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Reserve activation on the door

 

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pchapman  (D 1014)

Feb 1, 2012, 3:43 PM
Post #26 of 50 (2399 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

I certainly don't mind older gear... but it can take special attention. And, as with the link you kindly provided, newer gear isn't 'bombproof' either.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 1, 2012, 3:44 PM
Post #27 of 50 (2399 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

The first time I saw a tuck-in reserve flap was on a (Para-Flite) EOS container, circa 1990.
The second tuck-in flap was on a (Rigging Innovations) Flexon made in 1991.
Almost all of the other container manufacturers had adopted tuck-in reserve pin-covers by the turn of the century.


virgin-burner

Feb 1, 2012, 3:55 PM
Post #28 of 50 (2392 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
check the video from post # 13 Wink

ups! Angelic


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 1, 2012, 5:02 PM
Post #29 of 50 (2372 views)
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Re: [slingerapie] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad everything turned out well.

Major kudos to the BF for pushing you out. He did exactly the right thing at the right time.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Feb 1, 2012, 5:08 PM
Post #30 of 50 (2367 views)
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Re: [fcajump] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
~1995ish - Hartwood Harry brought a Twin-Bo back missing the right side horizontal stab when Burt "The Beech Killer" snagged his reserve handle on the front floater handle. (Handle was modified prior to the next flight.)

That sounds right.

Anybody got the picture? I know it was going around at some point, but haven't seen it in a while.

_Am


slingerapie  (B 113237)

Feb 2, 2012, 8:17 AM
Post #31 of 50 (2286 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Glad everything turned out well.

Major kudos to the BF for pushing you out. He did exactly the right thing at the right time.

Agreed!! I am certainly going to keep this one Wink

As for the gear: the Atom was if I remember correctly from '93.
Before this accident no problems, it was well maintained and updated. But, as pointed out, reserve flap not tucked in.
And, if we had taken more time to plan our exit, we might have stumbled upon the problem of me not reaching my BF's legs.

Since I never found my freebag, and the costs of a replacement would have exceeded the amount the rig was worth, I decided that it was time for newer gear :-)

(ofcourse 3 weeks after buying other gear a farmer brought the freebag in)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 2, 2012, 8:22 PM
Post #32 of 50 (2204 views)
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Re: [slingerapie] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
'... Since I never found my freebag, and the costs of a replacement would have exceeded the amount the rig was worth, I decided that it was time for newer gear :-)

(of course 3 weeks after buying other gear a farmer brought the freebag in)
"

.......................................................................

The last time some-one returned a tandem reserve pilot-chute and free-bag - that had been laying in the sun for three weeks - I cut out the spring and threw the rest in the garbage.

The DZO was "*&^%$#@!
But he was also smart enough to know that I would never put my signature on top of pilot-chute that was that badly faded.


airwolfe04  (D 13999)

Oct 2, 2012, 2:10 PM
Post #33 of 50 (2040 views)
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Re: [fcajump] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

Date was July 14, 1991. I was on the load w/Sean Matthis. We were going to do a 2-way, and were last out. Felt the TwinBo bump on jumprun, and Harry (pilot & DZO) started yelling for everyone to get out NOW! Saw Burt unconscious under his reserve as I exited. I was a little freaked, so Sean and I just blew off our 2-way. Not so w/the 5 or 6-way in front of us who were turning points below us! Landed ~6 miles off Hartwood. NTSB report below:


NTSB Identification: BFO91LA073.
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 44161.
Accident occurred Sunday, July 14, 1991 in HARTWOOD, VA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 05/05/1993
Aircraft: BEECH H50, registration: N171S
Injuries: 1 Minor,6 Uninjured.
AS THE FIRST PARACHUTIST WAS PREPARING TO JUMP FROM THE WING AT AN ALTITUDE OF 12,000 FEET, HIS RESERVE PARACHUTE RELEASE HANDLE BECAME ATTACHED TO SOME PART OF THE AIRPLANE. BEFORE HE COULD REACT, THE PARACHUTE OPENED AND PULLED HIM FROM THE WING. THE PARTIALLY DEPLOYED CHUTE WRAPPED AROUND THE RIGHT HORIZONTAL STABILIZER, SLAMMING HIM AGAINST THE AIRCRAFT. THE RIGHT STABILIZER BROKE AWAY AND THE JUMPER DESCENDED TO A SAFE LANDING UNDER THE DEPLOYED CANOPY. THE PILOT WAS ABLE TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF THE AIRCRAFT AND LAND WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

THE PARACHUTIST FAILURE TO PROPERLY MONITOR AND SECURE HIS RELEASE HANDLE TO PROTECT AGAINST ACCIDENTAL PARACHUTE DEPLOYMENT.
Index for Jul1991 | Index of months


fcajump  (D 15598)

Oct 2, 2012, 3:11 PM
Post #34 of 50 (2010 views)
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Re: [airwolfe04] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Date was July 14, 1991. I was on the load w/Sean Matthis....yelling for everyone to get out NOW!

I suspect that Harry's language was a bit more colorful than that Tongue

Glad everyone was OK...

JW


pontiacgtp00  (F 111)

Oct 2, 2012, 8:48 PM
Post #35 of 50 (1957 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Could have been worse...:
http://www.youtube.com/...yt-sIMym0&fmt=18

Full report of the fatality:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/...air200101903_001.pdf

Would not have happened on Vector 3:
http://www.dropzone.com/...lap%20design;#542700


I've looked for this video forever, no wonder I couldn't ever find it with a name like "naggas"


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 2, 2012, 9:45 PM
Post #36 of 50 (1949 views)
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Re: [pontiacgtp00] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Would not have happened on Vector 3:

The design prevents the cover flap from being pulled open. but things can still get ripped open if the entire flap gets snagged on the bottom edge.


NukeVagabond  (B License)

Oct 2, 2012, 11:53 PM
Post #37 of 50 (1933 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Glad everything turned out well.

Major kudos to the BF for pushing you out. He did exactly the right thing at the right time.

I'm glad everything turned out fine, and in no way am I trying to offend/attack anyone. This is for my edification, and hopefully other jumpers.

Is the right move really to kick out the jumper? Wouldn't it be more conservative and safer to pull them in while maintaining control of their pilot chute?

It seems her riding the plane down is much safer than risk the pilot chute wrapping around the tail. While the chance may be minimal the risk seems too great.

Is it him kicker her while holding her pilot chute, then releasing after she has cleared the door what makes it safe?


(This post was edited by NukeVagabond on Oct 2, 2012, 11:59 PM)


nigel99  (D 1)

Oct 3, 2012, 1:26 AM
Post #38 of 50 (1913 views)
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Re: [billvon] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>It happened during the late 1990s. Mickey Cottle told me about a skydiver who
>slammed his Reflex (Pop-Top) reserve pilot-chute against the top of the door frame,
>so many times and so hard that he cut the closing loop. The closing loop was
>slammed between the aluminum door frame and a steel grommet.

You sure that was a Reflex? Mick was on the King Air jump where we had a canopy deploy over the tail after the student slammed his Telesis into the top of the door frame so many times that he deployed the reserve. It would seem to be quite hard to do that on a Reflex unless you caught the poptop on the door and exited, thus overloading the closing loop.

But maybe there was another incident I didn't hear about.

Just to point out that on a 1 pin Teardrop, you can catch the pop-top on the door and strip the quick loop - you don't have to break the loop. I know this from personal experienceBlush


shorehambeach  (C License)

Oct 3, 2012, 6:04 AM
Post #39 of 50 (1859 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

OK... newbie piping into this thread here....so you've got your reserve wrapped around the tail of the plane. Not a nice thought.....

WTF do you do ?

Use your trusty knife to cut your lines til free and then pull your main ?

Frown






Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 4, 2012, 2:29 PM
Post #42 of 50 (1727 views)
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Re: [shorehambeach] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

>Use your trusty knife to cut your lines til free and then pull your main ?

If you are being towed behind the aircraft with the canopy completely collapsed? Do what you can to clear it using the lines and risers.

If the canopy is partially inflated and stuck and pulling the tail off the airplane? I'd get out the hookknife then use your main.

That being said I have only heard of one case, ever, where the second option was an option. Usually it is over so fast you don't know what happened.


pincheck  (C 105040)

Oct 4, 2012, 3:09 PM
Post #43 of 50 (1718 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is it correct that the rig is an OLD Atom?

I thought newer Atoms have a pin cover flap that tucks into the bottom flap -- a style that became common in the mid to late 1990's (on rigs in general) to reduce the snag hazard of the reserve top flap on may rigs.

But the video, e.g. at 35 or 43 sec, seems to show an "old style" pin cover flap, where the edge of the pin cover flap is completely exposed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That style is considered quite out of date nowadays when it comes to pin protection -- a type of rig where one has to be extra careful when moving around.


Even the tuck-in style flaps can have problems I guess? I bet a hard push against the rig & upwards on such a pin cover flap can shift it upwards and take the pin with it. Anyone have examples of such rigs having pins popped??

Yeh looks like while setting up the Jumper moved to get head out the door while then moving back and up. At 40-42 secs jumper caught the flap and probably pushed the pin out and so released the pilotchute all in one motion very lucky


shorehambeach  (C License)

Oct 5, 2012, 2:08 AM
Post #44 of 50 (1671 views)
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Re: [billvon] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Billvon...just stored that in the 'just in case' part of my brain.


jonathan.newman  (D 30644)

Oct 7, 2012, 3:58 PM
Post #45 of 50 (1600 views)
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Re: [billvon] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It would seem to be quite hard to do that on a Reflex unless you caught the poptop on the door and exited, thus overloading the closing loop.

I believe RiggerRob is saying just that here:

Quote:
The closing loop was slammed between the aluminum door frame and a steel grommet.
This similar to the trick of cutting rope with a (smooth-faced) hammer and an anvil (smooth). Any time a cord/rope/etc. is tensioned, it is very easy to cut with blunt tools.

The closing loop on a reflex runs over (half) the fiberglass poptop and then through a grommet and down into the rig. Rob's point is that if you hit this part of the loop enough times with even a blunt piece of metal, it will wear on the closing loop.


JohnnyBoulder

Nov 30, 2013, 7:44 PM
Post #46 of 50 (1251 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

sundevil777 wrote:
In reply to:
Would not have happened on Vector 3:

The design prevents the cover flap from being pulled open. but things can still get ripped open if the entire flap gets snagged on the bottom edge.

Newbie question here ... I am going to order a Javelin and curious how the Javelin compares to the Vector. Thanks.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Dec 1, 2013, 5:01 AM
Post #47 of 50 (1191 views)
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Re: [JohnnyBoulder] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnnyBoulder wrote:
Newbie question here ... I am going to order a Javelin and curious how the Javelin compares to the Vector. Thanks.

Well, this fatal accident happened on Javelin, and would not have happened on Vector 3...:

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4267089#4267089


(This post was edited by skydiverek on Dec 1, 2013, 5:02 AM)


flygirl1220  (Student)

Dec 1, 2013, 12:18 PM
Post #48 of 50 (1036 views)
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Re: [Skyper] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

http://youtu.be/64EvXDAQGHU?t=1m45s

Here is a reserve activation on the door from a Cessna.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Dec 6, 2013, 7:32 PM
Post #49 of 50 (837 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

Deyan wrote:
In reply to:
Would not have happened on Vector 3 Racer


Fixed for you Wink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bv_NqiT7pM

I know he did not hit his reserve pin, but the title of this thread is : "reserve activation on the door' right?!

And I'm sure that someday somewhere somebody will find the way to jam his Racer poptop cap somewhere, break both loops and end up with an open reserve on the tail of the plane Crazy

......................................................................

There was a similar accident (circa 1980) when a guy snagged his Racer's reserve ripcord housing on the door handle of a Cessna. As he fell away from the airplane, he ripped the ripcord housing off his harness!
This was before it was fashionable to hide reserve ripcord housings inside the yoke.

But the moral of the story is: be careful out there, because - if you try hard enough - you can deploy any parachute by dragging it across a door-frame.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Dec 7, 2013, 6:04 AM
Post #50 of 50 (697 views)
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Re: [billvon] Reserve activation on the door [In reply to] Can't Post

billvon wrote:
>It happened during the late 1990s. Mickey Cottle told me about a skydiver who
>slammed his Reflex (Pop-Top) reserve pilot-chute against the top of the door frame,
>so many times and so hard that he cut the closing loop. The closing loop was
>slammed between the aluminum door frame and a steel grommet.

You sure that was a Reflex? Mick was on the King Air jump where we had a canopy deploy over the tail after the student slammed his Telesis into the top of the door frame so many times that he deployed the reserve. It would seem to be quite hard to do that on a Reflex unless you caught the poptop on the door and exited, thus overloading the closing loop.

But maybe there was another incident I didn't hear about.

I know this is an old thread that just got necromanced, but, that guy Rob/Mick mentioned may have been me! lol

It was in the UK, in 2001 or 2002 I think. And my Reflex poptop got jammed on top of the inside handle of door of a Caravan. 5 more divers behind me, and something had to go. The reserve opening was uneventful, and before I realize exactly what had happened, I had see the plane fly away, and everyone else dive by me.

The reserve pin was a bit bent. I lost my freebag. But I remember, it was the loop that let go.


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