the right one (correct cam) I may know someone who wiould buy your 69-8.

I've relined a canopy or two on a Cam-based Pfaff Bartack machine..As a matter of fact, Missouri Sew has about 3 of them in stock for about $1500. The big complaint I've head (folks, please help me if I'm off-base here) is the Cam-driven bartackers allow the cam (about a 9" Diameter disk plate) to take the bulk of operating wear, and being nearly impossible to replace. A good MR friend of mine has a contact for a machine shop in NYC that specialized in rebuilding/manufacturings cams for old bartacking machines, I think he paid just over $1100 for a new cam alone.


I've been practicing and practicing and practicing a decent 'immitation' bartack on my 20u's, and they just don't look *right*...I wouldn't do a main reline on that yet..Unsure


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Mar 18, 2012, 7:49 AM
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Re: [SpeedPhreak] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill,
I am currently away from the shop but they did come in just the other day.

As soon as I return, I will get back to you on this.


Cheers,
MEL


SpeedPhreak  (D 24050)

Mar 20, 2012, 5:04 AM
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Re: [masterrigger1] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

That's fine, there is no big rush.

I imagine that the market for this is pretty slim and that you are probably not stocking a hundred of them on your shelf so I wanted to make sure I got on whatever list there may (or may not) be... =;>

Thanks.


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Mar 20, 2012, 2:19 PM
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Re: [SpeedPhreak] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually the market is growing.

There are a few rig manufacturers and quite a few rigging shops world wide using the Juki 1900 , not to mention several machines in the military sector.

Cheers,
MEL


rustywimp

Apr 13, 2012, 10:39 PM
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Re: [parachutist] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been looking at Juki LK 1900A HS and Brother 430E lately. Does anyone have any experience with converting an industrial electronic bartacker to home use (using phase converter and transformer)? I'm told that it's not recommended because you'll lose the computer capabilities?


SpeedPhreak  (D 24050)

Apr 20, 2012, 4:18 PM
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Re: [rustywimp] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've been looking at Juki LK 1900A HS and Brother 430E lately. Does anyone have any experience with converting an industrial electronic bartacker to home use (using phase converter and transformer)? I'm told that it's not recommended because you'll lose the computer capabilities?

All of the ones I have seen are set up for 120v.


SpeedPhreak  (D 24050)

Apr 20, 2012, 4:22 PM
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Re: [SpeedPhreak] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is one up for auction in WA if anybody is interested:

Juki LK-1900A-HS

I got mine from government auction and it looks like new and runs great!


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Apr 20, 2012, 7:00 PM
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Re: [SpeedPhreak] Harness and bartack machine thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Phreak,

Quote:
I got mine from government auction and it looks like new and runs great!

However, this is listed as H7 which then says:

'Material which has been determined to be unserviceable and does not meet repair criteria; Type I shelf life material that has passed the expiration date, and Type II shelf life material that has passed the expiration date and cannot be extended. '

JerryBaumchen


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