Feb 1, 2012, 8:45 AM
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Re: [Skyper] Reserve activation on the door
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Aero wheels (called "Rhönrad" here - there's also a link to an English version) are really fun, but you gotta be careful when exiting, especially when doing it 4- or even 5-way. And, a well-protected reserve flap or, much better, a pop-top reserve, always is a good idea.
Feb 1, 2012, 9:06 AM
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Re: [Skyper] Reserve activation on the door
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Good thing she was pushed out! It could have been a major accident, as it is it was just a long canopy ride.
billvon (D 16479)
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Feb 1, 2012, 9:10 AM
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Re: [Skyper] Reserve activation on the door
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Happened to us at Brown Field. Almost tore the tail off our King Air; it's pretty amazing there weren't any major injuries. The pilots actually managed to land the plane after breaking the shear pin that connected the elevator on the damaged horizontal stab to the other elevator.
Feb 1, 2012, 12:16 PM
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Re: [Deyan] Reserve activation on the door
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what kind of rig is that ?
Atom
Indeed it is an Atom, thanx Deyan :-)
Since I am the girl in the video a short reply.
The plan was to do a wagonwheel exit with my boyfriend. (who is actually the one pushing me out of the plane) I couldn't reach his suit whilst standing in the door, and shuffled a bit backward. While doing that, my reserve flap got wedged in the door opening. (kind of "peelded" off) resulting in my reserve activation.
And yes I am forever grateful for my boyfriend, if it wasn't for his reaction of pushing me, I think me and the others in that plane could have been a lot worse. Grateful that it only cost me a long pretty long ride down (9000ft) and a new repack.
I know he did not hit his reserve pin, but the title of this thread is : "reserve activation on the door' right?!
And I'm sure that someday somewhere somebody will find the way to jam his Racer poptop cap somewhere, break both loops and end up with an open reserve on the tail of the plane
Feb 1, 2012, 1:02 PM
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Re: [AndyMan] Reserve activation on the door
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~1995ish - Hartwood Harry brought a Twin-Bo back missing the right side horizontal stab when Burt "The Beech Killer" snagged his reserve handle on the front floater handle. (Handle was modified prior to the next flight.)
Some one has already accidentally deployed a Pop-Top reserve.
This relates to Billvon's earlier post.
It happened during the late 1990s. Mickey Cottle told me about a skydiver who slammed his Reflex (Pop-Top) reserve pilot-chute against the top of the door frame, so many times and so hard that he cut the closing loop.
The closing loop was slammed between the aluminum door frame and a steel grommet. This similar to the trick of cutting rope with a (smooth-faced) hammer and an anvil (smooth). Any time a cord/rope/etc. is tensioned, it is very easy to cut with blunt tools.
Just proves that any reserve container can be accidentally deployed if you slam it against the door frame hard enough and often enough.
Feb 1, 2012, 1:51 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Reserve activation on the door
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I know a story for a guy who did this with his 1 pin Teardrop, that's why I said Racer poptop. My point was that unlike Reflex and Teradrop, Racer has a soft cap and 2 loops......and still they gonna find the way to f@$k it up
billvon (D 16479)
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Feb 1, 2012, 2:05 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Reserve activation on the door
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>It happened during the late 1990s. Mickey Cottle told me about a skydiver who >slammed his Reflex (Pop-Top) reserve pilot-chute against the top of the door frame, >so many times and so hard that he cut the closing loop. The closing loop was >slammed between the aluminum door frame and a steel grommet.
You sure that was a Reflex? Mick was on the King Air jump where we had a canopy deploy over the tail after the student slammed his Telesis into the top of the door frame so many times that he deployed the reserve. It would seem to be quite hard to do that on a Reflex unless you caught the poptop on the door and exited, thus overloading the closing loop.
But maybe there was another incident I didn't hear about.
Feb 1, 2012, 2:22 PM
Post #21 of 45
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Re: [skydiverek] Reserve activation on the door
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Would not have happened on Vector 3
anyone have the link to the video with the doorhandle snagging the reserve? freak-accidents probably occur with ANY rig if you look hard enough for them..
Feb 1, 2012, 2:47 PM
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Re: [slingerapie] Reserve activation on the door
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Is it correct that the rig is an OLD Atom?
I thought newer Atoms have a pin cover flap that tucks into the bottom flap -- a style that became common in the mid to late 1990's (on rigs in general) to reduce the snag hazard of the reserve top flap on may rigs.
But the video, e.g. at 35 or 43 sec, seems to show an "old style" pin cover flap, where the edge of the pin cover flap is completely exposed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That style is considered quite out of date nowadays when it comes to pin protection -- a type of rig where one has to be extra careful when moving around.
Even the tuck-in style flaps can have problems I guess? I bet a hard push against the rig & upwards on such a pin cover flap can shift it upwards and take the pin with it. Anyone have examples of such rigs having pins popped??
(This post was edited by pchapman on Feb 1, 2012, 2:48 PM)
Feb 1, 2012, 3:14 PM
Post #24 of 45
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Re: [pchapman] Reserve activation on the door
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Is it correct that the rig is an OLD Atom?
Correct
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That style is considered quite out of date nowadays when it comes to pin protection -- a type of rig where one has to be extra careful when moving around.
True! But not everyone can afford a new gear.
In reply to:
Even the tuck-in style flaps can have problems I guess? I bet a hard push against the rig & upwards on such a pin cover flap can shift it upwards and take the pin with it. Anyone have examples of such rigs having pins popped??
Feb 1, 2012, 3:41 PM
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Re: [billvon] Reserve activation on the door
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My memory may be vague.
The first accident - at Brown's Field - may have included a Student Telesis (made by Rigging Innovations), but I also remember Mickey telling me about a similar incident involving a Reflex. The Reflex accident may have occurred closer to 2000.
But the bottom line remains the same: slam any rig hard enough against a door frame and you can accidentally deploy the reserve.
Feb 1, 2012, 3:43 PM
Post #26 of 45
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Re: [Deyan] Reserve activation on the door
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I certainly don't mind older gear... but it can take special attention. And, as with the link you kindly provided, newer gear isn't 'bombproof' either.
Feb 1, 2012, 3:44 PM
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Re: [pchapman] Reserve activation on the door
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The first time I saw a tuck-in reserve flap was on a (Para-Flite) EOS container, circa 1990. The second tuck-in flap was on a (Rigging Innovations) Flexon made in 1991. Almost all of the other container manufacturers had adopted tuck-in reserve pin-covers by the turn of the century.
Feb 1, 2012, 5:08 PM
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Re: [fcajump] Reserve activation on the door
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~1995ish - Hartwood Harry brought a Twin-Bo back missing the right side horizontal stab when Burt "The Beech Killer" snagged his reserve handle on the front floater handle. (Handle was modified prior to the next flight.)
That sounds right.
Anybody got the picture? I know it was going around at some point, but haven't seen it in a while.
Feb 2, 2012, 8:17 AM
Post #31 of 45
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Re: [popsjumper] Reserve activation on the door
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Glad everything turned out well.
Major kudos to the BF for pushing you out. He did exactly the right thing at the right time.
Agreed!! I am certainly going to keep this one
As for the gear: the Atom was if I remember correctly from '93. Before this accident no problems, it was well maintained and updated. But, as pointed out, reserve flap not tucked in. And, if we had taken more time to plan our exit, we might have stumbled upon the problem of me not reaching my BF's legs.
Since I never found my freebag, and the costs of a replacement would have exceeded the amount the rig was worth, I decided that it was time for newer gear :-)
(ofcourse 3 weeks after buying other gear a farmer brought the freebag in)
Feb 2, 2012, 8:22 PM
Post #32 of 45
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Re: [slingerapie] Reserve activation on the door
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"
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'... Since I never found my freebag, and the costs of a replacement would have exceeded the amount the rig was worth, I decided that it was time for newer gear :-)
(of course 3 weeks after buying other gear a farmer brought the freebag in)
The last time some-one returned a tandem reserve pilot-chute and free-bag - that had been laying in the sun for three weeks - I cut out the spring and threw the rest in the garbage.
The DZO was "*&^%$#@! But he was also smart enough to know that I would never put my signature on top of pilot-chute that was that badly faded.
Oct 2, 2012, 2:10 PM
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Re: [fcajump] Reserve activation on the door
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Date was July 14, 1991. I was on the load w/Sean Matthis. We were going to do a 2-way, and were last out. Felt the TwinBo bump on jumprun, and Harry (pilot & DZO) started yelling for everyone to get out NOW! Saw Burt unconscious under his reserve as I exited. I was a little freaked, so Sean and I just blew off our 2-way. Not so w/the 5 or 6-way in front of us who were turning points below us! Landed ~6 miles off Hartwood. NTSB report below:
NTSB Identification: BFO91LA073. The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 44161. Accident occurred Sunday, July 14, 1991 in HARTWOOD, VA Probable Cause Approval Date: 05/05/1993 Aircraft: BEECH H50, registration: N171S Injuries: 1 Minor,6 Uninjured. AS THE FIRST PARACHUTIST WAS PREPARING TO JUMP FROM THE WING AT AN ALTITUDE OF 12,000 FEET, HIS RESERVE PARACHUTE RELEASE HANDLE BECAME ATTACHED TO SOME PART OF THE AIRPLANE. BEFORE HE COULD REACT, THE PARACHUTE OPENED AND PULLED HIM FROM THE WING. THE PARTIALLY DEPLOYED CHUTE WRAPPED AROUND THE RIGHT HORIZONTAL STABILIZER, SLAMMING HIM AGAINST THE AIRCRAFT. THE RIGHT STABILIZER BROKE AWAY AND THE JUMPER DESCENDED TO A SAFE LANDING UNDER THE DEPLOYED CANOPY. THE PILOT WAS ABLE TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF THE AIRCRAFT AND LAND WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
THE PARACHUTIST FAILURE TO PROPERLY MONITOR AND SECURE HIS RELEASE HANDLE TO PROTECT AGAINST ACCIDENTAL PARACHUTE DEPLOYMENT. Index for Jul1991 | Index of months
Oct 2, 2012, 11:53 PM
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Re: [popsjumper] Reserve activation on the door
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Glad everything turned out well.
Major kudos to the BF for pushing you out. He did exactly the right thing at the right time.
I'm glad everything turned out fine, and in no way am I trying to offend/attack anyone. This is for my edification, and hopefully other jumpers.
Is the right move really to kick out the jumper? Wouldn't it be more conservative and safer to pull them in while maintaining control of their pilot chute?
It seems her riding the plane down is much safer than risk the pilot chute wrapping around the tail. While the chance may be minimal the risk seems too great.
Is it him kicker her while holding her pilot chute, then releasing after she has cleared the door what makes it safe?
(This post was edited by NukeVagabond on Oct 2, 2012, 11:59 PM)
Oct 3, 2012, 1:26 AM
Post #38 of 45
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Re: [billvon] Reserve activation on the door
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>It happened during the late 1990s. Mickey Cottle told me about a skydiver who >slammed his Reflex (Pop-Top) reserve pilot-chute against the top of the door frame, >so many times and so hard that he cut the closing loop. The closing loop was >slammed between the aluminum door frame and a steel grommet.
You sure that was a Reflex? Mick was on the King Air jump where we had a canopy deploy over the tail after the student slammed his Telesis into the top of the door frame so many times that he deployed the reserve. It would seem to be quite hard to do that on a Reflex unless you caught the poptop on the door and exited, thus overloading the closing loop.
But maybe there was another incident I didn't hear about.
Just to point out that on a 1 pin Teardrop, you can catch the pop-top on the door and strip the quick loop - you don't have to break the loop. I know this from personal experience
Oct 4, 2012, 3:09 PM
Post #43 of 45
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Re: [pchapman] Reserve activation on the door
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Is it correct that the rig is an OLD Atom?
I thought newer Atoms have a pin cover flap that tucks into the bottom flap -- a style that became common in the mid to late 1990's (on rigs in general) to reduce the snag hazard of the reserve top flap on may rigs.
But the video, e.g. at 35 or 43 sec, seems to show an "old style" pin cover flap, where the edge of the pin cover flap is completely exposed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That style is considered quite out of date nowadays when it comes to pin protection -- a type of rig where one has to be extra careful when moving around.
Even the tuck-in style flaps can have problems I guess? I bet a hard push against the rig & upwards on such a pin cover flap can shift it upwards and take the pin with it. Anyone have examples of such rigs having pins popped??
Yeh looks like while setting up the Jumper moved to get head out the door while then moving back and up. At 40-42 secs jumper caught the flap and probably pushed the pin out and so released the pilotchute all in one motion very lucky
Oct 7, 2012, 3:58 PM
Post #45 of 45
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Re: [billvon] Reserve activation on the door
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Quote:
It would seem to be quite hard to do that on a Reflex unless you caught the poptop on the door and exited, thus overloading the closing loop.
I believe RiggerRob is saying just that here:
Quote:
The closing loop was slammed between the aluminum door frame and a steel grommet. This similar to the trick of cutting rope with a (smooth-faced) hammer and an anvil (smooth). Any time a cord/rope/etc. is tensioned, it is very easy to cut with blunt tools.
The closing loop on a reflex runs over (half) the fiberglass poptop and then through a grommet and down into the rig. Rob's point is that if you hit this part of the loop enough times with even a blunt piece of metal, it will wear on the closing loop.
wow.... 
